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Considering how many times Sawyer has said how the design of Pillars isn't about his ideal game, but delivering on the expectations of the nostalgia driven kickstarter backers I bet even he considers the combat of D:OS 2 better. Pillars is still great, but D:OS2/BG3 just manage to do some things better. In particular Pillars still has probably the best world/universe/cosmology/etc ever created for a game (only Disco Elysium seems comparable).
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Feb 22, 2024 11:34
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Yeah but have you considered you could be cool for the rest of your life instead?
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Feb 22, 2024 11:45
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Croccers posted:Yeah but have you considered you could be cool for the rest of your life instead?  you either die a cool dude or live long enough to become a herb
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Feb 22, 2024 12:20
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FuzzySlippers posted:Pillars is still great, but D:OS2/BG3 just manage to do some things better. In particular Pillars still has probably the best world/universe/cosmology/etc ever created for a game (only Disco Elysium seems comparable). TBF overly verbose world building is all PoE1 did with its writing.  PoE2 was the one I actually enjoyed the writing of.Also come on, Glorantha is right there. Though it is kinda cheating since that was made by an anthropologist shaman instead of a nerd who read a lot of fantastical literature. Edit - that said I am really looking forward to the Pillars TT RPG ZearothK fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Feb 22, 2024 |
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Feb 22, 2024 12:47
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POE1 was sincerely one of the most boring games I've ever played in my life. Minutes within zoning into every new area you were instantly accosted by another Lord Infodump that vomited out 7 paragraphs of text before you even had a chance to absorb the surroundings. If there was an interesting story to be found, then it was presented in the worst way possible.
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Feb 22, 2024 12:53
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ZearothK posted:TBF overly verbose world building is all PoE1 did with its writing. I didn't mind PoE1's writing once I realised that those gold nameplate NPCs were all kickstarter fanfic which actually had nothing to do with the world/plot and I shouldn't read them. These really game me a bad impression when starting out though. ZearothK posted:Also come on, Glorantha is right there. Though it is kinda cheating since that was made by an anthropologist shaman instead of a nerd who read a lot of fantastical literature. Glorantha spawned the Broos, which instantly makes it a top contender.
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Feb 22, 2024 12:55
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exquisite tea posted:POE1 was sincerely one of the most boring games I've ever played in my life. Minutes within zoning into every new area you were instantly accosted by another Lord Infodump that vomited out 7 paragraphs of text before you even had a chance to absorb the surroundings. If there was an interesting story to be found, then it was presented in the worst way possible. Same, PoE1 I absolutely couldn't get into. Sure, it's angling specifically for a particular brand of nostalgia, but if anything it was just too familiar. PoE2 kinda slaps, though, even though I've still not finished it. But then again I've got that same problem with BG3, I absolutely adored the game but I'm not sure I'll ever finish it cause it's just too drat big.
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Feb 22, 2024 13:02
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See it would be easy to say they were just mining for nostalgia and many CRPGs have notoriously slow starts but I was replaying a bit of BG1&2 awhile back and those games really don't waste your time with pointless exposition at all. Almost to their own detriment, since there is so much mindless combat.
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Feb 22, 2024 13:12
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Games opening with slow rear end expositions that throw proper nouns at you for 10/60/300 minutes before giving a single reason for giving a poo poo about it is probably my biggest pet peeve. It's ridiculous how terrible most developers are at making introductory levels for their games. You should first show me the coolest or most interesting thing you've got, and then start throwing exposition at me after giving me a reason to be interested in it in the first place.
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Feb 22, 2024 13:21
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and if you have lots of VO/exposition, deliver it using David Warner
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Feb 22, 2024 13:25
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All games should begin with gameplay. The biggest failing of any RPG is beginning with story at all, instead you should start in (or at the beginning of) a short and well-paced tutorial dungeon that caps off with an easy boss-fight that shows off the game's unique strengths. Dragon's Dogma is maybe the best example of this. The worst thing any RPG can do is begin with a long story sequence where it's all just cutscenes and plot for the first hour. Games are meant to be played.
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Feb 22, 2024 13:36
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Yeah, even on tabletop RPGs I like to open campaigns and one shots with a combat or another action scene instead of exposition. En media res is the way.
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Feb 22, 2024 13:39
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Not just an RPG issue either. I thought I'd jump back into the recent Tomb Raider games recently and Shadow is such a slog because it persistently interrupts any sense of flow either with a cutscene or a bit where the game slows down so Lara can tell her mate what just happened in the previous cutscene.
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Feb 22, 2024 13:40
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SoR Blaze posted:All games should begin with gameplay. The biggest failing of any RPG is beginning with story at all, instead you should start in (or at the beginning of) a short and well-paced tutorial dungeon that caps off with an easy boss-fight that shows off the game's unique strengths. Dragon's Dogma is maybe the best example of this. Yeah, now I think about it, Dragon's Dogma really nails it's intro. I'm also really fond of Metal Gear Rising opening with an encounter of 3 dudes, to tell you that you can mash X and Y to attack, and then giving you a huge robot boss fight right after.
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Feb 22, 2024 13:57
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Jack Trades posted:Yeah, now I think about it, Dragon's Dogma really nails it's intro. Absolutely. I don't think any game ever embedded itself as deeply in my brain within the first hour as MG:R did. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlE83G8ODWw Just loving look at this. You go and wonder how they can possibly top this, and then they just keep topping it all game long. 
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Feb 22, 2024 14:07
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No game intro will ever compare to Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force as far as I'm concerned. The game is a FPS and starts you directly in gameplay mode inside a Borg ship. You get the basic stuff quickly demonstrated, and the mission culminates with you loving up and detonating a critical part of the ship. Fade to white, then the frame of the holodeck appear and Tuvok gives you a bollocking as your team mates all leave the room pissed off at you. Then Tuvok is done, and leaves the room leaving you alone. Which is when the camera pans away from your lonely character before fading to black and launching the Voyager TV show intro because you were actually playing the preamble from the episode.
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Feb 22, 2024 14:09
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former Apple Arcade exclusive, coming to Steam. Loved What the Golf? so I'm excited for this one https://store.steampowered.com/app/2727650/WHAT_THE_CAR/
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Feb 22, 2024 15:58
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The initial lore dumps in PoE 1 were egregious but I wonder if that was due to the game incubating in early access for so long. It was weird, broke the ‘show, don’t tell’ rule in a bunch of places. Like lots of npcs telling the player that their special ghost powers are going to drive them insane, but it had literally no effect on gameplay outside of dialogue. Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Feb 22, 2024 |
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Feb 22, 2024 16:22
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some series called Doom is on sale; might be nice if you like Blake Stone clones idk
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Feb 22, 2024 16:23
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Hwurmp posted:some series called Doom is on sale; might be nice if you like Blake Stone clones idk Never heard of it. Another game trying to ape Rise of the Triad?
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Feb 22, 2024 16:25
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looks more like Corridor 7
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Feb 22, 2024 16:26
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Ah yes, the Maze War-likes.
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Feb 22, 2024 16:26
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Barry Convex posted:former Apple Arcade exclusive, coming to Steam. Loved What the Golf? so I'm excited for this one Loved GOLF BAT was pretty dull for a 2022 VR release.
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Feb 22, 2024 16:28
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Everything after Catacomb 3-D was a mistake.
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Feb 22, 2024 16:43
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Fruits of the sea posted:The initial lore dumps in PoE 1 were egregious but I wonder if that was due to the game incubating in early access for so long. Wasn’t that all Original the Characters made by kickstarter backers?
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Feb 22, 2024 16:49
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ymgve posted:Wasn’t that all Original the Characters made by kickstarter backers? Those sucked so bad.
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Feb 22, 2024 17:00
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I'm just in disbelief that they're wasting time and effort remastering/remaking Demon Souls, Final Fantasy or Tomb Raider yet keep ignoring Ken's Labyrinth.
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Feb 22, 2024 17:01
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ymgve posted:Wasn’t that all Original the Characters made by kickstarter backers? Those guys are bad (but easy to ignore) but even the main game dialog is absolutely jam packed with letting you ask every npc "Tell me about this place", which prompts that NPC to recite a paragraph about the setting with the delivery and tone of a history textbook regardless of whether they're a guard or a noble or the proprietor of a brothel or anything in between. It's very difficult to roleplay as anyone other than a dryly inquisitive scholar.
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Feb 22, 2024 17:09
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Fruits of the sea posted:The initial lore dumps in PoE 1 were egregious but I wonder if that was due to the game incubating in early access for so long.
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Feb 22, 2024 17:11
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Also one of your main companions (Durance) was basically the equivalent of a mentally ill homeless guy endlessly ranting on a street corner. I'm sure what he was saying had deep metaphysical implications but I just clicked through that poo poo, ain't nobody got time for that
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Feb 22, 2024 17:12
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The backer stories are a rare instance where a developer would have been celebrated for reneging on their Kickstarter promises.
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Feb 22, 2024 17:24
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exquisite tea posted:The backer stories are a rare instance where a developer would have been celebrated for reneging on their Kickstarter promises. Or they could have all been parked in a corner of the map called Backersburg so that backers could have gone to read their own fanfic while everyone sane wouldn't have accidentally thought all that poo poo was relevant to the plot and struggled to make any sense out of it.
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Feb 22, 2024 17:31
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An almost impossible to reach Backersburg would have been the funniest solution I supported PoE on Kickstarter and have absolutely no regrets, but I'm glad I didn't back it at a higher tier so my fan fic isn't in the game, even if it doesn't matter since no one would have read it anyway
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Feb 22, 2024 17:36
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If you aspired to make it bad enough, it could have been shared in memes for all eternity.
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Feb 22, 2024 17:41
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Phlegmish posted:Also one of your main companions (Durance) was basically the equivalent of a mentally ill homeless guy endlessly ranting on a street corner. I'm sure what he was saying had deep metaphysical implications but I just clicked through that poo poo, ain't nobody got time for that Durance is a religious zealot who gets so utterly owned in the third act it's worth listening to his rants.
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Feb 22, 2024 17:46
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I hate reading that's why I love CRPGs
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Feb 22, 2024 17:49
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Squiggle posted:I hate reading that's why I love CRPGs Agreed. Or at least Planescape: Torment Avellone > Pillars of Eternity Avellone
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Feb 22, 2024 17:56
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ymgve posted:Wasn’t that all Original the Characters made by kickstarter backers? Sort of? As far as I could tell, the player’s motivation was that they were super special because they had accidentally been cursed with the ability to talk to spirits (including those backer npcs). Which, for some reason, meant chasing the guy who had caused the accident (who doesn’t even know the player exists) because maybe he can cure it somehow? The justification for the presence of the backer npcs is that you can see spirits. I didn’t want to get rid of my cool mind powers, so it was basically just following the path the game presented because reasons. There is an overarching plot about metaphysics but it kinda suffers in comparison to stuff like ‘last man standing but you are all children of the god of murder’ or trying to stop tentacle monsters from mind controlling the world Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Feb 22, 2024 |
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Feb 22, 2024 18:11
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Secrets of Grindea will hit 1.0 on February 29th.
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Feb 22, 2024 18:12
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FishMcCool posted:Or they could have all been parked in a corner of the map called Backersburg so that backers could have gone to read their own fanfic while everyone sane wouldn't have accidentally thought all that poo poo was relevant to the plot and struggled to make any sense out of it. Hollow Knight did this, though the backer characters don't really have exposition lines or anything
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