Pathfinder 2e: If your MAP is too high, use your third action to Post.

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Hellioning: Jun 27, 2008

If it is any of the ray I am going to be mildly annoyed.

If it is Calistria I am going to be very annoyed.

# ? Feb 8, 2024 03:10

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 02:46

Nissin Cup Nudist: Sep 3, 2011; Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land

Killing off the Bank God would actually rule

# ? Feb 8, 2024 03:21

Silver2195: Apr 4, 2012

Chevy Slyme posted:

Gorum as a god interesting. So is Calistra. But neither are particularly interesting in the ways they interact with other gods or with the world. They�re mainly interesting in terms of personality and the way that their worship is expressed. Which is cool, but doesn�t make for an interesting dead god.

It�s the difference between a god who is interesting because of their portfolio, and what they represent and how they represent it (Gorum), and a god who is interesting because of the various legends and stories in which they, as an individual being of power (or a mortal before they gained power) has a prominent narrative role (a Shelyn, or an Iomedae say.)

Good point.

# ? Feb 8, 2024 03:32

Ravus Ursus: Mar 30, 2017

Kill Asmodeus. Replace him with a formerly chaotic good entity.

This is how the alignment system is canonically revoked. Then they use this to shake up the afterlife structures and allow for formerly impossible things to exist, like a Monitor Psychopomp or an Azata creating contracts for hell or something.

# ? Feb 8, 2024 04:09

Lurks With Wolves: Jan 14, 2013; At least I don't dance with them, right?

Kvantum posted:

I think the mention of the amalgamate deity "Zon-Shelyn" as the patron deity for one of the Starfinder 2e Iconics means it's down to one of the two of the half-siblings.

Note: I don't have it handy, but their official position is that Starfinder is essentially an alternate timeline so they aren't permanently locked into creative decisions they made in 2017 because they'd be interesting in the distant scifi future. So, Zon-Shelyn means one of them dying and merging is a possibility, but only because it shows that Paizo's current writers think it's a cool idea and not because Starfinder is the one true fate all of Pathfinder must inevitably trend towards.

(But also, we know the Prismatic Ray is going to go through some kind of change, so Shelyn getting some shadow gunk on her and starting the fall to edginess would make sense even if neither sibling actually dies during whatever happens in the metaplot.)

# ? Feb 8, 2024 04:21

Mister Olympus: Oct 31, 2011; Buzzard, Who Steals From Dead Bodies

i keep trying to think of this from a meta perspective: what's the least convenient god, with the most weird contradictory and outdated lore that they can just sweep aside? but that made me think pharasma would be first. so yeah, i think abadar is pretty likely, though i do like his niche of "antagonist LN god that is still broadly accepted"

# ? Feb 8, 2024 05:11

sugar free jazz: Mar 5, 2008

My hopes are zon kuthon fucks up shelyn, shelyn fucks up zon kuthon, or rovagug gets hosed up and it�s a big mystery because they were locked in the vault oooohhhh jeez what happened play the new AP to find out. those would be the coolest imo

# ? Feb 8, 2024 06:06

HidaO-Win: Jun 5, 2013; "And I did it, because I was a man who had exhausted reason and thus turned to magicks"

I think cynically the lesbian polycule are safe because they are a lesbian polycule.

I�d have enjoyed Pharasma getting killed by Aroden, but my vote for most likely to die is Torag as he�s the closest to a bog standard chief Dwarven god like Moradin. To the point where if I put art of both of them side by side I�d find it tough to tell them apart.

# ? Feb 8, 2024 10:40

pumpinglemma: Apr 28, 2009; DD: Fondly regard abomination.

Yeah, I�m not sure I buy the argument that it would be narratively boring to kill off one of the less significant gods - surely that depends on what happens as a result and/or what they�re replaced with?

# ? Feb 8, 2024 10:59

mind the walrus: Sep 22, 2006

They'd better not loving touch Shelyn, I have been using her to court new players to Pathfinder with great success. Evolve her in any direction but down, please.

pumpinglemma posted:

Yeah, I�m not sure I buy the argument that it would be narratively boring to kill off one of the less significant gods - surely that depends on what happens as a result and/or what they�re replaced with?

It also depends on how far ranging they want the impact to be, but with the Exemplar it's pretty clear they want it to be capital B big, as they should, so while I could see like Cayden Cailean dying being interesting for specific potential avenues (lost orphans, partying and camaraderie is befouled, etc.) it doesn't really have the same "oomph" as "Prophecy is Broken" or "Death is Broken" or "Civilization is Broken."

HidaO-Win posted:

I�d have enjoyed Pharasma getting killed by Aroden, but my vote for most likely to die is Torag as he�s the closest to a bog standard chief Dwarven god like Moradin. To the point where if I put art of both of them side by side I�d find it tough to tell them apart.

My money is Torag too. He's not adding anything to the lore that other gods can't cover as well, or better, and it would be a drat good way to reshape Dwarf culture. They just did the AP and LO books on Highhelm, so maybe it's on their minds, and they've done such a good job making their gnomes, elves, goblins, and heritages appealing so it would be nice to see the Dwarves get refined.

# ? Feb 8, 2024 16:41

Arrrthritis: May 31, 2007; I don't care if you're a star, the moon, or the whole damn sky, you need to come back down to earth and remember where you came from

wouldn't it be funny if groetus died like a chump

# ? Feb 8, 2024 16:46

Chevy Slyme: May 2, 2004; We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.

Arrrthritis posted:

wouldn't it be funny if groetus died like a chump

It would be but he�s not one of the core 20.

# ? Feb 8, 2024 16:49

HidaO-Win: Jun 5, 2013; "And I did it, because I was a man who had exhausted reason and thus turned to magicks"

mind the walrus posted:

My money is Torag too. He's not adding anything to the lore that other gods can't cover as well, or better, and it would be a drat good way to reshape Dwarf culture. They just did the AP and LO books on Highhelm, so maybe it's on their minds, and they've done such a good job making their gnomes, elves, goblins, and heritages appealing so it would be nice to see the Dwarves get refined.

Additionally, the primary goal of the remaster is to make PF2e WotC lawfare proof and Torag and Moradin are too close for comfort without anything that makes them look absolutely different. So he gotta go.

Look at all the stuff they changed the name of, it reminds me of the fall out of the WotC lawsuit against Hex.

# ? Feb 8, 2024 16:59

Taear: Nov 26, 2004; Ask me about the shitty opinions I have about Paradox games!

HidaO-Win posted:

Additionally, the primary goal of the remaster is to make PF2e WotC lawfare proof and Torag and Moradin are too close for comfort without anything that makes them look absolutely different. So he gotta go.

Honestly that does make sense, just kill off the ones that are too close to OGL stuff

Henceforth dwarfs will be Duradin and elves will be Elfinians

# ? Feb 8, 2024 17:10

mind the walrus: Sep 22, 2006

Arrrthritis posted:

wouldn't it be funny if groetus died like a chump

Let the drat beach ball be. (would be funny though)

HidaO-Win posted:

Additionally, the primary goal of the remaster is to make PF2e WotC lawfare proof and Torag and Moradin are too close for comfort without anything that makes them look absolutely different. So he gotta go.

Look at all the stuff they changed the name of, it reminds me of the fall out of the WotC lawsuit against Hex.

It's the most pragmatic move from multiple angles, which also means it's a bit less dramatic.

Even so it would be a good move with good options that still allow other Gods in the Pantheon to change up in cool ways:

Zon-Kuthon, Callistria, Irori, Nethys, Sarenrae, and Iomedae would get a hell of a lot of followers trying to cope in various ways, healthy and unhealthy.
Erastil, Gorum, Pharasma, and Abadar would find themselves suddenly hosting massive Dwarf populations trying to compensate and being manipulated towards various ends to keep continuity of their lands together.
Urgothoa, Norgorber, and Lamashtau would want to exploit the rift alongside many other opportunists working under the guise of other deities.
Shelyn, Desna, and Cayden Cailean would all have cause to rally and support the others despite their particular edicts not being seen as useful or needed at such a time.
Asmodeus could do the expected Asmodeus poo poo.

Because even when it's an uncle no one really thinks about who dies, it's still part of the family and having to integrate the remains changes everyone, even if it's just a fresh coat of paint from his garage.

# ? Feb 8, 2024 17:21

bagrada: Aug 4, 2007; The Demogorgon is tired of your silly human bickering!

Reading about this got me thinking about playing a fighter who is a depowered warrior priest whose god died. I know that concept has been a character in fiction more than once but can't remember where offhand.

# ? Feb 8, 2024 17:40

sugar free jazz: Mar 5, 2008

dwarves are cool as hell and it's frankly pretty rude to think about their culture from the perspective im seeing here, bunch of disgusting prairie and forest dwellers itt

# ? Feb 8, 2024 17:40

mind the walrus: Sep 22, 2006

sugar free jazz posted:

dwarves are cool as hell and it's frankly pretty rude to think about their culture from the perspective im seeing here, bunch of disgusting prairie and forest dwellers itt

It's like gnomes-- there's nothing wrong with the way they were, but adding The Bleaching just gave them that last extra spice they needed to be distinct and more appealing. Feels like the Dwarves are still looking for that.

# ? Feb 8, 2024 17:42

crime fighting hog: Jun 29, 2006; I only pray, Heaven knows when to lift you out

Can anyone suggest a 5th level or so adventure/dungeon? Got a new group starting next Sunday, some of the players have played PF before, I've run D&D a bunch but never PF specifically.

I'm really excited though! We have a barbarian, bard, druid and monk if that matters.

# ? Feb 8, 2024 17:44

sugar free jazz: Mar 5, 2008

mind the walrus posted:

It's like gnomes-- there's nothing wrong with the way they were, but adding The Bleaching just gave them that last extra spice they needed to be distinct and more appealing. Feels like the Dwarves are still looking for that.

yeah? why dont you go see the sun or climb a tree about it or whatever it is you people do

# ? Feb 8, 2024 17:49

mind the walrus: Sep 22, 2006

crime fighting hog posted:

Can anyone suggest a 5th level or so adventure/dungeon? Got a new group starting next Sunday, some of the players have played PF before, I've run D&D a bunch but never PF specifically.

I'm really excited though! We have a barbarian, bard, druid and monk if that matters.

You specified your classes so all of them could be substituted in, with arguably the exception of the last one.

Mark of the Mantis -- 6th level infiltration mission to assassinate a corrupt noble lady, dark urban theme; 4 prebuilt characters but can easily be substituted as long as you're ok with them doing assassin work. It does implicitly encourage 1-2 party members to scout the mansion while others socialize/distract, so if you've got a party that is terrified to split because a lot of GMs/scenarios punish that, it will take a leap of faith.

Sundered Waves -- 5th level about pirates coming together to find their lost captain's treasure. 4 prebuilts but could easily use other characters who happened to hear about a lost pirate treasure. I haven't run it but I helped a few friends set it up and it seems both straightforward and enjoyable. You might want to substitute the vipers and ants for something a bit more interesting, but it seems like a really great vanilla way to cut your teeth on PF2e.

Headshot the Rot -- 3rd level zombie outbreak with a wild west flavor. 4 prebuilt Gunslingers come out of a play and have to deal with the undead. It looks like a blast, no pun intended, thematically and conceptually but might not be the best PF2e intro as they're all Gunslingers and the "safe" gameplay loop for them kind-of defeats what makes the 3 Action system so great.

sugar free jazz posted:

yeah? why dont you go see the sun or climb a tree about it or whatever it is you people do

I just want the Dwarves to be fuckable.

mind the walrus fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Feb 8, 2024

# ? Feb 8, 2024 18:01

crime fighting hog: Jun 29, 2006; I only pray, Heaven knows when to lift you out

mind the walrus posted:

You specified your classes so all of them could be substituted in, with arguably the exception of the last one.

Mark of the Mantis -- 6th level infiltration mission to assassinate a corrupt noble lady, dark urban theme; 4 prebuilt characters but can easily be substituted as long as you're ok with them doing assassin work. It does implicitly encourage 1-2 party members to scout the mansion while others socialize/distract, so if you've got a party that is terrified to split because a lot of GMs/scenarios punish that, it will take a leap of faith.

Sundered Waves -- 5th level about pirates coming together to find their lost captain's treasure. 4 prebuilts but could easily use other characters who happened to hear about a lost pirate treasure. I haven't run it but I helped a few friends set it up and it seems both straightforward and enjoyable. You might want to substitute the vipers and ants for something a bit more interesting, but it seems like a really great vanilla way to cut your teeth on PF2e.

Headshot the Rot -- 3rd level zombie outbreak with a wild west flavor. 4 prebuilt Gunslingers come out of a play and have to deal with the undead. It looks like a blast, no pun intended, thematically and conceptually but might not be the best PF2e intro as they're all Gunslingers and the "safe" gameplay loop for them kind-of defeats what makes the 3 Action system so great.

I just want the Dwarves to be fuckable.

I will check those out, thank you!

The pirate one is most likely, as our bard is a goblin who was previously working for a pirate lord of some kind. I need to check my notes but I can easily adapt it to what will suit.

# ? Feb 8, 2024 18:23

atelier morgan: Mar 11, 2003; super-scientific, ultra-gay; Lipstick Apathy

mind the walrus posted:

It's like gnomes-- there's nothing wrong with the way they were, but adding The Bleaching just gave them that last extra spice they needed to be distinct and more appealing. Feels like the Dwarves are still looking for that.

never read a post that said 'i didn't read mwangi expanse' so clearly

mind the walrus posted:

I just want the Dwarves to be fuckable.

ok maybe this one

# ? Feb 8, 2024 18:30

sugar free jazz: Mar 5, 2008

mind the walrus posted:

I just want the Dwarves to be fuckable.

incredibly insensitive. that�s it, this is getting chiseled into the mountain

# ? Feb 8, 2024 18:35

Lurks With Wolves: Jan 14, 2013; At least I don't dance with them, right?

Chevy Slyme posted:

It would be but he�s not one of the core 20.

If it helps, I believe they also said there's going to be more divine death and destruction beyond the core 20. So there's still room for Groetus to eat poo poo and gently caress up the entire big bang/big crunch cycle.

(Also all dwarves are fuckable if you aren't a coward.)

# ? Feb 8, 2024 18:59

mind the walrus: Sep 22, 2006

atelier morgan posted:

never read a post that said 'i didn't read mwangi expanse' so clearly

ok maybe this one

Been working around to it! Currently halfway around the world in Tian Xia for the Ruby Phoenix tourney. Hoping to run Mwangi stuff by the end of the year.

Lurks With Wolves posted:

If it helps, I believe they also said there's going to be more divine death and destruction beyond the core 20. So there's still room for Groetus to eat poo poo and gently caress up the entire big bang/big crunch cycle.

Yeah I heard in this thread that Arazni is getting promoted? Didn't have a source though. Would be funniest if Groteus died in all the commotion and no one noticed.

quote:

[quote](Also all dwarves are fuckable if you aren't a coward.)

People are cowards :negative:

# ? Feb 8, 2024 19:24

Lurks With Wolves: Jan 14, 2013; At least I don't dance with them, right?

Good news, I found the official Reddit post collecting all the hints they posted circa mid-January. Which I'm going to repost here, for convenience.

One (and only one) of the core deities (the twenty deities featured in Player Core, Abadar�Zon-Kuthon) will be dying.
After this god's death, Arazni will be filling the empty slot in the core 20. Arazni is not taking over the dead god's portfolio or anything. There is simply an empty space that she will happen to fill.
This god's death has been planned for a long time, as far back as summer 2022. Though, I recall discussion about it with some key staff even earlier. Thus, the ball was rolling for this death before any OGL/ORC considerations.
Starfinder canon has no bearing on whether a god will live or die. If a god exists in Starfinder, it does not guarantee that they will live. If a god doesn't exist in Starfinder, it doesn't mean they are among a "short list" of gods who could die.
Feature among the selection of the Gods of Lost Omens minis has no bearing on whether or not a god will die.
We will not be bringing back Aroden just to kill him off again.
We will not be cheating and bringing the dead god immediately back just to say we technically killed a god. The god's death will have repercussions for the setting and the god remaining dead is part of these developments.
I mentioned that Divine Mysteries has an in-setting narrator in the form of Yivali, a nosoi psychopomp-in-training. Her writing is presented as a report on faith and divinity for Pharasma, focusing on the Inner Sea region specifically. This in-progress report started decades ago and has no bearing on whether or not Pharasma will die. That is, just because the report is for Pharasma, doesn't mean that she's safe.
The core deity is not the only god dying as part of the WoI event. Other gods will die, but only one god from the ranks of the Core 20.
There have been hints setting up some kind of development with Torag.
There will be at least one orc deity dying.
There will be at least one herald of a deity dying. Players will have a chance to witness this death "in-person."
Major changes will be occurring as a result of the death. Some will be seen in WoI, some in adventures, some in additional material in the future.
Some pantheons (the mechanical term referring to the likes of the Godclaw or the Cosmic Carvan) will be changing.
The Prismatic Ray will be changing.
Shyka will survive.
The cover of Divine Mysteries does not hold any clues to the identity of the dying god.
Divine Mysteries will feature new gods.
There will be new Arcadian gods detailed in Divine Mysteries.
Razmir has an entry in Divine Mysteries.
There will be some gods we won't mention ever again due to their OGL connections.

That last one is mostly about Kostchtchie, who's based on an IRL myth but whose Pathfinder version is very close to the D&D version they wrote about in Dragon back in the day. Asmodeus is too distinct and too setting-important to be quietly ignored for OGL reasons.

# ? Feb 8, 2024 19:40

sugar free jazz: Mar 5, 2008

Shyka and the other eldest rule and I hope they do more with them

# ? Feb 8, 2024 19:52

Kyrosiris: May 24, 2006; You try to be happy when everyone is summoning you everywhere to "be their friend".

sugar free jazz posted:

Shyka and the other eldest rule and I hope they do more with them

As someone playing a gnome cleric of Shyka at one of my tables: absolutely 100% agreed

# ? Feb 9, 2024 00:45

MonsterEnvy: Feb 4, 2012; Shocked I tell you

Lurks With Wolves posted:

That last one is mostly about Kostchtchie, who's based on an IRL myth but whose Pathfinder version is very close to the D&D version they wrote about in Dragon back in the day. Asmodeus is too distinct and too setting-important to be quietly ignored for OGL reasons.

Asmodeus is also pretty different than his D&D counterpart. Namely he is much more stable, and heavily believes in stability. Like one of the big differences between D&D and Pathfinder Devils is that the pathfinder ones are very loyal to the Hierarchy, and not even the highest ranks have any interest in treachery towards Asmodeus.

# ? Feb 9, 2024 03:13

atenthirtyone: Aug 11, 2011

I'll be running Season of Ghosts for a party for four next week. The party consists of 3 humans and 1 halfling: Fighter, Champion, Psychic, and Thaumaturge. I read through most of the book 1 (summer), and it seems fairly fun so far. Is there any parts that I should watch out for?

# ? Feb 9, 2024 03:20

Taear: Nov 26, 2004; Ask me about the shitty opinions I have about Paradox games!

Highhelm is a really good book and I'm glad to be a Dwarf in Pathfinder

# ? Feb 9, 2024 08:55

Lurks With Wolves: Jan 14, 2013; At least I don't dance with them, right?

atenthirtyone posted:

I'll be running Season of Ghosts for a party for four next week. The party consists of 3 humans and 1 halfling: Fighter, Champion, Psychic, and Thaumaturge. I read through most of the book 1 (summer), and it seems fairly fun so far. Is there any parts that I should watch out for?

I've only read through the first half of the first book myself, but I've heard there's a few NPCs in the second book that you should mention in some way in the first book just because the town is small enough to hear about them and it might be a bit jarring otherwise. Also your party might have too many people trying to do similar things mechanically if the fighter, champion and thaumaturge are all trying to be cool melee people, but worst case scenario you'll just have to play the fights a bit dumb to compensate.

Anyway, I've also been considering running Season of Ghosts at some point in the next year, so here's hoping the game goes well.

# ? Feb 9, 2024 09:25

Megazver: Jan 13, 2006

mind the walrus posted:

It's like gnomes-- there's nothing wrong with the way they were, but adding The Bleaching just gave them that last extra spice they needed to be distinct and more appealing. Feels like the Dwarves are still looking for that.

dwarves aren't looking for that because dwarves are already perfect in every way, welcome to our grudge book

# ? Feb 9, 2024 10:50

Clerical Terrors: Apr 24, 2016; I'm so tired, I'm so very tired

Megazver posted:

dwarves aren't looking for that because dwarves are already perfect in every way, welcome to our grudge book

Is the grudge thing a Warhammer Fantasy invention or did they crib that from some other place as well?

# ? Feb 9, 2024 11:57

gurragadon: Jul 28, 2006

I ended up killing one of my players last session in AV and they are creating a wizard who is really into cooking as a replacement. I was planning on using the rules from Kingmaker for meal preparation but I'm kind of confused on how to use special ingredients. The character isn't trained in survival and isn't into the monster hunter thing, so they are going to have to buy special ingredients, but I don't know a fair price for them. I was thinking about the price being based on 1/2 the recipe price but I'm not sure if that is too much. I figured basic ingredients would just be cheap and pretty much just a bulk buy. I was just going to limit special ingredients per week to their level instead of per month because of the time differences in Kingmaker and Abomination Vaults.

https://2e.aonprd.com/CampMeals.aspx

These are the rules on AoN. I'd rather the rules lean toward making the players more overpowered and easier to cook because the rest of the party is pretty optimized, and I don't want them to lag behind.

# ? Feb 9, 2024 16:09

Harold Fjord: Jan 3, 2004

Sounds like he wants to be an Alchemist.

I'm not sure I get the point of a whole "cooking" alchemist-lite thing but I would base it off those rules with freearchetype.

Otherwise you are just buying weirdly themed potions?

Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Feb 9, 2024

# ? Feb 9, 2024 16:47

Facebook Aunt: Oct 4, 2008; wiggle wiggle

crime fighting hog posted:

Can anyone suggest a 5th level or so adventure/dungeon? Got a new group starting next Sunday, some of the players have played PF before, I've run D&D a bunch but never PF specifically.

I'm really excited though! We have a barbarian, bard, druid and monk if that matters.

I'm enjoying running the Emnity Cycle, which is for levels 4-6. Tracking down a missing person in fantasy egypt rather than fantasy europe.

# ? Feb 9, 2024 16:48

Lurks With Wolves: Jan 14, 2013; At least I don't dance with them, right?

Harold Fjord posted:

Sounds like he wants to be an Alchemist.

I'm not sure I get the point of a whole "cooking" alchemist-lite thing but I would base it off those rules with freearchetype.

Otherwise you are just buying weirdly themed potions?

Treasure Vault has a bunch of food-based alchemical items. Combining them with some Alchemist multiclass archetype feats (or just the normal alchemical crafting rules and being generous with recipes as loot drops) should be plenty for what you want to do.

# ? Feb 9, 2024 16:57

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 02:46

gurragadon: Jul 28, 2006

He's basing it on being a cook background and wanting to level up cooking lore skill. His free archetype is going to be familiar master.

I like the campsite meal recipe's because they all have a critical failure effect, and our group likes things with possible downsides. Just a thematic thing of making a bad meal and the campaign has a running theme of me giving magical food to the barbarian as rewards. Thats why I want to charge for ingredients and not the meal but since there is a chance of failure, I didn't want to just charge full recipe price each time.

I'll look at the treasure vault items too though. Could be some good inspiration there.

# ? Feb 9, 2024 17:03

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Pathfinder 2e: If your MAP is too high, use your third action to Post.

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