Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

tagesschau: Sep 1, 2006; Guten Abend, meine Damen und Herren.

qhat posted:

Yeah but how many of those people will pay it off at once?

I had mine essentially paid off within a year of buying my car. And if interest rates had been higher, I probably would have been more aggressive about paying it off. But

tagesschau posted:

sometimes it seems like I'm a drat fool for living within my means when half the country follows the Leeroy Jenkins school of personal finance

# ? Feb 5, 2024 21:20

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# ? Jun 12, 2024 06:30

jettisonedstuff: Apr 9, 2006

Wait, do some of you have some sort of moral issue with the idea of people borrowing money to buy things?

# ? Feb 5, 2024 22:08

qhat: Jul 6, 2015

jettisonedstuff posted:

Wait, do some of you have some sort of moral issue with the idea of people borrowing money to buy things?

What a dumb take. Almost like you're asserting there's no such thing as predatory lending.

It's a problem when getting finance on a car is a better deal than paying for the thing upfront in cash. This is never actually to the advantage of the consumer.

# ? Feb 5, 2024 22:16

jettisonedstuff: Apr 9, 2006

qhat posted:

What a dumb take. Almost like you're asserting there's no such thing as predatory lending.

It's a problem when getting finance on a car is a better deal than paying for the thing in cash. This is never to the advantage of the consumer.

It's a simple question, not a take. And whether financing is a better deal than paying for something in cash depends on the terms of the financing.

# ? Feb 5, 2024 22:19

qhat: Jul 6, 2015

You do understand that loose lending like this materially affects the price of the thing you are financing? If financing wasn't being pushed so hard onto the consumer through "incentives" like a graciously "reduced" price, perhaps the car wouldn't be actually selling at all for that price.

# ? Feb 5, 2024 22:22

qhat: Jul 6, 2015

Like it doesn't take a doctorate in economics to understand that people don't treat credit as real money in this country, and that it is much easier to crank up the price of the asset knowing full well that the hivemind of Canadians is "as long as I have credit I have money". It gets even better when lenders are literally paying you thousands to push their loans onto consumers, meaning you're incentivized to turn down people who don't want to get into debt, and instead sell to people to trap them into loans you're fully aware they might default on.

And yeah you could pay it off at once; most people don't. Even if you do, you'll get blacklisted by the dealership, if that matters to you at all.

# ? Feb 5, 2024 22:29

Hubbert: Mar 25, 2007; At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

tagesschau posted:

[CDN debt thread] following the Leeroy Jenkins school of personal finance

# ? Feb 5, 2024 23:25

020524: Feb 6, 2024

tagesschau posted:

the Leeroy Jenkins school of personal finance

# ? Feb 6, 2024 01:40

Lead out in cuffs: Sep 18, 2012; "That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."

Baronjutter posted:

Another thing I'm trying to bully Ravi into doing provincially is close some loopholes on leases. My friend rented a cheap 2br apartment for like 10 years with his girlfriend at the time. They broke up and he moved out while my friend stayed behind because this 2br was still way cheaper than being a fresh tenant at any victoria 1br. landlord though could technically evict my friend because apparently if 1 person on the lease leaves, it voids the lease and it's up to the landlord to renegotiate and thus bump up the rent to current market rates (would double his rent). So now, because they're still on good terms, his ex will come by now and again to make a show to the landlord and pretend they're both still living there. This seems like an absolutely insane loophole. If someone on the lease leaves and the remaining person can still pay, landlord should not have any special avenues to evict or change rent.

Yeah this happened to a friend of mine too. Roommate graduated and moved out; boyfriend moved in; landlord bumped up their rent by $1K/month. All totally legal within the current RTA.

# ? Feb 6, 2024 05:03

yippee cahier: Mar 28, 2005

Baronjutter posted:

FSR limits

Nothing will ever be as bizarre as seeing the sacred cow of our ubiquitous laws against building too much housing going unscathed this far into the housing crisis.

# ? Feb 6, 2024 07:27

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

We're currently quibbling over our housing targets as to which growth rate we should consider asking cities to upzone enough capacity to handle. Various sources say anywhere between 1 and 2%. So we should simply plan for 2% so we're fully covered right? Like if not enough people move here, that's fine developers will just build less housing. Nope. We need to target exactly 1.5% as a compromise. Compromise with what? Numbers. Big number bad, scary. Too much housing. Housing bad.

# ? Feb 6, 2024 08:15

jettisonedstuff: Apr 9, 2006

qhat posted:

You do understand that loose lending like this materially affects the price of the thing you are financing? If financing wasn't being pushed so hard onto the consumer through "incentives" like a graciously "reduced" price, perhaps the car wouldn't be actually selling at all for that price.

You're complaining that people who don't have (or don't feel like selling their existing assets to raise) the cash on hand can agree to a schedule of payments with a higher present value than the amount you're willing to pay up front and outbid you. No poo poo that increases the price, that's what happens when you have more potential buyers. I don't see what the problem is. Not all loans are predatory and the fact that you feel uncomfortable borrowing money doesn't make it immoral or dangerous.

# ? Feb 6, 2024 22:49

qhat: Jul 6, 2015

When having the cash or assets to pay for the thing upfront not only stops being an advantage in negotiations but actually becomes a disadvantage, then you have a problem.

Like wow gee wizz where have we seen this before

# ? Feb 7, 2024 00:00

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

jettisonedstuff posted:

You're complaining that people who don't have (or don't feel like selling their existing assets to raise) the cash on hand can agree to a schedule of payments with a higher present value than the amount you're willing to pay up front and outbid you. No poo poo that increases the price, that's what happens when you have more potential buyers. I don't see what the problem is. Not all loans are predatory and the fact that you feel uncomfortable borrowing money doesn't make it immoral or dangerous.

You are loving stupid, and I think you should know that. The complaint isn't that offering credit increases prices, it's that certain dealerships are refusing cash offers for the "same price" because they artificially lower the asking price of their vehicles, and make up the difference on the loans that they offer and derive benefit from. They would also, presumably, refuse offers if you got financing independently from the dealership. That ought to be forbidden, or at least made explicit, as part of maintaining a well-regulated free market.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Feb 7, 2024 01:17

jettisonedstuff: Apr 9, 2006

PT6A posted:

You are loving stupid, and I think you should know that. The complaint isn't that offering credit increases prices, it's that certain dealerships are refusing cash offers for the "same price" because they artificially lower the asking price of their vehicles, and make up the difference on the loans that they offer and derive benefit from. They would also, presumably, refuse offers if you got financing independently from the dealership. That ought to be forbidden, or at least made explicit, as part of maintaining a well-regulated free market.

Flesh this out for me, if you please. I'd like a more in-depth explanation, since I'm so stupid.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 04:55

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

jettisonedstuff posted:

Flesh this out for me, if you please. I'd like a more in-depth explanation, since I'm so stupid.

Okay. A dealership offers a car with an MSRP of $30,000. But because that's just MSRP, they aren't obligated to sell it for that. I walk in and offer $30,000 cash, and they decline it. Another person walks in, they sell it for $29,000 after "haggling" with dealer financing, because they know they will make, for argument's sake, $3,000 off the financing alone, and they sell it for "$29,000," because what they really planned to make off the car was $32,000 and they weren't going to accept less.

That's bullshit, it's a scam.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 05:32

jettisonedstuff: Apr 9, 2006

Who is the one being scammed?

# ? Feb 7, 2024 05:45

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

jettisonedstuff posted:

Who is the one being scammed?

Anyone being advertised the $30,000 price, and the person who ends up buying it because they could've secured a better loan from other sources not directly connected to the transaction.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 05:51

jettisonedstuff: Apr 9, 2006

PT6A posted:

Anyone being advertised the $30,000 price, and the person who ends up buying it because they could've secured a better loan from other sources not directly connected to the transaction.

I think I've found the source of your confusion here: The buyer and dealer are not negotiating the terms on which the buyer will pay some fixed present value price for the car, they are negotiating the price of the car.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 06:49

qhat: Jul 6, 2015

Just ban reprisals for paying the loan off immediately imo, that�ll probably be enough to stop this bullshit in its tracks. You don�t let your customer sign an open agreement and then punish for adhering to the terms of the agreement.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 07:35

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

financing and sales should be separate operations with no kickbacks flowing back to the dealer. not claiming it's a monopolistic but it's anticompetitive and creates perverse incentives.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 10:57

a primate: Jun 2, 2010

qhat posted:

Just ban reprisals for paying the loan off immediately imo, that�ll probably be enough to stop this bullshit in its tracks. You don�t let your customer sign an open agreement and then punish for adhering to the terms of the agreement.

I bought a car recently (financed) and was able to pay off as much as I want. I think the cost of borrowing is baked into the sale price so it doesn�t matter to them how fast it�s paid.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 13:21

Mr. Apollo: Nov 8, 2000

a primate posted:

I bought a car recently (financed) and was able to pay off as much as I want. I think the cost of borrowing is baked into the sale price so it doesn�t matter to them how fast it�s paid.

If you finance through the manufacturer, yes. Generally, the manufacturers can offer the best financing rates. I bought a car a couple of years ago, and after promotions, I was able to get a 0.90% financing rate. I called around to a few banks and credit unions and they all said they couldn�t come close to that.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 13:41

Fidelitious: Apr 17, 2018; MY BIRTH CRY WILL BE THE SOUND OF EVERY WALLET ON THIS PLANET OPENING IN UNISON.

qhat posted:

Just ban reprisals for paying the loan off immediately imo, that�ll probably be enough to stop this bullshit in its tracks. You don�t let your customer sign an open agreement and then punish for adhering to the terms of the agreement.

Is this actually a thing? I'm not exactly plugged in to the car world having personally bought a car exactly once.

My understanding is that every car loan in Canada is open, or at least I've never heard of a closed one. We took financing just so we could spread the purchase out a bit but I'm pretty sure we paid it off in well under a year.
I'm sure the dealership doesn't want you to do that as they probably lose some kind of financing kickback but they can't stop you and I can't imagine what sort of reprisal there could be.

You already have the car and own it at that point, what are they going to do? Banning you from the dealership sounds like a win for the buyer to me.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 14:59

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

the kickback is significant ($500 to $2000)

it really hurts used car buyers who may be able to secure better financing from their banks since the total amounts involved are relatively low (or were before recently) so this isn't just a "gently caress the rich" thing

forced financing got a lot worse since covid kicked off as dealerships now try to maximize profit per car due to low supplies

# ? Feb 7, 2024 15:10

Mr. Apollo: Nov 8, 2000

Cold on a Cob posted:

the kickback is significant ($500 to $2000)

it really hurts used car buyers who may be able to secure better financing from their banks since the total amounts involved are relatively low (or were before recently) so this isn't just a "gently caress the rich" thing

forced financing got a lot worse since covid kicked off as dealerships now try to maximize profit per car due to low supplies

Also, dealerships buying cars and then putting them back up for sale as used so they can charge over MSRP for them. I see lots of ads for cars now with "call for pricing".

# ? Feb 7, 2024 16:26

Purgatory Glory: Feb 20, 2005

Here's a car YouTube video that gets into the financing aspect of getting s lower price. It's the states, but I assume the same stuff happens in Canada too:
https://youtu.be/gVJUakASz0M?si=3M4iMBimw1ZdxhTt

# ? Feb 7, 2024 16:35

Math You: Oct 27, 2010; So put your faith
in more than steel

I bought a van recently and just asked them at what point they got their kickback from the bank. I just closed it off after that time.
They had otherwise done pretty okay by me, securing price protection from the manufacturer when the price jumped like 12% from 2022 when I ordered it to 2023 when I received it. They also took cash off the hood and increased my trade in a bit to compensate for the jump in rates. Otherwise I would have just hosed them, but you reap what you sow which in this case was being upfront and decent.

That's really what I don't get about the dealers who are flipping cars, installing bullshit and otherwise screwing with people who are trying to buy a car under duress. Next time they are in a slump and they are sitting on inventory, people will remember and take their business elsewhere.

Math You fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Feb 8, 2024

# ? Feb 8, 2024 13:38

RBC: Nov 23, 2007; IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888

More great landlord schadenfreude https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/investors-bankruptcy-protection-1.7108994

quote:

Private jets, yachts and parties: Ontario landlords flaunted lavish lifestyle as business began to crumble
Former child actor Robby Clark heads a web of corporations that owe $144M, under bankruptcy protection

As his real estate empire showed signs of trouble, a robed Robby Clark appeared in a promotional video, standing at the bow of a yacht, arms raised to the sky as a camera circled overhead.

"You can stick me in the desert with nothing and I'm going to come out owning the desert," Clark is heard saying at another point in the three-minute video.

It was posted to several Instagram accounts like "billonaireclassy" in March 2022 and shows the former YTV child actor- turned-real estate investor living a life of luxury.

He's shown getting into sports cars and relaxing in private jets, smiling next to famous rappers like Kanye West and Rick Ross, and taking in the view from a California mansion.

Maps of Sault Ste. Marie and Sudbury appear � they're among the Ontario communities where he owned an estimated 800 properties and thousands of tenants lived.

"I'm going to have a billion dollars in holdings," Clark says.

Former YTV child actor Robby Clark starred in this promotional video talking about his business success, which was posted to Instagram in March 2022.
Clark's business partners from the Hamilton area � Dylan Suitor, Ryan Molony and Aruba Butt � also make appearances.

In the video, Molony and Suitor dance with Clark in nightclubs, and Suitor and Clark take selfies on the sidelines of an NFL game. Butt and Clark stand side by side on the yacht, wearing designer robes and raising their matching tumblers to the camera.

"Ultimately if you're going to work with lenders, and we work with a lot of private lenders on acquisitions, they gotta know you know what you're doing," Clark says in the video.

But behind the scenes, Clark's business, SID Developments, and 11 connected corporations owned by Molony, Suitor and Butt had taken on millions of dollars in debt and were struggling to keep up with payments to lenders, according to documents filed with the Ontario Superior Court of Justice.

Meanwhile, rundown properties sat vacant, and utility bills, property taxes and contractors went unpaid.

By early 2024, the corporations had only $100,000 in the bank and owed $144 million to lenders, faced dozens of lawsuits from creditors and received court-ordered bankruptcy protection.

Since CBC Hamilton reported on the court proceedings last week, Clark, Suitor, Molony and Butt have made many of their social media accounts private, and have not responded to requests for comment.

But court documents and interviews with experts help explain how they became one of the largest holders of residential real estate in Ontario, and now are on the verge of losing it all.

Hamilton mortgage broker arranged many loans
This isn't the first time Clark has faced financial trouble.

He lost the money he earned from acting as a child because of "a lack of financial education," Clark told YouTuber David Meltzer in a 2021 video.

Clark declared bankruptcy in 2009 and then started a meal-kit business, which also failed, he said. He then turned to real estate investing, but his credit score "was a joke," so he had to get "other people to sign on the dotted line" when purchasing his first properties.

In recent years, Clark's company � through Butt, Molony and Suitor's corporations � acquired, renovated and leased or sold over 800 properties, mainly single-family homes, fuelled by more than 1,300 loans, the court documents say.

The vast majority came from Hamilton mortgage broker Claire Drage, according to the documents. Through her companies, Windrose Capital and The Lion's Share Group, she brought on private lenders to invest in Butt's, Molony's and Suitor's corporations.

Hamilton-based mortgage broker Claire Drage facilitated the vast majority of loans through her companies, Windrose Capital, and The Lion's Share Group. (Facebook/ClaireDrageTheWindroseGroup)
She provided their corporations with secured mortgage loans, which give lenders collateral if borrowers don't meet their debt obligations, according to the court documents. She also provided them with unsecured promissory notes � loans not tied to any collateral.

Drage did not respond to a request for comment, but said in a Facebook post last October that "our borrower eligibility criteria are rigorously upheld, ensuring sound lending practices."

In one instance, she supplied Suitor's corporation, Interlude, with $23 million in mortgages and another $29 million in promissory notes.

In another, she arranged $6.5 million in mortgages for Butt's corporation, Joint Captain Real Estate. Her son, Sam Drage and daughter-in-law Bronwyn Bullen are shareholders.

She then lent them a further $3 million in promissory notes.

Sam Drage and Bullen did not respond to requests for comment.

Toronto mortgage broker Ron Butler, who is not connected with the case, said the family ties are a conflict of interest that Drage would be required to disclose to investors.

He described the huge number of loans arranged by Drage as "frightening," and said while it's not illegal for mortgage brokers to issue riskier promissory notes, he believes it's improper because it puts lenders in "such a bad position" if something happens to their investment.

"I wouldn't touch them with a 10-foot pole," Butler said of promissory notes.

When the Financial Services Regulatory Authority of Ontario � which governs mortgage brokers � was asked if it is investigating Drage, it said in a statement that it is "thoroughly reviewing related concerns."

Many homes 'unsalvageable': Sault Ste. Marie mayor
Despite generating "significant annual revenues" from rental income and the sale of some properties, the corporations didn't have enough money to make their debt payments, the court documents say.

"I don't keep [any capital] in the accounts," Clark said in the YouTube video from 2021.

By that fall, Clark had begun negotiating selling off about a quarter of their properties to another real estate investment and property management company, Core Developments, chief executive officer Corey Hawtin told CBC Hamilton.

The sale closed in May 2022, but Clark's business continued to default on loans and couldn't find a refinancing option, say the court documents. But as interest rates increased and property values fell, Suitor, Molony and Butt continued to take on new debt, the court documents show.

Patty Vanminnen invested in mortgages for Suitor to buy two Sudbury homes last year, but wasn't made aware of everything else going on, she said in an affidavit as part of the bankruptcy protection proceedings.

"We were not advised by Suitor that these mortgages were being granted as part of a larger enterprise," Vanminnen said, "or that there were hundreds of other lenders being granted mortgages as part of a larger business, or that any of the alleged problems being raised in this proceeding existed."

At the end of the six-month mortgage term, Interlude defaulted on the mortgages, she said.

Vanminnen moved to recoup her money, but then Suitor, Molony and Butt filed for bankruptcy protection. The three now have protection from lawsuits until at least mid-February.

In Sault Ste. Marie, a northern Ontario city of about 73,000, the corporations own about 200 homes, or one per cent of the housing stock, Mayor Matthew Shoemaker told CBC Hamilton. The impact has been overwhelmingly negative.

"I would be happy never to deal with these companies again," he said.

Almost half the homes they own in Sault Ste Marie are in an "unsalvageable" state of disrepair and sit vacant, Shoemaker said. They've fought the city on property standard and fire code violations, and owe $645,000 in unpaid taxes, say the court documents.

"I think our community will be better off if the assets that they own in Sault Ste. Marie end up in the hands of other landlords, preferably local landlords," Shoemaker said.

Hawtin, Core Developments' CEO, said his company is interested in buying more of the properties and limiting the number of tenants displaced.

While Core has a similar business model to SID Developments, owning 550 properties, it has "appropriate debt-equity ratios," said Hawtin.

Tenants could face eviction if homes are sold to people who want to live in them, lenders want them vacated and it's ordered by the court, or if court proceedings drag on and SID Developments can't afford to keep them in a livable condition, Hawtin said.

"I really hope the renters don't get displaced through this process," he said.

# ? Feb 9, 2024 17:56

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

Ah yes remember that sweet sweet affordable housing we had before the pandemic?

quote:

Housing affordability won�t return to pre-pandemic levels in the next two years: Desjardins

Housing affordability in Canada will not return to pre-pandemic levels in the next two years, according to Desjardins� latest housing outlook, even if economic weakness weighs down home buying activity.

�Even with our forecast for a mild recession, an eventual reduction in interest rates and modest price gains, we don�t anticipate a return to pre-pandemic affordability levels within the next two years,� Desjardins principal economist Marc Desormeaux wrote in report released on Tuesday, adding �that primarily reflects a very unaffordable starting point.�

�It�s also important to highlight that while periods of softer economic activity do tend to result in weaker home price growth, they also mean poor income growth. Moreover, while we expect mortgage rates to come down from current levels over the next two years, they won�t likely reach the rock-bottom levels of the pandemic or the early 2010s.�

Economists widely expect that the Bank of Canada is done hiking interest rates, and will begin cutting at some point later this year. But lower borrowing costs won�t necessarily result in improved affordability. Lower interest rates are expected to bring prospective home buyers off the sidelines, resulting in a broad-based rebound in home prices in the second half of 2024 that will carry into 2025, Desjardins said. The strongest rebounds are expected in Toronto and Vancouver, �as they tend to be more responsive to interest rate movements.�

Higher interest rates, strained housing supply and surging population growth has resulted in stubbornly high house prices as well as rising rents in Canada. While governments have recently started to focus on ways to boost housing supply in Canada, Desormeaux noted that new builds take time to come to market.

�We also still expect residential construction activity to slow meaningfully this year across the country,� Desormeaux wrote in his report.

�Labour shortages, very weak homebuilder sentiment, and still-high interest rates and building costs all point to much weaker construction activity going forward.�

While a more severe recession that Desjardins is currently projecting would result in reduced home prices relative to baseline expectations, it would also result in reduced income available to buy a home.

CIBC economist Benjamin Tal said in a research report released on Tuesday that �current recessionary conditions in the Canadian housing market will hardly dent the affordability crisis home buyers and renters currently face.�

�After years of half measures, governments at all levels are showing clear determination to aggressively tackle the issue,� Tal wrote, adding that the recent cap on the number of foreign students allowed into Canada �is a bold move in the right direction but it is insufficient.�

�The housing shortage issue is largely a planning issue with official planning targets falling notably short of actual population growth. You cannot build an adequate supply of housing for population growth that you fail to forecast.�

Tal said that even with the cap on international students, the strong pace of growth of other non-permanent residents entering Canada would keep population growth closer to 2 per cent annualized, which would represent about 6 million additional arrivals over the next seven years. He estimates that Canada would need about 5 million housing units to restore affordability by 2030, well above the 3.5 million units projected by the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC) in 2022.

# ? Feb 9, 2024 19:02

mom and dad fight a lot: Sep 21, 2006; Can't post for 17 days!

RBC posted:

More great landlord schadenfreude https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/investors-bankruptcy-protection-1.7108994

Aruba Butt is either a really unfortunate given name, or a very fortunate porn name.

# ? Feb 9, 2024 19:22

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

It's cool to have labour shortages in the midst of a mild recession and record immigration, definitely a sign of successful policymaking.

# ? Feb 9, 2024 22:55

RealityWarCriminal: Aug 10, 2016

Which YTV show was he on?

Precambrian Video Games posted:

It's cool to have labour shortages in the midst of a mild recession and record immigration, definitely a sign of successful policymaking.

No one wants to work (and be unable to ever afford housing) anymore

# ? Feb 9, 2024 23:34

Truman Peyote: Oct 11, 2006

RealityWarCriminal posted:

Which YTV show was he on?

i also found this to be essential information that was missing and it's something called "the zack files"

# ? Feb 10, 2024 00:01

Mr. Apollo: Nov 8, 2000

RealityWarCriminal posted:

Which YTV show was he on?

No one wants to work (and be unable to ever afford housing) anymore

The Globe & Mail says The Zack Files.

# ? Feb 10, 2024 00:02

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

BC taking a significant step toward a more Vienna style approach of public housing not just being for the very poor and most at risk of homelessness, but also for higher income earners and a broader swathe of society.

quote:

BC Builds will deliver more lower-cost, middle-income rental homes faster

The Province has launched BC Builds to lower construction costs, speed up timelines, and deliver more homes that middle-income people who live and work in B.C. can afford.

BC Builds is a new initiative that leverages government, community and non-profit owned and underused land with $2 billion in low-cost financing and a commitment of $950 million for the overall program.

�Anyone looking for a place to live knows how hard it is � even if you make a decent salary there are not enough rental homes people can afford,� said Premier David Eby. �The private sector alone has not been able to deliver the homes middle-class people in B.C. need. That�s why we�re taking action through BC Builds to deliver lower-cost middle-income homes, faster, so the people who keep our communities working � like teachers, nurses, and construction workers � can find homes they can afford in the communities they love.�

Inflation, high interest rates, and the cost of land and construction have driven up costs and rent in B.C. and across the country, and not enough middle-income housing is being built as a result. Too many homes are out of reach for middle-income earners and people are spending more than half of their household income on housing, pushing people out of communities, and making labour shortages worse.

Supported by grant funding and financing from the B.C. government, through BC Housing, BC Builds is designed to deliver through challenging market conditions to bring down building costs, get more projects started, and build more homes that fit into middle-income budgets. The program will focus on rental housing first with rents reflecting local conditions and determined on a community-by-community basis. This means more households will find below-market rent and spend less than 30% of their income on rent.

�Too many middle-class families are struggling to find a place to live that they can afford, and that�s holding people and our economy back,� said Ravi Kahlon, Minister of Housing. �BC Builds is designed to meet this moment, overcome challenging market conditions, and deliver lower-cost rental homes for the people who deliver the services we rely on, and drive our economy forward � so they can build good lives here and thrive.�

BC Builds works in partnership with non-profits, local governments, First Nations and the development sector to identify available underused land, provide financing and funding, and deliver projects that create more homes and help bring costs more in line with what middle-income households earn.

BC Builds details include:

At least 20% of all BC Builds homes will have rents that are at least 20% below market rate for projects in partnership with non-profits and First Nations.

All BC Builds units have a target of middle-income households spending no more than approximately 30% of their income on rent.

The rents for BC Builds will not exceed market rent for that community, and will in many cases be below.

All households living in BC Builds homes are income tested at move-in.

The income levels vary by community, so homes are within reach for that community�s middle-income households.

BC Builds projects aim to deliver more two-, three- and four-bedroom homes, as many as possible with below-market rents.

Projects owned and operated by non-profit providers mean rents will remain low over time, creating more affordability.

BC Builds uses lower government borrowing rates to offer lower-cost financing and grants to bring down construction costs. The program also works with municipalities, landowners, residential builders and housing operators to move projects from concept to construction within 12 to 18 months, compared to the current of average of three to five years. This will be accomplished by streamlining municipal development processes and by working with landowners, municipalities and residential builders to remove barriers.

BC Builds is designed to grow. In addition to the sites detailed below, thousands of BC Builds homes will continue to move at an expedited pace as projects are approved over the next three years, with some estimated to be under construction as early as summer 2024. More than 20 initial BC Builds sites have been identified on government, First Nations, non-profit and community-owned land. BC Builds is seeking new partners and landowners who want to build housing on underused land or above new community buildings.

The following three projects are examples of BC Builds:

A site owned by the City of North Vancouver, located at 225 East Second St., being developed by non-profit Catalyst, has development approvals for the following:

An 18-storey mass timber building that will include 180 units affordable for middle-income households in North Vancouver.

A minimum of 20% of units must rent at 20% below market, with a goal of delivering even more units at below-market rates.

The building will be located with the North Shore Neighbourhood House, which provides an extensive range of community services, including 37 child care spaces, child-development support programming for 250 children experiencing development delays, food programs, wellness and recreation activities, and youth and seniors� programs.

The project is located beside a new BC Housing project that will deliver 89 affordable homes, set to open in late 2025.

A site owned by Cowichan Tribes, located at 222 Cowichan Way in Duncan on reserve land is being developed by Khowutzun Development LLP. It has development approvals for the following:

A four-to-six-storey wood-frame building, which will include 199 units for middle-income people and families living in the Cowichan Valley.

A minimum of 20% of units must rent at 20% below market, with a goal of delivering even more units at below-market rates.

New governance headquarters for the Cowichan Tribes.

Space for Indigenous businesses.

A site owned by the Town of Gibsons, located at 571 Shaw Rd., is being developed by non-profit New Commons and will be operated by the Sunshine Coast Affordable Housing Society. It has development approvals for the following:

A four-storey wood-frame building, which will contain 33 homes ranging from studios to three-bedroom homes.

A minimum of 20% of units must rent at 20% below market, with a goal of delivering more units at below-market rates.

The building will also include an early child care centre with 24 child care spaces, encompassing a pre-school daycare and before-and-after school care for eight children.

BC Builds is part of the Province�s Homes for People action plan. Launched in spring 2023, the plan builds on historic action to deliver housing since 2017 and sets out further actions to deliver the homes people need faster, while creating more vibrant communities throughout B.C. Actions to speed up the delivery of housing in B.C. include reining in short-term rentals, turning land near transit hubs into housing, increasing small-scale-multi-unit homes, fixing restrictive zoning rules and cutting wait times at the Residential Tenancy Branch among other initiatives.

BC Builds is part of a $19-billion housing investment by the B.C. government. Since 2017, the Province has nearly 78,000 homes that have been delivered or are underway throughout B.C., including more than 750 units in North Vancouver.

# ? Feb 14, 2024 03:11

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

The meaty details.

quote:

At least 20% of all BC Builds homes will have rents that are at least 20% below market rate for projects in partnership with non-profits and First Nations.

All BC Builds units have a target of middle-income households spending no more than approximately 30% of their income on rent.

All households living in BC Builds homes are income tested at move-in.

The income levels vary by community, so homes are within reach for that community�s middle-income households.

BC Builds projects aim to deliver more two-, three- and four-bedroom homes, as many as possible with below market rents.

Projects owned and operated by non-profit providers mean rents will remain low over time, creating more affordability.

As the private sector alone has not been able to build housing within reach for middle income households, BC Builds delivers housing for households at the top end of current BC Housing program income eligibility and beyond, to meet the growing need for more housing for people in these middle-income ranges.

BC Builds picks up where existing BC Housing programs leave off. For example, current eligibility for the Community Housing Fund, which is at the top end of BC Housing programs, is for income ranges from $84,780 for studio/one bedroom and $134,140 for two-plus beds.

BC Builds is designed to create housing that is affordable for household incomes from $84,780 to $131,950 for a studio or one-bedroom home, or $134,410 to $191,910 for a two-bedroom home or larger. This will vary by community, to reflect local incomes. The upper end of the income range will only be applicable in the highest-income communities for three- and four-bedroom units.

Those with lower incomes will be prioritized for below-market units.

People who earn less than their community middle-income range annually will be eligible to live in a BC Builds studio or one-bedroom home. However, they may be better served by BC Housing�s affordable rental housing and rental subsidy programs that serve low- and moderate-income households.
People with income levels above the local thresholds will be ineligible to live in BC Builds housing.

The program will use a formula-based approach to determine the rental rates within communities using an appraisal of purpose-built rental units within the community and the average income range of people currently living in the community.

I expect folks are gonna wish those income numbers were lower, but hey that's construction inflation for ya welp.

# ? Feb 14, 2024 03:16

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

what the gently caress prevented them from doing that like 5 years ago. but okay thats nice i guess

# ? Feb 14, 2024 03:23

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Femtosecond posted:

The meaty details.

I expect folks are gonna wish those income numbers were lower, but hey that's construction inflation for ya welp.

That's a loving understatement. Jesus christ, making a studio that's affordable for someone making $84k per year isn't a great fuckin' accomplishment. Way to aim as low as humanly possible.

"If you make three times the poverty-level salary, perhaps you can afford a lovely, tiny studio."

gently caress these people straight in their assholes.

EDIT: going by the 1/3 rule, that's like $2300/month. That's obscene as a target.

# ? Feb 14, 2024 03:40

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# ? Jun 12, 2024 06:30

RealityWarCriminal: Aug 10, 2016

20% below market rate sounds good until you remember market rate is already highly inflated, like full multiples or what it should be considering wages

# ? Feb 14, 2024 03:42

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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