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the B-1 can't even carry nukes anymore, which was also its original role
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Feb 3, 2024 00:52
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JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:the B-1 can't even carry nukes anymore, which was also its original role Only if we want to piss Russia off. More.
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Feb 3, 2024 00:55
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the evolution of the US Air Force into an organization hyper-specialized for combat against enemies that cannot shoot back has been grimly amusing the Navy and the ground forces all have to contend with at least the possibility that somebody might be able to shoot back at them, the Air Force is an entire branch of the military whose job is to fire the Maxim guns at the disobedient natives and they're still armed and equipped as though they might have to fight a real war against a peer competitor, so they have all these extremely expensive fancy aircraft to do jobs that could be done just fine by a Cessna Caravan
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Feb 3, 2024 01:00
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JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:the B-1 can't even carry nukes anymore, which was also its original role yeah it doesn't really have much use other than bombing defenseless countries. if there are capable sams around they could just send in a b52 with a buncha cruise missiles
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Feb 3, 2024 01:03
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Mister Bates posted:
i dunno, those ground guys got their poo poo wrecked by iraqi and afghani resistance movements. the whole us military seems incapable of fighting anyone equipped with stuff made post ww2 unless they're basically a city-state type country
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Feb 3, 2024 01:06
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my homeless prisoner armies... 
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Feb 3, 2024 01:33
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Mandel Brotset posted:im no clausewitz but arent you supposed to feed your troops? they heard 'the war will feed itself' but didn't wanna read a book
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Feb 3, 2024 02:27
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Mister Bates posted:the evolution of the US Air Force into an organization hyper-specialized for combat against enemies that cannot shoot back has been grimly amusing FF will probably explain it better, but colonial occupation forces specialize over time into only being good at their main day to day job: slaughtering civilians. it leads to a sort of racist complacency where you just gaslight yourself into thinking all of your enemies are paper tigers. successfully fighting a peer enemy?? gently caress, that requires a totally different skillset and worldview
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Feb 3, 2024 02:30
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Was the British army good at beating up Indians? Did they develop special colony policing weapons?
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Feb 3, 2024 02:56
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Skaffen-Amtiskaw posted:Only if we want to piss Russia off. More. Hell, the B-1 hasn't had a nuclear mission since 1994, and then was formally denuclearized for good in 2007, based on a treaty with Russia. This does not stop like 60% of reporters from referring to it as a nuclear bomber in passing.
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Feb 3, 2024 02:59
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I mean technically the B-29 is a nuclear bomber but if those were deployed I imagine the reaction would be more "wow where did you get those?" than anything.
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Feb 3, 2024 03:07
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JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:now is it just a b-52 substitute against anyplace with poo poo air defense? it can, technically, carry more weaponry than the b-52. correct. israel complained to  that they weren't able to kill enough civilians with f-16 bombing runs into syria and asked for bigger bombloads
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Feb 3, 2024 03:26
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JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:What does the B1 do these days? It was supposed to be high altitude, high speeed, then soviet air defenses evolved mid project, so it was kept going as a low altitude, high speed bomber. it got terrain mapping radar, etc., so like, really low. now is it just a b-52 substitute against anyplace with poo poo air defense? it can, technically, carry more weaponry than the b-52. Most often, dropping bombs against relatively defenseless areas. What is its "real war" mission now? It's a missile carrier, both land attack and anti-ship missiles. Kind of like the TU-160M modernization program straight up renames the TU-160 as a "missile bomber" and the blackjack and bear carry a bunch of cruise missiles around.
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Feb 3, 2024 03:42
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hamas ftw posted:FF will probably explain it better, but colonial occupation forces specialize over time into only being good at their main day to day job: slaughtering civilians. it leads to a sort of racist complacency where you just gaslight yourself into thinking all of your enemies are paper tigers. "Call for Kwantung Army, Kwantung Army to the white courtesy phone in the lobby."
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Feb 3, 2024 03:45
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Pomeroy posted:"Call for Kwantung Army, Kwantung Army to the white courtesy phone in the lobby." except the actual kwantung army units worth a poo poo had been transferred to japan prior to the invasion of manchuria which is one of the many reasons why macarthur would have been lynched once coronet and olympic made the trenches of ypres look like cake walks
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Feb 3, 2024 03:55
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hamas ftw posted:FF will probably explain it better, but colonial occupation forces specialize over time into only being good at their main day to day job: slaughtering civilians. it leads to a sort of racist complacency where you just gaslight yourself into thinking all of your enemies are paper tigers. comes back to perverse incentives war generates no wealth globally, it only takes it from others through funding or conquest, so it has a fixed profit margin, everyone getting any of that margin wants more and everything they take is less for the army war makes war profiteers a ton of wealth however so there's still a huge incentive for making a war work not a huge incentive for winning them, huge incentive for expensive equipment not a hugs incentive for a lot of excess industrial capacity or stockpiles - stockpiles means you can't have as low overhead, lightweight supply-chain, you can exchange new products in, all things great for profit but bad for warfare which means a low manpower high tech high mobility fighting force is excellent for profitable colonial suppression, but not at fighting a war, wars need armies and will only have one best option determined by location and materials, any motivation driving any part of an army that isn't "winning a war" will always make it become less effective over time
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Feb 3, 2024 04:04
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This is how actual guns and guillotines style revolutions start
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Feb 3, 2024 04:17
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:This is how actual guns and guillotines style revolutions start Fortunately the general population is now sufficiently ignorant that most lack the ability to construct even a rudimentary guillotine. The patronage system will likely make a return as resources get more scant.
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Feb 3, 2024 05:31
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dead gay comedy forums posted:I commented about that weeks ago and it's still a roflmao https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/justin-mohn-beheading-national-guard-b2489644.html Looks like others have similar ideas
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Feb 3, 2024 06:05
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In the end the fall of so many empires historically can be summarized as “the guys with pointy sticks realized the guy in expensive clothes did not have a pointy stick.”
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Feb 3, 2024 07:59
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zetamind2000 posted:their conclusion was that the troops are welfare queens that don't know how to save money After the taxpayer pays your medical bills, And after the taxpayer ensures you will never have to compete with the local market for affordable on-base housing, And after the taxpayer provides 3 meals a day, The taxpayer still greedily leaves you hanging on your big truck bills. And then your kids eat canned food like actual poor people. poo poo makes me sick.
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Feb 3, 2024 08:16
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Votskomit posted:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/justin-mohn-beheading-national-guard-b2489644.html lol the nazi national guardsman looks like he has microcephaly
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Feb 3, 2024 09:00
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stephenthinkpad posted:Was the British army good at beating up Indians? Did they develop special colony policing weapons? very much so. I went over with it to frosted flakes but that colonial army was pantsed by the IJA when world war 2 started in the pacific. The british were forced to accelerate the creation of an actual fighting army which was immediately infiltrated by Communist Party of India cadre - creating a politically unreliable force that could do things like handle artillery, drive tanks, have officers who could take charge of brigades in a pinch.
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Feb 3, 2024 09:08
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Yeah, the sheer speed and completeness with which colonial forces in SE Asia fell to bits when forced to fight a proper war was quite a thing to see. It also did for the empires in the longer term, by killing off the myth of the superiority of White armies, which the colonial forces had been coasting on for the longest time.
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Feb 3, 2024 09:25
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Pistol_Pete posted:Yeah, the sheer speed and completeness with which colonial forces in SE Asia fell to bits when forced to fight a proper war was quite a thing to see. It also did for the empires in the longer term, by killing off the myth of the superiority of White armies, which the colonial forces had been coasting on for the longest time. i lol'ed when i also found out macarthur was a complete idiot at anything outside of running West Point
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Feb 3, 2024 10:49
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i guess any subjugated army can't ever be allowed to actually be 'good' at their job because its inherently dangerous to the status quo. What confuses me is how it seems like this was forgotten about by the actual ghouls in charge. They kinda just forgot that these forces were only really a fighting force on paper and actually tried to use them in a war.
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Feb 3, 2024 11:06
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I would say if you want a real colonial army you probably would look at Egypt or Saudi Arabia where outside more elite units, it is clear there are no where useful on the battlefield. The US or the UK isn't that bad (at least not yet) but it is also clear that the brass and the political elite have refused to take the erosion occurring into account. Right now, the US/UK seem to be mostly hoping to bluff their way forward to try to use what capacity they have to keep a lid on the situation.
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Feb 3, 2024 11:13
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the brits at their peak were significantly more competent at empire-running than the americans tbh.
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Feb 3, 2024 11:31
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Tankbuster posted:the brits at their peak were significantly more competent at empire-running than the americans tbh. Arguably the Brits at their height had a more centralized state apparatus while it really took until the 1940s-1950s for the US, and by the 1980s neoliberalism already had set in.
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Feb 3, 2024 12:06
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Tankbuster posted:the brits at their peak were significantly more competent at empire-running than the americans tbh. Yeah I think the idea of running strategic seaport cities around the trade route was a smarter way to control the world than operating 200+ military bases which easily piss off the locals and are very costly to run. It's a very MICbrain way of running the world.
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Feb 3, 2024 13:36
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Palladium posted:i lol'ed when i also found out macarthur was a complete idiot at anything outside of running West Point this is inaccurate, he was also very good at self-promotion
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Feb 3, 2024 15:26
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stephenthinkpad posted:Yeah I think the idea of running strategic seaport cities around the trade route was a smarter way to control the world than operating 200+ military bases which easily piss off the locals and are very costly to run. its what the british used too. A lot of the british state led inroads into africa were coaling stations to secure a passage to india. The army cantonment system is pretty different from the US military base system in that its specifically made to keep restive populations down at a quick glance. Kitchener's reforms in India were primarily made to do with creating a centralized military force that could grind xp shooting at waziri tribesmen. That army got into a ton of trouble in WW1 and forced reforms like "we need native officers because our precious white men who can speak their languages keep dying at cartoonishly high rates." The political horizon of india from right before ww1 went from "home rule like the irish were going to get" to "we are a hair's breadth away from a bolshevik revolution with two million men who know how to use modern weaponry" by the end of WW2. The british unlike the provisional russian government or Chaing Kai Shrek knew how to nip that poo poo in the bud. Ardennes posted:Arguably the Brits at their height had a more centralized state apparatus while it really took until the 1940s-1950s for the US, and by the 1980s neoliberalism already had set in. The US state department largely took over from the british foreign office when it came to the subcontinent at least. By the time they managed to get used to the new reality on the ground neoliberalism had started and the US had significantly better tools in the form of the IMF to implement it's designs.
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Feb 3, 2024 15:54
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Yeah for one thing, British built railroads and connectivity in remote colonies, has the US state dept ever had a hand in developing connectivity even in container trade network? Nothing I can think of after the Panama canal. If China is in North America, a railroad and 8 lane highway running all the way to Patagonia would have built a long time ago.
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Feb 3, 2024 16:14
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stephenthinkpad posted:Yeah for one thing, British built railroads and connectivity in remote colonies, has the US state dept ever had a hand in developing connectivity even in container trade network? Nothing I can think of after the Panama canal. The Marshall Plan, the redevelopment of Japan and South Korea, those were all pretty big infrastructure investments. But that’s the thing, American empire is about creating investment opportunities in a way the British empire was not. So things like the Firestone rubber plantation in Liberia or the Freeport MacMoRan mine at Grasberg in Indonesia are examples of the infrastructure the state department helped build. Or billions in onerous loans from the World Bank. That’s the American way.
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Feb 3, 2024 17:36
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this is why we are trying to destroy ukraine and taiwan. we just care so much about rebuilding our friends countries that we cant wait.
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Feb 3, 2024 17:40
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stephenthinkpad posted:Yeah for one thing, British built railroads and connectivity in remote colonies, has the US state dept ever had a hand in developing connectivity even in container trade network? Nothing I can think of after the Panama canal. does this count ? Ankara-Gerede Highway - Trans-Turkish Motorway | Bechtel  www.bechtel.com posted:Turkey’s Ankara-Gerede highway is one of the largest road projects in history and is part of a highway system that is essential to the Turkish economy.
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Feb 3, 2024 17:55
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mawarannahr posted:does this count ? It counts if it was built by the Americans. Now that you mentioned it, I remember the US built a ring national road in Afghanistan during the 10 year occupation of the country. Trabisnikof posted:The Marshall Plan, the redevelopment of Japan and South Korea, those were all pretty big infrastructure investments. I have to think about this one. It's kinda stretching to put them in the category of facilitating connectivities and trades. I think the difference is the philosophy is to give out cheap and free resource to restore the prosperity of the (friendly) regions, not creating brand new trade routes. You also have a big hand in setting the new house rules during the rebuilding. stephenthinkpad has issued a correction as of 19:08 on Feb 3, 2024 |
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Feb 3, 2024 18:52
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WRT JIT - that was never intended to military logistics, which use both "Push" and "Pull" with increasing amounts of stockpiling at each echelon, from 3 days supply at the lowest tactical level to several weeks (minimum) at theatre level.* The idea of JIT munitions is loving insane. How on earth could you supply munitions as-needed on a rapidly evolving battlefield? You would never be able to get out of any sort of hole you were dug into, and units would have to surrender immediately if supply was cut for even a day. Instead, fresh water, food, ammo and POL are constantly dumped on units by their supplying echelons because by the time they realize they will need extra, they won't be able to wait for supply to deliver it to them - there is no time. Any combat unit performing any function will always need those supplies, so there is no need to request them, or for them to be delivered on an as-needed basis. If they are in the field, they are consuming those supplies, so what benefit would there be to waiting for a request? They're standard consumables, there's no question that they need them. Why would you keep them hovering on the precipice of running out by not allowing for a stockpile? For instance, what's the harm of a unit having 3 days ammunition on hand? Why would it be easier for the logisticians to run up supply, possibly under fire, at random times instead of on a schedule which allows the limited (and shrinking in a war) assets of the Service Battalion to support the entire Brigade and keep supplies flowing? That's only possible if there are stockpiles on either end, and the REMFs can create dumps near tank laagers and gun positions to loop through and drop off their supplies rapidly rather than sorting through who ordered what or whatever. Having said that, western military leadership is full of MBA brain and much of the supporting logistics and infrastructure that would make something like the Red Ball Express even possible has been dissolved. They might claim there's some benefit, but these are ideologically informed changes with negative side effects, not any sort of optimizations. Which, as someone pointed out ITT, war is neither optimized nor efficient - nor should it be! Every material advantage possible should be applied whenever possible, not just enough to meet success or whatever. That removes any margin for error - or the enemy - loving up those perfectly laid plans. *In theory. DJJIB-DJDCT has issued a correction as of 21:13 on Feb 3, 2024 |
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Feb 3, 2024 21:06
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it takes a very special neoliberal econ brain would think of "oh no the economy is overheating because of war production this is very bad" while actually having many more times the production capacity of the adversary country
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Feb 3, 2024 21:25
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stephenthinkpad posted:It counts if it was built by the Americans. Now that you mentioned it, I remember the US built a ring national road in Afghanistan during the 10 year occupation of the country. Wasn’t that started by the Soviets?
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Feb 3, 2024 21:37
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