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500excf type r posted:First hand experience. My haircut wasn't free and neither were my Nike pegasus running shoes but since it was like day 2 we were provided with an advance out of our paycheck. Good news though: that paycheck you got an advance out of also had a clothing allowance on it at some point during your initial entry, in addition to basic pay. If they never gave you a clothing allowance at all, that sucks, you should do a pay inquiry if you’re still in.
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Feb 14, 2024 03:17
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mlmp08 posted:Good news though: that paycheck you got an advance out of also had a clothing allowance on it at some point during your initial entry, in addition to basic pay. You're still swiping a card and buying your own shoes, who cares how the money dorks justify it
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Feb 14, 2024 03:18
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Coming soon: Buy your own ammo and just claim your bullets back on next year's tax return as a work related deductible. Pilots are going to love how this works with air ordinance.
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Feb 14, 2024 03:32
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Slavvy posted:Christ I hope you're getting paid for this One meal voucher per 1000 words, a pair of runners every 10 posts
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Feb 14, 2024 03:49
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Hatebag posted:it would be an absolutely insane allocation of resources to have a dedicated something awful guy, but given the rest of this thread, not unrealistic. Brown Moses did start all this poo poo, the evil gently caress
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Feb 14, 2024 04:29
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Owlbear Camus posted:The U.S. Army had a message for 1st Lt. William "Eddie" Rebrook: Before he could leave the Army, he had to pay for body armor vest he lost. Medics destroyed the vest because it was soaked with Rebrook's blood when he was wounded. The Army demanded $632 to replace it. Rebrook's friends helped raise the money. After a senator asked questions, the Army promises a refund. scientology does this when you leave
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Feb 14, 2024 05:03
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https://twitter.com/orikron/status/1757229709425774795 behold the iranian powerpoint game
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Feb 14, 2024 05:47
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im p sure that the us will lose ww3 partly because the defenders of the system keep insisting that nickel-and-diming your own soldiers is somehow not a colossally dumbshit idea
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Feb 14, 2024 06:24
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Cerebral Bore posted:im p sure that the us will lose ww3 partly because the defenders of the system keep insisting that nickel-and-diming your own soldiers is somehow not a colossally dumbshit idea we will have the troops eat bugs what's the problem
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Feb 14, 2024 06:25
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Cerebral Bore posted:im p sure that the us will lose ww3 partly because the defenders of the system keep insisting that nickel-and-diming your own soldiers is somehow not a colossally dumbshit idea tbf this has been militaries for the entirety of human history, it’s why navies until the 19th century resorted to enslavement to man the ships e: the Boston massacre occurred in part because British soldiers had to take second jobs to be able to afford to live and collapsed the city’s job market Raskolnikov38 has issued a correction as of 06:32 on Feb 14, 2024 |
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Feb 14, 2024 06:29
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Why do cops get constant pay raises and quintuple overtime to do security at the school prom but not the troops?
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Feb 14, 2024 06:35
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Welp, this last discussion convinced me to do some googling, and this: https://www.goarmy.com/benefits/while-you-serve/money-pay.html Is going to destroy the Great Satan more thoroughly than the forces of resistance ever could. Seriously, your Sergeants are paid less than dipshit-tier computer touchers in Canada (source: I am one of those).
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Feb 14, 2024 06:37
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Lustful Man Hugs posted:Welp, this last discussion convinced me to do some googling, and this: Ahahaha. Haha. Hah. This is awful. I didn't realise it was actual poverty wages over there. I thought there was some hyperbole going on. Nope. No wonder they literally can't afford to eat properly. By way of comparison this is Australia: https://app.adfcareers.gov.au/suppo...47%2C296%20p.a. Recruit during basic military training: $54,216 p.a. And for the record I never paid for any of my field gear, just for extra dress uniforms as needed. Granted that was a while ago now. Yes I did pay barracks rations, it was drat cheap so I always opted in. DancingShade has issued a correction as of 06:50 on Feb 14, 2024 |
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Feb 14, 2024 06:45
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im_sorry posted:Oh good. I was starting to worry that there would be a nuclear war again. Good thing to know that when they press The Button, the only thing coming out of the silos will be a poof of dust and a flaccid burp. Imagine how many Minuteman missile launch crews will refuse to fire because one of the operators is afraid they'll be charged for the missile.
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Feb 14, 2024 06:58
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unexpected ufo/ww3 thread crossover   https://flvoicenews.com/florida-rep-luna-to-file-schumer-act-requiring-representatives-fight-in-war-they-advocate-for/
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Feb 14, 2024 07:07
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Atrocious Joe posted:Imagine how many Minuteman missile launch crews will refuse to fire because one of the operators is afraid they'll be charged for the missile. I mean, it's one missile. What could it cost? Ten dollars?
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Feb 14, 2024 07:10
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Delta-Wye posted:unexpected ufo/ww3 thread crossover That's a great act. If you vote for it you get deployed to the frontline, no exceptions. No health related exemptions, no nothing. Off you go. Obviously it will never happen.
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Feb 14, 2024 07:15
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Pulcinella posted:Why do cops get constant pay raises and quintuple overtime to do security at the school prom but not the troops? Because the united states is a police state.
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Feb 14, 2024 07:32
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Flournival Dixon posted:lmfao that rules so hard https://twitter.com/halalflow/status/1757491543278014644?t=6oE6wY87pHkRGjzv6zgnqA&s=19 John Kirby disagrees with you.
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Feb 14, 2024 07:47
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Votskomit posted:https://twitter.com/halalflow/status/1757491543278014644?t=6oE6wY87pHkRGjzv6zgnqA&s=19 Both of those thumbnails have the look of a scared man desperate to not be where he is standing.
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Feb 14, 2024 08:03
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DancingShade posted:Ahahaha. Haha. Hah. This is awful. I didn't realise it was actual poverty wages over there. I thought there was some hyperbole going on. Nope. No wonder they literally can't afford to eat properly. Several years ago, my uni lecturer was asked to help the Australian Defence Force with a clinical study in injury prevention, since so many new recruits were getting hurt. For the clinical trial, half of the basic training period was my uni's research method, the other half was exactly the same as the usual ADF fitness training. Keep in mind that my uni's study was very simple with minimal equipment: basic recruits were from all walks of life with a very wide range of fitness/exercise experience, so it had to be simple. The study was fairly successful at reducing injuries, but the biggest issue they found was...dealing with whinging ADF Physical Training Instructors or PTIs. Most of them at the time tended to just yell at new recruits in basic training to do stuff faster, regardless of how dangerous or unsafe they were doing the exercise. With the trial, they actually had to do their job & somewhat monitor new recruit exercise technique: they also had to give very simple safety instructions, like "Don't arch & use your back to lift, use your legs like this, this is a squatting exercise, not a back one". He had an actual conversation with one PTI who asked repeatedly "Why can't we just yell at them to do situps faster like we always do? Why are you making life so hard for us?" Again, they only had to follow the clinical study exercises for a few weeks, the other few weeks were the usual ADF stuff. Apparently asking PTIs to do the bare minimum of what they're being paid to do, is very, very hard  On a more related note, I was approached a while ago by a cold calling ADF recruiter thanks to work social media. Whilst the ADF has employed my profession specifically as civilian contractors* for injured personnel with long term injuries in the past, I think (happy to be corrected by more knowledgeable goons) they've now stopped this practice in favour of making everyone have to do a year of officer training? The recruiter asked me why I wouldn't want to do spend a large amount of time doing officer's training, as I'd get 47K once I finished. I said that not only is that quite a lot less than what a new grad in my field gets straight of uni, (I'm definitely not a new grad), but spending a year doing officer's training at my age before being allowed to officially do what I already do for living, isn't that appealing. I asked if the ADF still had a civilian contractor role for my profession like they did in the past, he said he had "no idea", but was quite offended at me asking this. * Yes, contractors are dodgy as gently caress, but I'm nearly 40 with permanent physical impairments: if I have to join the ADF, I'd prefer to be a civilian contractor doing the same exact thing that I already do for a living, rather than risking my health further crawling in the mud & climbing up rain soaked ropes for a year at majorly reduced pay. Call me pampered, but screw that.
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Feb 14, 2024 09:10
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Livo posted:Several years ago, my uni lecturer was asked to help the Australian Defence Force with a clinical study in injury prevention, since so many new recruits were getting hurt. For the clinical trial, half of the basic training period was my uni's research method, the other half was exactly the same as the usual ADF fitness training. Keep in mind that my uni's study was very simple with minimal equipment: basic recruits were from all walks of life with a very wide range of fitness/exercise experience, so it had to be simple. The study was fairly successful at reducing injuries, but the biggest issue they found was...dealing with whinging ADF Physical Training Instructors or PTIs. Most of them at the time tended to just yell at new recruits in basic training to do stuff faster, regardless of how dangerous or unsafe they were doing the exercise. With the trial, they actually had to do their job & somewhat monitor new recruit exercise technique: they also had to give very simple safety instructions, like "Don't arch & use your back to lift, use your legs like this, this is a squatting exercise, not a back one". He had an actual conversation with one PTI who asked repeatedly "Why can't we just yell at them to do situps faster like we always do? Why are you making life so hard for us?" Again, they only had to follow the clinical study exercises for a few weeks, the other few weeks were the usual ADF stuff. Apparently asking PTIs to do the bare minimum of what they're being paid to do, is very, very hard You're a great example of a person who has an in demand skill and oh look the compensation for your trade is actually dogshit compared to what you can make in the real world. Also you have to put up with a whole lot of added bother & bullshit just to even get that. But you get to wear a fancy hat I guess so there is that appeal. Protip: If you want to see how good that fancy hat is go out drinking after an ANZAC parade, find a bar full of soldiers and ask yourself how many look happy. No not immediately after, give it an hour or two. DancingShade has issued a correction as of 09:24 on Feb 14, 2024 |
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Feb 14, 2024 09:21
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Hey don't sweat it some of the most famous soldiers in history had to pay for their own gear, like the Landsknechts. They were well trained, highly disciplined fighters, especially noted for their flexible loyalty. And as we know, flexibility is important on a modern battlefield. What could possibly go wrong?
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Feb 14, 2024 09:24
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One odd thing is that when I enlisted in the post 9/11 fervor and even when deployed in 2005, I never paid for meals at the dining facility or had money taken out for that. Whatever policy they implemented in 2002 must have been slow rolled out or something. Hell, when I was deployed I recall some folks getting an absurd amount, like almost $10k extra a month, because their post didn't have a dining facility so they had to buy all their meals locally. It's funny cause I actually credit my time in the service with making young me socialist, cause it clearly demonstrated that food, housing, and healthcare did not have to be market bound commodities. People having to pay for their meals in the military sounds incredibly stupid and backwards so lol lmao to that. Of course it's hard to retain people when they strip the biggest benefits out of service.
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Feb 14, 2024 09:39
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Livo posted:The recruiter asked me why I wouldn't want to do spend a large amount of time doing officer's training, as I'd get 47K once I finished. for reference for everyone the Australian minimum wage is 45k for a full time employee. if you don’t mind awful work in unpleasant circumstances you can make 90k cleaning donga dunnies FIFO in the mining industry with no skills except patience and nose plugs. I’d be surprised if there is still an Australian army by the time this mining boom cycles through.
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Feb 14, 2024 09:40
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Livo posted:With the trial, they actually had to do their job & somewhat monitor new recruit exercise technique: they also had to give very simple safety instructions, like "Don't arch & use your back to lift, use your legs like this, this is a squatting exercise, not a back one". He had an actual conversation with one PTI who asked repeatedly "Why can't we just yell at them to do situps faster like we always do? Why are you making life so hard for us?" Again, they only had to follow the clinical study exercises for a few weeks, the other few weeks were the usual ADF stuff. Apparently asking PTIs to do the bare minimum of what they're being paid to do, is very, very hard
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Feb 14, 2024 09:51
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bobtheconqueror posted:One odd thing is that when I enlisted in the post 9/11 fervor and even when deployed in 2005, I never paid for meals at the dining facility or had money taken out for that. Whatever policy they implemented in 2002 must have been slow rolled out or something. You absolutely did, you just don't remember it. Everyone is given BAS and if you live in barracks and eat at a dfac 95% of it is deducted. You have a meal card, you have to sign in, etc. in basic training, you probably had to sound off to a civilian cashier with your last four every single meal. Even at a biv site with tubs of food bought out, your name is still be checked off on a list.
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Feb 14, 2024 12:07
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500excf type r posted:You absolutely did, you just don't remember it. Everyone is given BAS and if you live in barracks and eat at a dfac 95% of it is deducted. You have a meal card, you have to sign in, etc. in basic training, you probably had to sound off to a civilian cashier with your last four every single meal. Even at a biv site with tubs of food bought out, your name is still be checked off on a list. I can assure you I did none of those things. I was a army reservist though, and we got everything last lmao. There was no meal card or sounding off my last four, including when I was deployed on active duty. I would have to presume that stuff was implemented over time, cause I swear none of that was a thing for me. The meals were free, and I didn't have a BAS when I was deployed, specifically because there was a dining facility on post. I mean I remember having cashiers that would check ID during AIT similar to like a school cafeteria, because they did charge like civilian contractors, but when I was in they weren't charging me for the food. BAS just wasn't a thing. I was not charged for meals. I was definitely not sounding off my last four for meals every day in basic. bobtheconqueror has issued a correction as of 12:52 on Feb 14, 2024 |
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Feb 14, 2024 12:28
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Livo posted:Several years ago, my uni lecturer was asked to help the Australian Defence Force with a clinical study in injury prevention, since so many new recruits were getting hurt. For the clinical trial, half of the basic training period was my uni's research method, the other half was exactly the same as the usual ADF fitness training. Keep in mind that my uni's study was very simple with minimal equipment: basic recruits were from all walks of life with a very wide range of fitness/exercise experience, so it had to be simple. The study was fairly successful at reducing injuries, but the biggest issue they found was...dealing with whinging ADF Physical Training Instructors or PTIs. Most of them at the time tended to just yell at new recruits in basic training to do stuff faster, regardless of how dangerous or unsafe they were doing the exercise. With the trial, they actually had to do their job & somewhat monitor new recruit exercise technique: they also had to give very simple safety instructions, like "Don't arch & use your back to lift, use your legs like this, this is a squatting exercise, not a back one". He had an actual conversation with one PTI who asked repeatedly "Why can't we just yell at them to do situps faster like we always do? Why are you making life so hard for us?" Again, they only had to follow the clinical study exercises for a few weeks, the other few weeks were the usual ADF stuff. Apparently asking PTIs to do the bare minimum of what they're being paid to do, is very, very hard the ADF has heard your concerns and today has floated a scheme to reduce all the injuries the new recruits suffer https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/defence-force-under-stress-as-chief-reveals-true-extent-of-staff-crisis-20240214-p5f4xp.html Defence Force under ‘stress’ as chief reveals true extent of staff crisis quote:The ADF’s chief of personnel, Lieutenant General Natasha Fox, said it typically took 300 days to get a recruit into service, but the organisation wanted to slash that to 100 days with help from a new recruitment contractor. bonus lol: quote:Campbell conceded there were flaws in the process that allowed Fijian colonel Penioni (Ben) Naliva to serve as deputy commander of the Australian Army’s 7th Brigade in Queensland.
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Feb 14, 2024 12:35
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500excf type r posted:You absolutely did, you just don't remember it. Everyone is given BAS and if you live in barracks and eat at a dfac 95% of it is deducted. You have a meal card, you have to sign in, etc. in basic training, you probably had to sound off to a civilian cashier with your last four every single meal. Even at a biv site with tubs of food bought out, your name is still be checked off on a list. What do we got Will Stencil here
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Feb 14, 2024 12:36
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bobtheconqueror posted:I can assure you I did none of those things. I was a army reservist though, and we got everything last lmao. There was no meal card or sounding off my last four, including when I was deployed on active duty. I would have to presume that stuff was implemented over time, cause I swear none of that was a thing for me. The meals were free, and I didn't have a BAS when I was deployed, specifically because there was a dining facility on post. What do you think the civilian cashier in the basic training dfac you had to check in with was doing lol Go find one of your pay statements from that era and you will absolutely see an entitlement for BAS and a nearly identical deduction for BAS. Edit: A married soldier that lives off post and a single soldier that lives in the barracks go to the dfac together after PT. The single soldier shows his meal card, the married soldier is charged cash and pays on the spot. Both soldiers are given BAS but the single soldiers BAS is deducted because they're issued a meal card which is the cash equivalent that "buys" meals at the dfac. 500excf type r has issued a correction as of 13:07 on Feb 14, 2024 |
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Feb 14, 2024 12:55
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500excf type r posted:First hand experience. My haircut wasn't free and neither were my Nike pegasus running shoes but since it was like day 2 we were provided with an advance out of our paycheck. paying for a haircut lmao
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Feb 14, 2024 13:06
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500excf type r posted:What do you think the civilian cashier in the basic training dfac you had to check in with was doing lol I mean if the implementation is literally "we add and deduct money from your pay based on meals eaten" then that's functionally free meals, so there's not a difference there. In basic there wasn't even a cashier, but we also didn't exactly choose when to eat so it probably was all handled or tracked on the back end. I was still never expected to pay for meals at the point of sale, and it sounds like if there's meal cards or some poo poo nowadays that's a different situation, especially if it's not kept up over time.
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Feb 14, 2024 13:08
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bobtheconqueror posted:I mean if the implementation is literally "we add and deduct money from your pay based on meals eaten" then that's functionally free meals, so there's not a difference there. In basic there wasn't even a cashier, but we also didn't exactly choose when to eat so it probably was all handled or tracked on the back end. You were expected to pay for your meals at point of sale, if you didn't have BAS deducted you would have been charged cash. Just like the civilian contractors you previously mentioned. Your experience as a weekend warrior likely insulated you from it ever being an issue but for regular army soldiers it has and continues to be a problem. I complained to my brigade commander directly in 2005 about our dfac being closed on the weekends and how this affected soldiers in the barracks and managed to convince him to have ours open every weekend from there on out.
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Feb 14, 2024 13:24
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It's weird cause back in 2005 they had per diem and cola stuff to handle when folks didn't have reliable access to dining facilities, which is why it seems worse now. Again, I didn't get anything extra when deployed, but we had other folks in our deployment that basically rigged the system to get insane amounts of extra pay because there wasn't a dining facility on their base. Yeah I'd be pissed too if the dining facilities were closed on the weekends without some kind of additional per diem pay for soldiers.
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Feb 14, 2024 13:32
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back in the day when i was a dipshit conscript they marched us down to the mess hall four times a day where we got to eat slop on the government's dime and that's how we liked it by gum
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Feb 14, 2024 13:39
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I don't understand how you guys are so blase about this - even if the system is administered rationally, it's completely irrational. If you take the President's dollar, to loving die for the country, there should be no question of you being fed, clothed and housed for free. Having little deductions in your pay statement so it doesn't feel like you're paying for it, or "you're basically not paying for it (because they take it out before they pay you)" is still loving insane.
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Feb 14, 2024 13:41
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drat these meal plans touch alot of nerves. What if you lose the meal card?
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Feb 14, 2024 13:42
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Cerebral Bore posted:back in the day when i was a dipshit conscript they marched us down to the mess hall four times a day where we got to eat slop on the government's dime and that's how we liked it by gum Lmao what I'm saying is that was very close to my exact experience even if there was some kind of pay scheme on the back end. And yeah even when deployed I didn't have some kind of meal card. I don't know why it was handled differently in my unit or maybe it was because of the hospital setting. Frosted Flake posted:I don't understand how you guys are so blase about this - even if the system is administered rationally, it's completely irrational. It's logistics, I think? When you get to full time soldiers on bases integrated into communities, it can't be expected that the soldiers are going to always eat at dining facilities, so a stipend for food makes sense. Similarly, dining facilities are going to be serving folks like civilian contractors who do not qualify for free meals so there's a reason to have a pay structure there as well, so you end up with a system that nominally charges folks while reimbursing them in their pay. It is kind of insane, because we could absolutely just give a stipend via per diem or cola without the financial weirdness of BAS, but I think the logistical challenge of having a mixed civilian/military population is probably where the rationalization comes from. bobtheconqueror has issued a correction as of 14:02 on Feb 14, 2024 |
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Feb 14, 2024 13:42
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Look the pay isn't much but you get three hots* and a cot.** *if the dining facility is open **the cot has so much black mold myconologists from the university have taken interest I was going to say it will be interesting to see how much more they can poo poo on troops without them saying "no" but given recruitment and reenlistment numbers it's exactly as much as they are. I suspect I was in the last generation to join up when there was any nationalist or civic sentiment motivation in it besides just being a poverty draft. For my part though I just didn't know what to do after high school.
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Feb 14, 2024 13:54
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