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Enderal exists as proof that it's not the game engine that's holding Bethesda back from making good games. Though I also have memories of endlessly spinning around enemies to try and fight them with how combat was tuned, so I suppose it doesn't help.
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Feb 3, 2024 19:35
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Philippe posted:It's a great example of how the Bethesda world design doesn't really work in a modern context. The only crimes are theft and murder, and the only punishment is death or being pressganged into infiltrating the space pirate faction. Does the UC have a court system? There are militarised cops everywhere, what legal code do they operate from? Same problem with crafting and the limited economy of shopkeepers. It doesn't make sense in a massive stable space-faring civilization.
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Feb 3, 2024 19:40
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Nevermind the fact that you can sell stuff back to merchants. I hardly believe a supermodern space economy would be as much into bartering as a pseudomedieval or a post-apocalyptic society. Selling to the Trade Authority makes a leetle bit of sense, because they're amoral business types who'll take anything, but selling to the glitzy merchants at New Atlantis? Absolutely not, take your dubiously acquired and mysteriously bloody spacesuits elsewhere, you're staining the furniture.
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Feb 3, 2024 19:50
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Everyone asks how they can tell a random pen or cup you picked up by accident was stolen but they can smell the stench of death right on it. Shame on you.
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Feb 3, 2024 19:58
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Actually, does the stolen tag apply to things you take off even non-hostile corpses? I’m pretty sure if you steal a pen and no one sees it they won’t buy it, but if you shoot a bunch of office workers the merchants will buy their clothes full of fresh bullet holes
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Feb 3, 2024 21:29
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Actually, does the stolen tag apply to things you take off even non-hostile corpses? I’m pretty sure if you steal a pen and no one sees it they won’t buy it, but if you shoot a bunch of office workers the merchants will buy their clothes full of fresh bullet holes Nooope. Bic pen taken off a bureaucrats desk by accident? UNCLEAN! THIEF! Same pen covered in still warm blood? Why sure I’ll buy this from you.
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Feb 4, 2024 01:28
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Khanstant posted:It's not that they are incapable, it's that they deliberately choose to design it this way because of a fundamental mismatch on what they want the games to be and what everyone else expects them to be. i revisited witcher 3 after 7 years and noticed the dialogue is chock full of discussions of why alternative action plans are ruled out. Even if the underlying logic is questionable at deeper inspection, it goes a long way to make the characters feel real
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Feb 4, 2024 03:20
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1glitch0 posted:Same problem with crafting and the limited economy of shopkeepers. It doesn't make sense in a massive stable space-faring civilization. im also gonna walk to my friend's house 10 miles away to talk instead of through the phone, because todd inspired me to
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Feb 4, 2024 03:31
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Palladium posted:i revisited witcher 3 after 7 years and noticed the dialogue is chock full of discussions of why alternative action plans are ruled out. Even if the underlying logic is questionable at deeper inspection, it goes a long way to make the characters feel real The key with the witcher is also that Garalt is a fully fleshed out protagonist. There's no character creator. There isn't any empty vessel PC that can be anything you want them to be. There's rear end in a top hat Garalt and Slightly Less rear end in a top hat Garalt. Having a crafted PC with motivation and character does a loving LOT for a story.
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Feb 4, 2024 04:11
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Honestly I think people would probably look past a lot of the nonsensical lore if the gameplay was extremely fun. But yeah, lol that radios exist in-game and get used occasionally, but you still need to traverse the planet to talk to someone
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Feb 4, 2024 04:49
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Cyrano4747 posted:There's rear end in a top hat Garalt and Slightly Less rear end in a top hat Garalt. Provoking Yen into teleporting Geralt above a lake was really funny. I really wish I could have gotten to beating that game completely, but the whole thing with the Baron and the crones was so cool that when it was finally done I couldn't care less about the main story lol.
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Feb 4, 2024 04:51
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Cyrano4747 posted:Having a crafted PC with motivation and character does a loving LOT for a story. This is a nice theory on paper but they tried this with Fallout 4 and it turned out like Fallout 4.
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Feb 4, 2024 05:00
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Khanstant posted:This is a nice theory on paper but they tried this with Fallout 4 and it turned out like Fallout 4. Fallout 4's protagonist was still Empty PC Vessel, just this time with a tiny bit of backstory.
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Feb 4, 2024 05:04
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It wasn't just backstory it was also the main campaign and tone and character for the PC. It not being a blank vessel was a huge reason the story and quests were so bad. Quests railroaded to the character and story sucked because Bethesda wrote it plus it wasn't really up to you at all, and quests neutral to the character didn't make much sense with their whole lost family deal. Splitting the difference did them no favours but nothing else about it indicates going all-in on writing a proper character would've been an improvement. Again, just because it's them, Witcher 3 is all in on a predefined character and is obviously good for it.
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Feb 4, 2024 05:09
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Not being able to just blow away the board members is the cardinal sin of the mission, maybe the game. I don't understand why they're marked as essential, not to spoil things for anyone but space hedonism resort doesn't really play a major part in the fate of the universe
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Feb 4, 2024 05:11
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Palladium posted:im also gonna walk to my friend's house 10 miles away to talk instead of through the phone, because todd inspired me to Also the super secure room in the back of the shop, but you can just crouch and sneak in and as long as the guard doesn't see you, it's fine to take things, as if robbing a medieval shopkeep
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Feb 4, 2024 05:20
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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:Also the super secure room in the back of the shop, but you can just crouch and sneak in and as long as the guard doesn't see you, it's fine to take things, as if robbing a medieval shopkeep I mean, this might work in real life
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Feb 4, 2024 05:22
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Inspector Hound posted:I mean, this might work in real life In real life when stealing from the back of the shop you usually work there.
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Feb 4, 2024 05:48
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We know security camera technology exists, because there's a quest where someone hacks into a building's security system to instruct you where and when to go in real time. They could have set up a system where after going on a kleptomania spree you get hit with the bounty days later using that as the rationale and it might have even been good. Starfield may be a game about living in the future, but Bethesda is stuck in the past.
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Feb 4, 2024 05:53
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isndl posted:We know security camera technology exists, because there's a quest where someone hacks into a building's security system to instruct you where and when to go in real time. They could have set up a system where after going on a kleptomania spree you get hit with the bounty days later using that as the rationale and it might have even been good. why steal anything when nobody has enough space cash to buyback legit stuff anyway
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Feb 4, 2024 06:15
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Spending thousands to upgrade your ship for smuggling, then realising that the contraband scan is literally just a dice roll, and then also realising your contraband is worth gently caress all anyway
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Feb 4, 2024 07:36
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Inspector Hound posted:Not being able to just blow away the board members is the cardinal sin of the mission, maybe the game. I don't understand why they're marked as essential, not to spoil things for anyone but space hedonism resort doesn't really play a major part in the fate of the universe What isn't marked as essential apart from random no-name NPCs spawned to walk around aimlessly?
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Feb 4, 2024 09:37
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webmeister posted:Spending thousands to upgrade your ship for smuggling, then realising that the contraband scan is literally just a dice roll, and then also realising your contraband is worth gently caress all anyway Thousands of ships per day, near peer pirate faction, and rogue mercenaries all over, yet the UC/Freestar always have enough resources to scan and interdict you. Skyrim felt like the world continued on when you’re not in around but it feels like everything stops until you return in SF.
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Feb 4, 2024 13:21
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Another thing that makes that break is the fact that NPCs don't have schedules. Stores are open all the time, nobody goes anywhere, etc.
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Feb 4, 2024 15:09
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Are we sure they didn't use Radiant AI to design the quests?
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Feb 4, 2024 15:26
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Philippe posted:Another thing that makes that break is the fact that NPCs don't have schedules. Stores are open all the time, nobody goes anywhere, etc. kinda makes the whole local time vs universal time thing pointless
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Feb 4, 2024 17:35
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I guess the news leaked out that Starfield is coming to PS5 later this year. I'm not sure if congrats Playstation owners is the right word?
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Feb 4, 2024 23:44
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That’s legit cool, if for no other reason than what it implies about the output of all those other studios MS ate up. But yeah, missing out on Starfield turned out to be no great loss.
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Feb 5, 2024 00:08
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Rinkles posted:That’s legit cool, if for no other reason than what it implies about the output of all those other studios MS ate up. But yeah, missing out on Starfield turned out to be no great loss. It implies that everything is on fire and nothing they’ve made or are in the process of making is hitting their internal targets for quality or time or budget.
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Feb 5, 2024 04:53
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Chillmatic posted:It implies that everything is on fire and nothing they’ve made or are in the process of making is hitting their internal targets for quality or time or budget. On one hand it's broadening the revenue stream, but on the other hand do they have the resources to test and maintain another code base when they barely have their current stuff moving?
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Feb 5, 2024 05:16
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Ninurta posted:Are we sure they didn't use Radiant AI to design the quests? Far too few quests for them to be generated by a random number generator. No I think they were designed by a cardboard committee whose favorite color was beige.
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Feb 5, 2024 05:49
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All of those mission board quests are AI generated I think? Like all those ones where “trade authority wants you to clear system xx of pirates” or “deliver 30 glue to system yy” are surely just ai generated, and the actual story/faction/side quest stuff is all hand crafted (and of varying quality)
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Feb 5, 2024 06:25
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I don’t think that kind of basic automation is usually referred to as AI.
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Feb 5, 2024 06:27
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Yeah a random number generator is old as computers themselves. Maybe older. (picks up big bag of dice) You meet a (rolls dice) elf in the tavern who gives you a quest to (rolls dice) kill some goblins who have (rolls dice) stolen the king's prize herd of goats. You must journey to the (rolls dice) ... tropical island, huh okay, and save them. As a reward you will get (rolls dice) a... ornamental grand piano worth (rolls dice) 400 gold. Welcome to the wonderful world of d100 tables in pen & paper. DancingShade fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Feb 5, 2024 |
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Feb 5, 2024 06:33
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Part of the original "radiant AI" thing was about how NPCs had schedules of "stuff they need to do" and the "special" part about it was that they'd do their own pathfinding (er, "figuring out how to get their goals completed") instead of "just adhere to this one route at this one specific scheduled time" which is kind of funny in the context of nobody having a schedule anymore
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Feb 5, 2024 07:28
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Right, I’ve misunderstood what “radiant AI” means then. I just assumed it meant any kind of computer generated content, as opposed to human-generated content. Which, yeah, calling that stuff AI is pretty generous
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Feb 5, 2024 08:09
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:Part of the original "radiant AI" thing was about how NPCs had schedules of "stuff they need to do" and the "special" part about it was that they'd do their own pathfinding (er, "figuring out how to get their goals completed") instead of "just adhere to this one route at this one specific scheduled time" i never once cared for it in oblivion, or skyrim for that matter hell imo it was more a PITA than contributing to muh immersionz Palladium fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Feb 5, 2024 |
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Feb 5, 2024 09:11
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webmeister posted:Right, I’ve misunderstood what “radiant AI” means then. I just assumed it meant any kind of computer generated content, as opposed to human-generated content. It was called “radiant quests” in Skyrim and later games, so you’re not entirely wrong.
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Feb 5, 2024 09:22
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The actual "radiant AI" was only in Oblivion and was removed for Skyrim. It could cause a lot of problems with important NPCs wandering off because their pathing took them to a weird place and either getting killed or the player just not being able to find them. Oblivion nerds will talk about it like it's a lost treasure, and arguably it does make Oblivion a better pure gently caress around simulator, but the reasons why they stuck with more traditional defined pathing in Skyim are sound. Of course by then "radiant" was a buzzword for them so they just meant it to use anything procedurally generated, hence "radiant quests" which is a term you see in both Skyrim and IIRC FO4.
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Feb 5, 2024 15:19
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Didn’t the original Radiant AI for oblivion occasionally lead to bugfuck stuff like “I want to sweep shop. Therefore, I want broom. I do not have broom. Neighbor lady has broom. Kill neighbor lady, take broom, sweep shop.”
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Feb 5, 2024 16:26
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