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i don't think most modern distros would run on a pentium 3 or 4 (unless it's one of those weirdo 64-bit pentium 4s). but even so, don't most distros require UEFI now? like, clear is a pretty extreme example i guess because it's tuned for performance, but i'm certain it wouldn't work on either (even with UEFI) you'd probably need netbsd or some poo poo for something current. even debian doesn't offer 32-bit packages by default anymore, although you can enable them but still, unless they're not compiled for any modern SIMD instructions, it still probably wouldn't work
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Feb 15, 2024 19:02
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and on top of that i'm not sure what kind of graphics support you could expect with something older than i915 or with some ancient AGP card or something e: llvmpipe would probably work. see below re: alpine Beeftweeter fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Feb 15, 2024 |
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Feb 15, 2024 19:05
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I was looking into running Linux on my pentium 3 box a while’s back, there’s a 32 bit version of arch out there but I forget why I couldn’t get it working. I went with netbsd instead
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Feb 15, 2024 19:10
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Unless you're doing retro gaming, if it's that old I feel like you're probably better off just using a raspberry pi 4 or something in terms of power consumption?
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Feb 15, 2024 19:13
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well, there are definitely distros that would work on something that old — iSH on ios uses a 32-bit x86 interpreter along with an alpine bootstrap + packages, so i guess that's similar to what silver alicorn was trying to do? but a lot of it doesn't work (likely because of the interpreter) and it's a huge pain in the rear end to set up a working graphical environment. but this is reminding me that llvmpipe actually does work under that, so maybe it just needs SSE or SSE2 — i'm not sure what the interpreter supports — but it works, mostly anyway if you want to try alpine out, it's pretty easy to bootstrap: https://www.alpinelinux.org/downloads/ but past that, i'd say it's pretty much for advanced lunix users e: and although that's technically a "modern" linux, netbsd is probably incidentally easier to set up? idk e2: oh and alpine uses musl for libc and also busybox by default, so maybe it's not a great choice. again, idk, it's been a very long time since i've had to think about hardware that old, but that's at least a modern linux that kinda works Beeftweeter fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Feb 15, 2024 |
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Feb 15, 2024 19:16
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old pcs are lovely retro game consoles, there is no other practical use for any general-purpose computer weaker than a raspberry pi.
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Feb 15, 2024 19:51
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on a somewhat unrelated note i want one of those all-in-one raspberries pi, the one that's built into the keyboard. i have absolutely no use for one, but i want it. that being said, it is extremely hosed up that they removed the headphone jack and put in a second micro-hdmi connector instead, because they're not even pretending to be anything other than a call center workstation vendor any more i guess.
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Feb 15, 2024 19:53
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Sapozhnik posted:old pcs are lovely retro game consoles, there is no other practical use for any general-purpose computer weaker than a raspberry pi.
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Feb 15, 2024 19:53
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Sapozhnik posted:old pcs are lovely retro game consoles, there is no other practical use for any general-purpose computer weaker than a raspberry pi. hard disagree. sometimes it's about the complete experience. f-15 strike eagle ii is the tits on my tandy 1000 hx with cm-11 monitor and og tandy joystick
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Feb 15, 2024 19:54
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otoh we're post-moores-law (not quite the actual law, but the popular understanding of it) so a lot of newer stuff remains good for a very long time. just dont run like a p4, or even worse something before it, with some kind of nonsense *ecological* motivation.
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Feb 15, 2024 19:55
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also, i have a dmp-130a that i can't drive from linux, but print shop on the tandy drives that beast with no trouble
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Feb 15, 2024 19:55
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yes, that's what i said. they are useful for doing retro pc gaming without emulation, but they have no other uses.
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Feb 15, 2024 19:58
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I interpreted "lovely retro game consoles" as meaning "lovely at being retro game consoles" but I guess that's not what you meant?
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Feb 15, 2024 19:59
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there's a window for vintage machines during which they're not worth keeping around. right now anything before about 1995 is good to go, but anything in the 2000s needs to be pulled out and either melted down or kept in a closet until some weirdo on ebay is willing to pay a thousand bucks for a complete machine where each component is ten a piece
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Feb 15, 2024 20:00
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just put ReactOS on it
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Feb 15, 2024 20:01
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mystes posted:if that wasn't clear, I don't mean like emulating an snes, I mean running dos or classic mac os or something natively to play old games since I think some people are into that slight tangent, but you can now run some classic mac os (7+8) in the new qemu release (8.2 has quadra 800 support). I set up an A/UX vm because of course
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Feb 15, 2024 20:02
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my win2k box is cool.
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Feb 15, 2024 20:02
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mystes posted:Unless you're doing retro gaming, if it's that old I feel like you're probably better off just using a raspberry pi 4 or something in terms of power consumption? There are a lot of people into retro games and keeping hardware out of landfills keeps inflation under control. Kazinsal posted:there's a window for vintage machines during which they're not worth keeping around. right now anything before about 1995 is good to go, but anything in the 2000s needs to be pulled out and either melted down or kept in a closet until some weirdo on ebay is willing to pay a thousand bucks for a complete machine where each component is ten a piece This is already true for higher end early 2000s hardware, it's stuff like core 2s and Athlon 64s that are at the bottom of the depreciation curve. I also think the AGP/PCI/ISA systems have an inherent advantage in that since they can use OG sound blaster cards their game library is absolutely enormous, they can play most of the same games a 486 can as well as those of their own era, and even play some quite modern limit removing doom and quake mods under DOS Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Feb 15, 2024 |
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Feb 15, 2024 20:04
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there is nothing useful a retro computer can do that a much smaller all in one style board can't do better for way less power consumption. that being said a retro pc enthusiast will be happy to take them off your hands and keep them in their cluttered room/apartment/house/storage shack for you. Taking your computer to an e-cycler, unless they have a dedicated store front like Seattle RE-PC, usually means they'll end up in a landfill somewhere else. Remember, recycle is the last of the 3 Rs. Reuse is far more important than recycle.
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Feb 15, 2024 20:08
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imo when the computer is old enough to be "weird vintage poo poo" it's worth keeping around, but anything that you look at and go "yeah man that ripped on UT2K4" is ewaste
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Feb 15, 2024 20:11
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Also w/r/t power consumption the absolutely enormous energy usage of industry should be taken into account, often a more efficient modern machine still has more overall footprint because you have to make the thing and that's a gigantic impact
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Feb 15, 2024 20:14
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huh it seems like reactos has been merging a lot of wine code lately. i wonder if that makes it any better (the last time i used it, probably 2021, it was hella buggy but usable) i think ima throw the x86 version on a qemu vm using my android phone to see if it'd be any good on old hardware. i already have xrdp running under termux without issue so it shouldn't be too hard
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Feb 15, 2024 20:17
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Woolie Wool posted:Also w/r/t power consumption the absolutely enormous energy usage of industry should be taken into account, often a more efficient modern machine still has more overall footprint because you have to make the thing and that's a gigantic impact oh yeah, the other option for "athlon rig" guy us buying a new real computer to do the many tasks that one is currently actively fulfilling
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Feb 15, 2024 20:19
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Kazinsal posted:imo when the computer is old enough to be "weird vintage poo poo" it's worth keeping around, but anything that you look at and go "yeah man that ripped on UT2K4" is ewaste even that stuff is starting to hit vintage level. There are people out there looking to build XP machines and run those older games/hardware. Lot of games from that era have trouble running on modern PCs properly without weird directx wrappers or mods. Vista is also starting to become retro. the passage of time continues.
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Feb 15, 2024 20:21
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Woolie Wool posted:Also w/r/t power consumption the absolutely enormous energy usage of industry should be taken into account, often a more efficient modern machine still has more overall footprint because you have to make the thing and that's a gigantic impact I don't think anyone ITT is proposing buying new hardware for the purpose of emulating machines they already own
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Feb 15, 2024 20:22
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:oh yeah, the other option for "athlon rig" guy us buying a new real computer to do the many tasks that one is currently actively fulfilling My other computer is a Ryzen 7. In fact I had the Ryzen first.
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Feb 15, 2024 20:23
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Kazinsal posted:imo when the computer is old enough to be "weird vintage poo poo" it's worth keeping around, but anything that you look at and go "yeah man that ripped on UT2K4" is ewaste yeah, the only real use for vintage x86 stuff is for a real dos gaming machine. basically everything pentum 4 and later is just old junk that's a slower version of what we have now i got rid of a lot of stuff last year, mostly things from the mid-00s that's not old enough to be interesting retro poo poo and isn't of any real use now. also piles and piles of cables. i don't think i'm going to need a dozen old serial and vga cables anytime soon HKR posted:Vista is also starting to become retro the kids are not ok
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Feb 15, 2024 20:27
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Patched Vista is almost identical to 7, it was not a bad os after a couple of service packs
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Feb 15, 2024 20:29
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if I don’t have to order some 4.7uF tantalums and some fresh solder to get it working it’s not retro
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Feb 15, 2024 20:32
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Kazinsal posted:if I don’t have to order some 4.7uF tantalums and some fresh solder to get it working it’s not retro instead of tantalums its every electrolytic cap on a board manufactured between 1999 and 2010.
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Feb 15, 2024 20:35
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if you don't recap your 2002 asus motherboard with capacitors expensively designed to leak within 6 months are you even doing real retro computing?
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Feb 15, 2024 20:39
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Why would I do that when my kt133 board works
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Feb 15, 2024 20:53
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meh i just went with xvnc instead of doing the xrdp sesman rigamarole but 
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Feb 15, 2024 21:28
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Trash Trash (Empty)
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Feb 15, 2024 21:36
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well, i stupidly forgot to configure a network interface so there's not much i can do with it right now, but it at least installs, boots and runs on a(n emulated) pentium 3 i'd even call it snappy (and remember that this is running on a non-rooted midrange android phone from 2018, a huawei mate 10 pro). pretty neat  mycophobia posted:Trash Trash (Empty) yeah i tried using a bunch of different desktop environments, which leads to stupid poo poo like that (and i'm lazy so i didn't clean it up). xfce seems to work best as far as performance/functionality is concerned. termux exposes the device's gpu/other devices for things that can use it, so e.g. qemu there is using virgl and pulseaudio
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Feb 15, 2024 21:47
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Beeftweeter posted:well, i stupidly forgot to configure a network interface so there's not much i can do with it right now, but it at least installs, boots and runs on a(n emulated) pentium 3 But does it play video games
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Feb 15, 2024 23:15
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Woolie Wool posted:But does it play video games well it can, it uses the same implementation of directx that wine does but right now i'm having a hell of a time getting it to connect to the internet, although i suspect that's because my phone isn't rooted. but still, i'm pretty sure QEMU supports userland networking, and i do have it able to see a local connection, it just can't reach anything outside of it qemu's networking options have changed considerably since the last time i had to do something like this though, so i'm not sure where i'm going wrong. my command line looks like this right now code:code:so any help there would be appreciated, and then i can try to run some games because the virtio acceleration seems to work fine (the typical GL-based text screensaver that like, NT4/2K had works fine)
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Feb 15, 2024 23:26
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Does your VM have e1000 drivers?
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Feb 15, 2024 23:37
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ps if anyone with an android phone wants to try it out themselves, termux makes it pretty easy (it's not quite debian-based, but it uses apt) only thing is, don't install termux from the play store, it's deprecated. grab builds from github releases (https://github.com/termux/termux-app) or f-droid (not recommended, apparently these are not up to date because f-droid has a really stupid policy wrt updates) then just `apt install qemu-system-i386 virglrenderer-android pulseaudio x11vnc xrdp` … etc etc
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Feb 15, 2024 23:39
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FlapYoJacks posted:Does your VM have e1000 drivers? yeah, reactos ships with them e: i tried rtl8139, pcnet and ne2k_pci too (and all also have drivers), but same problem. i think it's my QEMU config, not reactos Beeftweeter fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Feb 15, 2024 |
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