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Seltzer posted:You can do it out of his qcf stance if you hold down at the end Aha, that's what I was doing. I was wondering why I was so much better at doing it than any other WC move.
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Feb 20, 2024 01:14
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My biggest complaint with the game as it stands is that rage arts are far too potent for what they are. I'll grant that some of this is skill issue, but a nearly instant start-up that can essentially interrupt anything on command with no counter other than block and punish feels pretty bad. Having to play ultra conservative when someone has it kinda sucks. I imagine it'll get better when I stop playing against people who throw it out raw. The only upside is punishing it is fun and hilarious because of all the buildup. Also the scenes are way too long and I've already gotten tired of seeing them. When will developers learn that the launch hype doesn't last on this poo poo? Finally gotten to a place where I'm winning as often as I'm losing. That was probably one of the hardest initial starts to a fighting game I've ever had. My movement still sucks, I need to use my b1 more often, I rarely manage to force a whiff punish, my combos are rear end, I still press into unfamiliar strings, I really need to take advantage of the crouch dash Feng has for mobility as well as mix, and all in all I suck immensely at this game and probably won't ever get as good as I can in other fighters. But tbh that's not a bad thing since I can let go of the self imposed pressure to constantly improve.
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Feb 20, 2024 02:55
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Starting to think of changing my default i10 punish for feng from 122. I sometimes mess it up and hit 1,1 which is annoying and I really shouldn't be loving it up but w/e. Anyways the 1,3 punish is +8 on hit which imo is a better tradeoff (?) than +3 from 1,2,2 and only and extra 2 damage (24 vs 26). Gonna start using 1+2 more also forgot it had a built in punch parry
Seltzer fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Feb 20, 2024 |
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Feb 20, 2024 02:58
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unattended spaghetti posted:My biggest complaint with the game as it stands is that rage arts are far too potent for what they are. I'll grant that some of this is skill issue, but a nearly instant start-up that can essentially interrupt anything on command with no counter other than block and punish feels pretty bad. Having to play ultra conservative when someone has it kinda sucks. I imagine it'll get better when I stop playing against people who throw it out raw. The only upside is punishing it is fun and hilarious because of all the buildup. RA is serves a double purpose, both of them serve new players and casuals watching tournaments- To provide a come back mechanic and to make new players feel powerful since theyll be losing a lot by pressing one button and the RAs "look cool" to a casual audience watching. The good news is its less of an issue when you get past the beginner stage, you'll learn to play around it eventually but I think it should go and just have rage left. I listened to a pod with some tekken guys and they came to the same conclusion.
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Feb 20, 2024 03:01
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unattended spaghetti posted:Also the scenes are way too long and I've already gotten tired of seeing them. When will developers learn that the launch hype doesn't last on this poo poo? the intent behind rage arts/supers/etc. having long cutscenes isn't necessarily "check out how sick this looks" (though that's part of it), but rather that they're almost always deployed in a moment of intense pressure, and those 10-ish seconds of pause gives both the person deploying them and the person on the receiving end time to think of a strategy once the cinematic ends
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Feb 20, 2024 03:03
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Vermain posted:the intent behind rage arts/supers/etc. having long cutscenes isn't necessarily "check out how sick this looks" (though that's part of it), but rather that they're almost always deployed in a moment of intense pressure, and those 10-ish seconds of pause gives both the person deploying them and the person on the receiving end time to think of a strategy once the cinematic ends Dude we already have 7 second launches for that lol. To be serious one of the ways I knew I had some mastery over the game was when I started using launches to think about my metagame in the match instead of worrying what to do next, what tmoves to when etc. Seltzer fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Feb 20, 2024 |
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Feb 20, 2024 03:06
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It really does feel like rage art to steal rounds is so incredibly common in 8 compared to 7, for real. I'm guessing that part of it is that the other aggression oriented mechanics make it a very real callout that catches people (it's shown up even in high level play), and also it's the only thing you can cash out rage for, in 7 most good players would use rage drives which were more reasonable (and also shorter lol). It does have me more conscious of enemy health, like stopping before you put them into rage and then being able to kill them with one more interaction is like a real thing to consider at the end of rounds
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Feb 20, 2024 03:10
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Seltzer posted:Starting to think of changing my default i10 punish for feng from 122. I sometimes mess it up and hit 1,1 which is annoying and I really shouldn't be loving it up but w/e. Anyways the 1,3 punish is +8 on hit which imo is a better tradeoff (?) then the +3 from 1,2,2 and only and extra 2 damage (24 vs 26). Gonna start using 1+2 more also forgot it had a built in punch parry I really appreciate you mentioning your strategy changes cause I am stealing them liberally. 11 is cool cause the second hit is mid, but it's kinda laggy and this happens to me too. I just found out today though that 122 can put you in back turned with a held b at the end, which is pretty cool. Though I can't really seem to get people to eat the bt3 reliably. It's kinda slow. I guess that's the trade off for being +8 on block hahaha
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Feb 20, 2024 03:20
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Seltzer posted:Starting to think of changing my default i10 punish for feng from 122. I sometimes mess it up and hit 1,1 which is annoying and I really shouldn't be loving it up but w/e. Anyways the 1,3 punish is +8 on hit which imo is a better tradeoff (?) then the +3 from 1,2,2 and only and extra 2 damage (24 vs 26). Gonna start using 1+2 more also forgot it had a built in punch parry Just because you don't mention it here, 122 while holding back gives you the back turn mixup as well (edit: doh, posted too late, mentioned above). Granted the +8 might be better than backturn, but I like to throw in a backturn every now and then just to keep them confused. I've also started hitting 112 ever since I started playing Reina and it's one of the more annoying muscle memory changes when switching back and forth. CharlieFoxtrot posted:It really does feel like rage art to steal rounds is so incredibly common in 8 compared to 7, for real. I also forgot about rage drives. I loved Fengs blue back slam rage drive. So many matches ended with a freeze frame of Feng's back hitting them just before they launched across the entire arena... rage arts for noobs, rage drives for pros. I guess the heat system kind of replaces them, but doesn't get rid of the rage arts. I hope it doesn't become common in higher ranks to end combos on rage arts because they don't have other uses. I haven't really encountered it but I could see it being a thing and I don't want to watch cutscenes over and over again.
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Feb 20, 2024 03:28
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unattended spaghetti posted:I really appreciate you mentioning your strategy changes cause I am stealing them liberally. 11 is cool cause the second hit is mid, but it's kinda laggy and this happens to me too. I just found out today though that 122 can put you in back turned with a held b at the end, which is pretty cool. Though I can't really seem to get people to eat the bt3 reliably. It's kinda slow. I guess that's the trade off for being +8 on block hahaha Don't sleep on 2,4 for a 10 frame either. It's a much safer way to mid check people ducking jabs than 1,1 is, albiet with less payoff. Also has a chunky mid follow up with 2,4,1 that can be canceled into backturn as well. I find 2,4 better at range 1-2 because the mid kick has decent range for it's speed.
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Feb 20, 2024 03:35
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Nice Van My Man posted:Just because you don't mention it here, 122 while holding back gives you the back turn mixup as well (edit: doh, posted too late, mentioned above). Granted the +8 might be better than backturn, but I like to throw in a backturn every now and then just to keep them confused. Yeah im gonna keep the 122 BT as a backup punish to catch people out but I think 1,3 is just a better tool for a primary punish, you can go into f2 (f212) sequence fishing for counter or df3 for a launch that will at worst trade if they jab. unattended spaghetti posted:I really appreciate you mentioning your strategy changes cause I am stealing them liberally. 11 is cool cause the second hit is mid, but it's kinda laggy and this happens to me too. I just found out today though that 122 can put you in back turned with a held b at the end, which is pretty cool. Though I can't really seem to get people to eat the bt3 reliably. It's kinda slow. I guess that's the trade off for being +8 on block hahaha 1,1 is fine to mix in with other pressure when its your turn. During back turned the 1+2 move is your friend. His BT throw is also very good if you're close enough. For BT 3 you need space, its a good follow up to use if you hit them with 1+2 during Heat. Seltzer fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Feb 20, 2024 |
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Feb 20, 2024 03:58
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I stole a set point from a 15 dan Victor tonight as 14 dan Zafina with a properly spaced whiff punish RA today so for now it is a good mechanic
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Feb 20, 2024 04:12
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Feng's backturn throw is also noteworthy for being one of the few truely random throw mixups in the game. It's impossible to tell what break to use if he throws you from backturn, since the 2+3 throw has the same animation as the 1+3 throw. This means you don't need to worry as much about your opponent being a master throw breaker.
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Feb 20, 2024 04:18
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And it looks very cool
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Feb 20, 2024 04:20
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Ok here's a question about the bt throw. Good or bad idea to side step 2 for plus three and then throw? My heart says good, but I feel like I'm missing something there. Ah and one more. Is uf3+4 worth a poo poo? I'm thinking no but it is so cool hahaha unattended spaghetti fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Feb 20, 2024 |
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Feb 20, 2024 04:22
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unattended spaghetti posted:Ok here's a question about the bt throw. Good or bad idea to side step 2 for plus three and then throw? My heart says good, but I feel like I'm missing something there. Yeah thats a good follow up. I re went through the move list today and saw that and thought about it and I dont think uf 3+4 is bad but also it seems really situational idk,. It goes under highs and has a decent frame start up... like you could catch someone out crouching with it but most people won't be crouching from the range you'd want to use it I think. I could be wrong, it seems like a move that isn't bad but isnt key. I would always use uf 3+4,3 tho cause thats not punishable. Two new things I've been mixing in, well one very new one a week old. Feng has a long string with a lot of variations in it (mid low mid mid), it probably can be jabbed or something but you can do the whole thing and not get punished if they block the last hit. The B2,3,4,2 one. I'm now tossing it out once a set to catch people out. Knowledge check. I try to avoid stuff that will get my rear end kicked at higher levels (things like getting dependent on Snake edges etc.) but this seems like a useful tool to gently caress with Reds and Purples so far. Also 3, 1+2 and hold to charge and ff 1+2 hold to charge have been working good for me at these levels. Again might get caught out at higher ranks but the delay either makes people take the hit or take the big plus frames (just make sure its your turn when using these). If you hit them with ff 1+2 with heat you have a guaranteed 10 frame follow up on block (and you can spend meter to hit b1 b1+2 as your 10 frame too). It's a good option with or without heat to throw out at the wall when the opponent is getting up. Seltzer fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Feb 20, 2024 |
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Feb 20, 2024 04:45
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At higher levels I'd use b2 just so that people would crouch thinking I was doing that string, then I'd hit them with the b4 which I believe is the fastest mid in the game. I'd only do that for round enders when adrenaline was high and I needed something to confuse them, but it almost always worked. I've also heard people say that b2 can be good to throw out because the animation looks similar to d2, so if you think they're being hyper vigilant for a d2 it can catch them off guard. If I thought I was throwing out too many d2s I'd mix in some b2s just to mess with people. Knowledge checks strings have their uses even once everyone's memorized them, you can use the trauma to your advantage. Granted it's pretty situational and not something you'd want to use regularly. Also just because I don't think it's been mentioned in this thread, just in case some Feng player is missing this, his b1 gets a guaranteed b1+2 if you do a little micro dash forward.
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Feb 20, 2024 05:08
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I only rage art when I misinput some sort of f 1 2 option. 90% of my rage arts are misinputs.
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Feb 20, 2024 05:28
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Does the steam achievement for beating the game with Jin victorious mean there is one for losing to the final boss?
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Feb 20, 2024 05:44
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Feb 20, 2024 06:47
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As ever thanks for all the tech guys. Can't believe I settled on Feng and there are so many people here who play him. How about the db1,2 string? I don't know the frames on it but I haven't been punished for it and it has good range, if a bit slow.
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Feb 20, 2024 07:38
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Tekken Talk stream mostly seemed dedicated to shilling Tekken OSTs and various Tekken branded clothes, but in terms of actual game relevant stuff so far - it confirms the microtransaction shop will be accompanied by a premium currency (surprising nobody) with skins looking to be around USD$3.99 each and that the accompanying update will focus on bug fixes and adjustments for moves that aren't functioning as intended (e.g. Victor throw escape windows) rather than balance adjustments. edit: Now shilling S.H.Figuarts and Nendoroid figures. lol at this whole stream 
Mode 7 fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Feb 20, 2024 |
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Feb 20, 2024 09:33
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God I pine for the day in-game currencies are murdered. It’s such a scammy, nasty concept that’s only ignored because it’s so widespread we’ve become apathetic to it.
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Feb 20, 2024 10:29
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Well, aside from hawking merch, they did have a long frank discussion about stuff they wanted to add and some current issues, including: - Wanting to add story mode content for DLC characters - That they are aware of people Plugging, but they are trying to be careful about how to best handle it, since outright bans may step on some laws. - Some talks about a 3 v 3 or 5 v 5 team battle modes (For actual tag mechanics, they basically rule it out because of how the stages are) Oh, and they fire up a dev build to show of Eddy, who is basically a mostly new character and now has a Jamie-like stacking buff mechanic. One thing I liked as a full circle 'Art imitates life imitates art' moment is that they mention that the T8 mocap actor for Eddy actually learned Capoeira after seeing Eddy and now is an actual instructor.
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Feb 20, 2024 11:06
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new Eddy seems weird
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Feb 20, 2024 11:30
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The Shame Boy posted:Does the steam achievement for beating the game with Jin victorious mean there is one for losing to the final boss?  Yes. Attack on Princess fucked around with this message at 11:51 on Feb 20, 2024 |
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Feb 20, 2024 11:49
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At least $3.99 is pretty reasonable for costumes I suppose, especially if you can mix and match the pieces
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Feb 20, 2024 13:18
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- double post
Nice Van My Man fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Feb 20, 2024 |
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Feb 20, 2024 14:05
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Shockeh posted:God I pine for the day in-game currencies are murdered. It’s such a scammy, nasty concept that’s only ignored because it’s so widespread we’ve become apathetic to it. Even the Chinese government had to back off restricting predatory online purchases when it tanked their tech sector so I've got no hope. Also that story from the Blizzard dev about how a horse cosmetic made more money than all of Star Craft 2. unattended spaghetti posted:As ever thanks for all the tech guys. Can't believe I settled on Feng and there are so many people here who play him. Basically you use this when they're ducking and punishing db1,4 but you really want to do a db1 something but don't want to go into stance. It's unsafe so not great to throw out there all the time, unless you're really sure they're going to punish the 4. Db1 has good range, damage and I'm pretty sure it crushes high attacks so it's easy to get addicted to db1,4 due to how safe it is until people start punishing it properly.
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Feb 20, 2024 14:09
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Oh yeah, we're way past climbing out of the microtransaction hole. Star Citizen was probably the final nail, normalizing grifts that lead to games like Marvel Snap selling card art for full game price. At least Tekken 8 has a sense of humor about it. They're selling a Shaheen avatar.
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Feb 20, 2024 14:47
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i don’t want rage quitters to be banned but i don’t understand how they 1) don’t take a loss for it 2) you don’t get a win for it 3) it breaks your win streak if someone rage quits on you. i probably get at least one or two rage quitters per session.
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Feb 20, 2024 15:25
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I've had maybe a handful of people ragequit on me in something like a thousand matches. And I play wildly dishonest Tekken!
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Feb 20, 2024 17:06
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The could ya know, fix the disconnect percentage feature. SF6 has figured this out with that and player block lists. Them talking about worrying about laws and such is just covering for the fact that they didn't do the basics.
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Feb 20, 2024 17:09
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I've had maybe a handful of rage quitters so it hasn't been a problem for me. I think it's a big problem for streamers because I'm seeing pro Tekken players absolutely demolishing people in like, purple and blue ranks. Those are great ranks but if I can get there they aren't pro-Tekken player ranks and their opponents are probably getting extremely frustrated at being comboed by 8 instant electrics into a rolling death cradle and being triple perfected. Not that you should disconnect then, but I feel like it will sort itself out a bit more when the pros get into their own ranks. Of course the win streak stuff is bad and they should punish it more. They could do a quitality thing and finish the round in your favor while giving the opponent an embarrassing animation. They could just reuse any of Josie's crying intros or outros.
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Feb 20, 2024 17:25
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Yeah I really hope they at least mark the accounts for repeat offenders. If SF can do it without outright bans there's no reason they can't as well. Doing literally nothing is unacceptable imho. It would be lovely burden on on the players kind of solution but at least make the disconnection rate actually work jeez. unattended spaghetti fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Feb 20, 2024 |
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Feb 20, 2024 17:26
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Fight night champion (2011) had a filter to connect only with players under a certain disconnect rate for online lol. Like cmon, Namco. If you didnt use that setting you'd run into salty dashboarders if you set it to something reasonable like 10% or under you never would. A lot of people would have crashed and or had lovely internet in that game so having a 4-7% DC didnt necessarily mean a perosn was a plugger in that game.
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Feb 20, 2024 17:37
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqMg1RuZNOs
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Feb 20, 2024 17:49
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I swear there's something about namco. They've always had dodgy netcode in all their online fighting games and I swear there's nobody working on ux at that company. Training mode is missing some good features, the whole interface flow is kinda poo poo, fonts too small, all kinds of little things. I think 8 is a step in the right direction but I would say that is only because SF6 demonstrated aptly how to provide a pleasant new player experience. And even that game is still clunky as hell in the interface details. I only mention this because I think it's a relic of fighting games being a niche genre. If I had to guess, it's just a lack of institutional knowledge and mislaid priorities from years of doing things a certain kinda way. Like to be more optimistic I think post SF6, with enough time, we will see a lot of these baseline features and ease of use tools and modern design sensibilities become more standard in games. I think the lack of consequences for disconnecting players falls under this umbrella. I wonder how much of the Tekken team are older developers. Lord knows the game is directed by an old man lol
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Feb 20, 2024 17:53
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Mode 7 posted:Tekken Talk stream mostly seemed dedicated to shilling Tekken OSTs and various Tekken branded clothes, but in terms of actual game relevant stuff so far - it confirms the microtransaction shop will be accompanied by a premium currency (surprising nobody) with skins looking to be around USD$3.99 each and that the accompanying update will focus on bug fixes and adjustments for moves that aren't functioning as intended (e.g. Victor throw escape windows) rather than balance adjustments. Like this wouldn't have really affected my decision to buy Tekken 8, I still would have done it, but it feels really scummy to put in a microtransaction premium cash shop a month after release. It only reads as the developer say "we didn't want the bad press that cash shops always get, so we are going to try to quietly sneak it in there later."
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Feb 20, 2024 17:54
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The best way to deal with plugging is just to remove the benefit of it. Mark the win, loss, and ranked points in favour of the remaining player, and leave it at that. That still penalizes people with spotty internet or legit tech problems, but at least it doesn't risk turning them into pariahs and lets them enjoy the game when they are able to. Especially with an eye on BNs technical track record; T7 became notoriously more unstable with every season. A block list that actually works for the matchmaking system would be nice though. Autsj fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Feb 20, 2024 |
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Feb 20, 2024 17:59
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