|
jadebullet posted:I think Imp City is in envy. There is a sign that says it is in the 2nd ring, and when looking at the boarding sign in the elevator station during the Ozzies episode, it lists Envy as the second ring down. IMP City is in Pride. Outside of the color scheme and everything, we know that the IMP offices are in IMP city, and Sinners are able to go there, which they would not be able to do if they were in Envy. IMP City, the IMP office, Millie and Moxxie's apartment, Blitzo's and Loona's apartment and Stolas' castle are all in Pride, they just don't seem to be in the main area of Pride where Hazbin Hotel takes place.
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2024 17:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 10:35 |
|
|
How does the "rings" layout square with the "pentagram" map?
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2024 17:56
|
|
|
(Just rewatched the HH pilot now that I've seen the whole thing, and HB 1 and 2, and I guess what strikes me most is how fully fleshed out everything was from the beginning, alluding to things that will only be revealed much later; and it has the effect of the early episodes on the first watchthrough really just being a complete information overload as dense as all the jokes are that you're already struggling mightily to keep up with. But on a rewatch it all clicks into place incredibly well)
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2024 18:00
|
|
|
The two Hazbin comics they released in between also feature a bunch of characters that would get formally introduced in the series proper so I think they at least had a rough idea of where they wanted things to go back when they made the pilot if nothing else
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2024 18:07
|
|
|
Larryb posted:The episode still doesn’t have a proper release date yet does it (I’ve heard anywhere from next month to Summer 2024)? i am guessing april because thats what it sounded like when they first announced. Macaluso posted:Fanartist have already paired up Stolas with a temporary boyfriend, by using the parrot looking Overlord from the Hazbin Hotel pilot during the Alastor backstory and repurposing him into a Goetia demon that's like super nice and attentive but ultimately boring as a partner compared to Blitzo i think thats probably what will happen.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2024 18:30
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:How does the "rings" layout square with the "pentagram" map? I questioned that awhile back as well, no one had an official answer, an online search didn't reveal anything conclusive as well. At this point my belief it works like this:  Rings within rings. It makes the most sense.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2024 19:05
|
|
|
I mean if the show actually tries to do any kind of real physical modeling based on Dante it's going to get wild, especially if it pays any attention to all the crammed-in detail within the ninth ring where he realized he had way too many grudges against contemporaries to write about and was already out of rings so he made hundreds of little sub-rings for all their petty transgressions. There's even kinda-sorta a cannibalism motif to be had there but I doubt this answers any questions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugolino_della_Gherardesca
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2024 19:09
|
|
|
Pride is the top ring itself while the other rings are below it definitely inspired by Dante's inferno. Two are commonly said to be gone. Destroyed? Absorbed? Who knows. With the cannibals I first thought they were a nod to Night of the Living Dead. They are often only in black and white so that in itself can be a reference. The smiling can be explained by actual cases where cannibals that consumed brains some times digested infected ones. This caused grinning, shaking etc kinda like we see in one scene where Charlie is worried about them looking murdery. It was a cannibal child that Vaggie spared causing Lute to attack her.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2024 19:25
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:How does the "rings" layout square with the "pentagram" map? Rings and Circles are not the same thing. Hell has 7 rings, each themed after a sin. Pride has circles, each most likely being a particular city given that Imp City is in the second circle of Pride. The Pentagram is Pentagram city and most likely the 1st circle of Pride. The Goetia probably live in a separate city from Pentagram and Imp city as well, but we don't know How that layout works, I imagine, is a lot of hellscape with 9 cities strewn about them. That's a guess. How the Rings of Hell work is that they're stacked atop one another. We know this because Moxie, Millie, and Blitz take an elevator down to Lust in "Welcome to Ozzie's".
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2024 19:58
|
|
|
Adder Moray posted:Rings and Circles are not the same thing. Hell has 7 rings, each themed after a sin. Pride has circles, each most likely being a particular city given that Imp City is in the second circle of Pride. The Pentagram is Pentagram city and most likely the 1st circle of Pride. The Goetia probably live in a separate city from Pentagram and Imp city as well, but we don't know And from what we can tell each Ring is roughly the size of a continent while envy is an entire ocean.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2024 21:11
|
|
|
Anyway it's pretty funny how Moxxie does a little Godfather riff on "mob familly 🤌" in episode 1 knowing what we learn about him later.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2024 22:25
|
|
|
Now having seen all of both shows (thus far) I'm reasonably confident in my read that Hazbin is more about "big world-scale conflicts" and "cool conceptual worldbuilding" rather than "personal-scale character development". Both shows have elements of both obviously, but Helluva Boss seems to really be taking the time to dig deep into its characters the way Hazbin isn't; setting each one up as a person who we all can understand on a human level, and setting them against "villains" who are evil only in the way that real people are evil. Which in its own way makes for a way weightier, more powerful artistic statement on the human condition. Sure it's a big deal to talk about armageddon or about an impending genocide with existential implications for the entire universe. But there is no scarier villain than "your landlord" or "your ex who knows your secrets". Or "your own insecurities" I like Hazbin plenty, don't get me wrong. But Helluva Boss is churning in my head and it won't stop e: the "You Will Be Okay" song in particular. I don't know why some songs just have this weird ability to turn me into a loving idiot. But holy drat. "lullaby about the end of the world", what an elevator pitch. And that chord progression, jesus. As apocalyptic as you can get in a major key. Why do I wish I could have been involved in this, I want to have drawn that frame of Stolas in profile against the bright dying sun. IF THE SEVEN RINGS COLLAPSE  E: lol that the online lyrics sources all say “constellation’s gone so soon” when he is clearly saying “consummation’s gone so soon” god I'm glad tomorrow is a holiday Data Graham fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Feb 19, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2024 22:39
|
|
|
Stolas is certainly a character that came far. From the pilot he came off as this perverted higher tier demon. Did I mention perverted? With teeth. When the show launches proper we see him develop into something much more. His daughter episode really made him. And did anyone else notice that Sera in Hazbin in her pure angel form really looks Goetian? Em was quite different in her own pure angel form.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 00:46
|
|
|
The Last Call posted:Stolas is certainly a character that came far. Don't know if the shows are going in this direction or not, but I'm fairly sure the Goetia are all fallen angels just leaning harder into their animalistic aesthetics as demons while seraphim seem to try and appear more humanoid. What I really want to know so bad is are the seven sins fallen angels in their own right who rebelled with Lucifer or did they come into existence as soon as hell did?
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 01:39
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:"power bottom at rock bottom" top tier loving lyrics lmao "But you've got company!" 
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 01:59
|
|
|
Flopsy posted:Don't know if the shows are going in this direction or not, but I'm fairly sure the Goetia are all fallen angels just leaning harder into their animalistic aesthetics as demons while seraphim seem to try and appear more humanoid. What I really want to know so bad is are the seven sins fallen angels in their own right who rebelled with Lucifer or did they come into existence as soon as hell did? Aside from Lucifer are there any fallen angels? Some will say Vaggie but she doesn't really qualify as that. She was able to return to Heaven, Lucifer sure can't. Lilith has been there for some time, but she was never an angel. She was human, now she's a demon? Something in between? Kinda hard to say with how this show goes about things. Fallen angels were largely the concept of allying with Lucifer to attempt to over throw Heaven after having a rage boner about God loving humans more. That's not the shows take as we saw. It might be Lucifer is the sole exception and he only fell because he accidentally screwed up instead of something more malicious. Even when the angels disagreed with him it took evil being able to infect the angels plans for them to decide he had to be punished.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 02:40
|
|
|
Lucifer is as powerful as he is because he is one of the elders of Heaven. Likely, Lucifer can't start a real war with heaven because there are other elders of heaven who are just as powerful, if not more so, than him. But, he always had the power to gently caress things up but no drive to even try due to his depression.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 02:45
|
|
|
The Last Call posted:Aside from Lucifer are there any fallen angels? Some will say Vaggie but she doesn't really qualify as that. She was able to return to Heaven, Lucifer sure can't. Lilith has been there for some time, but she was never an angel. She was human, now she's a demon? Something in between? Kinda hard to say with how this show goes about things. Zestial and the Goetia might be followers of Lucifer, even if he never had a war with heaven his ideals might have spread to other lesser angels regardless. Covok posted:Lucifer is as powerful as he is because he is one of the elders of Heaven. Likely, Lucifer can't start a real war with heaven because there are other elders of heaven who are just as powerful, if not more so, than him. But, he always had the power to gently caress things up but no drive to even try due to his depression. Given his wing set up he's probably the same tier as Sera and Emily (i.e. Seraphim). Notably I'm pretty sure Sera gets shown as one of those elders of heaven in the backstory, since you can see her crown on the most humanoid angel and she's notably bigger than every other angel we've seen which also shows up with one of the Elders.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 02:50
|
|
|
You know what I kinda enjoyed? In a lot of shows, the villain's competent henchman is usually exasperated with them. But Lute? Lute genuinely enjoys her ridiculous poo poo of a boss. There isn't even any "I'm tired of this poo poo" moments before the show goes "aww look, she cares." Even when he's doing a big dumb air guitar solo in Hell Is Forever, she's swooping around, emphasizing him, relishing in his obnoxious celebration.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 03:13
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:Now having seen all of both shows (thus far) I'm reasonably confident in my read that Hazbin is more about "big world-scale conflicts" and "cool conceptual worldbuilding" rather than "personal-scale character development". Both shows have elements of both obviously, but Helluva Boss seems to really be taking the time to dig deep into its characters the way Hazbin isn't; setting each one up as a person who we all can understand on a human level, and setting them against "villains" who are evil only in the way that real people are evil. Which in its own way makes for a way weightier, more powerful artistic statement on the human condition. Sure it's a big deal to talk about armageddon or about an impending genocide with existential implications for the entire universe. But there is no scarier villain than "your landlord" or "your ex who knows your secrets". Or "your own insecurities" yeah. that songs kinda hits deep. like its weirdly got me through a bunch of personal poo poo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V07GxfYDaU full song is good too
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 03:34
|
|
|
The Bee posted:You know what I kinda enjoyed? In a lot of shows, the villain's competent henchman is usually exasperated with them. But Lute? Lute genuinely enjoys her ridiculous poo poo of a boss. There isn't even any "I'm tired of this poo poo" moments before the show goes "aww look, she cares." Even when he's doing a big dumb air guitar solo in Hell Is Forever, she's swooping around, emphasizing him, relishing in his obnoxious celebration. yeah. i do think she believes in the cause more then her liking of him, i also think there is some jelousy their with her and vaggie, maybe Adam was grooming her to be the next command angel.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 03:37
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:How does the "rings" layout square with the "pentagram" map? There's a poster on the wall that shows it, I think. They're stacked vertically.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 07:02
|
|
|
I was going to ask this thread about how to watch Hazbin Hotel because my brother-in-law is a huge Vivviepop animation fan and comic artist. I watched the Pilot on YouTube and it was fun. I wanted to show it to my wife who is also likes animated musicals, but I just watched the rape episode and it was really gross. Does it get less horrible? Hazo fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Feb 19, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 08:33
|
|
|
Amazon Prime and yes, that’s the worst of it
Larryb fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Feb 19, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 12:57
|
|
|
The Bee posted:You know what I kinda enjoyed? In a lot of shows, the villain's competent henchman is usually exasperated with them. But Lute? Lute genuinely enjoys her ridiculous poo poo of a boss. There isn't even any "I'm tired of this poo poo" moments before the show goes "aww look, she cares." Even when he's doing a big dumb air guitar solo in Hell Is Forever, she's swooping around, emphasizing him, relishing in his obnoxious celebration. she's even more zealous to the point where it makes him uncomfortable even lol
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 13:12
|
|
|
I still get the impression that Sinners are pretty malleable form-wise, even not counting things like Alastor's transformation, and the cannibals all take on a relatively uniform look because they've lived together with shared interests long enough, to the point where they physically changed. Note how Alastor clearly isn't one of them but shares some fashion sense and visual motifs. (and red)Catgirl Al Capone posted:she's even more zealous to the point where it makes him uncomfortable even lol Yeah, it's more the thing where the big villain is in it for their own reasons while their lieutenant is a true believer in the cause, and sometimes is loyal to the boss as long as the boss is useful for advancing it regardless of their reasons. It pops up a lot more often than you'd think. Of course, also means that if the big boss is deposed or defeated and they have to take over, they're less charismatic but a lot more serious...
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 13:26
|
|
|
Larryb posted:Amazon Prime and yes, that’s the worst of it We have Prime; I meant “how” as in I don’t know the history of Vivviepop’s universe and from what I can tell by glancing at her wiki it looks complicated so I want to be sure I’m not missing any context to what is already a bizarrely layered story. Am I fine just watching the pilot and the Amazon series?
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 18:05
|
|
|
Hazo posted:We have Prime; I meant “how” as in I don’t know the history of Vivviepop’s universe and from what I can tell by glancing at her wiki it looks complicated so I want to be sure I’m not missing any context to what is already a bizarrely layered story. Am I fine just watching the pilot and the Amazon series? Yes, it’s not nearly as complicated as it would seem (do watch the pilot though as it’s the canon start to the series despite being made 5 years prior). Also maybe check out Helluva Boss on YouTube if you want more of her stuff Larryb fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Feb 19, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 18:07
|
|
|
There is a pilot for Hazbin Hotel and another pilot for Helluva Boss that are both on YouTube and date back to about 4 years ago. You may like to scroll down and watch those first, but it’s not required.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 18:12
|
|
|
They also made a couple prequel comics for Hazbin in between the pilot and the series proper https://hazbinhotelcanon.tumblr.com/post/623106313529049088/hazbin-hotel-angel-dust-prequel-comic-chapter/amp https://hazbinhotelcanon.tumblr.com/post/633281000119599104/hazbin-hotel-alastor-prequel-comic-the-radio/amp
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 18:14
|
|
|
Hazo posted:We have Prime; I meant “how” as in I don’t know the history of Vivviepop’s universe and from what I can tell by glancing at her wiki it looks complicated so I want to be sure I’m not missing any context to what is already a bizarrely layered story. Am I fine just watching the pilot and the Amazon series? Basically watch the pilot of hazbin and then the show. Skip helluva boss pilot and just watch that straight through. It’s the same universe but no crossover really. The wiki is over complicated by people throwing fan theory in there and Alastor being a character she made for some universe she made as a college student mixed with other stuff. It’s not kingdom hearts or the extended storyline of assassin creed.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 19:13
|
|
|
The Bee posted:You know what I kinda enjoyed? In a lot of shows, the villain's competent henchman is usually exasperated with them. But Lute? Lute genuinely enjoys her ridiculous poo poo of a boss. There isn't even any "I'm tired of this poo poo" moments before the show goes "aww look, she cares." Even when he's doing a big dumb air guitar solo in Hell Is Forever, she's swooping around, emphasizing him, relishing in his obnoxious celebration. My perception of Lute is she cares about Adam, a lot. She genuine cared about him, likely idolized him due to him being the first man and an influential figure of Heaven. She managed to move up in the ranks and due to her believing in him, stayed around him. They are always together. This caused them to rub off on each other, became more in sync and unfortunately enable the worse tendencies of each other making them worse in several ways. I don’t believe it’s a sexual thing either. Despite Adam being Adam, something tells me he wouldn’t screw it up with Lute while literally screwing other women. If anyone knew everything about him, it was Lute. One more reason they were able to say anything to each other, in the end they both knew they were friends, not that they'd ever really say it. Otherwise does anyone think Adam would put up with Lute hushing him up in Heaven about the exterminations. Devils in the details. Hazo posted:I was going to ask this thread about how to watch Hazbin Hotel because my brother-in-law is a huge Vivviepop animation fan and comic artist. I watched the Pilot on YouTube and it was fun. Yes? No? Odds are good we'll see similar episodes yet. It's not over. Angel is under contract, forever. That means he literally has to do whatever he is told to do by Val at work, the contract needs to be broken. Either by Val freeing him or Val dying. Hazbin Hotel is considered the serious show out of the two, Moxxie and Blitzo were originally suppose to be part of it's cast until it was determined they were a bit more sillier than what the show was intended to be about. It's how we got Helluva Boss! Whatever the original plans were it's easy to see both shows can be quite serious and dark, and be silly the next. Depends on the episode and the nature of what is happening. A happy place in hell is a lot of work. Hazo posted:We have Prime; I meant “how” as in I don’t know the history of Vivviepop’s universe and from what I can tell by glancing at her wiki it looks complicated so I want to be sure I’m not missing any context to what is already a bizarrely layered story. Am I fine just watching the pilot and the Amazon series? The concept for Hazbin Hotel began around 2014? It's changed in different ways and the fan base has grown massive. A passionate fan base is an understatement at this point. There is a lot of stuff out there that you can read up on and learn about. There's details in the show you will miss but not all of them are needed to know, though it can prevent some "who" moments. Think about it this way, if you want to read about the lore, details on why things are the way they are, there is much you can invest yourself into. At the same time you can watch the shows and overall get the general gist of it without having to study up. One thing I will warn you about is some details are in flux and not everything said is always true. Again, passionate fanbase and some don't take it kindly when someone else says something they don't believe to be the case or goes against their own perceived reality of what will be. There's a whole fannon wiki for example with peoples OCs etc. Occassionally someone mistakes that for the real or someone even tries to slide it into the official stuff in some nutty bid to make it cannon. TLDR: It'll be the best of times. It'll be the worse of times.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 19:15
|
|
|
Thanks goons, I knew I was asking the right people on this dead gay forum. Another question: is it better to watch the first Amazon episode of Hazbin and then go back and watch the pilot on YouTube? Because that’s what I did (because I clicked on the series without knowing there was a whole pilot and lore behind it), and I thought that was better because the pilot sort of misleads you to believe some characters are going to be more important than they end up being. Namely the newscasters and snake dude (yes I know Sir Pentious ends up being part of the ensemble but they still make a joke about how forgettable he is when he reappears on the main series) Another side note: It’s astonishing how well the Amazon cast matches the voices of the pilot cast from years ago. I guess Angel Dust and the bartender are the most noticeably different, but Stephanie Beatriz loving crushes it. The Last Call posted:There’s a whole fannon wiki for example with peoples OCs etc. Occassionally someone mistakes that for the real or someone even tries to slide it into the official stuff in some nutty bid to make it cannon. So Tina Belcher and the Equestranauts, got it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 19:37
|
|
|
I don't know about "better", but it doesn't hurt anything to do it that way. The pilot isn't redundant with the show, it's contiguous with it, it just serves as an excisable part of the story that you can sort of take as read if you missed it entirely. The pilot's plenty good on its own though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 19:46
|
|
|
The Last Call posted:My perception of Lute is she cares about Adam, a lot. She genuine cared about him, likely idolized him due to him being the first man and an influential figure of Heaven. She managed to move up in the ranks and due to her believing in him, stayed around him. They are always together. This caused them to rub off on each other, became more in sync and unfortunately enable the worse tendencies of each other making them worse in several ways. I don’t believe it’s a sexual thing either. Despite Adam being Adam, something tells me he wouldn’t screw it up with Lute while literally screwing other women. If anyone knew everything about him, it was Lute. One more reason they were able to say anything to each other, in the end they both knew they were friends, not that they'd ever really say it. Otherwise does anyone think Adam would put up with Lute hushing him up in Heaven about the exterminations. Devils in the details. Adam specifically wasn't cool with Lute shushing him, but didn't want to make a scene in public. Maybe it's just that he's a misogynistic fratbro leading a genocidal army of beautiful young women who (according to an admittedly mysterious and not-entirely-reliable sorting system) were once decent people, but I do not have an especially charitable read on their relationship. Lute reads as the head cultist to me, with all that implies.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 19:47
|
|
|
Dapper_Swindler posted:Basically watch the pilot of hazbin and then the show. Skip helluva boss pilot and just watch that straight through. It’s the same universe but no crossover really. The wiki is over complicated by people throwing fan theory in there and Alastor being a character she made for some universe she made as a college student mixed with other stuff. It’s not kingdom hearts or the extended storyline of assassin creed. I'm going to second this as the Helluva boss pilot is non canon so it doesn't really effect the events of the either show in any meaningful way. It's also the weakest of the entire lot in my opinion so no big loss if you give it a miss. Hazbin's pilot on the other hand is soft canon as nothing really contradicts itself aside from new character voices and designs. Also as a warning take ANY wiki info with a heavy grain of salt. I've seen some fairly stupid omissions and fan edits that pointlessly make things confusing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 21:11
|
|
|
Hazbin Hotel pilot is important to watch, but the Helluva Boss pilot can be skipped completely and you'll miss nothing, and you're doing yourself a favor by not experiencing Pilot Moxxie
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 21:18
|
|
|
Flopsy posted:I'm going to second this as the Helluva boss pilot is non canon so it doesn't really effect the events of the either show in any meaningful way. It's also the weakest of the entire lot in my opinion so no big loss if you give it a miss. Hazbin's pilot on the other hand is soft canon as nothing really contradicts itself aside from new character voices and designs. Hazbin also directly references the pilot at multiple points
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 21:30
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:Adam specifically wasn't cool with Lute shushing him, but didn't want to make a scene in public. Maybe it's just that he's a misogynistic fratbro leading a genocidal army of beautiful young women who (according to an admittedly mysterious and not-entirely-reliable sorting system) were once decent people, but I do not have an especially charitable read on their relationship. Lute reads as the head cultist to me, with all that implies. A fair interpretation of their relationship. It certainly can be that. I'm expecting for us to learn a lot more about Lute and her back ground as time goes on. I can see her surviving and not exactly changing but giving up on revenge once she goes through enough due to not having Adams influence to keep her at her worse. Or maybe Nifty will get a surprise stab in. We'll find out! The Hazbin Hotel pilot is worth a watch, it sets up so many things and is still cannon. They might tweak some details later but for now it's still good. As pointed out it is referenced several times. Plus it has one of the best laughs in the entire series. "Wow, that was poo poo".
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 22:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 10:35 |
|
|
Moxxie and Millie being originally intended for Hazbin makes some sense. I wonder if they were replaced by Razzle and Dazzle, or even Niffty; it's easy to see them as Charlie's servants or Hotel staff, Moxxie even still looks and acts more like a maitre'd than a hitman.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 22:34
|
|