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Eric the Mauve posted:
FMLA won't kick in if she's been there less than 12 months. There is some risk there but I would imagine if she's going into management most places wouldn't can a visible new team member for being pregnant. But her protections are very limited seeing as she won't have hit the year mark (there may be state specific protections here I am not aware of though) regardless: Adhemar posted:Telling a potential employer that you’re a member of a protected class actually also puts them in legal jeopardy. It creates an incentive for them to find a legitimate reason not to hire you so they can avoid a potential tough legal situation. I worked at a very large tech company and we were taught a specific phrase to say if someone brought up something like that (and of course to never ask about it ourselves).
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Feb 12, 2024 16:54
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Lockback posted:FMLA won't kick in if she's been there less than 12 months. There is some risk there but I would imagine if she's going into management most places wouldn't can a visible new team member for being pregnant. But her protections are very limited seeing as she won't have hit the year mark (there may be state specific protections here I am not aware of though) Yeah good point. Just a wrong semantic choice by me though, practically it's the same--she'll be out on unpaid leave and they can't legally shitcan her during it because it would legally constitute sexual discrimination.
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Feb 12, 2024 19:20
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Deathlove posted:I've never had a union job before, and I'm gonna necro this post to see if I can get some more info on this sort of thing. I interviewed with my local school district for a job and got the call from the guy I interviewed with that they were going to recommend me to HR for hiring, so, that's cool. The money they listed on the ad is trash, and I was thinking well, that's the gig, public schools, kinda gotta deal with it. But perhaps I should reach out to the union ( https://ieanea.org/ ) and say hey, it looks like I'm getting X job with Y school district, can you give me an idea of what the offer is going to be, and what's negotiable? That's actually a thing? I don't know how Illinois works, but in California, the actual bargaining unit is at the district level.
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Feb 12, 2024 19:48
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Adhemar posted:I worked at a very large tech company and we were taught a specific phrase to say if someone brought up something like that (and of course to never ask about it ourselves). so what was the phrase?
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Feb 12, 2024 20:41
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Don’t remember verbatim, I never had to use it thankfully, but it was something like: “Thank you for sharing that information, I won’t use it to evaluate your suitability for the role.”
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Feb 12, 2024 21:42
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I would much rather acquire a good manager and ensure their loyalty by supporting their parental leave early in their tenure than sift through a bunch of yokels and idiots.
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Feb 13, 2024 20:30
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I would much rather acquire a good manager and ensure their loyalty by supporting their parental leave early in their tenure than sift through a bunch of yokels and idiots. No joke, I had a string of women engineers who went on maternity leave and my feedback on that was you lost them for a reasonably short period and in return you get someone who is going to value stability, not particularly be concerned about anything beyond their own scope, and you get ridiculous amounts of goodwill by doing pretty basic human things. Just from a business and personnel perspective it always seemed like a pretty substantial net win.
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Feb 13, 2024 21:12
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I wouldn't limit that to just women. I live in a civilized state that has paid parental leave for both parents, and I had a 3 month paternity leave last year. And yeah, now I've got some new life priorities that make job hopping less appealing and not on my mind as much.
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Feb 13, 2024 21:25
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Leave policies do vary, as well. We aren't eligible for (full) parental leave until 12 months after start of employment, but we are able to take parental leave with a start date up to 12 months after the birth of a kid. So in this situation your wife would start, not be eligible for full parental leave when the child was born, but then able to take the remainder of her leave once she hit her 12 month anniversary, Situation is also rendered more complex by Are Fair Commonweal's generous (by American standards) mandatory state-funded parental leave. I don't know exactly how they interface but I am in the process of Experiential Learning.
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Feb 13, 2024 21:27
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Yeah having a baby rolled my desire to job hop down to about 0 My daycare is near my house and the only variable I have in my life right now is how bad a mood my kid is in when she wakes up We actually just hired a guy in January who's having a baby here in February. He's going to work here until he dies, probably Edit: Tangentially related but I suggest doing staggered family leave with like 2 weeks of overlap, a) it's awesome and b) childcare for kids under 6 months is ludicrously expensive Also take as much unpaid leave as your workplace will allow, on top of PTO, you don't get those days/weeks back Hadlock fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Feb 13, 2024 |
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Feb 13, 2024 21:53
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Lockback posted:No joke, I had a string of women engineers who went on maternity leave and my feedback on that was you lost them for a reasonably short period and in return you get someone who is going to value stability, not particularly be concerned about anything beyond their own scope, and you get ridiculous amounts of goodwill by doing pretty basic human things. Just from a business and personnel perspective it always seemed like a pretty substantial net win. This is another thing about my current place that I feel actual, legitimate loyalty over. When my wife had our daughter, not only did I get paternity leave, but they extended it for well over a year because of the pandemic. "Your kid is more important than anything here," paraphrasing my boss at the time. He basically came out and said to work when I can and take care of my newborn as needed, no coming into the office for you for the foreseeable future. They treated me extremely well, and for the most part (up until very recently during the RTO pushed by our mothership) have been very understanding about child stuff. It's a good feeling and is worth hanging around for.
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Feb 13, 2024 22:08
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Not a negotiation question per se but I am starting a new job on the 18th. We didn’t have to negotiate because I was very happy with the starting salary they offered. The recruiter at the time mentioned that there are guaranteed salary increases after 2 years and 4 years of employment. Unfortunately, I didn’t ask what those increases would be at the time, and now I’m wondering what they are so I can plan financially around these step ups. Given I haven’t even started the job yet, would it be appropriate to ask what those salary increases are now, or should I wait until I’m on the job? Technically I am still in the credentialing process, failure of which could result in withdrawal of my offer, so I don’t want to do anything too uncouth.
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Feb 14, 2024 16:13
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If you do ask, make sure to get them in writing otherwise they're simply empty promises.
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Feb 14, 2024 16:16
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You could hedge by asking for a written comp & benefits summary/brochure for your records, but I'm guessing it wouldn't be listed in there even if it is a written and acknowledged policy elsewhere since it's not as relevant in theory for a new employee onboarding.
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Feb 14, 2024 16:19
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Blurb3947 posted:If you do ask, make sure to get them in writing otherwise they're simply empty promises. Them writing it down doesn't really mean much either. "Our processes changed" is all that needs to be said. In a situation like that you wouldn't be able to sue for a pay increase or anything. I'd actually take a more casual approach. "Hey you mentioned pay reviews were at 2 and 4 years, can you explain more about that? How does that typically work?" That might give you an idea. Process here is less important than attitude and intent. You can have pay reviews every 6 months but if the outcome is always "we ain't giving you poo poo" then the process doesn't really matter.
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Feb 14, 2024 21:29
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Lockback posted:Them writing it down doesn't really mean much either. "Our processes changed" is all that needs to be said. In a situation like that you wouldn't be able to sue for a pay increase or anything. This is a good approach and asking for a pay guarantee in writing is silly unless it's very regimented as part of a CBA or similar.
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Feb 14, 2024 21:35
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To add as an employer I'd take someone asking about a process that takes 2-4 years to go through as a positive and someone who is looking to stick around if at all possible. So I don't think there's a good reason not to casually ask.
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Feb 14, 2024 23:30
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Lockback posted:To add as an employer I'd take someone asking about a process that takes 2-4 years to go through as a positive and someone who is looking to stick around if at all possible. So I don't think there's a good reason not to casually ask. This crossed my mind too! I’m going to just ask politely, emphasizing just that “hey I’m trying to be here for a while and you mentioned this…” Thanks gang, I was probably overthinking this one but appreciate the backup
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Feb 15, 2024 00:32
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It's so easy to overthink things when it comes to jobs, because for us it's a lot in the line with bills to pay and families to support But for the hiring manager or HR person, it's just another Thursday
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Feb 15, 2024 00:43
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Chewbecca posted:It's so easy to overthink things when it comes to jobs, because for us it's a lot in the line with bills to pay and families to support No. Do you know how much work someone quitting causes? It sucks poo poo.
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Feb 15, 2024 06:05
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What why
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Feb 15, 2024 06:23
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Parallelwoody posted:No. Do you know how much work someone quitting causes? It sucks poo poo. Okay but I meant more in the context of a prospective employee asking the hiring manager or HR person a question about benefits. Neither of those people are likely to say "what an outrageous question, how dare you, job withdrawn, suck poo poo" That's all I meant, people quitting has nothing to do with it?
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Feb 15, 2024 06:48
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Oh yeah my bad I misread it, apologies. Absolutely ask about benefits - there should be at least one person in HR who's entire job it is to cover that stuff, and as long as they aren't poop from a butt, they'll be happy to discuss the entire package, especially things you may not realize they offer. It's highlighting the things the business is already spending money on in order to get you/keep you/make you happy (and more productive by extension). Utilization is also important, so if there is a good benefit but nobody uses it, it's likely to get the ax.
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Feb 15, 2024 08:02
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hobbez posted:This crossed my mind too! I'm not exactly HR, but anytime I'm interviewing people, it's usually a good sign that they're engaged and interested in benefits and what the job is like and longer-term employment concerns.
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Feb 15, 2024 08:59
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I got hosed over yesterday. I'm working helldesk on a military research base as a contractor. The company I work for posted a position for the Cybersec team in the same room I work in. They posted the job with a pay range of 45-60k. My last job was cybersec, I only took this helldesk job because I was unemployed and needed SOMETHING at the time. 60k is more than I was making, I figured I could push for it. I get accepted, get the paperwork for the transfer. They offer me 55k. I counter with 60k, and explain that 55k, while slightly more than my helldesk pay, still leaves me struggling financially. I get called down to the contract manager, who is looking upset. Dude appears to legitimately feel bad, but he explains that the contract is "Fixed Rate" and the government set salary ranges on every position - ones that can't be exceeded. 55k is the cap for both helldesk AND cybersec analyst roles. Worse, he tells me that a coworker in helldesk just put in his 2 weeks a few days before he called me down. Contract states that helldesk MUST be fully manned, which means they can't even transfer me on schedule. I had been training up a rookie to replace me, and they are now being used to backfill the person leaving. They now need to find another replacement person to backfill me before I can be moved. I'm now trying to figure out if it's even legal for this company to have advertised the position as paying more than they could actually offer. And I am loving PISSED that I'm stuck doing helldesk even longer because I missed the window for signing the transfer agreement by a few minutes because I thought that the company had room to negotiate.
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Feb 15, 2024 15:07
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Twice in my career I've asked at an interview about bennies and been told "you will receive our benefits info packet if an offer is made, we will not discuss that at this stage." OK, fella. That tells me everything I need to know about the bennies, and about this company in general for that matter. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Feb 15, 2024 |
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Feb 15, 2024 15:11
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Eric the Mauve posted:Twice in my career I've asked at an interview about bennies and been told "you will receive our benefits info packet if an offer is made, we will not discuss that at this stage." I don't think that's abnormal. I don't think we disclose our benefits until an offer. It's part of the offer itself, just like the salary. Not specifically directed at you, but "bennies" makes my skin crawl. It's big time HR drone language. Just say benefits like a normal person.
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Feb 15, 2024 15:15
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chin up everything sucks posted:I'm now trying to figure out if it's even legal for this company to have advertised the position as paying more than they could actually offer. And I am loving PISSED that I'm stuck doing helldesk even longer because I missed the window for signing the transfer agreement by a few minutes because I thought that the company had room to negotiate. The key takeaway from that conversation is that you are never leaving the helldesk so long as you are there. Your options are make your peace with that, or follow your erstwhile coworker's example and look for your exit.
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Feb 15, 2024 15:21
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I don't think that's abnormal. I don't think we disclose our benefits until an offer. It's part of the offer itself, just like the salary. I can't recall not getting detailed information pre-offer. Sometimes I've even gotten the same packet that employees get.
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Feb 15, 2024 15:23
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Also they have room to negotiate, they just have no reason to negotiate with you because they know you're taking more money for a better job. Your BATNA sucks. They gave you a line so everyone can save a little face and they can save some money. Honestly they ain't wrong, either. If you think your market is higher then go and prove it. They're simply betting that you won't.
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Feb 15, 2024 15:25
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I don't think that's abnormal. I don't think we disclose our benefits until an offer. It's part of the offer itself, just like the salary. If someone asks I'll usually give a unofficial "This isn't part of an offer but our health insurance is pretty standard and ok, maybe a B or B+, we do 22 days of PTO to start and w/e holidays we have. A few more things like pet insurance and $3000 (I think) in education reimbursed". So if your benefits are at least ok someone will give you highlights even if the nitty gritty don't come until an offer. The only time I can think of where I got stonewalled was where the health insurance was astronomically bad.
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Feb 15, 2024 15:31
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Lockback posted:If someone asks I'll usually give a unofficial "This isn't part of an offer but our health insurance is pretty standard and ok, maybe a B or B+, we do 22 days of PTO to start and w/e holidays we have. A few more things like pet insurance and $3000 (I think) in education reimbursed". So if your benefits are at least ok someone will give you highlights even if the nitty gritty don't come until an offer. The only time I can think of where I got stonewalled was where the health insurance was astronomically bad. Yeah for sure, this is also what I do. But we wouldn't give prospective hires the actual benefits package documents. I don't really know why, probably so it's not just floating around loose in the wild in case there are changes.
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Feb 15, 2024 15:35
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I don't think that's abnormal. I don't think we disclose our benefits until an offer. It's part of the offer itself, just like the salary. i had one that refused to disclose benefits with the rest of the offer once
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Feb 15, 2024 15:51
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leper khan posted:i had one that refused to disclose benefits with the rest of the offer once ok now that is hosed
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Feb 15, 2024 15:52
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Yeah for sure, this is also what I do. But we wouldn't give prospective hires the actual benefits package documents. I don't really know why, probably so it's not just floating around loose in the wild in case there are changes. I think so its not floating around and so it's all together in case things change. If you had a sheet for pre-offer candidates you know some moron would be sending around the sheet from 2014 and potentially cause some problems.
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Feb 15, 2024 16:12
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leper khan posted:i had one that refused to disclose benefits with the rest of the offer once As the resident HR Drone, Lmao, and also, Lol.
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Feb 15, 2024 16:17
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I don't think that's abnormal. I don't think we disclose our benefits until an offer. It's part of the offer itself, just like the salary. This would be a pretty solid red flag for me. The only rational way to interpret this is that your benefits suck
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Feb 15, 2024 17:35
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All employees in Australia are owed the minimum as set out in the National Employment Standards. Any contract in Australia can't exclude rights outlined by the NES. It's comforting to know these standards exist and aren't benefits to be negotiated away.
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Feb 15, 2024 19:31
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hobbez posted:This would be a pretty solid red flag for me. The only rational way to interpret this is that your benefits suck salary isn't disclosed in the interview either, so why should the other part of compensation be disclosed?
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Feb 15, 2024 19:43
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leper khan posted:i had one that refused to disclose benefits with the rest of the offer once On the other hand a recent interview started out by listing all the benefits available and advising me on how to maximise them from day one. That was kind of nice.
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Feb 15, 2024 19:55
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