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I like that about him tbh. Fits the game pretty well
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Feb 7, 2024 17:41
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I feel like the ability to roleplay a completely ordinary and boring protagonist undercuts the somewhat interesting design. I wouldn't even say he feels especially quiet.
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Feb 7, 2024 17:41
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ApplesandOranges posted:It's still early for me but it's still kinda soft-confirming for me that P3 Male MC is the weakest character of the 'modern' Persona protags. It's hard to really get a read on what kind of character he is even though he's appeared in quite a few spin-offs now as his own character (Persona Q/2 and Dancing). Even just going from his social links he can read anywhere from apathetic to sociopathic/enabling. Not that he doesn't have his 'good' option choices, but they just end up making his 'canon' personality harder to read other than just being kinda quiet. The male MC's thing is that he is kind of sad, quiet and depressed, so that follows. He's kind of by definition not very outgoing.
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Feb 7, 2024 17:53
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I really don't get any kind of strong impression, quiet or otherwise, from himImpAtom posted:The male MC's thing is that he is kind of sad, quiet and depressed, so that follows. He's kind of by definition not very outgoing. Surely you see how it's kind of ridiculous to call him "not very outgoing" when he's making friends with everyone he meets from random small children to Buddhist monks and the terminally ill, though?
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Feb 7, 2024 17:56
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ImpAtom posted:The male MC's thing is that he is kind of sad, quiet and depressed, so that follows. He's kind of by definition not very outgoing. The thing is that he's not any of those things? In the game at least.
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Feb 7, 2024 17:59
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Arist posted:Surely you see how it's kind of ridiculous to call him "not very outgoing" when he's making friends with everyone he meets from random small children to Buddhist monks and the terminally ill, though? Because he changes over the course of the game, yes. That's the entire point. Clarste posted:The thing is that he's not any of those things? In the game at least. The dude literally begins as a Plain Timid Slacker with no friends, seemingly no relatives or close relations, and who is so dull to life he has no problem picking up a gun and shooting himself in the head without any of the fear expressed by the others. Over the course of the game he gets better and gets more connections and improves himself. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Feb 7, 2024 |
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Feb 7, 2024 18:00
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quote:Because he changes over the course of the game, yes. That's the entire point. No, he starts that way, making random social links with everyone because Igor told him to. If he has any consistent characterization, it's going "sure, why not" to anyone and everything. Indifference, I guess? But not in a cold way, he just goes along with anything. quote:The dude literally begins as a Plain Timid Slacker with no friends, seemingly no relatives or close relations, and who is so dull to life he has no problem picking up a gun and shooting himself in the head without any of the fear expressed by the others. Over the course of the game he gets better and gets more connections and improves himself. He has no friends because he just moved, and immediately makes friends with everyone. There is literally zero indication that he is not a social butterfly.
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Feb 7, 2024 18:02
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ImpAtom posted:Because he changes over the course of the game, yes. That's the entire point. hes got main character syndrome, its terminal
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Feb 7, 2024 18:04
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You do pretty much start the game walking by coffins and everything being saturated in an eerie green glow and when Mitsuru asks you if you see anything strange, 'nah'. Indifferent's kind of one way to put it.
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Feb 7, 2024 18:04
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Clarste posted:No, he starts that way, making random social links with everyone because Igor told him to. Literally the premise of the game is that you have to actually participate in and interact with the world to be able to do that. Like yeah, it's fun to pretend he's just staring at them until a S-Link Point Goes Up, but he's supposed to be actually spending time with these characters and we're just given a glimpse into the important moments. Clarste posted:He has no friends because he just moved, and immediately makes friends with everyone. There is literally zero indication that he is not a social butterfly. He literally has poo poo social stats and is unable to talk to or interact with some people until he improves himself. Like, yes, in P4/5 that makes less sense because they've just been carrying the same mechanics over, but in P3 it was a distinct "this dude is kind of crap" thing.
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Feb 7, 2024 18:04
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ImpAtom posted:Literally the premise of the game is that you have to actually participate in and interact with the world to be able to do that. Like yeah, it's fun to pretend he's just staring at them until a S-Link Point Goes Up, but he's supposed to be actually spending time with these characters and we're just given a glimpse into the important moments. You are the one pretending that he's doing anything as interesting as staring at them quietly (which would imply some kind of character). All indications are that he interacts with them perfectly normally like an average person. quote:He literally has poo poo social stats and is unable to talk to or interact with some people until he improves himself. Like, yes, in P4/5 that makes less sense because they've just been carrying the same mechanics over, but in P3 it was a distinct "this dude is kind of crap" thing. You don't even meet any of those people until later in the game, after you've already improved your stats. It's hard to say it indicates an early weakness of character, narratively. Instead, he is instantly Kenji and Junpei's best friend, for some reason.
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Feb 7, 2024 18:08
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Oh yeah, and let's not forget that he quickly meets a lot of at least superficially cool and popular kids who immediately proceed to tell him how awesome he is and make him the leader of the team. The overall message of the game from very early on is that you are cool and special and everyone sees that in you. Ironically, P5 betters sells the fantasy of being treated as a loser and having to earn respect.
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Feb 7, 2024 18:14
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Clarste posted:You don't even meet any of those people until later in the game, after you've already improved your stats. It's hard to say it indicates an early weakness of character, narratively. Instead, he is instantly Kenji and Junpei's best friend, for some reason. You don't though. Like you might have already improved your points there but it's entirely possible Moon of all loving links can turn you down because you're too schlubby for him. Kenji comes to befriend him because Kenji is similarly kind of a weird loser which is why he's the default link. Junpei similarly is just the kind of guy who gloms onto people and actively ends up being resentful of the protagonist the moment they appear to be overshadowing him. Clarste posted:Oh yeah, and let's not forget that he quickly meets a lot of at least superficially cool and popular kids who immediately proceed to tell him how awesome he is and make him the leader of the team. The overall message of the game from very early on is that you are cool and special and everyone sees that in you. They do that because he's good at shooting himself in the head without fear. Like that is the literal stated reason for it, because unlike Yukari and Junpei, he can just use his evoker without hesitation.
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Feb 7, 2024 18:15
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Moon thinking you are not charming enough to hang out with him is more of a joke because he himself is the opposite of charming. Also, a big part of the link is him whining about how you're effortlessly cooler than him and how unfair that is.
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Feb 7, 2024 18:16
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The MC in Persona games tends to be a bit more quiet to let the more defined party members and social link characters shine, but P3's does feel weirdly extra detached. His closest bonds I think are really Yukari and Junpei. Yes there's Aigis but it's a much more one-sided affair, with Yukari and Junpei you get more shenanigans and group scenes and you even get a little scene with Junpei on the rooftop later on in the game. Akihiko does get roped into shenanigans too, but it's more Junpei dragging him in. The extra hangouts in P3R are helping a bit though. You can kinda characterize him however you like obviously but I guess I've always headcanoned him as more hanging out with Yukari/Junpei, and otherwise quietly existing with people like Akinari and the Old Couple; he doesn't need to say much, his presence is just kinda enough.
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Feb 7, 2024 18:18
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n’thing that there’s nothing diegetic about p3’s male protag, he’s just a vaguely gloomy cipher with main character ultra-competence. one step above the mannequin that is DQ11’s hero but with better hair
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Feb 7, 2024 18:21
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Oxxidation posted:really can’t stress enough how the 100% guides will ruin your enjoyment of this. the amount of micromanagement needed to get all the links in a single sweep is exhausting and most of the guides don’t account for new dorm activities etc either They've never ruined my enjoyment. I just enjoy turning my brain off during the daily life stuff and don't enjoy making my own schedule. Without a guide (or looking stuff up) there's no way to know which stats are better to get earlier, etc. If I was inclined towards doing a NG+ it would be completely different (since I could just get what I missed the second time around), but I have zero interest in doing that in these games. (Also P3 is the only one with difficult/micromanagement requirements)
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Feb 7, 2024 18:24
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ApplesandOranges posted:It's still early for me but it's still kinda soft-confirming for me that P3 Male MC is the weakest character of the 'modern' Persona protags. It's hard to really get a read on what kind of character he is even though he's appeared in quite a few spin-offs now as his own character (Persona Q/2 and Dancing). Even just going from his social links he can read anywhere from apathetic to sociopathic/enabling. Not that he doesn't have his 'good' option choices, but they just end up making his 'canon' personality harder to read other than just being kinda quiet. If you 100% P3 Igor flat out calls P3 Male MC an empty mask. His dialogue options are clearly based around just mindlessly agreeing with whatever whoever he's speaking with wants to hear, even if what they want to hear is self-destructive. His sociopathy is reinforced by how, in the original game, he had no time for his male teammates, because they didn't give him any s-link power. They've awkwardly addressed that by giving you hang out options, which is better than nothing but still not a full s-link. (lets not even think about how in the original he, by default, was cool with cheating on all his female s-links who were romanceable)
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Feb 7, 2024 18:24
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ApplesandOranges posted:You can kinda characterize him however you like obviously but I guess I've always headcanoned him as more hanging out with Yukari/Junpei, and otherwise quietly existing with people like Akinari and the Old Couple; he doesn't need to say much, his presence is just kinda enough. Being able to characterize him however you like is sort of the entire problem here, since you can easily characterize him as someone completely unlike the guy who starts the game ignoring the coffins and signs an obviously creepy contract. Which was the interesting part about him.
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Feb 7, 2024 18:25
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I just don't see it. It'd be one thing if the protagonist had to be initially pushed to interact with other people (beyond Mitsuru forcing you to join the Student Council) and then that leads to him making more and more connections. In the actual game that impression neither registers nor feels particularly intended.
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Feb 7, 2024 18:25
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How did the movies handle him. I never saw em.
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Feb 7, 2024 18:26
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Clarste posted:Being able to characterize him however you like is sort of the entire problem here, since you can easily characterize him as someone completely unlike the guy who starts the game ignoring the coffins and signs an obviously creepy contract. Which was the interesting part about him. On this note, I don't like the bit right at the beginning of Reload where you can inspect them and he wonders what they are. He's been seeing them for ten years!
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Feb 7, 2024 18:27
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After playing P3P, I thought the ending implied that the protagonist was never a real person in some weird metaphysical way, which would explain his kinda blank personality. But, I can't find anything online to support my interpretation, so I guess I was hallucinating.
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Feb 7, 2024 18:28
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Shart Carbuncle posted:After playing P3P, I thought the ending implied that the protagonist was never a real person in some weird metaphysical way, which would explain his kinda blank personality. But, I can't find anything online to support my interpretation, so I guess I was hallucinating. If I really squint I think I can follow the logic behind that, maybe? But no, he was real, part of the explicit plot is that his humanity informed Ryoji's personality.
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Feb 7, 2024 18:30
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Clarste posted:Oh yeah, and let's not forget that he quickly meets a lot of at least superficially cool and popular kids who immediately proceed to tell him how awesome he is and make him the leader of the team. The overall message of the game from very early on is that you are cool and special and everyone sees that in you. Not really. P5 definitely has issues but the start is amazing and a big part of that is selling the idea that from the word go everyone things the MC is absolute scum and the cruelty/injustice of it all.
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Feb 7, 2024 18:35
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Hunt11 posted:Not really. P5 definitely has issues but the start is amazing and a big part of that is selling the idea that from the word go everyone things the MC is absolute scum and the cruelty/injustice of it all. I think you two were agreeing with each other
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Feb 7, 2024 18:36
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Arist posted:I think you two were agreeing with each other That was more me being pedantic about the word ironically.
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Feb 7, 2024 18:37
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Clarste posted:
Yeah I don't buy this at all when you don't get inconvenienced at all at any point in the game. You never have to prove yourself in a non generic stat way that has anything to do with your reputation in the narrative.
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Feb 7, 2024 18:37
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Yeah I don't buy this at all when you don't get inconvenienced at all at any point in the game. You never have to prove yourself in a non generic stat way that has anything to do with your reputation in the narrative. your inconvenience is people calling you a delinquent all the time which maybe hurts your feelings, as the player
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Feb 7, 2024 18:56
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It hurt my feelings op.
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Feb 7, 2024 18:58
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Feels Villeneuve posted:It hurt my feelings op. im sorry have you considered going to the sauna or washing some dirty clothes you beat out of some personas
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Feb 7, 2024 19:01
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Like it would have been so much better if you needed to grind out a stat or w/e to have the self confidence to stand up for yourself at any point to start an S.link or gain access to a service (like how you need to have courage to enter the club in p3, etc)
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Feb 7, 2024 19:03
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Arist posted:Surely you see how it's kind of ridiculous to call him "not very outgoing" when he's making friends with everyone he meets from random small children to Buddhist monks and the terminally ill, though? yeah because a minor deity appeared to him personally and told him that he has superpowers now and their strength and the fate of the world depends directly on how many friends he has this also explains his range of responses from reasonably friendly if subdued to "i don't care" to "the world depends on me telling you what you want to hear so yes, kenji, your teacher DOES want to gently caress you" to "sorry kaz but the world is more important than your cartilage"
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Feb 7, 2024 19:07
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cock hero flux posted:yeah because a minor deity appeared to him personally and told him that he has superpowers now and their strength and the fate of the world depends directly on how many friends he has the minor deity gave the MC the means to fully realize his lust for power. the mc is therefore ambitious and power hungry
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Feb 7, 2024 19:20
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ApplesandOranges posted:It's still early for me but it's still kinda soft-confirming for me that P3 Male MC is the weakest character of the 'modern' Persona protags. It's hard to really get a read on what kind of character he is even though he's appeared in quite a few spin-offs now as his own character (Persona Q/2 and Dancing). Even just going from his social links he can read anywhere from apathetic to sociopathic/enabling. Not that he doesn't have his 'good' option choices, but they just end up making his 'canon' personality harder to read other than just being kinda quiet. hes the best one. all the others are just nothing lol
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Feb 7, 2024 19:25
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ApplesandOranges posted:I've never played the male side so in a way experiencing most of these links are for the first time even though I've known what happens in them. Arist posted:Magician is at least, like, a train wreck, and you can kind of justify the protagonist's participation in it as a "this dude needs to learn" thing, but Chariot is a nightmare. You are legitimately a bad person in Chariot. you guys are so loving stupid its unreal franjly. you can tell him it isnt good to do and take the hit on the points and have ti take longer, youre choosing not to to metagame in an rpg and thats on u. people responding better to what they want to hear rather than better advice isnt a flaw of the game or writing. also if you dont understand why kaz is doing what hes doing regardless of the risk youve got something wrong with you.
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Feb 7, 2024 19:29
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Ibram Gaunt posted:How did the movies handle him. I never saw em. i saw two of them last year and cannot remember anything about him from them tbh so ill say they kept to the source material
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Feb 7, 2024 19:40
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Stux posted:you guys are so loving stupid its unreal franjly. you can tell him it isnt good to do and take the hit on the points and have ti take longer, youre choosing not to to metagame in an rpg and thats on u. people responding better to what they want to hear rather than better advice isnt a flaw of the game or writing. also if you dont understand why kaz is doing what hes doing regardless of the risk youve got something wrong with you. If they wanted to be realistic they should have "telling kaz insane poo poo" result in a short-term gain, that later turns into a giant reversal when Kaz realizes that he has permanently crippled himself with your support
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Feb 7, 2024 20:07
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Ytlaya posted:If they wanted to be realistic they should have "telling kaz insane poo poo" result in a short-term gain, that later turns into a giant reversal when Kaz realizes that he has permanently crippled himself with your support prefacing every hangout with kaz with "i am not a doctor" to give myself a terms and conditions for accepting my encouragement
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Feb 7, 2024 20:10
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sitll blown away by the idea some people do the slink where kaz reveals that as far as he understands if he doesnt take this risk his 5 year old nephew will be permanently disabled and they both think that they should stop him and that the people who hear that and decide to support him are the ones who are sociopaths lmfao oh, and btw kaz slink is easily better than any link in 5.
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Feb 7, 2024 20:13
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