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I liked the way Ghost of Tsushima had the wind blow in the direction of your marked objective, tho I honestly don't care much about a compass either especially if I can let it fade out in dungeons or whatever even as a big fan of Morrowind style getting lost.
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Feb 20, 2024 19:27
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I bought the FF16 DLC as I enjoyed the combat in the main game. To begin the DLC you need to have completed two sidequests from the main game. To unlock those two sidequests you need to have done a bunch of other menial sidequests. I am currently collecting rolls of linen in bumfuck nowhere to start to begin unlocking the content I paid $25 for. Fucksake.
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Feb 20, 2024 19:32
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Guest writer: Yoko Taro, I see.
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Feb 20, 2024 19:33
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Necrothatcher posted:I bought the FF16 DLC as I enjoyed the combat in the main game. Let me tell you about the DLC from Dark Souls 1...
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Feb 20, 2024 19:44
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Vandar posted:Let me tell you about the DLC from Dark Souls 1... That wasn’t terrible to unlock? Kill enemy in out of the way but not super far place, kill other enemy directly next to late game critical route, return to out of the way place with drop from second enemy, go. I guess if you didn’t know what the unlock condition was at all it would be annoying but by Dark Souls standards that’s pretty normal and easy.
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Feb 20, 2024 19:47
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Like a Zachtronics game but less boring.  Vandar posted:Let me tell you about the DLC from Dark Souls 1... Interesting little dive into this very topic by one of the best Dark Souls channels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxfKMpXIW7k
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Feb 20, 2024 19:49
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credburn posted:I remember being an anal dick about games holding my hand too much. I wanted Morrowind level of assistance; a journal, a compass, a map. That's all I needed. Get the gently caress outta here with quest markers and arrows pointing at things. Yeah, I'm not 15 anymore with all the time in the world. As soon as I realize it's not something like a puzzle that'll be satisfying to solve but instead is just something I know I'll find eventually, it'll just be tedious, I look it up online.
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Feb 20, 2024 19:53
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Arivia posted:That wasn’t terrible to unlock? Kill enemy in out of the way but not super far place, kill other enemy directly next to late game critical route, return to out of the way place with drop from second enemy, go. I guess if you didn’t know what the unlock condition was at all it would be annoying but by Dark Souls standards that’s pretty normal and easy. It is obvious with documentation but it was so bad they published how to find it on their website because the store description didn't even tell you how edit: beat by a mile by John Murdoch
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Feb 20, 2024 19:53
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Vandar posted:Let me tell you about the DLC from Dark Souls 1... I also remember that being a pain in the rear end to unlock, but at least it didn't have the same sinking feeling as when I searched how to begin the FF16 DLC. To begin the DLC you need to talk to Charon about the mysterious Echoes. To get this dialogue option you need to have completed the sidequest Priceless. To unlock Priceless you need to have read a letter called Concerned about Jill To access the letter you need to have completed the Where There's a Will and the Cut from the Cloth sidequests. To unlock the Where There's a Will sidequest you need to have completed the Phoenix, Heal Thyself sidequest.  e: you also need to be at the endpoint of the game before the final mission, but at least I'd done that Necrothatcher has a new favorite as of 19:57 on Feb 20, 2024 |
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Feb 20, 2024 19:53
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Taeke posted:Yeah, I'm not 15 anymore with all the time in the world. As soon as I realize it's not something like a puzzle that'll be satisfying to solve but instead is just something I know I'll find eventually, it'll just be tedious, I look it up online. I've said it before, but the new Assassin's Creed games (and Ghost Recon Breakpoint!) do a pretty good version of the Morrowind thing, where they specify that your target is in a certain province, and in a specific part of the province. The map is super helpful in making sure you find the thing, too. If you want full unguided gameplay, play Miasmata.
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Feb 20, 2024 20:03
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People get mad at the white paint guides in the Tomb Raider: Uncharted trilogy, but I recently played through the first reboot trilogy (Legend, Anniversary, Underworld) whose visuals are modern enough to not have painfully obvious paths to follow (because it's the only thing with more than a handful of polgyons, the only path with actual lights or the only entrance modeled instead of painted on), but without guides I got temporarily stuck a few times because I wasn't sure whether I was trying to jump to the correct ledge but failed, or if I was actually trying to climb the wrong one because I missed the actual exit from a room that was some other, similarly looking ledge (or hidden in a dark corner of the room). I'll take the bird poo poo, thank you.
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Feb 20, 2024 20:08
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Not everyone can be a Valve tier level designer. It takes effort and very intentional playtesting to make players find out where to go on their own.
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Feb 20, 2024 20:12
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I mean, Valve also marked every surface that can be portal-ed by making it white. Though that did come to a neat climax in the second game as a result. Hell, FF7 even does the 'light shows where to go thing', I remember implicitly seeing a spotlight shining on an elevator in the reactor in the demo (or maybe it was a different facility or something).
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Feb 20, 2024 20:27
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I for one never got lost in FF7R, nor did I ever wonder whether something was climbable/interactive But also I would throw a tantrum if I was ever lost or otherwise frustrated for more than 5 seconds so  Something that drags down FF7R for me: there are only two types of battles: cool 30 minute boss encounter and pushover coughing baby random encounter. Also sometimes there's a boss that's not difficult so much as it has so many disables that you never get more than 3 seconds at a time with a character. I get that it wants you to switch often, but I feel like that's already accomplished by the severely limited materia slots and general braindead nature of cpu party members.
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Feb 20, 2024 20:38
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CJacobs posted:It is obvious with documentation but it was so bad they published how to find it on their website because the store description didn't even tell you how The funny part is that despite the thumbnail the video actually sorta takes the opposite stance, insomuch that in context of the DLC's original release and the playerbase at the time, it wasn't particularly obscure even if you didn't read the website. Though my main takeaway, having never touched the original version of the game, was that oh, the Hydra and Dusk were in the game since day 1. Because they feel exactly like the kind of thing that would be inserted by the DLC as part of the weird steps needed to access it. The whole thing fascinates me. In a way, entering the DLC became more obscure rather than less obscure over time, as the game got way more popular and people started doing strict blind runs.
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Feb 20, 2024 20:53
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Philippe posted:Not everyone can be a Valve tier level designer. It takes effort and very intentional playtesting to make players find out where to go on their own. Its also far easier to do clever "the light guides you where to go" stuff if your game is constrained, or in buildings and close environments. Horizon is an open world game, its not quite the same. I never found the yellow paint that bad.
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Feb 20, 2024 21:13
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I can't tell how much of the paint thing is a genuine conundrum over the balance between making things more obvious for struggling players vs. maintaining visual cohesion, with ways to do it more or less artfully. Orrr it's just the new version of "game has a user interface of any kind, wow what an overdesigned piece of a poo poo, gently caress you Ubisoft, *screenshot of Battleborn*".
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Feb 20, 2024 21:17
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At least in Horizon the yellow markers are diegetic because of her focus, which somehow makes it okay for me even though I'd be bothered by it otherwise.
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Feb 20, 2024 21:23
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Morpheus posted:I mean, Valve also marked every surface that can be portal-ed by making it white. Though that did come to a neat climax in the second game as a result. Things dragging games down: That they did that in Portal 2, making it impossible to make a Portal 3. How the gently caress do you top that as a climax?
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Feb 20, 2024 21:26
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John Murdoch posted:I can't tell how much of the paint thing is a genuine conundrum over the balance between making things more obvious for struggling players vs. maintaining visual cohesion, with ways to do it more or less artfully. Orrr it's just the new version of "game has a user interface of any kind, wow what an overdesigned piece of a poo poo, gently caress you Ubisoft, *screenshot of Battleborn*". There is a bit of the latter thing , but I think mostly it's a thing that it looks kind of bad so people notice it. The thing before that was having players in constant detective mode, which was honestly way worse but was also more visually coherent, because it meant everything looked like poo poo. It's also often connected with the character immediately giving hints thing, which for most people just spoil any puzzle before you even have a chance to do it. Not that hints are bad, just that a few newish games had them over tuned or even connected to what to a player was something unrelated. Like one of the modern Tomb Raiders which had Lara give the comment when you activated detective vision, for example if you just left a fight and need to see if you could resupply before moving on with the puzzle.
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Feb 20, 2024 21:30
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Necrothatcher posted:I also remember that being a pain in the rear end to unlock, but at least it didn't have the same sinking feeling as when I searched how to begin the FF16 DLC. Figured out a way around it. Got my girlfriend to do the sidequests in exchange for me doing the laundry.
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Feb 20, 2024 22:09
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Yellow paint is a yet another point of contention but I hate all this modern handholding game design bullshit. I know they all do it because they think I'm an idiot, that's the only reason these decisions are made, I'm sure. Weapons and armor A) Don't loving glow like they're a TF2 weapon with a killstreak effect attached to them and B)  Don't shoot beacons into the sky like they're a finale to a loving Marvel movie either! And who decided to put crosshairs on everything without my approval?  We don't just automatically obtain extra accuracy like that just because we're holding a gun! Who told them to count my bullets for me and what world are they living in where red barrels are just commonly full of explosives and more prolific than a Mcdonalds or Starbucks? Who's keeping track of my health all the time? How do they know that I only have 1276/2850 HP huh?! Are they in the Illuminati?! And create your own rant over double jumping, impossibly deep inventories and being able to carry around more than two pistols that aren't accurately being shown on your character at all times, lives systems, powerups, any form of healing that isn't via medicine or going to a hospital like sitting behind cover/ eating food/ drinking some strange liquid, upgrade menus, and leveling up.
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Feb 20, 2024 22:22
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I'm finally playing the first Metal Gear Solid game, and man, does the pacing screech to a halt right at the end when you're using a keycard to disable the nuclear launch. It starts off great, make your way up a three story tall Metal Gear to get to the keycard computers at the top level. But then, whoops, you lose the keycard and have to go all the way back down to search for it. Then all the way back up again to swipe it once. Then all the way back down to cool it off in a previous area, then back up to swipe it again. Then all the way back down and to an area further back to heat up the card and all the way back to the top again, with two long elevator rides each way.  Like, c'mon, game. This is pure busywork BS, exactly when I was amped up to get into the endgame stuff! 
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Feb 20, 2024 22:37
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RareAcumen posted:Yellow paint is a yet another point of contention but I hate all this modern handholding game design bullshit. I know they all do it because they think I'm an idiot, that's the only reason these decisions are made, I'm sure. Who is this post even against, I don't think anyone is saying in this thread that games should be perfectly realistic or have no UI? If the yellow paint doesn't go away I might be slightly annoyed at the more egregious examples but I will still play the game and get over it, it's not a big deal.
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Feb 20, 2024 22:50
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Captain Hygiene posted:I'm finally playing the first Metal Gear Solid game, and man, does the pacing screech to a halt right at the end when you're using a keycard to disable the nuclear launch. At least in your playthrough the key didn't get eaten by a rat, forcing you to hunt it down until you find its hideout and blow it up with a stinger missile.
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Feb 20, 2024 23:00
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I have never been bothered by the yellow paint. Like, it never even clicked for me that that was something people would be taking issue with. Could it be done 'better'? I guess. But it's such a complete non-issue that I would rather developers spend their extremely limited time trying to actually flatten out bugs and tightening up gameplay rather than trying to come up with a solution to appease the Twitter mobs.
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Feb 20, 2024 23:08
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Necrothatcher posted:At least in your playthrough the key didn't get eaten by a rat, forcing you to hunt it down until you find its hideout and blow it up with a stinger missile.  I missed that, although I did pick up "bomb", wonder what that was about, then forget about it until it blew up later on. I guess I thought it was a usable weapon? 
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Feb 20, 2024 23:12
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RE: Yellow Paint. I get why games do it, and I don't really blame them. I think it just looks ugly as poo poo and I'm kind of tired of every other modern game just having their maps slathered in yellow paint. But also yellow is my, personal, least favorite colour so I just don't like that. My personal preference is when games make interactable objects like flash or glow, or just highlight them in some obvious way. However, I do understand the immersion argument! Because the yellow paint feels like the developers/artists trying to do the above in an immersive way, explaining why in-universe things would be marked or highlighted for high visibility. but then that leads to really stupid situations like "Oh boy I sure am glad someone came through this ancient castle and slapped some yellow paint over all of this poo poo in advance, and these moon ruins too!" It just feels really silly, and actively can take someone out of the game because who the gently caress is dripping all this paint everywhere and why. Games have done similar poo poo in the past, it's always been a struggle to get players to notice where to go, usually they try to keep it on theme. Fatal Frame II, for example, will highlight some things with red butterflies or ghosts. That kind of poo poo feels way more organic to that game, than if they just had some mad painter slap yellow paint all over the joint to tell the player what poo poo needs to be interacted with. Basically the yellow paint just kind of draws attention to its self in a way more purely mechanical ways of highlighting don't.
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Feb 21, 2024 01:20
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If streamers have revealed anything its that Gamers are loving stupid and unobservant at best.
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Feb 21, 2024 03:12
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ZeusCannon posted:If streamers have revealed anything its that Gamers are loving stupid and unobservant at best. Remembering the time Sony used DarkSydePhil as an example for how they design games to guide players to the correct place https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSB29qx6sWw&t=2280s
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Feb 21, 2024 03:16
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You may as well argue why there are a set of perfectly-spaced handholds for people to use to get out of holes or onto platforms or whatever.
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Feb 21, 2024 03:55
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ZeusCannon posted:If streamers have revealed anything its that Gamers are loving stupid and unobservant at best. Don't forget reviewers, the infamous Nier review where the guy didn't go to the big red X
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Feb 21, 2024 07:38
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orcane posted:I'll take the bird poo poo, thank you. New thread title
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Feb 21, 2024 09:58
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I mean the context of this being the latest FF7 remake explains it a bit- I've only played some of the Midgard one, but there's not really platforming or much climbing in the game, so if the plot suddenly needs you to climb a ledge they may have to force that a little. They maybe could have been slightly cleverer about it, but I'm not sure of the plot context so other cues might not have been an option.
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Feb 21, 2024 10:14
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The obvious solution to the yellow paint thing is to not fill your game with terrible glorified QTE traversal sections. Of course then lovely third person AAA games would need to figure out something else to fill out 70% of their runtime. Was their anyone who wanted more climbing sections in an FF7 remake?
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Feb 21, 2024 10:27
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I'm always in favor of flatter world's in games. Mountains, hills, slopes, inclines, toss em all out I say.
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Feb 21, 2024 10:32
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CJacobs posted:
this was true long before L4D as well. Human brain is a moth, reacting to brightness and motion before all other things. But this is a concept which can be very hard to achieve when going for open world, maybe with complete dynamic natural lighting you then need to go full scale on visual guidance (landmarks, colors, objects etc.) for guidance. painting poo poo white was not the worst concept people came up with tbh, but as with all things it's a matter of how its done and often enough its done terrible (also in the other way, that its using colors/shaders which drown in the environment... I think DL2 did that sometimes? Its more seldom)
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Feb 21, 2024 11:36
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ZeusCannon posted:If streamers have revealed anything its that Gamers are loving stupid and unobservant at best. God yeah, I've seen an example of that just recently from a guy playing monster hunter. Basically he was doing a hunt on a special monster with a unique mechanic where you need to do elemental damage to it to have a chance, but it can hit you with a debuff called dragonblight that nullifies elemental damage you do, so you need to get rid of dragonblight quickly. So he starts the hunt, gets a tutorial popup explaining that very thing and reiterating the part with the dragonblight , reads it out to his audience, immediately gets hit with dragonblight and then proceeds to do nothing about it while beating his head against the fight for hours. The game even repeatedly reminded him audibly that he's actively suffering from dragonblight. The average gamer is dumb as poo poo, and half of them are worse than that.
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Feb 21, 2024 13:04
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Perestroika posted:God yeah, I've seen an example of that just recently from a guy playing monster hunter. Basically he was doing a hunt on a special monster with a unique mechanic where you need to do elemental damage to it to have a chance, but it can hit you with a debuff called dragonblight that nullifies elemental damage you do, so you need to get rid of dragonblight quickly. So he starts the hunt, gets a tutorial popup explaining that very thing and reiterating the part with the dragonblight , reads it out to his audience, immediately gets hit with dragonblight and then proceeds to do nothing about it while beating his head against the fight for hours. The game even repeatedly reminded him audibly that he's actively suffering from dragonblight. but they'll skip every tutorial because "i've played games before"
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Feb 21, 2024 13:05
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Len posted:but they'll skip every tutorial because "i've played games before" The worst thing is joking about other people not reading the tutorials over the tutorials and then getting stuck because they themselves didn't read them.
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Feb 21, 2024 13:08
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