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Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

khwarezm posted:

You know, I actually have almost the exact opposite view, in SS2 the character who's bossing you around at the start is just some bossy lady who it then turns out was actually some robot lady from the last game, we get no real sense of Dr Polito as a persona that Shodan is falsely inhabiting, and accordingly I didn't have much if any emotional connection to the character that made it a shocking reveal, It was more kind of, 'oh, ok'. I know you can find some of her audio logs of Polito beforehand that make her seem a little more human but its not really enough to make it clear that something was afoot, honestly Shodan's presence in SS2 is a lot less impactful overall than in the first game.

In contrast, Atlas does a lot more to sweet talk you in Bioshock and even gives you a cock and bull story about a wife and kid to get you on side, I think his boggy Irish accent was a good idea to make the player drop their suspicions more, and simultaneously the game does a lot to build up Fontaine and his effects on Rapture and how much of a nemesis he became for Andrew Ryan. The biggest mistake imo for the Bioshock Atlas/Fontaine twist was having it literally a couple of minutes after the 'Would you kindly...' one, but then I guess when the cat was out of the bag its not really something that Fontaine would keep going.

I remember Polito’s audio logs establishing she was a kind, thoughtful person who cared about her crew members and the mission, and as time goes on the gap between that persona and the person who’s officiously bossing you around gets uncomfortable. There are a couple of tells - some poor jerk on the Rickenbacker responding to a request of hers and saying it’s like she’s not even the same person any more, that moment of weird distortion in her voice in Hydroponics when she complains that you’re taking too long that’s just conspicuous enough in the moment to explain away as a hitch in the voice message system - but Shodan’s reveal is still a shot to the gut, partly because your agency is wrenched away from you during that scene. Within the boundaries of that room Shodan wields a conspicuous amount of power. Maybe I’m giving it too much credit - 25 years ago I was a different person, and easier to impress - but outside its stupid-head weapon degradation mechanic I thought System Shock 2 was fuckin’ swell. And nothing Levine’s done since rises to that level for me.

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khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Hasturtium posted:

I remember Polito’s audio logs establishing she was a kind, thoughtful person who cared about her crew members and the mission, and as time goes on the gap between that persona and the person who’s officiously bossing you around gets uncomfortable. There are a couple of tells - some poor jerk on the Rickenbacker responding to a request of hers and saying it’s like she’s not even the same person any more, that moment of weird distortion in her voice in Hydroponics when she complains that you’re taking too long that’s just conspicuous enough in the moment to explain away as a hitch in the voice message system - but Shodan’s reveal is still a shot to the gut, partly because your agency is wrenched away from you during that scene. Within the boundaries of that room Shodan wields a conspicuous amount of power. Maybe I’m giving it too much credit - 25 years ago I was a different person, and easier to impress - but outside its stupid-head weapon degradation mechanic I thought System Shock 2 was fuckin’ swell. And nothing Levine’s done since rises to that level for me.

The issue is that the log that makes her most human and unlike Shodan puppeteering her form is found well into the game, long after the big reveal. Before that there's a couple of logs of her going 'I found this weird AI, it might have something to do with Citadel station!', which is fun foreshadowing and all, but my problem is very much that I don't have much reason to care about Polito as a character before the reveal or even feel like its much of a betrayal. It always feels like a bit of a forced twist to me as a result, I don't think it recontextualizes things enough to add a whole new dimension to the story, or hits the player in the gut with a beloved character not being who you thought they were. Its just revealing that the villain from the first game was here all along (please don't look at the game's cover art)!

Joe Chill
Mar 21, 2013

"What's this dance called?"

"'Radioactive Flesh.' It's the latest - and the last!"
Yeah, what gave away the twist was that Shodan is featured prominently on the box cover.

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.
Yeah, I paused a minute before mentioning Rickenbacker Guy because I thought that might have been revealed later - in which case it’s slapping you with dramatic irony. I think it works in hindsight, but how much of that’s my brain marinating in the whole experience after playing it through multiple times so the pacing and introduction of different elements becomes a muddle is probably a concern. It’s definitely not perfect, but I still like it better than Bioshock, never mind Infinite. (Two seemed fun! I didn’t get that far but I’ll circle back!)

And yes, the game box suggests that she is just maybe involved.

catlord
Mar 22, 2009

What's on your mind, Axa?
I never finished Bioshock, I love the setting and it looks great but otherwise it feels like a step back from System Shock 2 in just about every way. I never played 2, but I did finish Infinite (but never played the DLC). I wish Infinite was more about the world-shifting and old timey assholes who steal technology and stuff they don't really understand from other worlds and gently caress things up. The attempt at an emotionally resonant story was... not good. For gently caress's sake, Shadow Warrior '13 had a better, more emotional story and that game has a lot of dick jokes. I cried for Hoji; I yawned while the Elizabeths drowned me.

Gameplay-wise, I thought Infinite was... ok. Half the arsenal is pretty good, especially once you upgrade them, but then the other half becomes more common at around the halfway point and then you have to upgrade them again and you just wish you had the handcannon again.

Mr. Sharps
Jul 30, 2006

The only true law is that which leads to freedom. There is no other.



the shadow warrior reboot felt like a good michael bay movie with all the violence and explosions combined with the over the top but enjoyable characterization. pretty solid shooting too considering how far ahead of the curve on the boomer shooter renaissance it was

Traveller
Jan 6, 2012

WHIM AND FOPPERY

At this point the twists are all known and the game starts suffering from Dog Ate My Maps syndrome after the Rickenbacker but man, I still yearn for a game that does Cyberpunk Space Dungeon Crawler as good as SS2.

Woolie Wool
Jun 2, 2006


Hasturtium posted:

I remember Polito’s audio logs establishing she was a kind, thoughtful person who cared about her crew members and the mission, and as time goes on the gap between that persona and the person who’s officiously bossing you around gets uncomfortable. There are a couple of tells - some poor jerk on the Rickenbacker responding to a request of hers and saying it’s like she’s not even the same person any more, that moment of weird distortion in her voice in Hydroponics when she complains that you’re taking too long that’s just conspicuous enough in the moment to explain away as a hitch in the voice message system - but Shodan’s reveal is still a shot to the gut, partly because your agency is wrenched away from you during that scene. Within the boundaries of that room Shodan wields a conspicuous amount of power. Maybe I’m giving it too much credit - 25 years ago I was a different person, and easier to impress - but outside its stupid-head weapon degradation mechanic I thought System Shock 2 was fuckin’ swell. And nothing Levine’s done since rises to that level for me.

Perhaps also the team that worked on System Shock 2 was a better team and we shouldn't talk about Ken Levine like he's a solo megawad developer who created a whole game personally.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Regardless of preferences, you'd need to be actively refusing to engage with Bioshock to say that Fontaine is some obscure character buried in the lore.

My issue with Fontaine was always that he goes from the silly over the top Oirish accent to...an equally kind of silly generic gangster thug voice. Maybe it's supposed to place him in sharp contrast to Ryan's eloquence, idk. Narratively speaking, they also replace the more compelling antagonist with, essentially, just some rear end in a top hat. And again, I think that's sort of intentional as part of its commentary on libertarianism? But it just never quite landed for me.

Ironically, I didn't really mind Fontaine turning into a big naked statue man for the final boss fight.

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?
I'm about done with Doom E, I just wrapped up the achievement where you have to beat the game in extra lives mode with 10 over (44, didn't look for rest). I'm gonna uninstall it because the game is pretty big but when I get the first DLC at some point, I assume it'll follow up my vanilla saves? I don't want to have to play through it all again, I've beaten it 4 times in like 40 days. If I reinstall it, games usually save the save files IME, but not always. Will it?

Guillermus
Dec 28, 2009



Milo and POTUS posted:

I'm about done with Doom E, I just wrapped up the achievement where you have to beat the game in extra lives mode with 10 over (44, didn't look for rest). I'm gonna uninstall it because the game is pretty big but when I get the first DLC at some point, I assume it'll follow up my vanilla saves? I don't want to have to play through it all again, I've beaten it 4 times in like 40 days. If I reinstall it, games usually save the save files IME, but not always. Will it?

Both DLCs you can start from the main menu, no need to start the vanilla campaign so you're good to go

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004
Yeah, The Ancient Gods is a separate campaign with seperate save games. You start with everything from the base game automatically unlocked.

suuma
Apr 2, 2009

The Kins posted:

Yeah, The Ancient Gods is a separate campaign with seperate save games. You start with everything from the base game automatically unlocked.

This was actually my problem with the DLC - I put Eternal down for like a year or two and then tried the DLC and the end-game plate-spinning simulator from the start was just a bit too much.

I liked the game a lot but man it was stressful to play by the end.

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.
Especially prior to its rebalancing DLC 1 assumes you didn’t stop playing Eternal after beating it and are ready to sharpen your knives on something tougher. It will make no bones about kicking your nuts in. DLC 2 feels like they ran out of time and slapped together something in time for its ship date, but it is less obnoxious on average.

KajiTheMelonMan
Sep 2, 2004

I killed a Tuskarr

suuma posted:

This was actually my problem with the DLC - I put Eternal down for like a year or two and then tried the DLC and the end-game plate-spinning simulator from the start was just a bit too much.

I liked the game a lot but man it was stressful to play by the end.

You didn't memorize every Heavy/Super Heavy spawn point + monster count, and conserved Chainsaw/BFG ammo only to use for the right moment?!? My god can you even call yourself a GAMER :colbert:

I wish I could go in blind again, because I've played it far too much :smith:

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.
Think I'll do another review of a major Quake project, in this case the first two episodes of Dwell, organized by Fairweather, with the soundtrack by Aleks with a K.



Compared to Alkaline and Arcane Dimensions, this one has a layout conspicuously more similar to the base game, just like Vanilla Quake the intent is to have 4 episodes accessible from a central hub with you being locked into completing each episode in a linear fashion instead of picking and choosing whatever level you want from the hub. Of course since it uses Ironwail you can easily play whatever level you want, but the intent is clear. Also like vanilla quake each episode starts off with a techbase level and then leads into the proper theme of the episode, there's also one secret level hidden in each episode, with some additional secret levels also hidden in the main hub that you gain access to after completing the episode. Finally the plot, insofar as such a thing matters in Quake, is meant to be a direct continuation of vanilla's campaign.

The idea of a big fan project being an unofficial sequel of sorts to the main game is hardly anything new in either Quake or Doom, Epochs of Enmity and Machine games's episodes comes to mind, but I really have to say, after getting over a few initial teething problems Dwell is absolutely next level, based on the standard of work that you see in episode 2 in particular, if they can pull this off with the next two episodes (which I know might be a tall order considering how big a project this is and how fan projects like this have a tendency to stall out) it may well be the best Quake content ever made, which is a big thing to say in light of the other comparable projects I've played but its honestly astounding how far Dwell pushes things as you go through it. The people involved display such a deep understanding of all of the things that makes Quake click, and expand the game in interesting ways and fill gaps that have existed since 1996. Its conspicuously still trying to maintain Quake's core principles rather than reinvent it totally, again in contrast to how I think Alkaline spun off the game into its own thing entirely as a fast paced sci-fi shooter with a lot of new enemies and mechanics like the jump boots and circuit boards. Most of the enemies you encounter are the good old Quake standbys like Ogres and Death Knights, new enemies are introduced, but they do so slowly, there are only 3 in total and 2 of them only appear after the second half of episode 2. The first new enemies are kamikaze troopers ripped directly from Serious Sam, exploding on contact with the player and accordingly making them high priority targets, they can often be very frustrating based on some spawn decisions. Next are these big W40K Ogryn like brutes that are basically upgraded Ogres, shooting three grenades at once, having a lot more health and especially dangerous melee attacks, they basically occupy a role of being a buffed ogre in how they are used. Finally you have these flying crystal enemies that shoot fast and damaging crystal projectiles from a long range, and when they take fatal damage shoot themselves at the player with a slightly homing explosive attack. All of these enemies can be very dangerous but generally it didn't feel like the Mod revolves around new enemies in the way that other ones can. There's also unique bosses at the end of each episode but I'll leave them up for people to find out.

There are 2 new weapons, one of them is a triple shotgun which I've seen show up before (albeit with slightly different mechanics) in stuff like Arcane Dimensions, it's essentially just another tier to the regular shotguns, mostly to help the player handle the increased enemy count. More interesting is the Crystal Lance, a trident that fires long range energy blasts and uses energy cell ammo like the the Tunderbolt, this is one of the better custom weapons I've ever used in Quake, its basically just a railgun similar to the later games but it has a lot of use as a power weapon that lets you pick off enemies from a range in a way that wasn't really possible with other weapons and which has a lot of utility in Dwell's huge maps. It slots right into the arsenal in a way that I never really felt the new weapons from (say) the two mission packs ever did, and its nice to have another use for the cells since they were the only ammo type in vanilla quake with only one weapon associated.

The most impactful, and unexpected, addition that really made a difference playing the game were the new powerups. Just generally the mappers show a rock solid instinct for powerups, knowing where to put all of the usual ones like Quad Damage or Invulnerability to really feel useful while also feeling organic, particularly helped by well balanced use of secrets. But to add to those in Vanilla Quake they have three new ones, Haste (which makes you a bit faster and causes you to fire your weapons twice as fast), Berserk (which hugely buffs your melee attack and gives you significant damage resistance) and Diving Gear(which lets you swim for much longer than normal and makes you faster in the water). I was really surprised by how much these ended up making a difference, they were actually more impactful on the experience than the new enemies or weapons, haste is sort of a less powerful but more liberally used version of Quad Damage in the sense that it allows you to considerably augment your damage output for a period (though its runs out very quickly and absolutely chews through ammo, so you have to really tactical with it), in some situations you can combine it with Quad Damage to go absolutely hog wild. Berserk works really well in the scenarios that are built for it, much like Doom's Berserk it lets you save on ammo but unlike Doom's Berserk the increase in attack speed and extra damage resistance absolutely turns you into a killing machine even in situations surrounded by high level enemies, you can basically make use of it to tear through groups (particularly knights) if you can weave through ranged attacks or just facetank them if you have enough health and armour, both Haste and Berserk are great for achieving that sense of just going nuts for a little while that makes Quad Damage such a good powerup, and the fact that all of these powerups can be combined together is very much made use of in many maps. The Diving Gear is more of a meta thing dependent on broader map design, but again its very cleverly used, mostly because episode 2 is entirely built around water and so proper use of the power quickly becomes crucial as you explore deep waterways, I'll touch on that a bit later. Again, the use of powerups in Dwell is on a level I've never really seen before, the powerups in the mission packs were clunky and weak in comparison and even in stuff like Arcane Dimensions I feel like whatever comparable stuff people came up with weren't really that meaningful. Even some of the weaker default powerups like the Ring of Shadows have situations where the mappers carefully thought out scenarios that get the most utility out of them that I've never seen anywhere else, certainly not any of the official content. It helps as well that Dwell uses and is built around Copper, which rebalances the core Quake combat and items to make things more interesting.

But enough of this talk about new mechanics, the real attraction are the maps. As I said there are two episodes so far with their own unique themes, episode one is called The Shifting Domain and its main gimmick is that you have Egyptian themed levels that get progressively more Lovecraftian and surreal as you move through it, starting off with a fairly basic pyramids and tombs and culminating in Eldrich voids with unholy abominations and rivers of blood, that kind of thing. Episode one is certainly weaker than episode two and you can see a lot of shakiness as they were hashing out what they want to do with the whole project. I think the Egyptian theme is well trodden territory in Doom and Quake mods by now and the first few levels don't put their best foot forward, being a bit too simplistic and bland initially. But it does rapidly get better, although having said that I think that level 7 can be far too much of a slog with a lot of platforming and an overly spread out and confusing overall design. One thing that becomes apparent in this episode is that the creators really love bottomless voids that don't kill you if you fall in but teleport you back to the start after taking off a chunk of health. Some of the visual elements later on in this episode I really like, you see all of this corrupted flesh extruding out of the temple structures and general sense that the whole place is being rotted by some horrific force, and everything really comes to a head with the episode boss which was very impressive compared to what I've usually seen in Quake. The levels here have a bit of an odd structure, compared to other Quake packs I've played like Alkaline and AD, there's less of a sense that you are exploring through these tricky, strange and arcane locales, there's more a feeling that you are moving from one hectic combat arena to the next, since this is also the point when the Kamikaze enemies are introduced I think you can really see the Serious Sam influence in particular. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, of course Quake is a shooter, with very good combat, and at least one of these maps built around pure relentless combat is in my top 5, but especially with map 2 I'm a bit iffy about whether this was a good idea, as I said it doesn't have a strong start when you consider how high quality the rest of the experience is, the first two maps had me feeling a bit bored to start things off, being a bland tech base and a bland combination of square arenas respectively. The secret level that you find in the episode is quite an interesting preview of things to come in episode 2 and explore some of the watery and exploratory themes, albeit in a less well refined manner, meanwhile the secret level you find in the hub area after episode one is completed is probably the most intense of the arena-esque pure combat experiences with minimum clutter to get in the way of that. I don't mean to be too negative about episode one, there are some absolutely rock solid levels, but you can how much things improved between here and episode two for sure, the creators also went back and improved a lot of things in episode one after releasing episode two, including the boss fight which I believe was previously just one of the bosses from Dissolution of Eternity in the final regular level as opposed to an entirely unique boss in its own dedicated level.

Episode two is The Sunken City and this where I think things really take off. As the name might imply you spend most of it running through these vaguely Mesoamerican ruins with a very strong emphasis on water (explicitly Mesoamerican in the case of the secret level). And I mean a very strong emphasis on water, most of the maps in this episode have significant areas where you are exploring fully submerged for long periods. Now, normally when I realize that I'm the middle of the 'water level' in a game my stomach tenses up in anticipation for it being brutally unfun, confusing and punishing, and this being the Quake engine you immediately have flashes of the worst kinds of 90s water levels in the likes of Tomb Raider or Zelda, but I really have to give the mappers credit again for managing to not only pull it off but give me some of the best Quake levels I've ever played while fully playing into the entire water theme. As mentioned above, there's a lot of use of the Diving gear powerup in these levels to give you greater flexibility while submerged and most of these are on a respawn timer, giving you more leeway. There's a lot of water combat (most enemies end up underwater at some point, not just rotfish) and the six degrees of movement results in interesting combat encounters. What really helps though is probably the visuals, as I get onto my top five maps it really becomes apparent but just overall I love the look of this episode with the flowing water, ruins and crystals, its very atmospheric, especially when combined with the music (which is great across both episodes). Something that I really noticed in this episode is that the people making Dwell absolutely love incline jumps and making them key to finding a lot of the secrets, which are generally reasonably hidden and don't feel either too easy to too obnoxious. There's a lot more exploration focus in these levels, but that doesn't suggest the combat has been skimped on, some extremely tough encounters are littered throughout all of them, some of them are so intense they start to be more reminiscent of Doom slaughterwads than anything I'm usually used to playing in Quake, and they prompt similar tactics like heavy use of infighting which otherwise I find I rarely make use of in Quake.

To round things out here are my rankings for the top five best levels, in order of appearance:



1. D1M3 - Under a Funeral Moon: Episode 1 really kicks into high gear with this, its by far the best of the Egyptian theming of the set and the music and cloudy moonlit temple are extremely atmospheric. The level starts off with a bang, you have a quad damage from the word go as you tear through the starting enemies, then it leads into a bit of a catacomb journey with lots of platforming and secrets and smaller encounters before ending in a huge series of arena brawls that introduce the kamikazes. This part of the map is probably the best of the heavy combat arena orientated levels in the first episode, with lots of novel enemy setups and the first of use of the Berserk powerup, but there's lots of additional clever elements, my favourites are one of the secrets that requires you be quick on the draw to shoot red switches revealed by panels that close quickly and the other is an unusual combat challenge in the major arena where you have to stay on top of a small roof and kill the waves of incoming enemies without falling off, its very hard but you get an armour and quad damage for the final encounter if you succeed.




2. D1M8 - Prescience Overload: The last level in episode 1 before the boss, this is the most elaborate and difficult one so far with the most gruelling combat encounters as well, a kind of forsaken temple floating in a dark void it certainly looks the part, and is filled to the brim with secrets, a lot of which require careful platforming over the numerous bottomless pits. Its a very dense level and packs a lot into a space that's not particularly large but certainly feels like a massive achievement to get through it, every corner is hiding some punishing ambush from a bunch of zombies, ogres or vores, every bit of progress seems to result in even more deadly enemies being vomitted back into rooms you previously cleared, and if you have a keen eye you can hoover up powerups and pickups from well hidden but not bullshit hard secrets to give you that fighting edge. I always like maps that have a lot of vertical space and this is no exception, most of the map sees you fighting your way upward to get to grips with enemies above you and demands that you have careful footwork to avoid falling to a lower, more dangerous position or worse, right into the void. The feeling of risk is very strong with lots of points where you are tempted to push as far as possible into a dangerous situation to get the most possible out of a Quad damage or grab a crucial bonus, or make a dangerous jump into what might be a secret or even rocket jump into an area you aren't even sure the developer intends that you reach. The final fight is a gigantic bloody crush of basically every enemy cramming into the final arena, with Ogres and Vores blasting you from side platforms and Knights and Shamblars getting to grips with you up close, as you try to exploit the large amount of health, armour and powerups to blast your way through all of it. A really solid and intimidating final level for this episode that leads into an impressive boss fight in its own right.




3. D2M4 - That We Should Voyage So Far: So, in my previous review for Alkaline I mentioned that my favourite level of that set, and one of my favourite quake levels ever, was Dancing in the Golden Sun by Bal. Interestingly, one of my other favourite Quake levels ever is Arcane Dimensions's Tears of the False God, also by Bal. As luck would have it, That We Should Voyage So Far is another one of my favourite Quake levels ever, and what do you know, its also by Bal! This loving guy is an absolute machine, its just hit after hit with him, every time one of his set piece levels are featured in one of these projects it ends up being one of the best things I've ever played with the perfect combination of evocative, thickly atmospheric, downright beautiful visuals that makes me forget at times I'm playing Quake and not some kind of art game, and almost perfectly tailored map design and encounter design. I couldn't come up with a real complaint about these maps if you held a gun to my head, its almost unfair to anyone else. Voyage is just another masterpiece, the whole level is this set within an island and you can swim around the whole thing, which is recommended so you find the various goodies and secrets scattered in out of the way islets and caves. Off the bat it gives this great sense of freedom, that you can get to everything you can see, and it really takes that idea and runs with it, stuffing in bonuses and extra ammo in every corner and easter eggs in the more unlikely places you can get to with a bit of gumption. It even has access to this episode's secret level. The map has a very pleasing combination of compactness with that sense of freedom, the actual area you are in is fairly small and everything leads back around to a central aisle that spawns in more encounters as you collect and use the keys with a lot of slanted pillars giving a weird sense of space along with the large pools of water. The combat isn't too harsh either, this is the map that first makes extensive use of the crystal enemies and there are loads of ogres, fiends and shamblers, but it also gets balanced out by very liberal use of haste, quad damage and the Crystal Lance. Its more about the vibe and feel of the level, the twilight setting at the ends of the earth, strange crystalline architecture (and some enemies), strange alien looking statues and sombre music really gives it this haunting sense that you're in the midst of the ruins of some long forgotten, unknowable civilization. Its the Lovecraftian elements played more tragically than I've really seen Quake go for before, just absolute perfection.




4. D2M6 - The Waters Below While That We Should Voyage So Far felt sort of melancholic and a bit sad moreso than what you usually get in Quake, The Waters Below feels like a very deliberate attempt to hit upon the unnerving and disconcerting elements of Quake's Lovecraftian tone, there's pervading sense of 'wrongness' about the whole place, an overwhelming idea that something is very much not right and you've stumbled into something you should not have. A lot of this comes from the drowned feel of the map, even compared to the other ones in this episode so far its completely inundated and there's a particularly long underwater section where the Oxygen tanks you need to make it through respawn very slowly, making it feel even more desperate as you are trying to get through what looks like a place people used to live, filled with zombies but completely underwater. This first section of the map really feels run down, the architecture is in a state of collapse, everything is flooded, doors are blocked off crudely with wooden panels, wooden bridges are half destroyed, and there's overgrown plants everywhere. Interestingly, one of the areas you need to reach so that you can progress has almost the same layout as the starting area in Episode one's secret map, which was meant to be a presage of this episode, except in this area its monitored by a creepy, Old one-esque statue that pulls you in against your will and forces you to jump into a large pool filled with more lovecraftian entities. As you make it through you are then teleported to the second half of the map, totally different from the cramped temple of the first, being a misty, ruined town overlooking cavernous drops leading to a ruined castle. The atmosphere gets even thicker, there's a lot of environmental storytelling for Quake, the town seems to have constructed a rickety, desperate looking dam to hold back the waters, but its on the verge of collapse, springing leaks everywhere and only kept up by wooden beams. The central castle is completely overgrown, forcing you to find a way around the front door, strange fish heads underwater spawn dozens of rotfish if you get too close, strange glowing crystals spawn in even more enemies if you go near them and the omnipresent alien statues are overlooking the entire village. The soundtrack tops everything off, just this incredibly effective score at establishing the whole level as off and hostile, overall its just a fantastically atmospheric map, so thick you can cut it with a knife. I don't know if I can say it has that much more going for it, the combat didn't stand out to me too much although it could be quite punishing, but I really can't fault the sense of tone and dread it establishes as you make your way through it.




5. D2M8 - Abyss of the Troglodytes: So, from what I've read around some of the community comments on Dwell, I know Abyss of the Troglodytes is a very controversial map. I get it, the scale is almost unbelievable, 1155 enemies, and 60 secrets, 60. Pagb666's mostly blind playthrough is more than 2 hours long, and he only got 19 secrets. I've never played a Quake map this elaborate and gigantic before, it feels like Mazu wanted to cram in everything possible into it, it touches upon almost everything I can think of that you can put into a quake map between the vast array of combat encounters with every enemy and powerup used in all kinds of different ways, platforming out the wazoo to get to all of the secrets, including much more complicated movement tricks than I've seen in other maps that rely on combining Dwell's aforementioned penchant for incline assisted jumps with extreme speed to go flying all over the central chamber if you can nail it down, puzzles of all kinds that you have to figure out to find more secrets or progress normally (including a very frustrating pillar puzzle), sequences of traps that really demand that your platforming and quick response combat abilities are sharp and ready, exploration including lots of underwater exploration to get through such a cavernous level, and even collectible elements which I know that Mazu loves and which opens up more options and benefits for the player if they can find all of the orb switches hidden throughout the level. The map has enough content that if you divided it into three, the three distinct sections made out of the main routes to get the keys would themselves be huge and difficult maps for any Quake player to approach. gently caress, you could probably make an entire episode out of this map if you split it up right. Usually I'd hate this kind of map, and I know from reading various comments that a lot of people do, its interesting that Mazu also created Overengineering Mania in Alkaline which I found I got sick of very quickly, but the funny thing is that I kind of love Abyss, it really clicked for me in a way that I did not expect going into it.

I think a lot of it boils down the fact that it kind of earns its pure audacity, there is so much variety that it never grows stale. Every section is filled with unique challenges and gimmicks, the fights can be tough as nails but as I mentioned before are laid out in sections almost akin to a Doom slaughtermap where you can run laps around the arena at high speed and see everything descend into infighting. The creativity astounds me, one section starts off with the best use of the Ring of Shadows I've seen in a Quake map, essentially creating a genuine stealth section which is super rare in Quake as you weave between way too many Shamblers than you could hope to take on, going from ring to ring until you get to a massive falling crusher you can drop on top of them and kill them instantly. Later on you find a section that has a relentless combat arena and a portal that transports you into what looks like the same arena except flipped upside down, and even more enemies, both 'sides' of this arena have their secrets that work in tandem to reveal a very odd area. Then there's one of the most complex trap sequences I've ever seen in a quake map, starting off with an exploding bridge, dropping the player down into a passage where a moving spiked wall forces the player to jump through an area packed with Kamikazes and Vores, avoiding lava pits and nail shooters all the way, until you get to an area surrounded by ogres with a rotating nail shooter right in the middle forcing to duck and weave to not get hit by the ludicrous amount of projectiles, at which point you can shoot some switches to turn off the nails, but that causes the ceiling to collapse down on you and, if you successfully avoided that, a bunch of tetris blocks to drop down to give a route up to the top of the passage after some tricky platforming, at which point you can finally get the key after that gauntlet.

I'm really losing the run of myself talking about this map, there's so many things to touch upon I don't know where to stop and lord knows this post has gotten way too long already. The central area is great as an arena and as a hub to connect together all the different map elements while having some of the hardest platforming I've seen in a Quake level to reach the secrets. The secrets in the map are very well put together, I was able to find 56 out of 60 of them and it was a very fun time thinking about all of the unusual and outside of the box places they could have put them, and almost always your intuition pays off. The collectible orb switches that lead to bonus rooms were a particularly good idea, they are all well hidden but you get hints on how to reach them in the bonus area which are much appreciated, and the stuff they unlock can be lifesaving powerups or pickups to keep you going through this marathon of a map. I really feel Mazu learned a lot from Overengineering Mania's 50 circuit boards being too tedious to collect without giving you enough in return, the increasing rewards for finding the orbs is great incentive to keep looking and feeling like you are making progress. Even the water sections felt fitting and unobtrusive, this is the water episode after all. I can't really say that Abyss of the Troglodytes is the perfect map by any means, certainly Bal's offerings will always have a finesse that's not quite present here, but dammit, I kind of love this and just the scale of it demands a certain respect overall, its definitely earned a spot in the top five for me, maybe the top spot, but its a close run thing.


And, in the interest of keeping things consistent, the worst map in the set:



Dwell DM2 - Weeping Shades of indigo: I actually had a bit of a hard time deciding Dwell's worst map, that sounds like an insult but I don't intend it to be, there's not really any standout terrible maps that I just loathe in the way that I might for other projects, its just a few maps that either outstay their welcome (D1M7 - Darkstar Triumvirate) are a bit confusing to navigate while otherwise boring (D2M1 - Technomagical Transfusion) or just feel sloppy and not well put together in terms of flow, focus or atmosphere (D2M7 - Blessed Dwellings in the Dark). None of them are truly bad, so I'm going to give this spot to Weeping Shades of Indigo because it just made barely any impression on me at all. The map feels weirdly out of place, its an episode 2 secret level but it returns to the Egyptian theme except with the episode 2 crystal enemies who look and feel out of place. Its mostly just a rough and hard combat gauntlet without many surprises beyond some bruising, frustrating combat, while also being very short and kind of ugly. Just really nothing to write home about.


So that's about all I wanted to say about Dwell. I'm sorry if this review went overlong and outstayed its welcome but I really found myself engrossed and fascinated by the whole experience and had a lot more to say than I expected. Dwell really is something special so far, I'm desperately waiting for the next episode and if they can keep it up at this level of quality it will probably be the best Quake content out there. Only thing is, probably don't have another map as long as Abyss of the Troglodytes, as much as I enjoyed it, a map of that scale will probably only work once for a project like this and its probably best to keep things more restrained for the future.

khwarezm fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Feb 4, 2024

Bishop Beo
Jul 3, 2009
Having never really played Blood before, is there a specific version I should play that adds QoL improvements? Or is Fresh Supply my best bet?

catlord
Mar 22, 2009

What's on your mind, Axa?

Bishop Beo posted:

Having never really played Blood before, is there a specific version I should play that adds QoL improvements? Or is Fresh Supply my best bet?

Fresh Supply is perfectly fine, and it's the version with Made to Order to customize your difficulty.

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Bishop Beo posted:

Having never really played Blood before, is there a specific version I should play that adds QoL improvements? Or is Fresh Supply my best bet?

Fresh Supply is fine and if you absolutely, positutely must play your FPS games on hard without ever having played them before do not start Blood on Episode 1 as the first 2 levels of that are bar none the hardest single stretch in the game unless you are pitchfork starting every map.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011
Khwarezm the dwell review was a treat to read. Thank you.

Arivia fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Feb 4, 2024

JLaw
Feb 10, 2008

- harmless -
Yeah that brought back some memories of how much I enjoyed playing Dwell eps 1+2.

In general I really appreciate the cohesiveness and sense of thematic+gameplay progression that can come from a good "episode" project (as opposed to collection of maps for a hub) ... and Dwell is one of the best. A special combination of traditional Quake-y-ness and new energy.

I do think that it's kind of a shame to have a mega-map at the end of an episode -- something that is as long as all the other maps put together -- no matter how great it is. It washes out the effectiveness and memorability of the rest of the episode. But it seems like it's almost an irresistible thing for episode projects to want to do.

bbcisdabomb
Jan 15, 2008

SHEESH

Bishop Beo posted:

Having never really played Blood before, is there a specific version I should play that adds QoL improvements? Or is Fresh Supply my best bet?

I thought the movement of Fresh Supply felt weird so I used Raze.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004
Fresh Supply is good and has some cool features like the Made To Order custom difficulty mode, but there's still some bugs that up until recently, the Dreaded Bureaucracy has demanded Night Dive refrain from fixing. It's still pretty fine for most things, though.

Raze is based on nBlood, but has GZDoom's infrastructure forcibly injected into it. It's also pretty good, and some of the bugs in Fresh Supply aren't apparent there, but some of the absolute latest state of the art mapsets will require nBlood itself, at least for now.

nBlood is a source port based on reverse-engineering the Blood binaries and hurling them into the eDuke32 infrastructure. The authors tend to add new toys for mapmakers, so if you're following the bleeding edge, there you go.

Convex
Aug 19, 2010

khwarezm posted:

Think I'll do another review of a major Quake project, in this case the first two episodes of the Dwell, organized by Fairweather, with the soundtrack by Aleks with a K.



Compared to Alkaline and Arcane Dimensions, this one has a layout conspicuously more similar to the base game, just like Vanilla Quake the intent is to have 4 episodes accessible from a central hub with you being locked into completing each episode in a linear fashion instead of picking and choosing whatever level you want from the hub. Of course since it uses Ironwail you can easily play whatever level you want, but the intent is clear. Also like vanilla quake each episode starts off with a techbase level and then leads into the proper theme of the episode, there's also one secret level hidden in each episode, with some additional secret levels also hidden in the main hub that you gain access to after completing the episode. Finally the plot, insofar as such a thing matters in Quake, is meant to be a direct continuation of vanilla's campaign.

The idea of a big fan project being an unofficial sequel of sorts to the main game is hardly anything new in either Quake or Doom, Epochs of Enmity and Machine games's episodes comes to mind, but I really have to say, after getting over a few initial teething problems Dwell is absolutely next level, based on the standard of work that you see in episode 2 in particular, if they can pull this off with the next two episodes (which I know might be a tall order considering how big a project this is and how fan projects like have a tendency to stall out) it may well be the best Quake content ever made, which is a big thing to say in light of the other comparable projects I've played but its honestly astounding how far Dwell pushes things as you go through it. The people involved display such a deep understanding of all of the things that makes Quake click, and expand the game in interesting ways and fill gaps that have existed since 1996. Its conspicuously still trying to maintain Quake's core principles rather than reinvent it totally, again in contrast to how I think Alkaline spun off the game into its own thing entirely as a fast paced sci-fi shooter with a lot of new enemies and mechanics like the jump boots and circuit boards. Most of the enemies you encounter are the good old Quake standbys like Ogres and Death Knights, new enemies are introduced, but they do so slowly, there are only 3 in total and 2 of them only appear after the second half of episode 2. The first new enemies are kamikaze troopers ripped directly from Serious Sam, exploding on contact with the player and accordingly making them high priority targets, they can often be very frustrating based on some spawn decisions. Next are these big W40K Ogryn like brutes that are basically upgraded Ogres, shooting three grenades at once, having a lot more health and especially dangerous melee attacks, they basically occupy a role of being a buffed ogre in how they are used. Finally you have these flying crystal enemies that shoot fast and damaging crystal projectiles from a long range, and when they take fatal damage shoot themselves at the player with a slightly homing explosive attack. All of these enemies can be very dangerous but generally it didn't feel like the Mod revolves around new enemies in the way that other ones can. There's also unique bosses at the end of each episode but I'll leave them up for people to find out.

There are 2 new weapons, one of them is a triple shotgun which I've seen show up before (albeit with slightly different mechanics) in stuff like Arcane Dimensions, it's essentially just another tier to the regular shotguns, mostly to help the player handle the increased enemy count. More interesting is the Crystal Lance, a trident that fires long range energy blasts and uses energy cell ammo like the the Tunderbolt, this is one of the better custom weapons I've ever used in Quake, its basically just a railgun similar to the later games but it has a lot of use as a power weapon that lets you pick off enemies from a range in a way that wasn't really possible with other weapons and which has a lot of utility in Dwell's huge maps. It slots right into the arsenal in a way that I never really felt the new weapons from (say) the two mission packs ever did, and its nice to have another use for the cells since they were the only ammo type in vanilla quake with only one weapon associated.

The most impactful, and unexpected, addition that really made a difference playing the game were the new powerups. Just generally the mappers show a rock solid instinct for powerups, knowing where to put all of the usual ones like Quad Damage or Invulnerability to really feel useful while also feeling organic, particularly helped by well balanced use of secrets. But to add to those in Vanilla Quake they have three new ones, Haste (which makes you a bit faster and causes you to fire your weapons twice as fast), Berserk (which hugely buffs your melee attack and gives you significant damage resistance) and Diving Gear(which lets you swim for much longer than normal and makes you faster in the water). I was really surprised by how much these ended up making a difference, they were actually more impactful on the experience than the new enemies or weapons, haste is sort of a less powerful but more liberally used version of Quad Damage in the sense that it allows you to considerably augment your damage output for a period (though its runs out very quickly and absolutely chews through ammo, so you have to really tactical with it), in some situations you can combine it with Quad Damage to go absolutely hog wild. Berserk works really well in the scenarios that are built for it, much like Doom's Berserk it lets you save on ammo but unlike Doom's Berserk the increase in attack speed and extra damage resistance absolutely turns you into a killing machine even in situations surrounded by high level enemies, you can basically make use of it to tear through groups (particularly knights) if you can weave through ranged attacks or just facetank them if you have enough health and armour, both Haste and Berserk are great for achieving that sense of just going nuts for a little while that makes Quad Damage such a good powerup, and the fact that all of these powerups can be combined together is very much made use of in many maps. The Diving Gear is more of a meta thing dependent on broader map design, but again its very cleverly used, mostly because episode 2 is entirely built around water and so proper use of the power quickly becomes crucial as you explore deep waterways, I'll touch on that a bit later. Again, the use of powerups in Dwell is on a level I've never really seen before, the powerups in the mission packs were clunky and weak in comparison and even in stuff like Arcane Dimensions I feel like whatever comparable stuff people came up with weren't really that meaningful. Even some of the weaker default powerups like the Ring of Shadows have situations where the mappers carefully thought out scenarios that get the most utility out of them that I've never seen anywhere else, certainly not any of the official content. It helps as well that Dwell uses and is built around Copper, which rebalances the core Quake combat and items to make things more interesting.

But enough of this talk about new mechanics, the real attraction are the maps. As I said there are two episodes so far with their own unique themes, episode one is called The Shifting Domain and its main gimmick is that you have Egyptian themed levels that get progressively more Lovecraftian and surreal as you move through it, starting off with a fairly basic pyramids and tombs and culminating in Eldrich voids with unholy abominations and rivers of blood, that kind of thing. Episode one is certainly weaker than episode two and you can see a lot of shakiness as they were hashing out what they want to do with the whole project. I think the Egyptian theme is well trodden territory in Doom and Quake mods by now and the first few levels don't put their best foot forward, being a bit too simplistic and bland initially. But it does rapidly get better, although having said that I think that level 7 can be far too much of a slog with a lot of platforming and an overly spread out and confusing overall design. One thing that becomes apparent in this episode is that the creators really love bottomless voids that don't kill you if you fall in but teleport you back to the start after taking off a chunk of health. Some of the visual elements later on in this episode I really like, you see all of this corrupted flesh extruding out of the temple structures and general sense that the whole place is being rotted by some horrific force, and everything really comes to a head with the episode boss which was very impressive compared to what I've usually seen in Quake. The levels here have a bit of an odd structure, compared to other Quake packs I've played like Alkaline and AD, there's less of a sense that you are exploring through these tricky, strange and arcane locales, there's more a feeling that you are moving from one hectic combat arena to the next, since this is also the point when the Kamikaze enemies are introduced I think you can really see the Serious Sam influence in particular. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, of course Quake is a shooter, with very good combat, and at least one of these maps built around pure relentless combat is in my top 5, but especially with map 2 I'm a bit iffy about whether this was a good idea, as I said it doesn't have a strong start when you consider how high quality the rest of the experience is, the first two maps had me feeling a bit bored to start things off, being a bland tech base and a bland combination of square arenas respectively. The secret level that you find in the episode is quite an interesting preview of things to come in episode 2 and explore some of the watery and exploratory themes, albeit in a less well refined manner, meanwhile the secret level you find in the hub area after episode one is completed is probably the most intense of the arena-esque pure combat experiences with minimum clutter to get in the way of that. I don't mean to be too negative about episode one, there are some absolutely rock solid levels, but you can how much things improved between here and episode two for sure, the creators also went back and improved a lot of things in episode one after releasing episode two, including the boss fight which I believe was previously just one of the bosses from Dissolution of Eternity in the final regular level as opposed to an entirely unique boss in its own dedicated level.

Episode two is The Sunken City and this where I think things really take off. As the name might imply you spend most of it running through these vaguely Mesoamerican ruins with a very strong emphasis on water (explicitly Mesoamerican in the case of the secret level). And I mean a very strong emphasis on water, most of the maps in this episode have significant areas where you are exploring fully submerged for long periods. Now, normally when I realize that I'm the middle of the 'water level' in a game my stomach tenses up in anticipation for it being brutally unfun, confusing and punishing, and this being the Quake engine you immediately have flashes of the worst kinds of 90s water levels in the likes of Tomb Raider or Zelda, but I really have to give the mappers credit again for managing to not only pull it off but give me some of the best Quake levels I've ever played while fully playing into the entire water theme. As mentioned above, there's a lot of use of the Diving gear powerup in these levels to give you greater flexibility while submerged and most of these are on a respawn timer, giving you more leeway. There's a lot of water combat (most enemies end up underwater at some point, not just rotfish) and the six degrees of movement results in interesting combat encounters. What really helps though is probably the visuals, as I get onto my top five maps it really becomes apparent but just overall I love the look of this episode with the flowing water, ruins and crystals, its very atmospheric, especially when combined with the music (which is great across both episodes). Something that I really noticed in this episode is that the people making Dwell absolutely love incline jumps and making them key to finding a lot of the secrets, which are generally reasonably hidden and don't feel either too easy to too obnoxious. There's a lot more exploration focus in these levels, but that doesn't suggest the combat has been skimped on, some extremely tough encounters are littered throughout all of them, some of them are so intense they start to be more reminiscent of Doom slaughterwads than anything I'm usually used to playing in Quake, and they prompt similar tactics like heavy use of infighting which otherwise I find I rarely make use of in Quake.

To round things out here are my rankings for the top five best levels, in order of appearance:



1. D1M3 - Under a Funeral Moon: Episode 1 really kicks into high gear with this, its by far the best of the Egyptian theming of the set and the music and cloudy moonlit temple are extremely atmospheric. The level starts off with a bang, you have a quad damage from the word go as you tear through the starting enemies, then it leads into a bit of a catacomb journey with lots of platforming and secrets and smaller encounters before ending in a huge series of arena brawls that introduce the kamikazes. This part of the map is probably the best of the heavy combat arena orientated levels in the first episode, with lots of novel enemy setups and the first of use of the Berserk powerup, but there's lots of additional clever elements, my favourites are one of the secrets that requires you be quick on the draw to shoot red switches revealed by panels that close quickly and the other is an unusual combat challenge in the major arena where you have to stay on top of a small roof and kill the waves of incoming enemies without falling off, its very hard but you get an armour and quad damage for the final encounter if you succeed.




2. D1M8 - Prescience Overload: The last level in episode 1 before the boss, this is the most elaborate and difficult one so far with the most gruelling combat encounters as well, a kind of forsaken temple floating in a dark void it certainly looks the part, and is filled to the brim with secrets, a lot of which require careful platforming over the numerous bottomless pits. Its a very dense level and packs a lot into a space that's not particularly large but certainly feels like a massive achievement to get through it, every corner is hiding some punishing ambush from a bunch of zombies, ogres or vores, every bit of progress seems to result in even more deadly enemies being vomitted back into rooms you previously cleared, and if you have a keen eye you can hoover up powerups and pickups from well hidden but not bullshit hard secrets to give you that fighting edge. I always like maps that have a lot of vertical space and this is no exception, most of the map sees you fighting your way upward to get to grips with enemies above you and demands that you have careful footwork to avoid falling to a lower, more dangerous position or worse, right into the void. The feeling of risk is very strong with lots of points where you are tempted to push as far as possible into a dangerous situation to get the most possible out of a Quad damage or grab a crucial bonus, or make a dangerous jump into what might be a secret or even rocket jump into an area you aren't even sure the developer intends that you reach. The final fight is a gigantic bloody crush of basically every enemy cramming into the final arena, with Ogres and Vores blasting you from side platforms and Knights and Shamblars getting to grips with you up close, as you try to exploit the large amount of health, armour and powerups to blast your way through all of it. A really solid and intimidating final level for this episode that leads into an impressive boss fight in its own right.




3. D2M4 - That We Should Voyage So Far: So, in my previous review for Alkaline I mentioned that my favourite level of that set, and one of my favourite quake levels ever, was Dancing in the Golden Sun by Bal. Interestingly, one of my other favourite Quake levels ever is Arcane Dimensions's Tears of the False God, also by Bal. As luck would have it, That We Should Voyage So Far is another one of my favourite Quake levels ever, and what do you know, its also by Bal! This loving guy is an absolute machine, its just hit after hit with him, every time one of his set piece levels are featured in one of these projects it ends up being one of the best things I've ever played with the perfect combination of evocative, thickly atmospheric, downright beautiful visuals that makes me forget at times I'm playing Quake and not some kind of art game, and almost perfectly tailored map design and encounter design. I couldn't come up with a real complaint about these maps if you held a gun to my head, its almost unfair to anyone else. Voyage is just another masterpiece, the whole level is this set within an island and you can swim around the whole thing, which is recommended so you find the various goodies and secrets scattered in out of the way islets and caves. Off the bat it gives this great sense of freedom, that you can get to everything you can see, and it really takes that idea and runs with it, stuffing in bonuses and extra ammo in every corner and easter eggs in the more unlikely places you can get to with a bit of gumption. It even has access to this episode's secret level. The map has a very pleasing combination of compactness with that sense of freedom, the actual area you are in is fairly small and everything leads back around to a central aisle that spawns in more encounters as you collect and use the keys with a lot of slanted pillars giving a weird sense of space along with the large pools of water. The combat isn't too harsh either, this is the map that first makes extensive use of the crystal enemies and there are loads of ogres, fiends and shamblers, but it also gets balanced out by very liberal use of haste, quad damage and the Crystal Lance. Its more about the vibe and feel of the level, the twilight setting at the ends of the earth, strange crystalline architecture (and some enemies), strange alien looking statues and sombre music really gives it this haunting sense that you're in the midst of the ruins of some long forgotten, unknowable civilization. Its the Lovecraftian elements played more tragically than I've really seen Quake go for before, just absolute perfection.




4. D2M6 - The Waters Below While That We Should Voyage So Far felt sort of melancholic and a bit sad moreso than what you usually get in Quake, The Waters Below feels like a very deliberate attempt to hit upon the unnerving and disconcerting elements of Quake's Lovecraftian tone, there's pervading sense of 'wrongness' about the whole place, an overwhelming idea that something is very much not right and you've stumbled into something you should not have. A lot of this comes from the drowned feel of the map, even compared to the other ones in this episode so far its completely inundated and there's a particularly long underwater section where the Oxygen tanks you need to make it through respawn very slowly, making it feel even more desperate as you are trying to get through what looks like a place people used to live, filled with zombies but completely underwater. This first section of the map really feels run down, the architecture is in a state of collapse, everything is flooded, doors are blocked off crudely with wooden panels, wooden bridges are half destroyed, and there's overgrown plants everywhere. Interestingly, one of the areas you need to reach so that you can progress has almost the same layout as the starting area in Episode one's secret map, which was meant to be a presage of this episode, except in this area its monitored by a creepy, Old one-esque statue that pulls you in against your will and forces you to jump into a large pool filled with more lovecraftian entities. As you make it through you are then teleported to the second half of the map, totally different from the cramped temple of the first, being a misty, ruined town overlooking cavernous drops leading to a ruined castle. The atmosphere gets even thicker, there's a lot of environmental storytelling for Quake, the town seems to have constructed a rickety, desperate looking dam to hold back the waters, but its on the verge of collapse, springing leaks everywhere and only kept up by wooden beams. The central castle is completely overgrown, forcing you to find a way around the front door, strange fish heads underwater spawn dozens of rotfish if you get too close, strange glowing crystals spawn in even more enemies if you go near them and the omnipresent alien statues are overlooking the entire village. The soundtrack tops everything off, just this incredibly effective score at establishing the whole level as off and hostile, overall its just a fantastically atmospheric map, so thick you can cut it with a knife. I don't know if I can say it has that much more going for it, the combat didn't stand out to me too much although it could be quite punishing, but I really can't fault the sense of tone and dread it establishes as you make your way through it.




5. D2M8 - Abyss of the Troglodytes: So, from what I've read around some of the community comments on Dwell, I know Abyss of the Troglodytes is a very controversial map. I get it, the scale is almost unbelievable, 1155 enemies, and 60 secrets, 60. Pagb666's mostly blind playthrough is more than 2 hours long, and he only got 19 secrets. I've never played a Quake map this elaborate and gigantic before, it feels like Mazu wanted to cram in everything possible into it, it touches upon almost everything I can think of that you can put into a quake map between the vast array of combat encounters with every enemy and powerup used in all kinds of different ways, platforming out the wazoo to get to all of the secrets, including much more complicated movement tricks than I've seen in other maps that rely on combining Dwell's aforementioned penchant for incline assisted jumps with extreme speed to go flying all over the central chamber if you can nail it down, puzzles of all kinds that you have to figure out to find more secrets or progress normally (including a very frustrating pillar puzzle), sequences of traps that really demand that your platforming and quick response combat abilities are sharp and ready, exploration including lots of underwater exploration to get through such a cavernous level, and even collectible elements which I know that Mazu loves and which opens up more options and benefits for the player if they can find all of the orb switches hidden throughout the level. The map has enough content that if you divided it into three, the three distinct sections made out of the main routes to get the keys would themselves be huge and difficult maps for any Quake player to approach. gently caress, you could probably make an entire episode out of this map if you split it up right. Usually I'd hate this kind of map, and I know from reading various comments that a lot of people do, its interesting that Mazu also created Overengineering Mania in Alkaline which I found I got sick of very quickly, but the funny thing is that I kind of love Abyss, it really clicked for me in a way that I did not expect going into it.

I think a lot of it boils down the fact that it kind of earns its pure audacity, there is so much variety that it never grows stale. Every section is filled with unique challenges and gimmicks, the fights can be tough as nails but as I mentioned before are laid out in sections almost akin to a Doom slaughtermap where you can run laps around the arena at high speed and see everything descend into infighting. The creativity astounds me, one section starts off with the best use of the Ring of Shadows I've seen in a Quake map, essentially creating a genuine stealth section which is super rare in Quake as you weave between way too many Shamblers than you could hope to take on, going from ring to ring until you get to a massive falling crusher you can drop on top of them and kill them instantly. Later on you find a section that has a relentless combat arena and a portal that transports you into what looks like the same arena except flipped upside down, and even more enemies, both 'sides' of this arena have their secrets that work in tandem to reveal a very odd area. Then there's one of the most complex trap sequences I've ever seen in a quake map, starting off with an exploding bridge, dropping the player down into a passage where a moving spiked wall forces the player to jump through an area packed with Kamikazes and Vores, avoiding lava pits and nail shooters all the way, until you get to an area surrounded by ogres with a rotating nail shooter right in the middle forcing to duck and weave to not get hit by the ludicrous amount of projectiles, at which point you can shoot some switches to turn off the nails, but that causes the ceiling to collapse down on you and, if you successfully avoided that, a bunch of tetris blocks to drop down to give a route up to the top of the passage after some tricky platforming, at which point you can finally get the key after that gauntlet.

I'm really losing the run of myself talking about this map, there's so many things to touch upon I don't know where to stop and lord knows this post has gotten way too long already. The central area is great as an arena and as a hub to connect together all the different map elements while having some of the hardest platforming I've seen in a Quake level to reach the secrets. The secrets in the map are very well put together, I was able to find 56 out of 60 of them and it was a very fun time thinking about all of the unusual and outside of the box places they could have put them, and almost always your intuition pays off. The collectible orb switches that lead to bonus rooms were a particularly good idea, they are all well hidden but you get hints on how to reach them in the bonus area which are much appreciated, and the stuff they unlock can be lifesaving powerups or pickups to keep you going through this marathon of a map. I really feel Mazu learned a lot from Overengineering Mania's 50 circuit boards being too tedious to collect without giving you enough in return, the increasing rewards for finding the orbs is great incentive to keep looking and feeling like you are making progress. Even the water sections felt fitting and unobtrusive, this is the water episode after all. I can't really say that Abyss of the Troglodytes is the perfect map by any means, certainly Bal's offerings will always have a finesse that's not quite present here, but dammit, I kind of love this and just the scale of it demands a certain respect overall, its definitely earned a spot in the top five for me, maybe the top spot, but its a close run thing.


And, in the interest of keeping things consistent, the worst map in the set:



Dwell DM2 - Weeping Shades of indigo: I actually had a bit of a hard time deciding Dwell's worst map, that sounds like an insult but I don't intend it to be, there's not really any standout terrible maps that I just loathe in the way that I might for other projects, its just a few maps that either outstay their welcome (D1M7 - Darkstar Triumvirate) are a bit confusing to navigate while otherwise boring (D2M1 - Technomagical Transfusion) or just feel sloppy and not well put together in terms of flow, focus or atmosphere (D2M7 - Blessed Dwellings in the Dark). None of them are truly bad, so I'm going to give this spot to Weeping Shades of Indigo because it just made barely any impression on me at all. The map feels weirdly out of place, its an episode 2 secret level but it returns to the Egyptian theme except with the episode 2 crystal enemies who look and feel out of place. Its mostly just a rough and hard combat gauntlet without many surprises beyond some bruising, frustrating combat, while also being very short and kind of ugly. Just really nothing to write home about.


So that's about all I wanted to say about Dwell. I'm sorry if this review went overlong and outstayed its welcome but I really found myself engrossed and fascinated by the whole experience and had a lot more to say than I expected. Dwell really is something special so far, I'm desperately waiting for the next episode and if they can keep it up at this level of quality it will probably be the best Quake content out there. Only thing is, probably don't have another map as long as Abyss of the Troglodytes, as much as I enjoyed it, a map of that scale will probably only work once for a project like this and its probably best to keep things more restrained for the future.

Thanks very much for posting a write-up - this looks amazing!!!!

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004
On that note, a big new Quake mapset release: Remix Jam, taking 30 multiplayer maps from gaming history (with sources as varied as Unreal Tournament, Valorant and, uh, Rayman M) and reinterpreting as single-player Copper maps.

koren
Sep 7, 2003

Warms my heart to see when everything clicks into place and yet another person get converted to a fan of one of Mazu's giant maps. I'd recommend smej2map5 is still my favourite and I think smej2 is an experience you probably won't forget either way.

Bishop Beo
Jul 3, 2009

Barudak posted:

Fresh Supply is fine and if you absolutely, positutely must play your FPS games on hard without ever having played them before do not start Blood on Episode 1 as the first 2 levels of that are bar none the hardest single stretch in the game unless you are pitchfork starting every map.

Yeah starting out on Lightly Broiled and it seems like a decent amount of challenge without being unfair. Man the shotgun and TNT in this game are satisfying to use!

Convex
Aug 19, 2010

Bishop Beo posted:

Yeah starting out on Lightly Broiled and it seems like a decent amount of challenge without being unfair. Man the shotgun and TNT in this game are satisfying to use!

:hellyeah:

Enjoy playing one of the best games ever made!

koren
Sep 7, 2003

The Kins posted:

On that note, a big new Quake mapset release: Remix Jam, taking 30 multiplayer maps from gaming history (with sources as varied as Unreal Tournament, Valorant and, uh, Rayman M) and reinterpreting as single-player Copper maps.



Just played through 20 maps of this and the quality level across the board is absurdly high. Everybody who likes quake should get on this asap.

An Actual Princess
Dec 23, 2006

Bishop Beo posted:

Yeah starting out on Lightly Broiled and it seems like a decent amount of challenge without being unfair. Man the shotgun and TNT in this game are satisfying to use!

the tnt is one of the best fps weapons of all time. feels absolutely incredible to master it

chocolateTHUNDER
Jul 19, 2008

GIVE ME ALL YOUR FREE AGENTS

ALL OF THEM

The Kins posted:

On that note, a big new Quake mapset release: Remix Jam, taking 30 multiplayer maps from gaming history (with sources as varied as Unreal Tournament, Valorant and, uh, Rayman M) and reinterpreting as single-player Copper maps.



This sounds like a really cool idea. I guess I'll play this next after I wrap up Metro Exodus (not an old fps I know).

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

The Kins posted:

On that note, a big new Quake mapset release: Remix Jam, taking 30 multiplayer maps from gaming history (with sources as varied as Unreal Tournament, Valorant and, uh, Rayman M) and reinterpreting as single-player Copper maps.



Any Team Fortress maps in this?

Tim Thomas
Feb 12, 2008
breakdancin the night away
it would absolutely punish if rainbow road was playable in quake rally

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch
Is that good or bad

NoneMoreNegative
Jul 20, 2000
GOTH FASCISTIC
PAIN
MASTER




shit wizard dad

I would have guessed a PDF of this would be up on Archive.org, but no joy so far.









Of course, Duke says gently caress Nazis and Haters



Quantum of Phallus
Dec 27, 2010

Duke is so based

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
That's a Death Rally reference, isn't it? poo poo, I forgot about Death Rally.

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?
I love the cutesy names they had for dm back in the day. Dukematch, Bloodbath. Uh, well I guess it's just those 2

Bumhead
Sep 26, 2022

My copy of Lan Party arrived today.

Not properly dived into it yet but just a quick glance at some of the pictures had me doing some genuine, real life LOL's and guffaws.

I'm also extremely sad? Some of these photos are amazingly funny to look at but loving hell.. this is some time capsule. I've not read any of the stories or anecdotes yet but these photos are an incredible snapshot of time. Just pages and pages of dudes just chilling and living their best life. There's something really personal about this curated collection of photos and seeing this very specific moment. I mean these are the kinds of pictures nobody keeps in their family albums or precious memories box but, full credit to them, some people photographed and then cherished this poo poo.

I wasn't fortunate enough to do any big scale LAN parties but seeing all these CRT's, pizza boxes, empty cans and nu-metal rear end dress sense is taking me right back to time spent with buddies back in the day. What a gut punch, but I suspect this is an easy recommendation for this thread.

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Jehde
Apr 21, 2010

What's the current goto sourceport(s) for Quake?

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