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I mean, Angel of Vengeance is most interested in deleting the demons and their supporters, they're not necessarily after ALL evil people in their land. Camellia, while a horrible person, isn't in league with the demons so it's not like the Angel's going to go out of their way to go after her. As long as she's not doing it directly in front of them she's likely fine. Meanwhile, True Aeon is after EVERY lawbreaker (whether of cosmic or mortal ones) and can see transgressions just by looking at you. Of course she's running the hell away from that.
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Feb 18, 2024 19:55
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DTurtle posted:Well, in that case: pace yourself. Wouldn’t want to see you burn yourself out. I’m looking forward to having you show a game you like. Yeah, this is something I'm very concerned about after the Warcraft LP. As it is, I'm trying to end updates at logical points to take the story in bites, so updates may vary in length.
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Feb 18, 2024 20:28
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Lord Koth posted:Meanwhile, True Aeon is after EVERY lawbreaker (whether of cosmic or mortal ones) and can see transgressions just by looking at you. Of course she's running the hell away from that. Aeon is the most inconsistent mythic path when it comes to ideology and targets, but I'll go back to it when Cythereal actually reaches the beginning of Aeon path.
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Feb 18, 2024 20:39
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Cythereal posted:Yeah, this is something I'm very concerned about after the Warcraft LP. I’ve been wanting a completed screenshot LP of this game for a long time and believe you have the ability to create a good one. You have my support. Variety in update length is fine, everything is great so far. Just keep up the good work. I know the dangers of burnout well. Best of luck avoiding it and dealing with us once again.
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Feb 18, 2024 21:29
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achtungnight posted:I’ve been wanting a completed screenshot LP of this game for a long time and believe you have the ability to create a good one. You have my support. Variety in update length is fine, everything is great so far. Just keep up the good work. I know the dangers of burnout well. I second that focus on your sanity and quality, you do good lp work
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Feb 18, 2024 23:40
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Just got done with 'That Fight' in the Shield Maze and I hope that you show it, because I had to try it like 20 times.
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Feb 19, 2024 08:53
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Choosing Sides The Light of Heaven isn't just a RP thing! It is in fact an endlessly reusable magic power for Yua now, albeit an underwhelming one.  Lann immediately demonstrates the power of archers in this game. He has enough attack bonuses to make two attacks per round. Now, normally this would be firing two arrows at one target. But, since the first shot kills the first spider here, his second attack instead automatically targets another valid target in range - and kills the second spider in one shot as well. Melee attacks enjoy this same behavior, but bows of course are ranged weapons and enjoy a much wider range to chain attack like this.  These elementals are the first outsiders of the game, the general DnD term for beings from other planes of reality. Take note of all their immunities, if you play certain classes it's very important to check to see what might be resistant or immune to particular forms of attack.  While killing more hostile wildlife, Anevia demonstrates that while she's not actually a member of the party, she's very helpful. She follows the party around and attacks with a bow. You even get experience for anything she kills!  Yua finds her first weapon upgrade! 'Masterwork' is Gygaxian for a finely crafted weapon that's a cut above normal examples without actually being magical. Masterwork weapons, as this shows, typically grant a +1 attack bonus.   "I thought you considered the mongrels to be great warriors." "The descendants of great warriors. I believe that my people are worthy of greatness, that we are strong and can do many things — that's why we were chased down here, we scared people. But it's one thing to go hunting in the caves, and another to fight in the Shield Maze." (Wenduag leans closer, her pupils dilating.) "I've been there. I've spent my whole life training so I can make it through all the way to the end. There were more of us trackers at the start. We were young and stupid. What's a couple of monsters when there's a whole world out there waiting for us? That's what we thought. But we weren't prepared. The Maze isn't just a physical challenge — it's cunning and full of traps. It's dark as the primordial night. And if you close your eyes and listen, you hear whispers right behind you, and soft singing in the distance that seems to rise and fall with the beating of your heart. (Wenduag looks away.) "I had to learn from my friends' mistakes. I had to step over their bodies and go further. I don't want to have to do that again... And it will happen again if a crowd of ill-prepared fighters burst into the Maze with no idea where they're going, all because Lann believes that a glowing sword will solve all our problems." "Lann is sure the Light should be shown to the mongrels."Lann has presented his point of view on the Light of Heaven and the mongrels, now Wenduag's selling her take.  "Don't you want to save the kids lost in the Maze?" "I do want to. But I'm not going to risk the future of the tribe for the sake of a few stupid kids. Chief Sull is hesitant, and for good reason. He also understands how dangerous this is for the tribe. Lann's the only one who benefits from these childish games of heroism. I'll go alone if I have to and find them, or whatever's left of them. Without any heroics, relying only on myself. Risking only my own life." (Wenduag slows.) "You and your friends... you can come with me. Perhaps we can make it to the end of the Maze together and find the way out to the surface." "I'll think about it. Let's go." (Wenduag nods.) "Don't show the Chief the Light, and I'll lead you through the Maze to the surface. I swear it."One problem, though: Wenduag is lying. About what, we'll see in due time, but she's pushing an agenda just as hard as Lann is. Both of them want to turn this situation to their advantage, and both of them in their ways do want a better future for their people.  Door symbols like this mark a map transition.  Which brings us to Neathholm, the mongrel village.    "Chief Sull! We found the angel's sword! And we found the one who can wield it." (Lann points at you.) "She had a vision and now the angel's sword together with the Light of Heaven are somehow... inside her. Gather the tribe! Anyone who can hold a weapon. The young ones are still alive, we can go save them!" (Sull raises his hand with ragged, broken fingernails.) "Ah... Lann, alwaysh dreaming, alwaysh talking. You're too hashty, too hashty for your own good. It'sh going to get you in trouble." (Sull eyes you up and down.) "An uplander with the Light o' Heaven... That'sh too good for ush. Our kind don't have good thingsh happen — there'sh alwaysh a catch. Lann trustsh people becaush he likesh to believe. Ishn't that right, Lann? I'm the chief, I don't work on faith. Show the Light."In case it isn't obvious, Lann and Wenduag are in fact mutually exclusive companions for the most part, and this is the crux.  So it's worth considering, what are Lann and Wenduag asking Yua to do? Yua found the sword, which gave her a vision that we the player and readers know for a fact she experienced but no one else in-game can actually verify. The vision gave Yua what appears to have been a glimpse of the angel Lariel's final moments, but we have no way to confirm this. A radiant energy lit up the sword and transferred into Yua, healing a mysterious wound on her chest that Terendelev, a silver dragon, could not identify or cure. Yua can now summon this light on command. For reasons unknown, this light and vision appeared only to Yua - not to Seelah, an actual paladin of Iomedae, nor to Anevia or Camellia. The mongrels face an uncertain future, torn between an old religious belief that Heaven favored them and has a purpose for them, and the grinding reality of lifetimes in the bleak dark as their bodies devolve. There is a place known as the Shield Maze that has historically stood between the mongrels and the surface, and the mongrel legends tell that the Shield Maze will vanish when the time comes for the mongrels to embrace their destiny. With tremors rocking the region (which we know are at least in part because of Deskari's assault on Kenabres), the Shield Maze has suffered damage and many children from Neathholm have run off believing the time is at hand. Lann is a strong believer in the old ways, and is convinced that the hour of prophecy is at hand. He believes that Yua is a bringer of hope and the sign that the mongrels have been waiting for, and he has presented this case in no uncertain terms to the actual political leader of the mongrels. Wenduag believes that not only has Heaven abandoned the mongrels and there is no purpose or prophecy as Lann believes, she believes that that tradition and belief have held the mongrels back and weakened them as a people. Wenduag believes that Lann is probably going to get himself killed, and is concerned that doing as Lann asks is going to drag the rest of the mongrels down with him. It's hard to say how cynical or truly devout Lann is. He has a desperate need to feel special and needed, but he's also not necessarily wrong at all, especially if you commit to the Angel mythic path. Lann has quite arguably misrepresented events to Sull, and he's put Yua on the spot over it. While there are other witnesses to what happened, the fact is that only Yua can produce the Light of Heaven and satisfy Sull's demand for evidence. Both Lann and Wenduag are trying to manipulate Yua and the situation to their own advantage. Both also sincerely believe they're acting for the best interests of their people: Lann is afraid that their people will lose hope and need something to believe in, Wenduag feels that their people need to abandon false hope and accept reality as it is. Lann is actively misrepresenting events, Wenduag is outright lying to us for reasons we'll see later.  My gut instinct on the spot was to tell the truth. My head was still spinning between the demonic attack and Lariel's vision, and I had a feeling that Lariel didn't mean for his sword to be hidden. Why the Light of Heaven chose me I didn't understand, but I'm a kitsune. Every kitsune learns as a child that there are times to pretend to be what you're not, and times to face the music as you are.  Don't worry about our future Azata acting a little bit Lawful here, there will be plenty of opportunities to be Chaotic later. Also, if you choose to not reveal the Light, something else will happen instead. One of those reasons being that it's always hard to tell when something isn't going to come back to bite you, and I was dealing with mongrels and angels and the power of Heaven. For all I knew, that would pop off on its own whether I wanted it to or not. Doesn't seem to have worked that way, with the benefit of hindsight, but I'd been having one of the worse days of my life up to that point and wasn't thinking all that clearly. (Lann gives you a nod of thanks. The scaled half of his face is indifferent, but the human half is visibly relieved. As if he wasn't sure all this time that you would support him.) (Wenduag hisses at you like an angry cat.) "See these fisherman and these hunters, these husks of men and women? Their blood will be on your hands!" "I'm not responsible for others' decisions." (Wenduag snarls in fury.) "And why are they making these decisions? Because of you! You've sealed their fate! You're a murderer!"Wenduag, as we've established, has zero faith in her people as they are. She's not necessarily wrong to think people are going to die because of the new hope Yua gave them, but they are people who do have free will. They could choose to follow Wenduag and disregard the light show, but Wenduag is smart enough to understand that her harder path doesn't appeal to many.  "You have the right of it, Lann. But we're neathers, we're going to wait. I shent a messenger to shummon all the tribesh. It will take time, yesh. But they will all come. They will all come for the Light. Wait, Lann. Wait, uplandersh. Resht a while in one of our hutsh. Our home ish your home." (Lann sighs.) "All right, Chief. Understood. Let's hope that a few hours isn't the difference between life and death for those kids. If they ask me what took us so long, I'll tell them it was your decision." (Wenduag only grits her teeth in silence.)If you play one of the good-aligned routes, a major theme of Wrath of the Righteous is the power of hope as a symbol. The mongrels are our first example of a people who have been teetering on the brink of losing hope in a dark and bleak situation, and Yua has now reignited that hope. Hope is no guarantee of succor or a happy ending, of course, but a kitsune bard in the wrong place and the wrong time just rekindled the hopes of an entire people she's only known existed for fifteen minutes. Before we move on, though, let's talk with Sull a little and get more information about Lann and Wenduag. Everything else he has to say is reiterating what Lann and Wenduag already told us.  "Ah, Wenduag! Our beauty, our huntressh. Who ish more shkilled than Wenduag? There are braver fighters, yesh, but brave doesn't mean shkilled. Wenduag ish the only one to go into the Maze and come out again. The othersh listen to everything she hash to say." "Lann..." (Sull makes a vague gesture.) "He'sh not one of ush. No, not one of ush. Hish father was one of ush, but hish mother — no. They took him up to the shurface, they ruined him as a child. Then they came back, but he washn't one of ush. A good hunter, yesh... But he feelsh trapped down here... But he can't go up there either. Sh'not safe. He wouldn't lasht a gong."Unspoken: both Wenduag and Lann are poised to potentially succeed Sull as leader of their people. Wenduag is famed for her exploits among her people, and considered the very best of them. Lann, on the other hand, is a half-breed who has never felt like he belonged here, he's lived on the surface before and feels caught between two worlds. Some more context for the conflict between the two of them, Wenduag is the true mongrel who has never known any life but this, Lann is a half-breed who feels trapped down here because of the prejudice he faced on the surface.  By the way, you're free to steal everything that's not nailed down. No one cares, you don't even get Chaotic or Evil points for it.  And as you can see from the + marks on everyone's portraits, the gang has leveled up!     Yua Level 2: +1 Bard (Bard 2) Class Features: Well Versed, Bard Talent Skills: +1 Perception, +1 Persuasion, +1 Knowledge World, +1 Knowledge Arcana, +1 Trickery Feat: Point-Blank Shot Spell: Sleep I will not show future level-ups in this much detail! For some reason, Yua has one less skill point than she did at the start, so despite me not putting points into Religion or Nature, she only has one spare skill point that I choose to put into Trickery - the skill used for picking locks, disabling traps, and so on and so forth. She also picks up Point Blank Shot from her bard talent to start her down the archery feat line, and Sleep as another crowd control spell.  Seelah Level 2: +1 Paladin (Paladin 2) Class Features: Divine Grace, Lay on Hands Skills: +2 Lore Religion Seelah now enjoys her CHA bonus as a bonus to all her saving throws (this is the Divine Grace class feature and makes Paladin 2 a popular dip for Charisma-heavy classes) and gets a new healing ability in Lay on Hands. She's tentatively going to be the Lore: Religion specialist.  Camellia Level 2: +1 Spirit Slayer (Spirit Slayer 2) Class Features: Hex (Protective Luck) Skills: +1 Mobility, +1 Trickery Cammy picks up an incredibly potent defensive ability in the form of her Hex. This is an ability she can bestow on others that forces enemies to re-roll successful hit rolls. This hex is a big part of what makes Camellia so powerful.  Lann Level 2: +1 Demonslayer (Zen Archer 1, Demonslayer 1) Class Features: N/A Skills: +1 Athletics, +1 Mobility, +1 Lore Nature Lann on the other hand is our first multiclass. While Zen Archer is perfectly fine to take to 20, I give him a level in Ranger, specifically the Demonslayer kit. Demonslayers trade the Ranger's versatility in advantages they can get against a variety of enemy types in exchange for becoming laser focused on killing demons. Since demons are about 80% of all enemies in this entire game, this is a drat good trade. Just from this one level, Lann gets +2 to attack and damage rolls against demons, and it's only going to get better. Demonslayer was my first character I beat the game with, straight Demonslayer 20, and you can do a hell of a lot worse for any combat-focused character. We'll ignore Wenduag's level for reasons that will become evident soon.   (An elderly man in expensive but not ostentatious clothes approaches you. His face is peppered with several healed cuts and bruises and twisted in an expression of extreme discontent.) "Allow me to introduce myself. My name is Horgus Gwerm. Yes, that Gwerm — you no doubt have heard of me if you've spent any time at all in the city. I have a business proposition for you." "Your name tells me nothing. Who are you?" "You truly are freshly arrived in the city, then? You couldn't have picked a worse time, that's for certain. Only just arrived, and the city's been razed to rubble! You should know that you are looking at one of the richest and most distinguished men in Kenabres. I may not be as well known as certain swaggering loudmouths who spend their lives traipsing from one ball to the next... But the Gwerm trading company is one of the pillars of the city, I'll have you know! Did you see the marquees in the square? I paid for those. Tried any festival delicacies? You have Horgus Gwerm to thank for that!" "How did you end up here?"This guy ambles up when you approach the main part of the village.  "Like everyone else — down I went when that accursed beetle cleaved the ground in twain beneath our feet. I'm lucky I didn't break my neck in the fall, and I'm doubly lucky that I didn't encounter any subterranean cockroaches on my blind wanderings and instead came across hunters from this settlement. Although I must say that when I first glimpsed their physiognomies, my life flashed before my very eyes... But they turned out to be decent chaps. Frightening to look at, but able to keep a bargain." "So, what kind of business proposition?" "I don't know what is happening on the surface right now, but I am determined to find out. You have no intention of seeing out the rest of your days in this village, I suspect. We must find a route back to the surface, to the city. If there's anything left of it. I don't know what good songs will do us in a dark hole like this, but people say that wandering troubadours can find their way out of any situation. I hope those were not just tall tales. You are strong, it will be no trouble to you. But I, alas, am not as fit as I once was. I can't go crawling about through caves, playing at scouts. My proposition is simple: lead me back to the city and I shall pay you a thousand gold coins."Note his bit about songs and troubadours - this is the first reactivity to Yua's class in the game! Horgus has a different line about every class group here.  "Deal." "Splendid. In the meantime I shall sit here, in the village."You can extort more money out of him for evil points.  We also have the first shop of the game!  The store window is pretty self-explanatory. Dyra doesn't have much of interest beyond a selection of oddball weapons in the event your took a class or feats focusing on a particular weapon that you didn't find one of yet (you can notice a bunch I looted here, including a kama and a greatsword), but she'll happily take all this off Yua's hands.   "Brilliant idea. How come I didn't think of it? Now if only the cultists would tell us they were cultists... Then we wouldn't have to waste time investigating honest citizens who decide to go all cloak and dagger right under our noses!" (orgus and Anevia sit some distance apart, sniping at one another in an idle fashion that testifies to their long acquaintance and mutual dislike. When they notice you, they quickly fall silent.) "What's the bad blood between the two of you about?" "It's an old matter... Ms. Tirabade here had the notion of spying on me, then of rummaging through my goods. I ask you, do I look like a cultist? Hmph!" "Cultists don't tend to look like cultists, y'know, that's kinda the whole problem. And you, Mr. Gwerm, built a whole secret operation of buying and smuggling into the city — what was it? — oh yeah, magical weapons. How was I s'posed to know that all the rigamarole with middlemen was so you could anonymously donate supplies to the crusade?" "Don't you see? I have a reputation to uphold, one that I value most highly. Horgus Gwerm is a hard-nosed businessman, not a good fairy from a tale. Yes, I care about my city. Yes, I wished to see that its defenders — my defenders! — were well fed, healthy, and well armed. But to make those donations openly was unthinkable — I might as well hang a sign outside my door welcoming in every sponger, leech, and parasite in the city!"Crusaders looking for cultists accidentally focusing on the wrong people is a thing we're going to deal with more than once in the game.  "Anevia, how's the leg?" (Anevia scrunches up her nose.) "Well, it hasn't fallen off yet — so that's good. They've bandaged me up all nice, and smeared some stinking stuff on the wound, so it looks like I'm gonna live! They said wait a day and I'll be right as rain. So I'm waitin'." "What do you make of the mongrels?" "I thought they were just a story — the sort of thing drunks in the taverns would come out with! Now I discover that it's true. Well, what can I possibly think of them? The poor creatures are most unfortunate, with their faces and their minds so deformed. It's a miracle they're even alive. Then again, speaking of stories... truth be told, stories are all I ever knew about kitsune. Word has it there is a lady diplomat in the capital — a true fox, both in looks and behavior. But I have never met her myself. Perhaps mongrels are not that exotic by comparison." "The part that boggles my mind is that they're the descendants of the first crusaders. All these years they've been living beneath our feet, in caves, in the dirt... If I'd known the legends about them were true, I'd have dedicated my life to getting them out of this place."Horgus again making the first special reaction to Yua being a kitsune. They seem to be considered, at least in Wrath, very rare in this part of the world but known to the educated and connected. Anevia is also uncommonly open-minded about the mongrels.  "We have to go." "Go on then, and don't dilly-dally. The sooner we get out of here, the likelier we are to find some people still alive up there!" "Take care of yourself."If you read the manual, Hulrun is explained to be infamously paranoid. He was a famed leader in the field, but after getting kicked upstairs has become increasingly paranoid and intolerant.  Nothing to do now but rest.  "What do you think happened to Wenduag?" (Lann shakes his head.) "I don't know. She was always stubborn. Maybe she decided she could do it all on her own. I hope she comes back — we'll struggle without her, and she'll struggle without us — no matter how hard she'd try to deny it." "Still, are you sure the Maze is the only way to the surface?" (Lann nods.) "There was another passage, the one I used with my dad when we left and then came back. The chief back then, he found it and filled it in, to stop anybody else going against the ancestors' wishes. And what the ancestors wanted was for everyone to go through the Maze. I'm not sure of anything right now, but we don't have a choice. We can only go forward." "Let's go. There's no time to lose." "Let's go. But before we do... thank you. I was so happy, I forgot to thank you before, but you've done something no one else has in a long time — you've given the mongrels hope. It's like we're starting to believe that we're worth something, now that we have the power of the angels on our side." (Lann's face grows sullen.)"It won't change anything, of course... but at least you'll help us save the young ones. Hopefully."Naturally, if you chose to not reveal the Light, Lann would leave instead and you'd have Wenduag on your side.  I've been racing through the first set of updates because this is all the tutorial phase of the game.  You didn't really think we'd sit back and let NPCs do all the work, did you?  Next time, the first proper dungeon crawl of the game! The Crimson Path Giant Spider x2 Young Giant Spider x2 Small Earth Elemental x2 Young Giant Fly x1 Spitting Giant Centipede x2 Monitor Lizard x1
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Feb 19, 2024 12:45
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Hi Neatholm, Bye Neatholm And here we visit Neatholm for the first and quite possibly last time in the game, depending on your choices and companion quests. I have to say it's a bit of a pity, since I personally think the mongrels are one of the AP's more unique aspects (I certainly don't recall other mongrel people making an appearance in the other APs), but eh, what can you do. In any case, there's not really much to say here AP-wise, so it won't be very long. That said, I also have to admit that reading Lann's dialogue is kind of odd. Not in how it's presented, but in that I've only ever taken him along instead of Wenduag once, and it's giving me an odd sense of deja vu reading his dialogue here   I still think he should've got a portrait in Wrath; I'd like to see what Owlcat's artists would have made of him. Chief Sull has a surprising amount of revealed backstory in the AP, and most of it can be naturally discovered by the players, as opposed to some other NPCs who just appear as minibosses (such as Wenduag). Unlike the relatively united, peaceful tribe among many he leads in Wrath, in the AP he's already dealing with a rebellion (of whom Wenduag is a part of), and is considerably a bit more hardline. More interesting is that Cyth is apparently taking a 'canon' approach, in that if the PCs need more help, Sull will send Lann off to further guide them and serve as envoy to the surfacers. Unfortunately for Wrath players, he doesn't give us the +1 morningstar AP players would have got   OG Hulrun, looking like even more of a hardass than in-game. I forgot to talk about Hulrun in the first AP-related post, so I might as well talk about him here. In the AP, he's infamous for both his witch burnings, but also for his leadership of Kenabres and his strategic genius in its defence. Unfortunately, all the strategic genius in the world couldn't protect against a demon the size of a building personally coming over to kick everyone's arses. True, it wasn't Deskari in the original AP, but honestly, for the average joe (hell, even for the average PC) it wouldn't really matter who Kenabres's butcher was, be it Deskari or some other greater Demon. There's a little more to say about his AP incarnation, but that can wait for later.  I can't be the only one who finds 'Horgus Gwerm' to be an inherently funny name, can I? And here we finally meet Horgus Gwerm. In the original AP, he, Anevia and Aravashnial were supposed to be the three NPCs who were with the PCs in the festival square and fell down the hole alongside them. Where Anevia and Aravashnial were both Good-aligned (NG and CG respectively) and highly capable (if somewhat hindered to allow the PCs to shine), Horgus was... neither. If Wrath (the CRPG) has hope as its main theme, the AP's narrative thread is one of passing trials and being rewarded for them- and Horgus is your PCs' first such trial. A Lawful Neutral merchant without PC classes and a Karen personality before we coined the word (heck, just look at his dialogue in the LP- that was him being nice), Horgus was there to test both the PCs' builds and their patience. However, a party that managed to haul his fat arse out of the underground and into safety would find themselves with a steadfast, actually-bluntly-honest ally for at least the next book, and perhaps beyond depending on how reliant the party was on spending money.
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Feb 19, 2024 13:40
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Cythereal posted:For some reason, Yua has one less skill point than she did at the start I can explain this one. The CRPG games use a modified Skill system option from the Pathfinder Unchained sourcebook called Consolidated Skills, so that there's only 12 of them instead of 35 or so. In the original PU version of these rules, classes got a number of Skill Points equal to a guaranteed number (For Bards it is 3) + 1/2 their character's INT modifier, which had the issue of making any modifier that wasn't an even number much less appealing. In the move to a CRPG, Owlcat tweaked it so that characters with an odd numbered INT mod get 1 extra point at every odd level to equal that half-point they should be getting.
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Feb 19, 2024 14:05
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Oooh, I spotted a cold iron masterwork greataxe at the trader. Shiny. Looks perfect for chopping and cleaving through demon guts with.
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Feb 19, 2024 14:18
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ChaosStar0 posted:Just got done with 'That Fight' in the Shield Maze and I hope that you show it, because I had to try it like 20 times. If you’re talking about the fight I think you are, it’s not that hard on Story difficulty if you know what’s coming. Haggling with Horgus is a neutral act, not evil. In fact, if you worship Abadar, you can skip the persuasion check by reminding him it’s considered a sin to underpay services in Abadar’s church! Looting and selling excess weapons and armor is a quick path to wealth in this game.
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Feb 19, 2024 15:49
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In fairness to the crusader intelligence services in this instance, smuggling in large numbers of weapons is one of those insanely suspicious things that'll always draw their attention when noticed. It'd be incredibly suspicious even if there wasn't a known threat of hidden cultists.Cythereal posted:
Because this will be potentially confusing to people, Lann's not getting 2 attacks here because of attack bonus. He's getting 2 attacks because Zen Archer isn't even using attack bonus to determine the number of attacks in the first place. They've got a special ability that lets them use their Flurry of Blows progression for ranged attacks instead of the norm.
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Feb 19, 2024 16:01
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To answer a question I got on discord: the 'Crimson Path' thing I'm doing isn't just me being probably neurodivergent. After all the shade I threw Warcraft during that LP and my general growing dissatisfaction with portrayals of violence and heroism, I thought it would be interesting to record just how much death and bloodshed the heroes of this game will cause in the war against the Worldwound. So each update I'm making note of everything and everyone the party kills during that update. So far the gang has killed 13 wild animals and 2 elementals.
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Feb 19, 2024 16:13
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Cythereal posted:Choosing Sides CommissarMega posted:Hi Neatholm, Bye Neatholm
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Feb 19, 2024 17:02
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Cythereal posted:the Shield Maze spooking the locals C'mon, we have to tackle it and we're just level 2 - it's can't be that hard! Cythereal posted:To answer a question I got on discord: the 'Crimson Path' thing I'm doing isn't just me being probably neurodivergent. After all the shade I threw Warcraft during that LP and my general growing dissatisfaction with portrayals of violence and heroism, I thought it would be interesting to record just how much death and bloodshed the heroes of this game will cause in the war against the Worldwound. So each update I'm making note of everything and everyone the party kills during that update. May I suggest making a note of "this session" and "total", if it's not too much of a bother?
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Feb 19, 2024 17:12
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DTurtle posted:I really appreciate the additional thoughts you are adding into the LP. It really helps putting everything happening and the decisions being made into context (something that easily gets lost when you aren't playing yourself). To be honest, this is a big part of why I'm doing this LP, and why I got this update out so early.  After I recorded the update, I started chewing on what exactly the situation was here, what was at stake, and what Lann's and Wenduag's angles were. And I wanted to share those thoughts, so that turned into this.I find that writing things out really helps me put my own thoughts in order.
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Feb 19, 2024 19:52
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I always struggle with assigning morality in some of these fantasy settings. In our reality, the only threats to us humans are things fully out of our control (gamma ray burst/huge earthquakes/etc.), or entirely manmade (war, global warming, poverty). But in these settings, there are outside forces willing and potentially able to eradicate/enslave all of mankind, and I'm really not sure whether that should be reason to excuse some abhorrent behavior or not. I'm really looking forward to Cythereal interacting with Hulrun and some other characters.
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Feb 19, 2024 20:16
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Torrannor posted:But in these settings, there are outside forces willing and potentially able to eradicate/enslave all of mankind, and I'm really not sure whether that should be reason to excuse some abhorrent behavior or not. I think it should depend on the scale and/or survival prospects; even assuming the non-involvement of PC characters, there are plenty of ways and means to root out most demonic infiltrators without resorting to witch burnings, for example. If a demon horde is about to burn down a city, then it might be worth giving anyone who isn't a mass-murderer a sword and crossbow, even if the Paladin's Detect Evil-o-Meter's pinging like a police siren.
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Feb 19, 2024 20:43
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For a tiny bit of lore stuff. For those more familiar with D&D lore like me Pathfinder Demons work differently than D&D Demons in relation to death. In D&D whenever a Demon dies on another plane they respawn in the Abyss, generally have issues leaving it for a time, and only truly die if they are killed in the Abyss. Pathfinder Demons meanwhile just die when they are killed, only Demon Lords have special protection from death namely that they respawn in their lair if killed, and only die for real if killed a second time within a year.
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Feb 19, 2024 20:55
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Torrannor posted:I always struggle with assigning morality in some of these fantasy settings. In our reality, the only threats to us humans are things fully out of our control (gamma ray burst/huge earthquakes/etc.), or entirely manmade (war, global warming, poverty). But in these settings, there are outside forces willing and potentially able to eradicate/enslave all of mankind, and I'm really not sure whether that should be reason to excuse some abhorrent behavior or not. Can't you fold the outside forces into the natural disasters, as far as morality goes? I mean, "demon horde" could be as much as uncontrollable (or talkable!) as a hurricane. Might as well put them into "man vs nature", rather than "man vs man". (Are pathfinder's demons like that? Dunno the setting, and my d&d knowledge's rusty about the planes.)
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Feb 19, 2024 21:01
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Gun Jam posted:Can't you fold the outside forces into the natural disasters, as far as morality goes? I mean, "demon horde" could be as much as uncontrollable (or talkable!) as a hurricane. Might as well put them into "man vs nature", rather than "man vs man". Patience. The game will in fact talk about this sort of thing.
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Feb 19, 2024 21:04
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Some additional hurdles to state-sponsored violence in the Pathfinder setting- character alignment and personality are a big deal. There’s also no established tribunal for war crimes like The Hague and when your war has been going on for nearly a century… you’re going to have a lot of war crimes. Not just on the Demon side either. There are plenty of nations in play on the anti-Demon side, at least some of which are sponsored by evil deities interested in bringing the Abyssal chaos to heel or exploiting it for personal gain. Your player character can also share such patronage. Let’s not forget magical domination is a possibility in this setting also. But I will let Cythreal get into things. Let’s just say I too am looking forward to her take on certain topics and game characters. I’m sure an insurance company in a demon war zone would either be charging enormous rates or bankrupt due to excessive claims. Possibly both.
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Feb 19, 2024 21:36
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achtungnight posted:I’m sure an insurance company in a demon war zone would either be charging enormous rates or bankrupt due to excessive claims. Possibly both. They'll pay out for weaker demons but tend to have an "act of demon god" clause to avoid paying claims, and will get very argumentative about what doesn't count.
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Feb 19, 2024 21:43
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Please stop with the wink-wink nudge-nudge poo poo y'all.
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Feb 19, 2024 21:55
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Pouring one out for my homie Monitor Lizard
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Feb 19, 2024 22:47
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Torrannor posted:I always struggle with assigning morality in some of these fantasy settings.
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Feb 19, 2024 22:57
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Ooo, good to see someone taking another swing at this game after the last LP of it died for reasons I won't get into. I'm guessing you're just playing the game raw with no mods?
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Feb 19, 2024 22:59
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Rorahusky posted:I'm guessing you're just playing the game raw with no mods? Correct. No mods, no DLC except the free updates. I will download Toybox only if I need to in the event of the game breaking.
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Feb 19, 2024 23:00
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Cythereal posted:Correct. No mods, no DLC except the free updates. Probably for the best. Last thing we need is a game update breaking a vital mod and forcing the LP to go on hiatus while waiting for mods to get fixed.
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Feb 19, 2024 23:11
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Rogue AI Goddess posted:My preferred interpretation of D&D/Pathfinder alignment is "Good/Evil is how you treat those weaker than you; Law/Chaos is how you treat those stronger than you". Another one I saw is Law/Chaos being your view on a structured social order and Good/Evil being your value of human life.
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Feb 19, 2024 23:14
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Vargatron posted:Another one I saw is Law/Chaos being your view on a structured social order and Good/Evil being your value of human life. For Pathfinder, this is actually the better viewpoint, with the addendum of your actions/inactions also playing a part in it- it's entirely possible for someone who likes to consider themself a good person to be considered Evil (or at least Neutral) by both cosmology and Detect Evil effects simply because they're too apathetic to do anything but stand by when evil is done. It's also possible for someone who is a right Evil bastard to bump themself up a few alignment points to 'officially' Neutral if they take enough steps to mitigate the harm they do, e.g. a ruthless politician who sponsors good works and manages to keep their evildoing above-board by manipulating local laws.
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Feb 19, 2024 23:30
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would it be possible to increase the contrast on the text boxes, or just crop and post the text boxes? i'm having some trouble reading them
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Feb 20, 2024 00:46
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biosterous posted:would it be possible to increase the contrast on the text boxes, or just crop and post the text boxes? i'm having some trouble reading them Unfortunately there's nothing I can do about the contrast in the text boxes without affecting contrast for the whole game. In the future I'll crop and post the text boxes directly.
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Feb 20, 2024 00:56
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If I recall correctly, one complaint with the alignment system in this game is that actions pull your overall alignment towards the cardinal direction associated with the choice. So if your Lawful Neutral character were to take a Good action, it would shift their alignment diagonally towards Neutral Good. I believe one of the most popular mods changes this so that alignment shifts only occur on the relevant axis. Up/down for Good/Evil and left/right for Law/Chaos.
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Feb 20, 2024 00:57
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I know. I plan to talk about the alignment system in this game in the future. Right now I'm intending to finish the tutorial part of the game for the LP. Also, I checked mods and alas nothing for contrast in text boxes. There are mods to add romances for two future companions who can't currently be romanced, but nothing for that more prosaic purpose.
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Feb 20, 2024 00:58
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Cythereal posted:I know. I plan to talk about the alignment system in this game in the future. Right now I'm intending to finish the tutorial part of the game for the LP. I’m familiar with one of those romance mods but not the other. Can you send me a link by PM? Waiting till the relevant character is introduced is also fine. Thx.
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Feb 20, 2024 01:48
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Cythereal posted:Lann on the other hand is our first multiclass. While Zen Archer is perfectly fine to take to 20, I give him a level in Ranger, specifically the Demonslayer kit. Demonslayers trade the Ranger's versatility in advantages they can get against a variety of enemy types in exchange for becoming laser focused on killing demons. Since demons are about 80% of all enemies in this entire game, this is a drat good trade. Just from this one level, Lann gets +2 to attack and damage rolls against demons, and it's only going to get better. I've never quite been sure where I stand on conditional or situational abilities like this. Stuff like Favored Enemy makes sense in a way. A hunter would know their prey, more specifically how to kill them, how to track them, how to avoid being killed by them. The kind of thing that just makes sense for a class like Ranger lorewise. But mechanically abilities like that are often sketchy, especially when playing with a Dungeon Master. One reason why the initial version of Ranger from 5E was so wimpy is because two of its core traits, Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer, only worked on your favorite enemy and terrain. At any point, the Dungeon Master could just, stop having those creatures appear, or move the campaign to a different biome and cripple you. It feels weird to have an ability that only works in certain circumstances when other classes have permanent, always functional abilities or traits. Of course, this is a Video Game and not a tabletop so there are no cruel DMs to separate us from our favorite prey, or kind DMs to lightly sprinkle the entire campaign with them. In this case, a demonslayer is probably the best choice and it has been lightly hinted that demons are going to be our enemy of choice.
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Feb 20, 2024 02:05
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glwgameplayer posted:I've never quite been sure where I stand on conditional or situational abilities like this. Stuff like Favored Enemy makes sense in a way. A hunter would know their prey, more specifically how to kill them, how to track them, how to avoid being killed by them. The kind of thing that just makes sense for a class like Ranger lorewise. That's a bizarre change, from a lore perspective at least. Like, if I know such-and-such creature well enough to place my attacks towards more vulnerable areas (what FE presumably stands for), whether I'm seeing it in a forest or a plains or whatever really shouldn't matter. Anyways, the thing with all these conditional abilities is that you really just need to talk with your DM for recommendations, or, lacking that, go with the list of super common enemy types and hope for the best. There's definitely the chance of the ability feeling useless, but types like Undead and Constructs are almost always useful at some point, for instance. Anyways, Pathfinder actually does have a cheat around this for Rangers, as there's a 3rd level Ranger spell (so Ranger level 10) called Instant Enemy. Which does exactly what it implies - you now count the targeted enemy as one of your highest bonus Favored Enemies. This kind of bridges the issue, as you still have some coverage over other enemy types that you didn't pick, even if it's only a limited number of targets per day.
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Feb 20, 2024 02:30
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glwgameplayer posted:In this case, a demonslayer is probably the best choice and it has been lightly hinted that demons are going to be our enemy of choice. I'd call it 80% demons, 10% undead, 10% everything else. Wrath is, uh, not subtle about what you'll spend most of the game fighting. In general, situational trap choices like you mention are anything that applies to anything else. Case in point, the Cheliaxian Diabloist background, which gives a +4 AC against devils. Not demons, devils. I think you can count the number of devils you fight in this game on one hand.
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Feb 20, 2024 02:32
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Cythereal posted:I'd call it 80% demons, 10% undead, 10% everything else. Wrath is, uh, not subtle about what you'll spend most of the game fighting. its one of the weirder expressions of the age-old nerd curse of overdetailing. the idea of having trained your character to be The Best at the thing they do, and oh hey, that time has come and now it's my time to shine, is extremely cool. providing mechanical support to that idea, also, is cool, and part of the fun for character optimizers. unfortunately after you've spent a few years establishing all the different fiddly little ways to do that, you have given your players a massive tome of homework they have to do, produced a rat's nest of unintended interactions between all the fiddly little ways to do that, and also made your own job of balancing out encounters an insane nightmare. something that will make the optimized character work for it is going to annihilate Billy the Human Fighter as he walks into the room, and something that will make Billy the Human Fighter feel like he's contributing will fall over if the optimized character looks in its general direction. and then when you take the optimized character out of the situation they're optimized for, the problem reverses itself. in conclusion gaming is a land of contrasts
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Feb 20, 2024 02:42
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