|
Wii Spawn Camper posted:How did Blackbeard know Saturn would be there? Oda made a big deal of how secretive Saturn was being, but his crew knew exactly where to be. It’s weird!  Same reason the giants are there: 
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 04:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 16:26 |
|
|
luchadornado posted:Saturn is one of the most powerful people in the world, Devon can just copy his looks and call it a day without Imu and the others sensing that it's not the same haki man? I don't buy it. My guess is that they want to use Saturn's look to get access to something only the Gorosei would have access too, and in that case they don't need to fool the other Gorosei, just the servants/underlings in Mariejois. Either that or they can literally show up anywhere in the world and say,"It's me, Saturn, the Gorosei, do exactly what I say!" and everybody will immediately fall into line.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 04:56
|
|
|
Vermain posted:the real burning question on my mind now is how much blackbeard knows about the WG, five elders, and history of the world at large, because devon's reaction to seeing the true form of one of the leaders of the world is not what you'd expect if they were going in blind. i'm assuming kuzan must've spilled the beans at some point, which makes me think that blackbeard's not merely angling at generic pirate conquest but at striking at the empty throne and whatever's underneath mary geoise that doflamingo hinted at ages ago Why would Kuzan know. I get the impression only the Elders know.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 05:06
|
|
|
Say what you will about Saturn... But he ain't a wimp. He took that storm of Gear 5 Luffy punches and got smashed through half the island and he basically got up and went "Irritating." One thing that always made the Celestial Dragons so infuriating was how they were so vile with so little backing it up. At least when Saturn's monstrous actions bring karma directly to his face, he shows that he at least somewhat abides by his general 'I'm stronger/better than you, so that means I can do whatever I want.' thing, unlike the Dragons, who would be reduced to paste if most of the figures in One Piece world took a swing at them. Yes, even Charlos. Luffy's not a killer by nature, even as mad as he was. I wager he subconsciously pulled the punch in some way. If it had been, say, Kid punching Charlos in the same gently caress it all red fugue rage, Charlos would have been dead and probably require a closed casket funeral.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 05:14
|
|
|
luchadornado posted:Saturn is one of the most powerful people in the world, Devon can just copy his looks and call it a day without Imu and the others sensing that it's not the same haki man? I don't buy it. It's worth noting that we've seen several shots of Saturn about to take big hits from some of the most powerful people in the world and choosing to just not use armament haki for these blows. Additionally, he doesn't seem to try to dodge anything, either. If I had to guess, I think a thing with the Elder Stars is probably going to be that they can't use haki at all. After all, why would anyone with real willpower need slaves?
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 05:57
|
|
|
For all that he's getting punched through city blocks, Saturn has yet to visible exert himself beyond the odd pique driven leg stab. It's all been effortless paralysis effects and TK strikes or regen, whatever. Dude won't or can't abandon dignity for even a moment to put his guard up.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 06:01
|
|
|
PringleCreamEgg posted:Not sure how strong Saturn actually is when it comes to the way we normally think of it in the series. It seems more like he uses some weird new kind of power and can regenerate. idk, his ability to cause physical harm to people by glaring at them makes him seem strong, like there’s definitely weird powers on top of that but they probably wouldn’t work so good without a big power level behind them. Wrt Caterina, I doubt any disguise could fool the other Stars/Imu unless “perfect replication” is a built in part of her fruit, but there’s a LOT of places unrelated to Marejois that you could infiltrate as an Elder Star illusion. Plus, you can technically just get in the front gate by pretending you subdued the Blackbeard Pirates as Saturn too.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 06:10
|
|
|
Caidin posted:For all that he's getting punched through city blocks, Saturn has yet to visible exert himself beyond the odd pique driven leg stab. It's all been effortless paralysis effects and TK strikes or regen, whatever. Dude won't or can't abandon dignity for even a moment to put his guard up. Even after the Gear 5 attack he doesn't have a scratch on him and defaults back into his hands-resting-on-his-cane pose as soon as he gets up. He does seem to be getting increasingly annoyed though which is probably bad for everyone.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 06:11
|
|
|
Just to make sure I read the sequence right, Saturn does use his paralysis glare in full effect on Luffy when Luffy is winding up, right? Luffy just eats it, grunts a little and delivers the Gatling regardless.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 06:16
|
|
|
Spinoff manga chronicling Devon's deep-cover mission as Saturn.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 06:24
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:Just to make sure I read the sequence right, Saturn does use his paralysis glare in full effect on Luffy when Luffy is winding up, right? Luffy just eats it, grunts a little and delivers the Gatling regardless. I believe that was his bullet glare, not his mystery paralysis field.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 06:25
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:Just to make sure I read the sequence right, Saturn does use his paralysis glare in full effect on Luffy when Luffy is winding up, right? Luffy just eats it, grunts a little and delivers the Gatling regardless. It seems to be the Make Head Explode Glare instead as Luffy's head is thrown back and blood comes out
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 06:25
|
|
|
Catalina's appearance seems to be the nail in the coffin for Saturn, narrative-wise. Wouldn't do much good for her to be able to impersonate him if the Gorosei can just say "the real Saturn is in Mary Geoise, anyone else is an impostor", so he's probably gonna die or otherwise be removed from the picture after this arc, and force Gorosei into a catch-22 situation - either let people know that one of the Gorosei has died and cause a worldwide upset, or let Catalina roam free to impersonate Saturn.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 06:36
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:Why would Kuzan know. I get the impression only the Elders know. kizaru acts completely nonplussed about saturn's spider transformation and if doflamingo, who left at a young age, knows about whatever's under mary geoise, then it's likely an open secret amongst the world nobles and would presumably be something the admirals know about at bare minimum i doubt kuzan or blackbeard know about imu at all, but i do think it's highly probable that kuzan told them about whatever great power is hiding beneath the red line, and blackbeard's slow accumulation of power and now apparent infiltration ploy is aiming to grab it
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 06:41
|
|
|
Being able to copy Saturn's appearance might just be so the Blackbeard Pirates can control the seraphim
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 13:29
|
|
|
shes only going to be able to turn into crab Saturn since he was like that when she touched him
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 14:59
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 15:19
|
|
|
The face tells so many stories  'Did I get my poo poo deflected by the bronze medal here, the gently caress happened at Wano man' 
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 15:31
|
|
|
Just already one of the all time Faces
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 15:35
|
|
|
Bleck posted:It's worth noting that we've seen several shots of Saturn about to take big hits from some of the most powerful people in the world and choosing to just not use armament haki for these blows. Additionally, he doesn't seem to try to dodge anything, either. But Doffy and Kaidou were slavers?
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 15:48
|
|
|
Doffy and Kaido also had their own ambitions. Saturn is at the top of the world. What ambition does he need?
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 15:50
|
|
|
mabels big day posted:Being able to copy Saturn's appearance might just be so the Blackbeard Pirates can control the seraphim I am certain this is what is going to play out. Blackbeard figured out the command system and wants the seraphim and possibly the pacifistas. I would even wager Saturn may have not been the original target but Vegapunk but they got lucky and Saturn happened to show up and be vulnerable enough to get tagged instead.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 16:13
|
|
|
Bleck posted:After all, why would anyone with real willpower need slaves?
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 16:36
|
|
|
Never heard of him, sure you don't mean Genghis Baan?
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 17:27
|
|
|
Waffleman_ posted:Just already one of the all time Faces Sanji coming out of nowhere to challenge the unchallegable admiral by kicking light Meanwhile Zoro's stuck in a boring jobber match against Lucci that is so uninteresting it seemingly only exists to give Zoro something to do other than get lost In other words
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 17:31
|
|
|
Infinitum posted:Sanji coming out of nowhere to challenge the unchallegable admiral by kicking light I'm kind of confused with the whole left behind/dead weight thing Lucci is suggesting here. Zoro was up there on the roof in Wano like I feel you can do that character arc with any of the other strawhats, but not Zoro.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 17:40
|
|
|
Electric Phantasm posted:I'm kind of confused with the whole left behind/dead weight thing Lucci is suggesting here. Zoro was up there on the roof in Wano like I feel you can do that character arc with any of the other strawhats, but not Zoro. The plot went somewhere else, but I feel like Zoro Vs All the Seraphim would have been a more interesting fight for him; and leave Lucci for someone like Robin/Jinbe/Franky
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 17:45
|
|
|
Bleck posted:
This is a line of thinking that probably works throughout the rank and file of the marines and wg, I wouldn’t be surprised if the type of person the WG wants to attract is compliant and follows orders and doesn’t question much. That’s probably why the WG had to do a draft to get more admiral level talent, haki is just not something the WG would intentionally cultivate in their underlings But the people at the top almost certainly do have Haki! Your part about slaves doesn’t even make sense, I’d feel comfortable saying every powerful and ambitious man in the ancient world probably had a shitload of slaves. Forcing people to work might take more willpower than doing it yourself. Cracking a whip, hurting and enslaving others aren’t simple and easy things to do for most people
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 17:49
|
|
|
Electric Phantasm posted:I'm kind of confused with the whole left behind/dead weight thing Lucci is suggesting here. Zoro was up there on the roof in Wano like I feel you can do that character arc with any of the other strawhats, but not Zoro. Zolo was so interesting in Wano that his sword plot and the bit where he met Death itself just got chucked in a bin, wrap it up Mossheadailures
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 18:02
|
|
|
Meme Emulator posted:Your part about slaves doesn’t even make sense, I’d feel comfortable saying every powerful and ambitious man in the ancient world probably had a shitload of slaves. Forcing people to work might take more willpower than doing it yourself. Cracking a whip, hurting and enslaving others aren’t simple and easy things to do for most people 
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 18:21
|
|
|
Meme Emulator posted:This is a line of thinking that probably works throughout the rank and file of the marines and wg, I wouldn’t be surprised if the type of person the WG wants to attract is compliant and follows orders and doesn’t question much. That’s probably why the WG had to do a draft to get more admiral level talent, haki is just not something the WG would intentionally cultivate in their underlings 
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 18:31
|
|
|
Meme Emulator posted:But the people at the top almost certainly do have Haki! Your part about slaves doesn’t even make sense, I’d feel comfortable saying every powerful and ambitious man in the ancient world probably had a shitload of slaves. Forcing people to work might take more willpower than doing it yourself. Cracking a whip, hurting and enslaving others aren’t simple and easy things to do for most people If there's a difference between the other slavers (Kaido, Doflamingo) and the Gorosei it's that the former had the ambition to change the world in some way, and the Gorosei already have the world. They're in a position where all they want to do is crush other people's ambitions to preserve the status quo. So yes, you can have an ambitious slaver I would agree, but, uh, not because of the determination it takes to have slaves. I wouldn't say that's particularly special, and I would in fact say the person determined to do everything on their own has more willpower than the person who's willing to force other people to work on their behalf. Forcing people to do what you want might be a more effective way of shaping the world with your will in some circumstances, but it itself is not a sign of willpower.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 19:07
|
|
|
I don't think willpower has a moral aspect to it. Lots of people who are evil have a lot of willpower. Being a slave vs slaver doesn't have anything to do with it. There are, like, material conditions involved. If all the bad people were weak, it would not be impressive that the good people won in the end. What a boring story that would be!
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 19:11
|
|
|
Eiba posted:I'm just going to come out and say that no- doing all the work yourself requires more willpower than... the emotional labor of being a slaver. Yea I kind of worded what I was thinking badly. It’s not like the slaver is gritting his teeth and whipping the slave theough tears and a desire not to hurt anyone. The slaver will just get a person that likes to whip people to crack the whip. My problem was more with the “evil is lazy” message my quoted post had. I know we are mostly Americans here and hard work = good is a cornerstone of our culture but I guess the point I was trying to make was that people can still work really hard at being bad. Like begemot said above, will doesnt teally have a moral element.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 19:34
|
|
|
issuing correction on a previous post of mine, regarding the WG overseers the Gorosei. you do not, under any circumstances, "gotta hand it to them"
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 19:48
|
|
|
Meme Emulator posted:Yea I kind of worded what I was thinking badly. It’s not like the slaver is gritting his teeth and whipping the slave theough tears and a desire not to hurt anyone. The slaver will just get a person that likes to whip people to crack the whip. Tangential to this discussion but still related to One Piece: The whole lazy/hard-working evil/good comparison is interesting because in most American comics the good guys are working hard to preserve the status quo. The dangerous villains are the ones trying to do things. But they're still presented as taking the easy path because they work with fewer constraints (not caring about other peoples lives, property, etc.) In One Piece a lot of the individual villains have been trying to change things for the worse, and Luffy has just stopped them, but the overall structure of the world and story is that the status quo is hosed and needs to be changed. Luffy is not a hero preserving order. The world's order is the biggest villain. And yet there are still elements of hard work = good. Luffy's struggles are noble, and Saturn stands there with his hands folded most of the time. Inertia is on the side of the established villains who support a tiny minority living a life of ease in a world full of people trapped in an oppressive web of supporting structures. Luffy always has to work harder than his opponent, and that's just cool. So while most hero stories are about how actually it's more difficult and noble to preserve the good status quo, with the villains who change things not giving a poo poo, One Piece is about how it's more difficult and noble to tear down evil establishments. And like, establishments have all the power, of course it's harder to tear them down! I like the message of One Piece a lot better, and it's a lot more satisfying. It's interesting to see the completely different takes on if the status quo is delicate and precious, or robust and oppressive, all in the same kind of genre.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 20:04
|
|
|
This is the appropriate reaction to someone kicking a laser.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 20:21
|
|
|
Blackbeard is probably the clearest example of a character determined to make his dreams come true in spite of being evil
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 20:30
|
|
|
Irony Be My Shield posted:Blackbeard is probably the clearest example of a character determined to make his dreams come true in spite of being evil He said it himself when he first appeared, “A man’s dream will never die”
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 20:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 16:26 |
|
|
I have no clue why posters are harping on the Zoro vs Lucci fight so much; getting Zoro to go toe-to-toe with the villain who gave Luffy the biggest hurdle to overcome pre-timeskip was an excellent writing decision by Oda. Having your number 2 take out a former Big Bad who was anything but a slouch is a major accomplishment and an excellent progress milestone for Zoro to checkpoint. Haters gonna hate I guess?  Maybe cause the fight is happening offscreen? I dunno man, that can easily be embellished upon in the show, you know how they love padding their episode content.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 20:37
|
|