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Canned Bovines posted:SRM spam can be pretty unfun from how long it takes to do all of the cluster and hit location rolls. I swear everyone brings the most generic lists of a heavy or two, two mediums, and a light. And they bump up the pilots to 3/4s so yeah your Orion costs as much as my assault mech. I usually go 4/5s and go heavy. Theyre painted as Lyran Guards as well. Recently it was Orion, Kintaro, demolisher, some light hovercraft, and an LRM carrier. versus 2 Banshees, a Longbow, and a Berserker. \/ Good points. Thanks Saint Celestine fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Feb 1, 2024 |
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Feb 1, 2024 07:25
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You might want to offer some sort of mirror match where players use the same list Or create a scenario in which all players use a provided list with two sides pre balanced against each other. Demo Team Agents would put those together if there are any in your area It's obvious you already figured out what's considered optimal play and optimal unit selection, now you need to help other folks do the same thing edit: why not handicap yourself with less BV on your list? See how far you can stretch your skill Sidesaddle Cavalry fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Feb 1, 2024 |
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Feb 1, 2024 10:16
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Wait C3 is considered by some to be cheesy? It costs a lot of BV and is trivial to counter with ECM under standard rules. TacOps ECCM helps a lot but if you can't use it, it could suddenly be a lot of BV down the drain. I've been experimenting with ways to make good use of C3 without spending a lot of BV. If you have OmniMechs for them to ride, the Kage Light Battle Armor C is one of the cheapest spotters there is. It doesn't have weapons other than AP and anti-mech attacks, but it has 3 jump, a Battle Armor C3S, and 1+6 Mimetic Armor. The Mimetic Armor in particular is nice because it doesn't count as moving the turn it unloads, so the Mimetic Armor gives it +3 to hit on top of terrain and the +1 for being BA when attacked by non-infantry units. Drop it off in woods and it will be a particularly difficult target. (By the way, passive gear like BC3 doesn't function while the unit is being carried, so you HAVE to unload it at some point.) The cheapest functional C3 network I've fielded is the Komodo KIM-3C with a Kage C. The total raw unit cost is 1504 BV and it costs 1654 BV while networked. The KIM-3C has 8 medium lasers so it's not exactly a killer sniper, but the C3 can still help quite a bit. Also, the KIM-3C has ECM of its own, so if the Kage remains right within the edge of the ECCM bubble you can protect the network from up to one enemy ECM while still getting short range at the maximum range of the medium lasers. In practice the positioning is actually kind of challenging, though, but it's barely any added cost so I thought it was worth it. C3 can also benefit from the Active Probe Targeting optional rules, which can transmit the -1 to shooting through or into woods over the network. So an ideal spotter isn't just cheap and fast, but also has an Active Probe. The Raptor D (490 BV) and Owens A (680 BV) are good candidates for that. Even better is if it also has ECM, such as the Hitman HM-2 (861 BV) and Owens F (933 BV). For praising Sainted Blake via the use of C3I, I like to use Malak Comminus (944 BV) but Nexus II NXS-2B (717 BV) looks interesting, though you have to plan ahead to turn off its Stealth Armor at the right time (personally I never felt like dealing with that and prefer OmniMechs for carrying BA.) Also, don't be afraid to have the C3M carrier also be the spotter if it's just a two-unit network. There are plenty of good snipers that only have a C3S unit, which means it's harder to do a two-unit network with a spotter, but there are some fast units with a C3M. I've used the Mongoose II MON-268 to good effect (it's nice that it has a BAP), but I wouldn't say no to the Scorpion SCP-12K and even Grand Dragon DRG-9KC. I've also had my eye on the Bishamon BSN-4K ever since I saw that wacky guy in TRO 3060 - I have a mini for it but after seeing how W I D E it is I haven't assembled it, so I'll probably just end up using a cardboard token for it. In my next game I'm trying out Naginata NG-C3Ar, Owens A, and Kage C as a network, which together costs 3150 BV. I'm bringing a Black Hawk-KU G which is probably one of the best way to bring Angel ECM to the field and a Firestarter U which is also probably the best Firestarter even though it's supposed to be for boarding warships in space. (I was thinking of using the Raptor D instead of the Owens A and taking some BA like a Tunnel Rat IV squad for smoke grenades and an IS Standard Baka squad for giving someone the Baka Blast, but I felt like maybe I wanted a slightly faster and more resilient spotter.) BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Feb 1, 2024 |
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Feb 1, 2024 11:57
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Saint Celestine posted:I swear everyone brings the most generic lists of a heavy or two, two mediums, and a light. And they bump up the pilots to 3/4s so yeah your Orion costs as much as my assault mech. That sounds like a fun matchup to me and I’d enjoy playing either side. Either could take the win depending on the objectives, strategic skill and of course the whims of the dice gods. However, you list seems a lot more straightforward to play. And vehicles in particular need to be played with a lot of care and consideration due to their fragile nature and less flexible battlefield roles. The Demolisher in particular is going to have big ol issues with just about any objective-based game where it’s not dug in and defending an area, and those AC20s are going to be wasted if their role is simply defending the single LRM carrier. That’ll be a good chunk of BV that’s not being delivered to the battle lines.
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Feb 1, 2024 12:22
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Just a sad head's up, but BattleTech community had two big deaths recently. Kelly Bonilla, one of the main developers of WizKids and the clix game, recently passed away from a long battle with cancer. Tony Rivera on facebook (Another big WizKids person) confirmed it. And Loren Coleman's middle child died yesterday from a hiking accident in Puerto Rico. CGL has asked people to not reach out at this time to Coleman. Pour one out for them both. Prayers for them and their families.
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Feb 1, 2024 13:20
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Crosspostingwelcome 2 Clown Town posted:Finished a squad of elementals that I will probably be using as either just battle armor or infantry since I don't play as the Clans.
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Feb 1, 2024 15:34
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BattleMaster posted:Wait C3 is considered by some to be cheesy? It costs a lot of BV and is trivial to counter with ECM under standard rules. TacOps ECCM helps a lot but if you can't use it, it could suddenly be a lot of BV down the drain. Name a piece of equipment in BattleTech that isn't an AC/5. Someone out there thinks it's cheesy. To include other literal actual Introtech equipment like Medium Lasers or PPCs. Atlas Hugged posted:I would say with friendly games, it's important to set tech level and era in addition to BV. If I take 5000BV of introductory 3025 mechs against 5000BV of advanced ilClan mechs, it's probably not going to be fair regardless of what the points say. Yeah a good 5K Introtech list is going to wipe the floor with 5K of advanced ilClan mechs, it'll be like 4v2. I know that you meant the opposite but in my experience the only time disparate eras cause a problem is when one player goes in expecting to run forward and then park at 3 hexes then roll dice until something lucky happens. It turns out the outcome there isn't actually different from having the same tech levels and doing the same thing.
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Feb 1, 2024 18:22
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BattleMaster posted:Wait C3 is considered by some to be cheesy? It costs a lot of BV and is trivial to counter with ECM under standard rules. TacOps ECCM helps a lot but if you can't use it, it could suddenly be a lot of BV down the drain. C3 when the opponent isn't prepared for it can be pretty brutal. That said, from the responses I've gathered, I think these 'cheesey" things are just localized to my local store and the people I've played against. They would cry if they had to face some of the crazy poo poo I've seen when playing strangers on megamek. C3 isn't that trivial to counter with ECM. The ECM bubble is 6. There are a lot of weapons whose short range is 7. A properly played spotter can be just out of range of your ECM bubble, and still provide the C3 network. Obviously you can run the ECM up more to break the link, but that involves moving your ECM forward. I really like using the Sprint C3 spotter. Its a VTOL that moves 13/20, and amazingly cheap. C3 does NOT need LOS, so I use it to hide behind hills, trees, in bad arcs, and to use the high TMM to keep it alive. The huge movement lets it get to good positions. With no vehicles, the Spider and Ostscout are great for this, as they can jump 8. I think my favorite C3 master is the Challenger MBT. C3M and two gauss rifles. You need a distraction carnifex with this though, i.e. something much scarier closer in so they cant afford to shoot your challenger. MRMs are also fun with C3. With C3 I prefer going big or not at all. I don't think its worth using C3s on units with medium lasers or lighter units. Take advantage of that range benefit and bring big high damage weapons to use it with. Things that will open up holes so that your striker units can get in and take advantage of. Gausses/Heavy PPCs/AC10s/AC20s. etc. Just my playstyle/opinion with C3 though. Saint Celestine fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Feb 1, 2024 |
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Feb 1, 2024 19:00
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What does c3 do
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Feb 1, 2024 19:04
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ilmucche posted:What does c3 do For the most basic C3 network, not improved, boosted, etc., you build a network with a master unit, and 3 slave units. Any unit in the connected network can use the closest networked unit's range to calculate firing. I.e. If I have a stationary 4 gunnery skill C3 Master equipped unit at 20 hexes away within LOS with no intervening terrain, but a Sprint VTOL next to a stationary enemy Atlas, The C3 master's hit is 4 instead of 8, because it can use the Sprint's distance, which is short range. Any units slaved to the master also benefit from this. You have to pay additional BV cost for building a C3 network. The more you add to a network, the more each unit in the network's cost rises. ECM bubbles break the network. the bubble just needs to intersect the line from the slave unit to the master. Saint Celestine fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Feb 1, 2024 |
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Feb 1, 2024 19:11
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ilmucche posted:What does c3 do
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Feb 1, 2024 19:13
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Likewise if you kill or jam the master the whole thing stops working.
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Feb 1, 2024 19:16
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That sounds crazy powerful
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Feb 1, 2024 19:20
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ilmucche posted:That sounds crazy powerful The stacking cost is also a major factor. IIRC it's 5% of the total network BV, added to each mech. That adds up pretty quick. I've only used C3 a couple times, to mixed results. Very effective when the stars align, but not too hard to negate.
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Feb 1, 2024 19:24
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That's where the cool little Capellan birb comes in.
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Feb 1, 2024 19:24
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That's why the BV of the network goes up by 5% times the number of networked units. A C3 lance is 20% more expensive, each, than the same units not networked. A full C3i network is +30%, a full company is +60%. The average C3 lance is going to be either really undergunned or really underarmored compared to a same BV lance that isn't C3, you don't get that capability for free. EDIT: What C3 does in practical in-game terms is its a win-more tool. If you're already better than your opponent, it magnifies that gap. If your opponent is better than you it's a push at best and a liability at worst.
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Feb 1, 2024 19:26
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Owlbear Camus posted:That's where the cool little Capellan birb comes in. Can't believe nobody's mentioned BattleMech Stealth Armor yet (yes I know the on-board ECM doesn't work when it's active)
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Feb 1, 2024 19:32
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:Can't believe nobody's mentioned BattleMech Stealth Armor yet (yes I know the on-board ECM doesn't work when it's active) It does if it's doubled-up, like an Angel ECM. Edit: Looks like I remembered incorrectly, or house-ruled this at some point. St. Celestine, it sounds like you have an opponent who doesn't recognize a lot of late-era 'Mechs and isn't a particularly good sport. Unfortunately, that means they're likely to talk poo poo about you to other members of the group when you're not around. Is there any chance you can arrange for a 3rd party observer or even a full GM during your games with this person? PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Feb 1, 2024 |
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Feb 1, 2024 19:49
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Nope, check Pg. 98 of TO:AR, Angel only has one simultaneous mode if one of the devices is Stealth Armor, and it's a stupid nonsensical mode in which there's an E*C*CM bubble but Stealth isn't working.
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Feb 1, 2024 19:57
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PoptartsNinja posted:It does if it's doubled-up, like an Angel ECM. Edit: Looks like I remembered incorrectly, or house-ruled this at some point. Thanks for the suggestion. I think its a lost cause at this point since the crowd already wasn't that big. Will just find somewhere else to play.
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Feb 1, 2024 21:18
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Strobe posted:That's why the BV of the network goes up by 5% times the number of networked units. A C3 lance is 20% more expensive, each, than the same units not networked. A full C3i network is +30%, a full company is +60%.
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Feb 2, 2024 01:11
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We've got a local guy who runs C3 networks a lot in events, and every single time, without fail, he'll cruise to wins in game 1 and game 2 against average skill level players with bad lists and then get absolutely loving demolished in game 3 by one of the two or three local players who are genuinely good at this and can build lists that are made up of good units that work well together. We have a tournament this weekend where I expect to see this happen for the fourth consecutive time.
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Feb 2, 2024 01:51
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I just took an Archangel Comminus linked to a Malak Comminus against my SO. I really lucksacked and blew off his Marauder's leg with the first volley of MRM 40s. I also landed two MRM 40 volleys on his LRM Partisan and the drat thing survived - it was immobilized and turret locked but it survived. I think in total it landed 5 volleys out of 7 before its rear armor was breached and the MRM ammo was hit. The pilot survived being knocked out but the unit was destroyed trying to get up (on a 7!) and all the damage went right into the CT. It's hardly my favorite Archangel - the Dominus is - but I can't say I was too disappointed. It certainly put out a lot of damage. And the Malak Comminus has never disappointed me as a spotter, but it really benefits from TacOps rules. Arquinsiel posted:Your edit is on-point here. I once had a guy on MegaMek claim he was "going easy on me" because I didn't have as much experience as him, then he pulled out a wobbie Celestial Level II fully C3i'd up against my ~3067 lance. He found himself being suddenly very sad when he ran his Malak right up into the middle of my lance only to realise my RVN-4L ruined the network. He didn't learn and kept trying to feed me a single mech at a time rather than using the number advantage to get better shots in. That seems like such a rookie mistake to make. Like even without ECCM rules, or ECM to use it with, you could at least try to focus fire the Raven down before moving in. And you don't even need to get that close to say get Heavy PPCs from Long to Medium range even if the ECM is still up. C3 isn't super easy to utilize but there are still best practices to try to follow!
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Feb 2, 2024 01:51
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Just to clarify my own understanding of how this works BV wise, the C3 and C3-slave that occupy critical slots in the mechs don't count towards the BV of the network until you explicitly create the network, at which point all mechs in the network have their BV boosted? So the only real downside to taking mechs with C3/slave and not networking them is the loss of critical slots that could be put to better use?
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Feb 2, 2024 01:55
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Atlas Hugged posted:Just to clarify my own understanding of how this works BV wise, the C3 and C3-slave that occupy critical slots in the mechs don't count towards the BV of the network until you explicitly create the network, at which point all mechs in the network have their BV boosted? So the only real downside to taking mechs with C3/slave and not networking them is the loss of critical slots that could be put to better use? Correct, you lose absolutely nothing by not networking them. Just note that the C3M has integrated TAG so a unit with it will gain BV if you have Semi-guided LRMs or anything else that works off of it. If you have a setup that uses the C3M in the spotting unit, and the network has an LRM user in it, you can greatly benefit from using direct-fire Semiguided LRMs! I tried it with a Mongoose II MON-268 and a Sunder X. Maybe a big pile of NLRM 5s isn't the most stunning set of weapons, but I had some killer to-hit numbers firing at effective short range, without the target's move mod, and -1 penalty from woods thanks to the Mongoose's BAP. By the way, depending on the era, the Firestarter Omni X and the Black Hawk-KU G are really good ways to get Angel ECM to protect the C3 network. They also both have Bloodhound probes for -1 woods penalty, and the Black Hawk-KU G also has TAG! They both have IS General and Mercenary availability. Because the Black Hawk KU-G is a late design, though, Word of Blake only gets the Firestarter. BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Feb 2, 2024 |
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Feb 2, 2024 01:57
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Atlas Hugged posted:Just to clarify my own understanding of how this works BV wise, the C3 and C3-slave that occupy critical slots in the mechs don't count towards the BV of the network until you explicitly create the network, at which point all mechs in the network have their BV boosted? So the only real downside to taking mechs with C3/slave and not networking them is the loss of critical slots that could be put to better use? This is 100% correct.
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Feb 2, 2024 02:02
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Strobe posted:We've got a local guy who runs C3 networks a lot in events, and every single time, without fail, he'll cruise to wins in game 1 and game 2 against average skill level players with bad lists and then get absolutely loving demolished in game 3 by one of the two or three local players who are genuinely good at this and can build lists that are made up of good units that work well together.  as my mechs slowly tore one Celestial apart at a time while the rest looked on sadly from long range.
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Feb 2, 2024 02:34
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I also build lists around whatever shiny new thing I just got, but again my primary opponent is in elementary school.
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Feb 2, 2024 02:46
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BattleMaster posted:
What are your C3 best practices ? Mine are pretty much keep the spotters alive and out of ECM bubbles, let the C3 damage dealers do their thing, and intercept stuff if they try to close on the master. I mostly run VTOLs and jump scouts as C3 slaves, trying to keep BV as low as possible. Sometimes in high BV games I run a brawler C3 slave. Saint Celestine fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Feb 2, 2024 |
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Feb 2, 2024 03:23
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Saint Celestine posted:What are your C3 best practices ? Mine are pretty much keep the spotters alive and out of ECM bubbles, let the C3 damage dealers do their thing, and intercept stuff if they try to close on the master. Probably nothing you haven't figured out already. The theory is easy, it's the practice that's hard. If you're using ECCM rules, note that you can negate the entire ECM bubble by covering the unit producing it with your ECCM. This means that a single-hex BA ECM set to ECCM mode can negate the whole field by occupying the same hex - and can swarm the target to prevent it from getting away. iNarc ECM pods can also be set to ECCM mode, which will negate the ECM of the target it's attached to. (ECM is nice to have for its normal uses and Ghost Targets even if your opponent doesn't have any ECM of their own, of course. The ECM Constable is particularly nice because it can carry smoke rounds and do two smoke clouds plus Ghost Targets in the same hex as your C3 sniper/missile boat/whatever. The ECM Kage and WoB Achileus are also good because they are cheap and have stealth armor on top of being relatively mobile.) I mentioned it earlier, but the Active Probe targeting rules are really nice to have given that it can transmit the bonus over the C3 network. If a member of the network has the target within range of its probe, other members of the network get the bonus of -1 to the penalty for shooting through or into woods - even if the probe user isn't the closest spotter. Also note that C3 does not need line of sight to spot. If your spotter is on the other side of a hill or LOS-blocking woods you will still get the benefit of it. So it's probably best to make sure the spotter is seen by as few enemies as possible so it survives longer. (Note that I just played a game of Megamek where it seems like this didn't happen correctly. Probably because it was semi-recent errata.) Another subtlety that I see some people get wrong is that you can shoot into ECM without losing the C3 effect. So if you can't use ECCM or just don't have any, you can play around the bubble somewhat. Of course, unless circumstances dictate otherwise, you should kill the ECM user as soon as possible.
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Feb 2, 2024 04:27
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Within the context of my local MM group that plays fixed BV, up to FCCW tech - What I found makes you a really strong player is picking only 3025/3050 era IS units vs the 3060-70 era stuff. It really maximizes your need to pick exactly the right set of units to work together and be survivable on their own. Then you have to use them to adapt of whatever the opponent brings. Always bring one ECM just in case. Win or lose, you can still say you fought them with outdated units. Downside is your picks are limited to the units that care to mount near max armor and are sinked reasonably. You won't be fast, but you'll be resilient. I've found not having to budget for a lot of the fancy tech allows you to out-tonnage or outnumber your opponents. As for C3 usage, don't just send the one scout unit forward. It will become the defacto only target. Present a couple bad targets together to spread the armor around. That Bishamon with the C3 Master is hilarious. It's so fast, you can move your network hub around the ECM blockages. It can be the squirrel you distract the opponent with. If you do get hit it's still a quad, so you can usually get away. Amechwarrior fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Feb 2, 2024 |
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Feb 2, 2024 04:44
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After 40 years of game design, accidental or not, the best IS weapon is still the Medium Laser.
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Feb 2, 2024 04:48
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:After 40 years of game design, accidental or not, the best IS weapon is still the Medium Laser.  Don't get me wrong, there's an argument to be made that it's still the best heat:tonnage:damage ratio for weapons with a range longer than 3 hexes, but that particular optimization point only matters if you're constrained by tonnage then unit count. That is to say, that's true if you're playing a campaign or roleplaying a unit that has to use a dropship to get places. It hasn't been true in a practical sense since games stopped being balanced by tonnage (hello <insert Clan gun here> (its the Medium Pulse Laser)), which I guess means it's still true for the groggiest grogs  The biggest and best benefit of running Introtech into advanced late era stuff is that you will have more units with more armor and at a certain point it becomes impossible to chew through that much armor without getting lucky even with better guns before they get close enough to start wailing on whichever leg took more damage on the way in until you fall over and die.
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Feb 2, 2024 08:29
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Fine, if you want to be a BV optimizing weirdo then the best IS weapon is...what was it, the Ultra AC/5???
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Feb 2, 2024 08:34
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:Fine, if you want to be a BV optimizing weirdo then the best IS weapon is...what was it, the Ultra AC/5??? Medium Variable Speed Pulse Laser, hands loving down.
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Feb 2, 2024 10:30
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Jade Falcon birbs have come to terrorize in the name of Chinggis Khan Malvina (I painted this Trinary based on the Dark Age clix schemes for Jade Falcon, my friend couldn't decide which one he liked better, so he gets both).      
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Feb 2, 2024 14:35
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:Fine, if you want to be a BV optimizing weirdo then the best IS weapon is...what was it, the Ultra AC/5??? It is still the Clan Medium Pulse. Then its the Clan Ultra AC/5, in my not-so-humble-but-absolutely-still-an opinion. Ideally you just use both. raverrn posted:Medium Variable Speed Pulse Laser, hands loving down. Love me a Medium VSPL and it has real use cases and is really good inside those use cases but the raw cost effective performance of a Clan MPL is obscene.
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Feb 2, 2024 17:24
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Strobe posted:It is still the Clan Medium Pulse. Ah, at first I had assumed you meant the IS Medium Pulse, but now I see you missed the 3025/3050 IS UNITS ONLY qualifiers - I was commenting on Amechwarrior's playstyle in their post. So with that restriction, what say you? Sidesaddle Cavalry fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Feb 2, 2024 |
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Feb 2, 2024 18:39
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I've gotten a few books ahead of my short reviews, so a brief catchup: The Hunters: a pretty good book. I like the teething pains that the newly integrated SLDF strike force is going through on the way to Huntress, and the Nekekami PoV stuff is a fun misdirect for what happens to Morgan. The Battle of Trafalgar is fun, but Gressman regularly forgets that not every part of a ship is a grav deck. Freebirth: Robert Thurston's worst work. Russou Howell having a mid life crisis after suddenly being promoted from command of a Star to Command of an entire planet with a garrison of two Galaxies. None of it really makes sense, and the "secret mission" that sent Horse to Falcon's Eyrie is just forgotten at the end. Interesting to see The Society being set up as a villain this early though. This was the first BattleTech book I ever read, because it was the first one I ever found. If I read this first as an adult it'd probably have killed my interest in the setting. Sword and Fire: somehow Gressman kind of managed to get worse at writing in his second book. Also funny how "who killed Morgan?!?!?!" has become this big fandom mystery when it's flat out stated in the book. The poison that killed him is available on three planets. Two of them are in the Lyran Alliance, one of those is in the Lyons Thumb and has DCMS peacekeepers on it. The third planet is in the Draconis Combine. Conveniently the Nekekami pop up to go "hey that dude what did it, he's Loki. We've met him on ops before" and at this point while "secret Wobbie plot" is always an option... let's all just acknowledge that it's obviously Katherine and move on, yeah? Kind of an anti-climactic 12 hour fight for Huntress, and weirdly, even discounting the surprise protomechs, it seems that the whole omnimech superiority thing and Clan age prejudice has been clearly debunked here given that just two Galaxies managed to do as much damage as they did to ten full regiments.
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Feb 2, 2024 20:02
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:Ah, at first I had assumed you meant the IS Medium Pulse, but now I see you missed the 3025/3050 IS UNITS ONLY qualifiers - I was commenting on Amechwarrior's playstyle in their post. Oh, yeah, I was thinking the "40 years" meant you were talking all-time. Amechwarrior has a bullseye on it: it's not a weapon in 3025, it's the concept of a mech with max armor that don't cripple themselves with heat. Avoid big batteries of LRMs, AC/2s and usually AC/5s and otherwise any combination of SRMs, lasers, PPCs, and AC/10s and 20s will be efficient. There literally is not enough of an efficiency gap to worry about it outside of being a well armored and functional unit.
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Feb 2, 2024 20:09
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