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Eletriarnation posted:This always feels like kind of a rhetorical cop-out. If it doesn't matter who you individually vote for, then either you should stop making it the focus of conversation or you should acknowledge that you're talking about it because you seek to influence other people to vote like you do. Those other people, on a site like SA, mostly will not live in the same state/district/whatever you do and so your influencing them absolutely does matter. There's only like 3 or 4 states where you, an absolute motor mouth with an insanely large social circle, could possibly impact the Presidential election with your impassioned and insanely persuasive hatred of Joe Biden. Which is disregarding that very few people are psychopathic enough to interact with live people like they do with digital people on the internet. For like 99.9% of the population it doesn't loving matter who they individually, or in a lockstep hivemind of every person they know vote for. It is impossible for me to poo poo post California Red or Mississippi Blue. If I'm poo poo posting on Something Awful in 2023 I can't even flip a single precinct in any state or territory.
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Feb 11, 2024 01:39
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https://twitter.com/Mediaite/status/1756390099359596822 She's running.
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Feb 11, 2024 01:54
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Gyges posted:There's only like 3 or 4 states where you, an absolute motor mouth with an insanely large social circle, could possibly impact the Presidential election with your impassioned and insanely persuasive hatred of Joe Biden. Which is disregarding that very few people are psychopathic enough to interact with live people like they do with digital people on the internet. Mmmmm, baby. Gotta love the Electoral College. Seriously, you guys. Why haven't there been an insurrection or massive riots about that?
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Feb 11, 2024 01:56
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Oh good. Because that worked so well the last time you tried that.
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Feb 11, 2024 02:00
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cdc posted:Mmmmm, baby. Gotta love the Electoral College. The folks who are most liable to start an insurrection are the ones benefiting from the EC right now. Gyges posted:There's only like 3 or 4 states where you, an absolute motor mouth with an insanely large social circle, could possibly impact the Presidential election with your impassioned and insanely persuasive hatred of Joe Biden. Which is disregarding that very few people are psychopathic enough to interact with live people like they do with digital people on the internet. It's facile to observe that one person and their arguments are not likely to make the difference in who wins the presidential election in a nation of a third of a billion people. I don't think that fact makes it any less cowardly to fall back on "well, my vote doesn't really matter" when it's pointed out that if enough people followed your shining example we'd all be completely hosed.
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Feb 11, 2024 02:05
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cdc posted:Mmmmm, baby. Gotta love the Electoral College. Nobody has ever known any other way, and there's only been 2 times in living memory that it didn't align with the popular vote anyway. We've got hundred of items of American Exceptional stupidity we should, but won't, be rioting over before hitting the Electoral College. Eletriarnation posted:It's facile to observe that one person and their arguments are not likely to make the difference in who wins the presidential election in a nation of a third of a billion people. I don't think that fact makes it any less cowardly to fall back on "well, my vote doesn't really matter" when it's pointed out that if enough people followed your shining example we'd all be completely hosed. If enough people followed the example of those who state they're not voting for Biden, 3rd Party candidates would have a chance and Biden wouldn't have even been the nominee. Jumping in to yell at someone that they're just helping Trump when they're justifiably pissed at Biden is far more tiring and pointless than posting about how you're not voting for Biden. Nobody here is changing any results, and the repeated insistence of attempting to browbeat people into voting for Biden is pointless. Gyges fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Feb 11, 2024 |
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Feb 11, 2024 02:05
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If you click through and look at what she actually says, the only takeaway from this article is that she still hasn't learned to talk to reporters without providing them stuff they can clip out of context to stir people up with misleading soundbites. quote:Clinton, the former first lady and secretary of state told Wagner that she’s spoken to people in the White House and “they know it’s an issue.”
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Feb 11, 2024 02:05
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The EC is taught to kids in highschool in civics, and the way it is presented is, 'the EC is a formality that compiles and verifies the voters' will. Yes, in theory it is used as a lost stopgap against a demagogue or tyrant from gaining a political position. This has never actually happened.' This is a problem philosophically of course; the EC being able to completely change their vote in opposition to the popular vote is, obviously an issue. However, it completely hides the real issue. The EC is viewed as an antiquated, slightly stupid anachronism that maybe, potentially is a problem but which serves a vague function and we'll get around to changing it when we have the time for it. The fact that the EC represents gerrymandering, districting, FPtP voting, and all the other problems associated with 'winning' states and boiling states down to their EC values in complete opposition to the popular vote, is not really discussed in high school civics.
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Feb 11, 2024 02:06
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Speaking of, could a dem outsider run against Biden at this point? Is it too late or could someone actually have a chance? And if it's too late, when would there have been a better time? How about an incumbent with no political experience?
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Feb 11, 2024 02:06
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Freakazoid_ posted:Speaking of, could a dem outsider run against Biden at this point? Is it too late or could someone actually have a chance? And if it's too late, when would there have been a better time? How about an incumbent with no political experience?
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Feb 11, 2024 02:12
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Freakazoid_ posted:Speaking of, could a dem outsider run against Biden at this point? Is it too late or could someone actually have a chance? And if it's too late, when would there have been a better time? How about an incumbent with no political experience? It's pretty much too late for anyone except Dean Phillips. The vast majority of primary filing deadlines have passed at this point, and there really aren't enough that haven't to get anywhere near enough pledged delegates for a majority. There's still plenty of time for independent candidates to file, but there are some deadlines starting to creep up next month: https://ballotpedia.org/Deadline_to_run_for_president,_2024
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Feb 11, 2024 02:13
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Freakazoid_ posted:Speaking of, could a dem outsider run against Biden at this point? Is it too late or could someone actually have a chance? And if it's too late, when would there have been a better time? How about an incumbent with no political experience? They could, but nobody is going to help them and it will be an up cliff battle to convince voters what they want right now is a fight that will "totally" weaken whoever wins right before fighting Trump. Also nobody of any stature or backing will do it because why not just wait to 2028 and avoid the animosity from the attempt and blame if Trump wins.
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Feb 11, 2024 02:14
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At this point, the only hope of another Dem beating Biden is if he dies or is seriously incapacitated and someone else gets nominated at the convention.
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Feb 11, 2024 02:15
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e: Eh, I don't think this post helped anything so nevermind and apologies.
Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Feb 11, 2024 |
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Feb 11, 2024 02:20
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HookedOnChthonics posted:Lmao are you seriously promulgating a ‘shy Biden voter’ theory What are you talking about? Biden has been nigh definitionally "boring" (relative to Trump anyways, maybe his gaffes are interesting?) as President. Otherwise there wouldn't be the criticism that he doesn't go out there enough to defend his agenda? I don't think he's acted or said anything publicly compared to Trump's "mexicans are rapists" and so on. You seem to be referring to some of Biden's (alleged, I don't agree but that's besides the point) policies regarding the Israeli-Hamas conflict but I'm not sure how one can look at how Trump acts and speaks compared to how Biden acts and speaks (in public to be clear) and conclude Biden is the "psychotic" one? I'm also not really sure it's even true that there's more of a "death count" under Biden, however one defines this. Isn't there like an infinity number of people dying due to capitalism? How does one even quantify this? Biden withdrew from Afghanistan while Trump doubled down the sanctions on Cuba and massively increased air strikes and drone strikes? I'm not sure any of the deaths in Gaza can't really be said to be Biden's fault (vs being Hamas's or Israel's fault) and of course Russia is causing many deaths in Ukraine which Biden is trying to prevent which I dunno shouldn't that count against it? And I have no idea how any of this is relevant to a "bright progressive future", the Hamas-Israel conflict seems to me to be entirely irrelevant to what a bright progressive future in the United States or the West in general looks like.
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Feb 11, 2024 02:22
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Gyges posted:Nobody has ever known any other way, and there's only been 2 times in living memory that it didn't align with the popular vote anyway. We've got hundred of items of American Exceptional stupidity we should, but won't, be rioting over before hitting the Electoral College. I know, and I'm sorry. It was a cheap shot from a very frustrated me.
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Feb 11, 2024 02:23
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HookedOnChthonics posted:Lmao are you seriously promulgating a ‘shy Biden voter’ theory "Theory." It's what happened last time
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Feb 11, 2024 02:24
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cdc posted:Mmmmm, baby. Gotta love the Electoral College. While I'm all for eliminating the Electoral College, doing so makes it even less likely that you or your friends circle will be deciding votes in a Presidential election. However, in both cases, the argument whether to participate is the same as any other argument about the principle of collective action vs the individual, and American culture has a remarkable tendency to reject the former being real.
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Feb 11, 2024 02:33
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Shammypants posted:"Theory." It's what happened last time Biden voters weren't "shy"; they were under-predicted because polling generally discounts the likelihood of young voters and first time voters actually voting, but they ALL did.
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Feb 11, 2024 02:34
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Biden voters weren't "shy"; they were under-predicted because polling generally discounts the likelihood of young voters and first time voters actually voting, but they ALL did. I think shy might be the wrong word. I thought we are talking about people who expressed a desire to vote for other candidates or writing other candidates in. Most of those people ultimately chose Biden anyway.
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Feb 11, 2024 02:35
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HookedOnChthonics posted:Lmao are you seriously promulgating a ‘shy Biden voter’ theory It's not exactly shy Biden voters. The thing is you see a lot of people online talking about protest voting because Democrats aren't far enough left (or, on other sites, because Republicans aren't far enough right), but evidence doesn't support that happening enough to matter. In 2016 and 2020 there was a lot of talk about Sanders voters not turning out for the nominee because they wanted a socialist, but they turned out at very high rates. Actual protest voters are usually protesting because Democrats are too far left (or Republicans are too far right) and most of them just vote for the other party.
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Feb 11, 2024 02:42
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Feb 11, 2024 02:51
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James Garfield posted:It's not exactly shy Biden voters. The thing is you see a lot of people online talking about protest voting because Democrats aren't far enough left (or, on other sites, because Republicans aren't far enough right), but evidence doesn't support that happening enough to matter. In 2016 and 2020 there was a lot of talk about Sanders voters not turning out for the nominee because they wanted a socialist, but they turned out at very high rates. It is astonishing how poll after poll shows that most disillusionment with Democrats comes from people thinking they're too far left (which is absurd). It really shows how SA and Twitter are bubbles.
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Feb 11, 2024 02:55
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Surely Hitler wouldn't dare invade Poland because England and France would then declare war. Surely Hitler wouldn't invade the USSR because they signed the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact.
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Feb 11, 2024 02:58
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FlamingLiberal posted:There’s some Congressman named Dean Phillips who decided to run. He has about the same level of support as you or me. also Marianne Williamson who sadly isn't much outperforming Phillips in a lot of states it's too late to get on the ballot so unless you want to run an even more doomed write in campaign the best you can do is rally people to go to their local and state conventions in case Biden dies, which in fairness is something I've been telling people to do since 2019 (well okay for a while in the 2020 cycle it was in case of a convention without a majority for a candidate) show up, try to select delegates who will vote for not Harris / will vote for national delegates who will vote for not Harris e: also if you're worried about the DNC Putting Its Thumb On The Scale in future elections state conventions select the vast majority of the DNC, anyone who fearmongers about the dnc and doesn't show up for their local convention is unserious (or has a serious schedule conflict) Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Feb 11, 2024 |
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Feb 11, 2024 03:01
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James Garfield posted:It's not exactly shy Biden voters. The thing is you see a lot of people online talking about protest voting because Democrats aren't far enough left (or, on other sites, because Republicans aren't far enough right), but evidence doesn't support that happening enough to matter. In 2016 and 2020 there was a lot of talk about Sanders voters not turning out for the nominee because they wanted a socialist, but they turned out at very high rates. The polling is showing similar things this year where the further left you go the more enthusiasm there is to vote in a Biden/Trump matchup: the dropoff is toward the center. This isn't to say that we shouldn't expect plenty of loud #walkaway posturing insisting it's from the left this year, but like the last two elections we should expect the noise to be far in excess of the numbers. Whether it's more successful in getting others to stay home than it has been in the past is another question, Killer robot fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Feb 11, 2024 |
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Feb 11, 2024 03:02
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Google Jeb Bush posted:also Marianne Williamson who sadly isn't much outperforming Phillips I believe both of them have officially withdrawn.
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Feb 11, 2024 03:02
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I believe both of them have officially withdrawn. still on the ballot 
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Feb 11, 2024 03:04
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I'm really, really hoping Biden comes to his senses and steps aside but I know that isn't going to happen and anyone who doesn't vote for the Dem nominee is a monster who is responsible for killing Amercan democracy. Personally I think such people deserve to die. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) L. Ron DeSantis fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Feb 11, 2024 |
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Feb 11, 2024 03:22
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Google Jeb Bush posted:e: also if you're worried about the DNC Putting Its Thumb On The Scale in future elections state conventions select the vast majority of the DNC, anyone who fearmongers about the dnc and doesn't show up for their local convention is unserious (or has a serious schedule conflict) Is this a moderation policy or an invitation for continued fearmongering about the dnc?
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Feb 11, 2024 03:22
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L. Ron DeSantis posted:I'm really, really hoping Biden comes to his senses and steps aside but I know that isn't going to happen and anyone who doesn't vote for the Dem nominee is a monster who is responsible for killing Amercan democracy. Personally I think such people deserve to die. this is an extremely low effort troll and you should feel bad about yourself and your posting
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Feb 11, 2024 03:41
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Acebuckeye13 posted:this is an extremely low effort troll and you should feel bad about yourself and your posting If you live in a swing state and don't vote for Biden, you should feel very, very bad about yourself. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 11, 2024 03:48
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cdc posted:If you live in a swing state and don't vote for Biden, you should feel very, very bad about yourself. Alternatively, they should feel very, very good about themselves if they don’t vote for someone who supports a genocidal apartheid state.
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Feb 11, 2024 04:01
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My personal feelings are that while there are valid reasons why someone might not be able to bring themselves to vote for Biden, at the end of the day it might be the last real vote we get to make is Trump gets into office again. Not to mention all the climate and general decent government stuff that's taking place under his administration - it's not sexy but it sure is nice to have a government staffed by generally competent and well-meaning people. saying anyone who doesn't vote Biden deserves to die is an obvious troll though
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Feb 11, 2024 04:14
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theCalamity posted:Alternatively, they should feel very, very good about themselves if they don’t vote for someone who supports a genocidal apartheid state. And Trump would be better how? Once again, this is unfortunately a binary choice. Biden or Trump. That's the choice you get. You can stay home and sulk or vote for some third party candidate who doesn't have a chance in hell of going anywhere. But as it looks now, unless one of them drops dead, those are the two choices you have. So do you want a somewhat reasonable and normal president (that has some serious flaws) or do you want the full on fascist orange rear end in a top hat?
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Feb 11, 2024 04:15
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cdc posted:If you live in a swing state and don't vote for Biden, you should feel very, very bad about yourself. vote scolding is a terrible and undemocratic strategy but I'm sure this time will be different theCalamity posted:Alternatively, they should feel very, very good about themselves if they don’t vote for someone who supports a genocidal apartheid state. A very valid point! Perhaps the Democrats should pursue a genocide-free platform if this truly is The Most Important Election in the History of Democracy (trademark pending)? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) FistEnergy fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Feb 11, 2024 |
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Feb 11, 2024 04:18
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FistEnergy posted:vote scolding is a terrible and undemocratic strategy but I'm sure this time will be different Isn't that literally what you're doing
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Feb 11, 2024 04:18
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Bwee posted:Isn't that literally what you're doing No? That's literally what some Biden supporters (and the post I replied to) are doing?
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Feb 11, 2024 04:21
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FistEnergy posted:vote scolding is a terrible and undemocratic strategy but I'm sure this time will be different When was the last time the election _wasn't_ the Most Important Election in the History of Democracy (tm, all rights reserved)
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Feb 11, 2024 04:22
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Cimber posted:When was the last time the election _wasn't_ the Most Important Election in the History of Democracy (tm, all rights reserved) 1996? That one seemed pretty chill to me, all things considered. (e: 2000 was really only so dramatic in retrospect because of the events that came out of it being so close, I think. Up until Election Day, it seemed like it was going to be normal.) theCalamity posted:Alternatively, they should feel very, very good about themselves if they don’t vote for someone who supports a genocidal apartheid state. The thing is that not voting, like most examples of not doing anything, doesn't actually accomplish anything by itself. So, you know, feel good about it if you want I guess but it's kind of exhausting how many posters here seem to be acting like it gives them some sort of moral superiority over the folks who are saying "there are a lot of problems my vote can't fix in this election but I'm still going to make the best choice I can." Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Feb 11, 2024 |
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Feb 11, 2024 04:27
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