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If a Battletech novel is not titled (Noun) of (Nouns), is it even canon
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Feb 14, 2024 04:03
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GD_American posted:If a Battletech novel is not titled (Noun) of (Nouns), is it even canon Close Quarters 
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Feb 14, 2024 04:06
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LaSquida posted:Close Quarters The Price of Glory Blood of Heroes Assumption of Risk Tactics of Duty Impetus of War Shadows of War Threads of Ambition Ghost of Winter Roar of Honor Illusions of Victory Measure of A Hero Path of Glory Test of Vengeance Call of Duty Storms of Fate Embers of War Betrayal of Ideals A Splinter of Hope The Ruins of Power Fortress of Lies Flight of The Falcon Blood of The Isle Hunters of the Deep Target of Opportunity Sword of Sedition Daughter of The Dragon Prinicples of Desolation https://twitter.com/BobJustfkinBob/status/1757600995482190209
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Feb 14, 2024 05:06
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GD_American posted:The Price of Glory Ahem. It's also allowed to title your book "Adjective Noun".
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Feb 14, 2024 11:58
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Okay, that brings in Ideal War. You sold me.
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Feb 14, 2024 13:54
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lilljonas posted:Ahem. It's also allowed to title your book "Adjective Noun". "Urban Mech"
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Feb 14, 2024 14:19
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also Hiro Protagonist is stealing from Neal Stephenson and what kind of absolute hack would do that?
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Feb 14, 2024 14:28
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Nearly every trueborn character in the jade falcon trilogy sucks. How exactly does the blood name grand melee work with aerospace and elementals? Do they get jammed in a random mech?
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Feb 14, 2024 15:21
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ilmucche posted:Nearly every trueborn character in the jade falcon trilogy sucks. Well different bloodnames have different phenotypes so most of the time you're only going to be dealing with a MechWarrior name, an elemental name, and so on. There are a few "general" bloodnames that end up with their names used for all the different phenotypes. If I remember right in one of the Stackpole books Phelan ends up fighting an aerospace fighter for the Ward name in a duel, so in the case of a Grand Melee I'm wondering if they allow that too. Sucks to be an elemental in that case. EDIT: yup, Clans are psychotic, especially the JFs. I enjoyed how Victor Milan had a Sea Fox character in Rending of Falcons point out that Malvina Hazen wasn't a bug to the Clan societal mores, she's a feature. Holybat fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Feb 14, 2024 |
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Feb 14, 2024 15:46
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Holybat posted:Well different bloodnames have different phenotypes so most of the time you're only going to be dealing with a MechWarrior name, an elemental name, and so on. There are a few "general" bloodnames that end up with their names used for all the different phenotypes. If I remember right in one of the Stackpole books Phelan ends up fighting an aerospace fighter for the Ward name in a duel, so in the case of a Grand Melee I'm wondering if they allow that too. Sucks to be an elemental in that case. He fought an Elemental as well. Of course, the Elemental tried a dirty trick and it blew up in his face (literally), so Phelan MarySue won...
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Feb 14, 2024 16:56
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He's not the only person to beat an elemental in a boxing match. They're not unstoppable, they're just durable and make a lot of adrenaline. Phelan beating an Elemental after a year of daily CQC training with Evantha Fetladral isn't really an issue. She is bloodnamed and unusually skilled. Of all the viewpoint characters in the Blood of Kerensky Trilogy, I'd contend that Phelan is actually the least Mary Sue. He has actual flaws and it's obvious that that Ulric is abusing them to manipulate the gently caress out of him. Phelan is supposed to be a bit of an idiot douchebag. It's Ulric who's Stackpole's author stand-in, not Phelan. Victor and Kai are much harder to defend despite them both being the living embodiments of the opposite ends of the Dunning-Kruger Effect spectrum. In Victor's case that was unintentional and in Kai's case it's uninteresting. Grand Melees are always augmented, so Elementals and Pilots have their BattleArmor and Fighter respectively. For mixed Grand Melees, the Pilots have a certain maneuvering circle they're not allowed to leave and Elementals basically have to hide and hope they don't get found by someone with an Active Probe before nearly everyone else dies. Elementals don't do well in the Grand Melee, but a skilled AeroFighter Pilot can easily sweep them provided there aren't many other pilots involved. AeroSpace is very hard for 'Mechs to deal with. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) the Clan Way basically discourages the "smart play" necessary for an Elemental or Pilot to ever win a mixed grand melee. The Elemental will charge someone and die, and the Pilot won't fight conservatively and will take chip damage from the entire battle until they eventually crash. Grand Melees really are down to pure dumb luck, and the odds of anyone winning a bloodname after a Grand Melee are almost nill. The fact that Aidan Pryde did it (in the worst book of the Jade Phoenix trilogy) is an unusual exception. I have far more mixed feelings about LotJP than I do about any of Phelan's appearances. The first book is so incredibly creepy in mostly good ways, depicting the ways in which Clan society sends its dregs (Joanna) to indoctrinate what would otherwise be normal children and turn them into unrepentant murderers. It's so incredibly hostile to Clan warrior society in a way I really respect... and then Book 2 and Book 3 turn that on their heads and are bizarrely pro-Clan in a way that sort-of ruins the whole trilogy by turning it into a celebration of the life and "heroic last stand" of a brainwashed child soldier who heroically orders the deaths of an entire city of civilians without the slightest hesitation. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Feb 14, 2024 |
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Feb 14, 2024 17:49
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PoptartsNinja posted:He's not the only person to beat an elemental in a boxing match. They're not unstoppable, they're just durable and make a lot of adrenaline. In Lost Destiny, he fought an augmented Elemental during his trials. The Elemental was hiding in a building and had broken a gas main to try to create a crude fuel-air bomb to defeat Phelan.
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Feb 14, 2024 17:55
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'Mech vs. Elemental isn't a fair fight for the Elemental. Elemental vs. Mechwarrior isn't a fair fight for the Mechwarrior. Augmented Pilot vs. anyone else is the same, the Pilot is expected to win a fight where they can use their fighter and lose any fight where they can't. That's why the Clans leave it up to a coin toss. As far as they're concerned, that coin toss before those fights decides the entire match and the actual fight is perfunctory. Whoever is luckiest wins. I thought you were referring to the fight against the unaugmented elemental in Zero-G that I vaguely remember happened, but I admit it's been a few years and the only specifics of Phelan's bloodname trials I remember are: him beating an augmented pilot through sheer dumb luck; him beating an elemental in hand to hand; and his Wolfhound IIC trampling all over Vlad in a fight that heavily implies Vlad's preferred ride was the Adder. The Zero-G Elemental might have been Aidan, come to think of it; but Phelan was already an established Unarmored Elemental Defeater by his bloodname trial.
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Feb 14, 2024 18:10
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PoptartsNinja posted:I have far more mixed feelings about LotJP than I do about any of Phelan's appearances. The first book is so incredibly creepy in mostly good ways, depicting the ways in which Clan society sends its dregs (Joanna) to indoctrinate what would otherwise be normal children and turn them into unrepentant murderers. It's so incredibly hostile to Clan warrior society in a way I really respect... and then Book 2 and Book 3 turn that on their heads and are bizarrely pro-Clan in a way that sort-of ruins the whole trilogy by turning it into a celebration of the life and "heroic last stand" of a brainwashed child soldier who heroically orders the deaths of an entire city of civilians without the slightest hesitation. I think the later Jade Phoenix books can probably be explained by editors saying "what the audience wants is a guy who always wins winning a bunch and then being congratulated on how great he is, not nuance." I got no clue how Falcon Rising got made beyond slapping the TotC label on it so people would be tricked into buying it, though.
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Feb 14, 2024 18:21
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I kind of wish I had a copy of that novel handy at work but iirc Phelan was in a Nova he configured and yeah absolutely lucked out because his brilliant plan involved getting a Narc beacon on the fighter. Phelan you could have made your life a lot easier and just loaded more LB-X to get the lawn dart check Now that I'm thinking about it too, kind of a real dick move on somebody's part (or Phelan being galaxy-brained) because I think his opponent was in a Visigoth too, so he wasn't even in the same tonnage range along with dealing with the problems of a lone mech vs aero fighter EDIT: I'm sure there was a Rifleman IIC he could have used
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Feb 14, 2024 18:32
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I don't think "too much editorial oversight" was a problem with the early fiction. If it was, at least one of Stackpole's trilogies would have had an actual ending. Holybat posted:I kind of wish I had a copy of that novel handy at work but iirc Phelan was in a Nova he configured and yeah absolutely lucked out because his brilliant plan involved getting a Narc beacon on the fighter. Phelan you could have made your life a lot easier and just loaded more LB-X to get the lawn dart check He brought the worst official Nova configuration, yeah. The one that said "we need four of each of these but have no idea what to do with the Nova." That fight would've been much better (thematically) if he'd brought a Rifleman IIC, had all the Clanners scoff at the freebirth bringing "second line equipment," and then levelled the Visigoth with its pulse lasers and anti-aircraft targeting. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Feb 14, 2024 |
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Feb 14, 2024 18:32
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PoptartsNinja posted:He brought the worst official Nova configuration, yeah. The one that said "we need four of each of these but have no idea what to do with the Nova." Lmao I forgot that was a standard Nova configuration, hard to remember anything other than the "all the lasers" or "I guess I need a medium with a couple of ER PPCs"
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Feb 14, 2024 18:39
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Had anyone actually come up with the Rifleman IIC by the time that book was written?
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Feb 14, 2024 19:05
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General Battuta posted:Had anyone actually come up with the Rifleman IIC by the time that book was written? No, before TRO: 3055, the only Clan mechs were the original 13 Omnis. Second-line troops, like in the Twycross scenario pack, relied on having players edit record sheets for 3025 mechs by hand, doing stuff like replacing the PPCs on a WHM-6R with cLPLs.
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Feb 14, 2024 19:18
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Probably not, Rifleman IIC was 3055. The Clans didn't have second line 'Mechs in 1990s. Stackpole just didn't want to put Phelan in an assault 'Mech. IIRC the only time he touched one was the special Dire Wolf that Natasha prepared for him. At that point I think he was still trying to tell a story where assault 'Mechs were rare, so Conal Ward piloting a Gargoyle was a big deal (and not a complete joke) so Phelan beating him with a Wolfhound IIC was also a big deal (and not, y'know. The predictable outcome of that matchup). I think that makes the Wolfhound IIC the first actual IIC to appear in fiction. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Feb 14, 2024 |
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Feb 14, 2024 19:20
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PoptartsNinja posted:Clan society sends its dregs (Joanna)
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Feb 14, 2024 19:45
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PoptartsNinja posted:I think that makes the Wolfhound IIC the first actual IIC to appear in fiction. It is, by a few years. It predates the entire "IIC" nomenclature, which is why it never gets called a "Wolfhound IIC" until years later. In other news, a chain of events that began with me bitching in Discord about how some companies don't value editing has culminated in me joining the editing crew for Shrapnel.
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Feb 14, 2024 19:53
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Defiance Industries posted:It is, by a few years. It predates the entire "IIC" nomenclature, which is why it never gets called a "Wolfhound IIC" until years later. Congratulations/Sorry that happened to you.
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Feb 14, 2024 20:18
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Arquinsiel posted:Joanna isn't a dreg. She's actually the best Falcon that ever Falconed, to the point where she was so focused on hating her enemy and enjoying the fighting that she failed to win a bloodname, unlike that gloryhound Malvina Hazen. She's basically the Jade Falcon's answer to Trent, except she had some leverage over her equivalent of Paul Moon. *insert joke about how all Falcons are dregs* Though I’ll be nice and note the post-Malvina Falcons (at least the ones that got left behind) are starting to be more interesting to me now that they’re in deep enough trouble to be humbled a bit and have to be more creative than just “SCREECH crush our foes with our awesomeness!”. Which can be funny but does get kind of old. Crafty Falcons are far more interesting.
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Feb 14, 2024 20:23
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MadDogMike posted:*insert joke about how all Falcons are dregs* Yeah, seeing them actually suffer the consequences of their short-sighted decisions instead of the authors just ignoring them like they did with graduating cadets early or genociding all their scientists has been a big improvement. It's hard to build an engaging story when you know any adversity they face will just get ignored.
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Feb 14, 2024 20:24
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Defiance Industries posted:It is, by a few years. It predates the entire "IIC" nomenclature, which is why it never gets called a "Wolfhound IIC" until years later. I am so sorry/way to go!
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Feb 14, 2024 20:26
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Arquinsiel posted:Joanna isn't a dreg. She's explicitly a dreg who was assigned teaching duties because she got herself in trouble for committing too many Trial of Grievance murders. To reiterate: Joanna was made a teacher because the Clan was unhappy that she was hurting their military readiness by killing too many people in Trials of Grievance that she was often inventing or instigating out of sheer boredom rather than out of a legitimate (by Clan terms) grievance. She even commits such a killing as she's introduced. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Feb 14, 2024 |
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Feb 14, 2024 20:37
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drat, imagine wasting so many resources that it actually counts as "waste" by Clan standards
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Feb 14, 2024 20:48
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It's only a waste because they don't like her. Hypocrisy and double standards are the entire point of Clan culture.
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Feb 14, 2024 21:08
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And the best way to deal with someone like that? Have them teach your cadets, of course!
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Feb 14, 2024 21:25
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Defiance Industries posted:And the best way to deal with someone like that? Have them teach your cadets, of course! Well, in their eyes that is the punishment. Fix your attitude, or you will be teaching these children forever
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Feb 14, 2024 22:30
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Arquinsiel posted:It's only a waste because they don't like her. Hypocrisy and double standards are the entire point of Clan culture. When even the Jade Falcons sit up and go "holy poo poo, you idiot, stop killing your own allies" you hosed up big time. And Joanna's response to getting yelled at by Ter Roshak for murdering another trainer on day one was to trade her murder addiction in for a sex addiction; which she kept right up until she became complicit in the scheme to Re-Warrior Aidan where presumably the fear of getting caught was finally enough adrenaline for her. Book 1 Joanna is not Book 2 and beyond Joanna. They are completely different characters and Book 1 Joanna is a monster.
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Feb 14, 2024 22:57
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At no point does Joanna stop being a monster. She's just a different monster later on.
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Feb 14, 2024 23:15
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The only trueborns I found in that trilogy that weren't terrible monsters seemed to be the one or two elementals and peri. And even the elementals were just normal clan level monsters I guess Marthe doesn't get developed all that much
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Feb 14, 2024 23:30
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Continuing universe genre fiction like BT is truly unsuited to handle the horrors of Clan society. So we get warrior-focused dross. Show me a novel on the Civilian Re-Education Program on Sudeten in early 3051. And don't spare the imagery.
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Feb 14, 2024 23:48
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There was a pretty bad MWDA novel that had the revelation that the antagonist character was conceived from her mother being raped by a Clansman. I remember people making GBS threads their pants on the official forums with the "how dare you writer, Clans don't rape" and here we are forgetting Joanna and three quarters the goddamn first book of the JFT lol
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Feb 14, 2024 23:58
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I can almost guarantee you that those people on the official forums don't consider an adult woman sexually exploiting the teen boy under her control as "rape."
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Feb 15, 2024 00:02
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Hold and dom me, Clanner Mommy
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Feb 15, 2024 00:13
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Holybat posted:There was a pretty bad MWDA novel that had the revelation that the antagonist character was conceived from her mother being raped by a Clansman. I remember people making GBS threads their pants on the official forums with the "how dare you writer, Clans don't rape" and here we are forgetting Joanna and three quarters the goddamn first book of the JFT lol That book was pretty bad for lots of other reasons but that's a big one, yeah. GD_American posted:Continuing universe genre fiction like BT is truly unsuited to handle the horrors of Clan society. So we get warrior-focused dross. This is absolutely going to sound like me trying to salve over the horrific nature of the concept of Clan culture but apparently that's mostly not what happened? I'm sure it happened in like the Smoke Jag occupation zone or somewhere equally very horrid but Tamar Rising has a sidebar about how most Clan conquests they left the infrastructure and systems in place and left the people who'd been citizens of <state> their entire lives alone as long as they didn't directly gently caress with things and instead started with the next generation.
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Feb 15, 2024 00:53
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The same book also has Falcons deciding to reduce life expectancy on a world they took by decades because of all the "excess population" so they clearly wanted to have it both ways.
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Feb 15, 2024 01:49
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