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Which season of Doctor Who should get a Blu-ray set next? This poll is closed. |
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| One of the black-and-white seasons |
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16 | 29.63% |
| Season 7 |
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7 | 12.96% |
| Season 11 |
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1 | 1.85% |
| Season 13 |
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0 | 0% |
| Season 15 |
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2 | 3.70% |
| The Key to Time |
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21 | 38.89% |
| Season 21 |
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0 | 0% |
| Season 25 |
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7 | 12.96% |
| Total: | 54 votes | ||
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I don’t remember a lick about anything the episode actually had to say, I just remember being distracted and infuriated by the premise and resolution. Even for Doctor Who of all things it felt like such a massive leap in fantasy nonsense pseudoscience. It’s almost impressive.
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Feb 10, 2024 19:31
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| # ? May 24, 2024 05:52 |
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Clara ripping the Doctor to shreds at the end was well done (and extremely well acted), it's just a pity it's attached to such a lovely episode.
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Feb 10, 2024 19:42
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Kill the Moon had some interesting ideas, but a poor execution of them. It would have been better if it was the moon of a colony or something. Today's listen was Ghost Walk. While I like the Fifth Doctor with Nyssa and Tegan on audio, I've not listened to one yet with Adric. Adric continues to be annoying in this, but at least he's used well here. The Tardis crew stumble on a interdimensional being that feeds on energy, and the Doctor sends his companions to several points in time, with himself being stuck in the modern day with a rather grumpy tourst guide. The writing feels very spot on if you've visited a lot of tourist places in the UK and had the tour guide talk a group around. The visual of the TARDIS in darkness, drained of power, is a striking one, and I could picture it in grainy 1982-vision (aside from mobile phones being mentioned). Sacha Dhawan plays a supporting role...I wonder if he'd ever do anymore work on Doctor Who? He was rather good, maybe he'll pop up again in the franchise? It's always fun when the Doctor is on the catch up and having to improvise and plot on the move, but the ending does lean a bit hard into the "Doctor kills the villian, then gives a technobabble speech on how it was done" trope, but very solid stuff overall. OldMemes fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Feb 10, 2024 |
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Feb 10, 2024 19:50
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The firs season of Peter Davisons 5th Doctor is pretty good. I just finished Kinda and then I am on the Black Orchid. I'm enjoying the Black Orchid. It is extremely chill Who. I'm really liking Davisons 5th Doctor.
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Feb 10, 2024 21:02
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OldMemes posted:The visual of the TARDIS in darkness, drained of power, is a striking one, and I could picture it in grainy 1982-vision (aside from mobile phones being mentioned). Much like this from 1974: 
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Feb 10, 2024 22:14
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Gaz-L posted:YouTuber Sarah Z
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Feb 10, 2024 22:53
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LMAO that Adric smashing into Earth in a spaceship was what killed the dinosaurs and WELP Doctor can't do poo poo. Rest in Pieces Adric you wore a dumb as poo poo uniform with a star that signified you were good at math then you died.
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Feb 11, 2024 00:24
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Hollismason posted:The firs season of Peter Davisons 5th Doctor is pretty good. I just finished Kinda and then I am on the Black Orchid. I'm enjoying the Black Orchid. It is extremely chill Who. I like the 5th Doctor a lot. He's really even keeled compared to other incarnations and Davison is able to make the character just seem like a really nice dude.
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Feb 11, 2024 02:04
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Flying Zamboni posted:I like the 5th Doctor a lot. He's really even keeled compared to other incarnations and Davison is able to make the character just seem like a really nice dude. Ironically, Davison liked how the Doctor was starting to become a little more exasperated and sarcastic and world-weary in his last season, particularly in his final story, The Caves of Androzani (written by Robert Holmes, who had previously resisted writing for the Fifth Doctor, as he felt the character was too nice by half).
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Feb 11, 2024 02:14
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It's funny because I always felt Davison was playing 5 as exasperated from the beginning, and it was one of the things I really dug about him - particularly in his interactions with Tegan, I loved their dynamic. I do feel one of the biggest issues with his run was that the TARDIS crew was too big. Part of that is on Davison, apparently he really liked Sarah Sutton and asked to keep her as a permanent companion but it felt like the show had absolutely no idea what to do with her. Adric was a holdover from Tom Baker's run and he actually worked as a character really well with 4 I thought, but the dynamic with 5 felt more like 5 loathed him and could barely tolerate his presence*. Turlough later had the neat thing where he's torn between terror of the Black Guardian, guilt and paranoia towards the Doctor, and a desperation for self-preservation all while 5 is going  because Turlough is NOT doing a good job of covering any of this up. But Tegan and 5?  *  
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Feb 11, 2024 02:38
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PriorMarcus posted:Bizarrely if you ask the writer this is entirely by mistake and he's pro-choice in real life. Which I'm not sure I buy. The writer of Tardis Eruditorum also thinks its the best episode the show has ever done, but she also rates Forest of the Night in her top five so... On initial viewing in 2014, yes. During the more extended analysis in 2018, no. So that’s not entirely fair to El, who quite frankly one could have predicted would initially love Kill the Moon because everyone else hated it. Personally, I far prefer the kind of mad error that was those two episodes over the Chibnall years of “I should find this interesting, surely” mixed with “how can I be both mad and bored at the same time?”
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Feb 11, 2024 04:43
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One of the truly perplexing things about Kill the Moon is that the decision by the three women to NOT kill the unborn baby results in a big text display reading,"ABORTED" It makes me think the writer maybe really didn't somehow see this as an abortion debate because I can't fathom how they'd write something that confusing so deliberately. 
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Feb 11, 2024 04:52
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Edward Mass posted:I just realized a missed opportunity in Twice Upon a Time for Moffat to explain away William Hartnell fluffing his lines on occasion. You had your chance to make it a feature, not a bug! There was one of those Doctor Who comics from the early 2010s that did this. it came off as being in really bad taste.
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Feb 11, 2024 04:54
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Jerusalem posted:One of the truly perplexing things about Kill the Moon is that the decision by the three women to NOT kill the unborn baby results in a big text display reading,"ABORTED" I assumed they were throwing some pro-choice trappings in their anti-abortion screed to make it seem like they weren't taking a side even though they obviously were. I've heard people try to excuse the episode by saying that abortion isn't a political issue in the UK, which... at the time the episode aired, abortion was illegal in Northern Ireland no matter how early along in the pregnancy, even in cases of rape and incest. That didn't change until 2020. This isn't a case of "abortion was already legal and uncontroversial so everything was hunky-dory".
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Feb 11, 2024 06:57
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I've said this before, but the episode makes no sense as a straightforward abortion metaphor -- in terms of the typical premises of the debate, at least. It's not about whether abortion is morally wrong, whether life begins at moonception or after 30 million rotations, or whatever. The drama's taking place at a point in the birth that these kinds of questions are irrelevant. My main takeaway from the episode killing the moon baby seems fine, as a moral statement in a vacuum (i.e. it's not taking a deontological stance against abortion per se) -- but rather, the problem is genocide, and whether the survival of the human race is so important that the potential for its death overwhelms the definite genocide of moon baby's people. So yeah, it's about a difficult birth, probably most closely analogous to a situation where a doctor is forced to choose between the life of a child and the life of a parent. Unfortunately this all abuts uncomfortably against Moffat's weirdness around murder and other moral absolutes ("The man who never would") and you can't really have a consequentialist debate when it's been solved by an overall deontological framework. See also: his treatment of the Earth Reptiles.
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Feb 11, 2024 07:36
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in the end, as usual, Strax was right and the Doctor should have listened to him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAAc6iDS01U
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Feb 11, 2024 07:49
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They were too attached to the punchy elevator pitch. The genesis of the episode, the seed from which it grew (I'm sure there's a better metaphor but... nah, not getting it) was the five-syllable phrase "the moon is an egg". Hatching from an egg isn't anything like giving birth, but as they're both methods of reproduction someone was bound to conflate the two. It might have gone over better if the elevator pitch evolved with the writing of the episode, and the premise updated to reflect the execution. Imagine James Cameron writing "the moon is an egg" on a whiteboard, then crossing out "egg" and replacing it with another word, a word that wouldn't have significantly impacted the events of the episode, and in fact would have better aligned with the theme of "rites of passage" and kept any potential abortion subtext at a further remove while still evoking the image of an enclosed protective vessel from which a beautiful winged creature emerges: chrysalis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmXV5iOncT8&t=88s
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Feb 11, 2024 08:16
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Open Source Idiom posted:I've said this before, but the episode makes no sense as a straightforward abortion metaphor -- in terms of the typical premises of the debate, at least. It's not about whether abortion is morally wrong, whether life begins at moonception or after 30 million rotations, or whatever. The drama's taking place at a point in the birth that these kinds of questions are irrelevant. My main takeaway from the episode killing the moon baby seems fine, as a moral statement in a vacuum (i.e. it's not taking a deontological stance against abortion per se) -- but rather, the problem is genocide, and whether the survival of the human race is so important that the potential for its death overwhelms the definite genocide of moon baby's people. "The man who never would" is from an RTD era episode, Moffat didn't write the line. And Chibnall wrote the Silurian two-parter with minimal oversight.
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Feb 11, 2024 08:16
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DoctorWhat posted:"The man who never would" is from an RTD era episode, Moffat didn't write the line. And Chibnall wrote the Silurian two-parter with minimal oversight. Huh, I'm forgetting about the "never would" thing. In my head it's that slightly insipid thing that someone says about him in Day Of The Doctor when talking about Gallifreyian children, and that's more of what I was thinking about. Moffat absolutely rewrote a large part of Cold Blood though.
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Feb 11, 2024 08:22
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Yeah Tennant is "the man who never would" Most of the other doctors are "a man who might, depending on the circumstances"
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Feb 11, 2024 08:55
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Thirteen would, but only if it doesn't involve a gun, and she'd prefer if someone else would do it and die in her place.
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Feb 11, 2024 09:02
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:Yeah Tennant is "the man who never would" Does anybody have that Brigadier Sockface comic (possibly... Brigadier Sockface?) where it shows Ten proclaiming,"Base the foundation of your society on the example of a man who never would!" and in the background somebody is yelling,"WHAT ABOUT THE VERVOIDS?"  I thought I'd saved them all but all I could find in my pictures folder was the confusingly named "brig-sockface comic 3.jpg"
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Feb 11, 2024 09:15
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Just watched World Enough/Doctor Falls. Now, that was an unexpected and triumphant return.
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Feb 11, 2024 10:37
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I believe the guy when he says Kill The Moon wasn't intended as an abortion metaphor. To be clear I think he's a loving idiot but I can see how it happened.
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Feb 11, 2024 10:41
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Lottery of Babylon posted:I assumed they were throwing some pro-choice trappings in their anti-abortion screed to make it seem like they weren't taking a side even though they obviously were. One thing that surprises people about UK abortion law is that abortion is still criminalised in the UK, it's just that the bar for doctors permitting one to occur is very low.
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Feb 11, 2024 11:03
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SirSamVimes posted:Just watched World Enough/Doctor Falls. Now, that was an unexpected and triumphant return. Accessing.... Bill Potts. Locating... Bill Potts. I am... Bill Potts. 
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Feb 11, 2024 11:18
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Has anyone ever asked John Simm if he saw the Zathras episodes of Babylon 5 because honestly, it's an amazing case of parallel thinking if he didn't.
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Feb 11, 2024 11:23
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Thirteen would, but only if it doesn't involve a gun, and she'd prefer if someone else would do it and die in her place. To be fair, that's also Ten at some points, which is a point he makes himself in TEOT.
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Feb 11, 2024 12:24
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If I ever write a Doctor Who story there's going to be an aside about an alien species that lays moon-sized eggs right next to planet-sized food sources.
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Feb 11, 2024 14:00
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I’d be a lot happier with Kill the Moon if it wasn’t Earth’s moon. Make it a colony planet somewhere else in the galaxy! Having it be our moon just brings up so many “but wait…” thoughts.
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Feb 11, 2024 16:20
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Open Source Idiom posted:Huh, I'm forgetting about the "never would" thing. In my head it's that slightly insipid thing that someone says about him in Day Of The Doctor when talking about Gallifreyian children, and that's more of what I was thinking about. Moffat wrote all the crack/Rory material but you can observe that stuff is almost conspicuously siloed off.
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Feb 11, 2024 16:29
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The_Doctor posted:I’d be a lot happier with Kill the Moon if it wasn’t Earth’s moon. Make it a colony planet somewhere else in the galaxy! Having it be our moon just brings up so many “but wait…” thoughts. That's really the rub, isn't it How much better would some stories be if they weren't on Earth, but somewhere in the local quarry with some alien set dressing or people wearing silly hats?
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Feb 11, 2024 16:36
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DoctorWhat posted:Moffat wrote all the crack/Rory material but you can observe that stuff is almost conspicuously siloed off. I gather he wrote more. It's been a while but I recall that most of the negotiation scenes, particularly the opening pre titles, were him as well. The_Doctor posted:I’d be a lot happier with Kill the Moon if it wasn’t Earth’s moon. Make it a colony planet somewhere else in the galaxy! Having it be our moon just brings up so many “but wait…” thoughts. I feel like the story only really has an impact because it's "our" moon, in a similar way to how Earth Reptile stories only really work on Earth. (e.g. No one cares if we decolonise Titan, but a story about decolonising London is more significant.) The narrative isn't a trolley problem about genocide vs some people, it's genocide vs humanity's home planet (and only planet IIRC). Even if the situation was replicated to be about the Bleep Bloops from planet Flange I don't think it'd have the same power despite being otherwise identical. Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Feb 11, 2024 |
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Feb 11, 2024 17:26
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Hell, if they were just like 'it was implanted under the surface to gestate and it's been incubating and if it causes much more damage hatching than it's already doing, fragments of the Mopn crust flung free will rain down and kill billions' it'd make a lot more sense.
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Feb 11, 2024 17:33
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Harness and maybe Moffat clearly had a cute idea that the real world audience would turn their lights on/off to "vote" when it aired, making it into a television event.
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Feb 11, 2024 17:42
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Wait, who said anything about genociding the moon-creature's species? It's literally just one individual, the episode's not called Kill All The Moons.
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Feb 11, 2024 18:17
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MikeJF posted:Hell, if they were just like 'it was implanted under the surface to gestate and it's been incubating and if it causes much more damage hatching than it's already doing, fragments of the Mopn crust flung free will rain down and kill billions' it'd make a lot more sense. Well that was one of the reasons why they wanted to kill it, they didn't know that the moon egg shell would magically disintegrate in to harmless sparkles when it hatched. The moon had probably killed millions of people, the magically increased mass had made the tides go crazy and had destroyed all the contemporary space launch infrastructure which is why they used the old shuttle, and if that stuff was destroyed it had to have massively damaged all the many cities that are built on the oceans. Like in an abortion metaphor this is a baby that is actively killing the mother, but you just have to have hope that it all magically turns out fine(millions dead).
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Feb 11, 2024 19:04
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DoctorWhat posted:Harness and maybe Moffat clearly had a cute idea that the real world audience would turn their lights on/off to "vote" when it aired, making it into a television event. I was tempted to turn my television off alright
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Feb 11, 2024 19:52
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Wait, who said anything about genociding the moon-creature's species? It's literally just one individual, the episode's not called Kill All The Moons. For all anyone knows it's the only individual
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Feb 11, 2024 20:20
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| # ? May 24, 2024 05:52 |
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If it was the only moon whale and the entire universe would have shunned us for killing it, they should have sent someone to explain what was going on
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Feb 11, 2024 21:12
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