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Lord Koth posted:That's a bizarre change, from a lore perspective at least. Like, if I know such-and-such creature well enough to place my attacks towards more vulnerable areas (what FE presumably stands for), whether I'm seeing it in a forest or a plains or whatever really shouldn't matter. Anyways, the thing with all these conditional abilities is that you really just need to talk with your DM for recommendations, or, lacking that, go with the list of super common enemy types and hope for the best. There's definitely the chance of the ability feeling useless, but types like Undead and Constructs are almost always useful at some point, for instance. Oh sorry, I should specify. In 5E Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer are two different features that don't intersect with each other. Favored enemy makes it easier to track and identify creatures of your favored type regardless of where you find them. In 5E it doesn't actually have any effect in combat, which seems lame when in Pathfinder it gives you a pretty big bonus against your favorite prey. Natural Explorer gives a bunch of effects like "can't get lost," "Difficult terrain doesn't slow you down," and "always stays alert" as long as you're in your favorite terrain type. Naturally, the DMs who want to have you get lost slowed down, ambushed, or otherwise inconvenienced by travel will ignore that Ranger feature. And the DMs who just want you to get to the next plot point will ignore it by skipping the journey or giving you a portal or what have you.
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Feb 20, 2024 02:51
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Wrath is not subtle about the fact that you're fighting mostly demons, which is honestly kind of charming. If you do take like trolls as your favorite enemy in this game, you only have yourself to blame. On the easier difficulties, it's not a problem to take a weak or near useless background/trait/skill for flavor and RP purposes though. So go nuts choosing Cheliaxian Diabloist or trolls as your FE if it makes sense for your character.
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Feb 20, 2024 03:08
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My very first character in Wrath was a tiefling Espionage Expert, and I got so unnerved by Hurlun's questioning that I rerolled within the first 2 minutes.
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Feb 20, 2024 05:08
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glwgameplayer posted:5E Favored Enemy
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Feb 20, 2024 07:10
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Cythereal posted:
At least it's a background. There are entire subclasses that are borderline useless like Defender of the True World, who has bonuses against fey, which would be very useful in Kingmaker but not here.
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Feb 20, 2024 13:10
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At least in tabletop the DM can work the specific enemies into the story or just tell the player that they likely won't be getting a ton of use out of their anti-specific_enemy ability and they need to be prepared for that if they still wish to play it.
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Feb 20, 2024 13:56
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Same reason is why I hate that you must choose hyper-specific weapon specialization for one of the 200 nonsensical weapon types, in a game where all the important weapons are fixed but you have no way of knowing what they are before you come across them.
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Feb 20, 2024 14:03
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Szarrukin posted:At least it's a background. There are entire subclasses that are borderline useless like Defender of the True World, who has bonuses against fey, which would be very useful in Kingmaker but not here. Of course, that class was super useful in Kingmaker, while an anti-demon class was much less useful. But you had no idea that the fey would be your main enemy in Kingmaker, which made it that much worse.
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Feb 20, 2024 15:22
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steinrokkan posted:Same reason is why I hate that you must choose hyper-specific weapon specialization for one of the 200 nonsensical weapon types, in a game where all the important weapons are fixed but you have no way of knowing what they are before you come across them. I usually find it a safe bet in D&D-likes to always specialize in longswords; everyone loves a longsword. One weapon I didn't expect to get a lot of love in Wrath was the glaive- seriously, there's a lot of good glaives in this game! As a longtime spear/polearm enjoyer, I got all  over the love Wrath showed them, or at least that one small subset of them (seriously, they really should have done what that one mod does and consolidated weapons into groups).
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Feb 20, 2024 18:33
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CommissarMega posted:(seriously, they really should have done what that one mod does and consolidated weapons into groups). I like the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay take, myself: you have Hand Weapons, Great Weapons, and Polearms. Period (unless you're using advanced optional rules). Although I was delighted to make my Aeon playthrough of Wrath a monk. My favorite fantasy weapon is the quarterstaff, and wouldn't you know it there's a monk kit called Staff Master.
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Feb 20, 2024 18:39
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Glaives are another demon lords' favorite weapon, so there are a lot of them in Wrath. Similar to scythes.
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Feb 20, 2024 19:04
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Unfortunately, only Seelah and another Companion we'll get in Act 2 are any decent with Scythes and Glaives. And that character is built for Armor tanking, when Dex tanking is superior, so he's mostly a healbot.
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Feb 20, 2024 20:31
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Again, if you go with the lower difficulties, you can make armor tanks work just fine, you don't need to min-max and can go with what is cool instead.
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Feb 20, 2024 20:40
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Remember, this is a Story difficulty playthrough to focus on the, well, story. I'll try to give useful tips about building characters and show off different systems and mechanics, but on Story difficulty you can pretty much attack-move to victory. If you want a super in-depth discussion of builds and optimization, this is not the LP for you.
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Feb 20, 2024 20:44
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To give an example of just how much story difficulty makes life easier (purely from Cyth's screenshots, mind) - in tabletop (and normal, I guess?), small earth elemental got 13 HP. Here? 3. I knew first level elven wizards with more hp total!
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Feb 20, 2024 21:10
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Story difficulty will live up to its name. Absolutely nothing will challenge you at that difficulty. Which is ok; it's called story for a reason.
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Feb 20, 2024 21:55
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Tales from the Fifth Crusade: An Unlikely Vixen Neathholm was one of the strangest sights Seelah had ever seen in all her years. The village sat on the shore of an immense lake, perhaps even a sea, that stretched far into the distance. Seelah had always known that Kenabres drew its water supply from seemingly inexhaustible wells - one of the key reasons why the city had been settled at all, in addition to its strategic location - and clearly this was the source, a vast underground realm that two hours ago she wouldn't have put any bets on existing. Nor was the village lightless, all manner of fungi and lichen glowed with the colors of the rainbow along the shoreline and further inland within the cavern. There was an entire world down here, deep beneath the feet of the largely ignorant crusaders above. Had she arrived under better circumstances, Seelah could have spent hours just talking to people and learning about this place. As it was, Seelah settled onto the bedroll she'd been provided with a thump. The neathers - Seelah chose to use the name they had mentioned for themselves - had made one of their huts available to the surface women while they rested. Camellia, the half-elf woman, was somehow managing to sleep or do a good imitation of it without even removing her mail, and slept on her side with one hand resting on the hilt of her rapier. Anevia and Yua, however, were obviously finding it harder. The former was lying down on her bedroll, but her eyes were open as she stared at the ceiling. The latter had settled into a sitting position leaning against her backpack that had survived the fall, while she worked on her long, fluffy tail with a heavy brush she'd procured from her pack. Seelah still wasn't sure what to make of the woman. Troubadours were a familiar enough sight in Kenabres, but it had been years since a kitsune had last passed through the city. Openly, at any rate. And then there had been Lariel's sword, and the halo of heavenly fire Yua could seemingly summon on command. Veteran instinct told Seelah that there was more to the story than Yua had let on, but Yua herself had never seemed anything less than honest. There was no mistaking the 'traditional kitsune folk music' she'd performed for the neathers! A battered, stringed instrument of a make unfamiliar to Seelah rested at the kitsune's side, resembling a lute but distinctly not. Something from Tian Xia, perhaps. "How are you doing, sister?" Seelah ventured while she began removing her armor. "Heck of a first day in Kenabres, huh?" "Quite." Yua chuckled politely as she continued to brush her tail. "Well, I did come to Kenabres to enlist in the Crusade and join the fight against the Abyss. I suppose I can't blame the gods for delivering exactly what I asked for." "They're funny like that." Anevia agreed without looking up. "Gotta say, though, I'm curious what brings a kitsune all the way up here, and to the Crusade of all things." Anevia turned her head and shared a silent look with Seelah. Seelah nodded. "I've been in Avistan for a few years now." Yua set her brush down, glancing from Anevia to Seelah. Nobody's fool, this. "Long story short, I'm not welcome back home anymore. Exile was the nicer thing my lord could have done. Back in Tian Xia, at least, we're cultured and respect proper musical traditions, so I made a decent living going from place to place. Wound up in this part of the world eventually. After a while, though, I guess you'd say I got bored of the drifter life. I'd heard about the Worldwound from a mercenary outfit I used to be a part of. It sounded like something better than just making coins to make ends meet, if that makes any sense." "It makes a lot of sense." Seelah gave the kitsune a smile from ear to ear. "We get a lot of that kind. Don't worry about your past here. All anyone in Kenabres will care about is how well you fight demons." "I suppose." Yua agreed. "But I'd be lying if I told you I'm not thinking about running south as fast as my legs can carry me. Hearing about the Worldwound and the Crusade is one thing. Watching a locust demon the size of a building cleave a dragon's head off is something else." Anevia snorted from her bedroll. "No one's going to chase after you if that's what you want, Yua. Hell, you probably wouldn't be alone." "The Light of Heaven chose you, though." Seelah tilted her head at the bard. "Not the paladin of Iomedae, not the woman who's served the Eagle's Watch for years. You. I think that would be a waste if you left." "Which is why I'm only thinking about it." Yua replied with a heavy sigh. "I've seen battles before. I know music, and my way around a crossbow. But that vision the sword gave me... I've never seen anything like it. I'd like to not face Desna one day and say I didn't follow my dreams." The bard pulled her instrument into her lap and strummed one of the strings idly. "You may all be uncultured swine with no appreciation for proper kitsune singing," Yua chuckled, "But you might appreciate this tune I picked up a couple of years ago. Normally we'd all be drinking when we sang, but I guess we'll make do." "I fight my enemies, because that's what I'm paid to do! I never hesitate to act, or even think it through! I'd retire any day, but I spend too much on beer and whores! I ain't gonna fight no more! Glory, glory, what a hell of a way to die! Glory, glory, I just hope I can get by! Glory, glory, I just wish they'd pay me more! I guess I'll fight once more!" Yua's voice was rich and clear as she sang in concert with her strumming fingers, and to Seelah's surprise, Anevia joined in as the song continued. "The people that we're fighting are Cheilaxians through and through! We ask for reinforcements but they said 'That would be you!' We'll wait for them to eat themselves, that's what we're praying for! I ain't gonna fight no more! Glory, glory, what a hell of a way to die! Glory, glory, I just hope I can get by! Glory, glory, I just wish they'd pay me more! I guess I'll fight once more!" Camellia groaned in her half-sleep and rolled over, putting her hands over her ears, but Seelah joined in, picking up the rhythm. "My bowstave is broken and my crossbow's winch is jammed! The other day I saw them turn my best friend into ham! For dinner I shall drink this bottle that I found on the floor! I might not fight once more! Glory, glory, what a hell of a way to die! Glory, glory, I just hope I can get by! Glory, glory, I just wish they'd pay me more! I guess I'll fight once more! My family is buried and my homeland is ablaze! I do not see the irony as one more town I raze! Every job I swear it's my last big score! I just wanna fight once more! Glory, glory, what a hell of a way to die! Glory, glory, I am blessed to be alive! Glory, glory, let's all fight another war! Let's all just fight once more! The patron didn't tell us what we would be fighting for! All I know for certain is I will not die from 'poor!' In other words I'm just another loving dog of war! I'll gladly fight once more! Glory, glory, what a hell of a way to die! Glory, glory, I am blessed to be alive! Glory, glory, let's all fight another war! Let's all just fight once more!" On the song went, the unfamiliar sound of uplander singing and laughter echoing into the gloom beneath Kenabres. Credit to the Black Pants Legion on youtube for this adaptation of the Battle Hymn of the Republic that I in turn adapted for this.
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Feb 21, 2024 00:41
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Hell yeah, the BPL are good people. Still think the 82nd Airborne's take on that particular tune is my favorite though 
Bloody Pom fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Feb 21, 2024 |
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Feb 21, 2024 01:30
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That song matches and helps my mood tonight. Thx for sharing it!
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Feb 21, 2024 08:01
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A Maze of Twisty Passages Welcome to the Shield Maze, the first proper dungeon of Wrath of the Righteous! If you recall Wenduag describing this place as a pitch-black labyrinth of traps and monsters, you're probably wondering what's going on. Deskari isn't the only demon lord involved in the Worldwound, we have a whole stable of villains ahead of us and Baphomet is one of the more prominent.  The Shield Maze is full of Baphomet's cultists.  Who come in a wide variety of classes.  Meet the iconic blasting spell of Dungeons and Dragons! Had Katarina won the vote for the PC, this would have been her primary start of game spell.  As the thread has noted, glaives are a very common weapon in Wrath. They're the iconic weapon of Baphomet and his cult like how the scythe is iconic of Deskari and his cult.  Yua picks up an armor upgrade, at least until her dexterity surpasses the need for such trivialities as armor.  Meet one of the classic features of DnD, locked treasure chests! There's no actual consequence to failing to pick a lock, you can always try again. Or if you don't have anyone with the Trickery skill you can simply bash it open, at the cost of getting less rewards inside.  In a very nice quality of life feature, looting bodies is area effect in Wrath. Encumbrance is a thing in this game, so I generally don't loot weapons and armor (which tend to be heavy and sell for surprisingly little) unless they're at least masterwork quality so they sell for 100g or more. Scrolls, like you can see the geeked geek's corpse has, also tend to not sell for much but also weigh almost nothing.  Here's the other dungeon job for thief types that everyone's expecting, traps! Wrath plays with the usual depiction, though, in that the the area of the trap and the mechanism to disarm it are quite distinct, sometimes even hiding behind walls or in other rooms. Just look for the dotted red line from the trap area to the mechanism. Again, the Trickery skill is what's used here, and the Perception skill to spot them.   I'd been uneasy up to this point. This library gave me a downright sinking feeling. The cultists had been here for a long time, right under the feet of the crusaders in Kenabres. Be sure to loot every book you find and actually click on them for more details in your inventory. There's a reason for this.  Namely, some of them grant perks to the PC for reading them! Yua doesn't actually have proficiency with glaives, so she'd suffer a penalty for using one, but just for reading this book she'll enjoy a +1 attack and damage bonus with glaives for the rest of the game! Naturally I have no intention whatsoever of ever actually using this, but hey.  Well, this isn't good. Killing these two corrupted mongrels triggers a conversation with Lann.   "Did you know him?" "Yeah. He's not from our tribe, but we're both hunters, so we'd cross paths from time to time in the cave passages. We'd share news and leave supplies for each other. Then he just disappeared." (Lann frowns.) "He used to talk about wanting to try his luck in the Maze. I thought he was long dead. If only he had been." "Why would mongrels attack us? Aren't we all on the same side?" "Something's wrong with them, look. Their bodies... It's like something's eating them from the inside out. Sure, maybe these guys just ate something weird or were having an off day... but I think something drove them out of their minds."Welcome to CORRUPTION! Don't worry, this isn't Warcraft, we will get an actual direct explanation for what's going on soon enough.  "Seems like this Shield Maze of yours is crawling with cultists. How did they get here?" "I have no idea. This is my first time here too. Maybe they fell down here the same way you did?" (Lann shrugs awkwardly and looks away.) "Wenduag comes here all the time. I'd ask her about it if she were here. Come to think of it, where is she?" "Let's go. This place might be even more dangerous than we thought." "And there I was hoping that we'd be the meanest things in here." (Lann's laughter sounds strained.) "These mongrels... And cultists... Now that I did not expect. I need to find out what's going on here."In case you're wondering about Lann's history with Wenduag, there's a fair few indications that they might have had a bit of a thing going between them - there's at least one ending to the game, in fact, where they get married. But that depends on a lot of events playing out in particular ways.  Wrath isn't as heavy on the gore as some games, but the text makes it abundantly clear what demons and their cultists enjoy doing.  Here's the in-game map, by the way. It's generally effective and helpful for most areas, and also clarifies exactly what kind of terrain a map counts as in case you have a character with feats or perks that depend on terrain types.  An example of a trap having a trigger in another room.  A cultist drops these. Lockpicks are consumable items that grant a bonus to picking locks.  The actual mandatory path through the Shield Maze is pretty short, but there's a lot of optional areas to explore for loot and murder like this flooded area.  Yeah, we realized we were in a branch of Kenabres' sewer system when we saw the damaged aqueduct. If I ever wind up in charge of a city's protection, I'm sending adventurers down into the sewers on a regular basis. I'll seed the drat thing with giant rats if I have to to get them to search every nook and cranny. Enemies will regularly mix class levels and feature many of the feats and perks available to PCs.  Thank Desna for dumb cult leaders. Of all the demon lords and cults we faced in the Worldwound, Baphomet and his lackies consistently impressed me the least. Our first piece of legit magic armor! Sadly, it's pretty bad. Medium armor is drat near unheard of for PC use, who generally want to go either light or none, or the heaviest they can get. And while undead do appear on and off in this game, we won't be seeing more than a few for some time.  And then there's this jerk. Every chapter of Wrath features at least one optional encounter designed as an extra-hard boss, and this is the prologue's. Now, I'm on Story difficulty so it's still a pushover to anyone who understands the most basic mechanics of the game, but on any higher difficulty it's a serious fight. In particular, take note of its immunity to cold. Sucks to be a kineticist PC who took ice as their starting element!  (not gonna lie, if LPer's choice had won for the PC's class I probably would have made a kineticist, they're super complicated but I've been thinking about giving one a try)  And his glorious career in service to Lord Baphomet ended with a bard lodging a crossbow bolt in his lung and he choked to death on his own blood. I wonder sometimes just what some of these people were thinking when a kitsune of all things appeared and killed them. Don't get me started on the smell. This is the key you need to proceed.  Whether you picked Lann or Wenduag, this composite longbow is a very important upgrade over the regular longbows they start with. You see, normally bows and crossbows only derive their attack bonus from your dexterity, they receive no damage bonus from any stat. Composite longbows, however, apply your strength bonus to their damage while still using dexterity to calculate the attack bonus. Lann and Wenduag, who go heavy on both stats, are ideal composite longbow wielders and it's a significant boost to their power.  Seelah also picks up her first armor upgrade, a suit of half-plate. This is what is generally depicted as almain rivet armor, a combination of breastplate, tassets, and spaulders developed in early modern Germany to be rapidly and relatively inexpensively mass produced for infantry and cavalry. If you've seen Peter Jackson's Return of the King, this is the style of armor that Gondor's soldiers wore, and any Warhammer Fantasy fans familiar with how the Empire's armored soldiers who aren't in full harness typically wear.  We also meet our first demons, sort of! Tieflings are products of mortal (typically but not always human) and demon interbreeding who are more human than demon. Cambions are the other end, mixes of human and demon blood who are more demon than human and feature most qualities of true demons. Note the immunity to electricity. I cannot stress enough, do not play a kineticist starting with lightning if you value your sanity in this game. There will eventually be ways to get around this sort of thing, but not for some time yet.  It's easy to miss this abbatoir area, and even then it's easy to never get close enough to this spot to realize that these four colored lights are buttons. Now, if there are any clues to this beyond brute force trial and error I've missed them, but the code is yellow, blue, red, yellow.  So remember Hosilla's letter mentioning a paladin sword?   "Well, of course this rusted piece of metal must be that very same sword!" (Camellia rolls her eyes.) "I think you merely wish that this were the illustrious sword of legend." "You don't get it — I've seen this sword a hundred times, in paintings and in the hands of the Yaniel statue. I've even thought of going to the Estrod museum to see the real thing in person... How did it get here?" "What's so special about it?"A common staple of Dungeons and Dragons is what's generally known as a holy avenger sword. A holy sword that banishes evil and cleaves through fiends and evil-doers and undead - even Warcraft gets in on it with the sword Ashbringer.  "You're empathizing with an object? Extraordinary. Are all paladins so tender-hearted and sensitive?" "Sensitive in a way, yes. We're highly attuned to evil and everything wrought by demons. Radiance was in evil hands, and, as a paladin, I can tell you they did nothing good to it." "Who is Yaniel?"Most DnD video games feature a holy avenger, though what kind of sword it is varies. Neverwinter Nights 2 had a longsword. Baldur's Gate 2 had a greatsword, and then its expansion added a bastard sword as a second example.  "That's how she's been remembered: as an incredible warrior who seemed to blaze with righteous fury. In all the images of her, she looks capable of driving all the demons back to the {g|Abyss}Abyss{/g} single-handedly! But then something happened between her and her commanders. Maybe they envied her, maybe there was more to it than that, I don't know. But anyway, she went into the Worldwound without her fellow soldiers... and she didn't just survive the mission, she even brought back crusaders she rescued in there! Can you imagine? She died as she lived — with pride. She was one of the people defending Drezen to the very end — that's where she perished." (Seelah frowns.) "Don't take this the wrong way, but I really hope that she died quickly — a hero's death. Because if she didn't... that means she was taken prisoner and had to endure unspeakable horrors. I wouldn't wish that on anyone." "How could a priceless relic end up down here?"If the PC has at least one level in paladin, finding Radiance plays out a little differently and interrupts Camellia's cynicism. Also take note of Seelah mentioning Drezen, we'll see this name mentioned again in the future. Drezen was a major city that fell to the Worldwound's expansion, and retaking it has been the dream of the Crusades ever since.  (Seelah laughs.) "I have this weird feeling, like I'm rescuing a fellow warrior from a dungeon. We can't just abandon it, even if it's no use to us. It's no use to anyone down here. But what if it could be repaired?"Hint, hint.  Radiance is never leaving Seelah's hand. Right now, it's not very impressive, just a masterwork longsword made of cold iron, which lets it bypass certain forms of damage reduction. But as Seelah alluded to, there will be ways to improve Radiance over the course of the game (or corrupt it if you're evil). Also, if the PC has at least one level of paladin and does something special when finding it, Radiance comes upgraded from the start as a +1 sword. Oh, and fun detail: if your PC worships Torag, the smith god, they can take one look at Radiance and shut up Cammy by pronouncing it sacrilege to leave such a marvelously crafted weapon behind.  Moving on, these dretches are the first fully fledged (however minor) demons you face in the game! In addition to the electricity immunity that the cambions had, they have DR 5, reducing the damage they take from physical attacks by 5 unless a weapon is good-aligned or made of cold iron (like, say, Radiance). Seelah chops one to kibble with no trouble and Lann and Yua turn the other into a pincushion.  And opening the door here with Hosilla's key brings us to the mandatory boss encounter of the Shield Maze.   Which begins with a rather long, unskippable cutscene.   "But I, your master Savamelekh, can make you better, stronger. I can satisfy your hunger, starvelings of the dark... Submit to me!" "No! We are the descendants of crusaders! Trusting a demon would be a betrayal of their memory!"So yeah, these are the mongrel kids who ran off whom Lann wanted to rescue.  "Beasts... monsters in human guise... Reveal your true nature! This is the sweet, wholesome flesh of a righteous aasimar! Eat, 'underground crusaders!' Eat the flesh of the crusader from above! Find your true strength!"If you'd sided with Wenduag, for the record, she'd be coming clean over the course of the Shield Maze. She was, of course, lying to everyone about the Shield Maze, and she'd accompanied Lann to find the angel's sword explicitly to kill him if he found the sword. Wenduag served Savamelekh, but is all too happy to betray him since she's decided you're stronger.  (Your companions writhe in agony: one clutches at their head, another doubles over. You feel saliva pool in your mouth. The metallic tang awakens hunger in you. The hunger turns to rage. This winged filth dares to try to bind you to its will? It dares to tempt you with the sweet scent of meat, untainted by corruption! The wretch must die! Die!)If you'd refused to reveal the Light of Heaven to Chief Sull, this would have started earlier. There is something deeply wrong with Yua.  (By sheer force of will, you master your rage, and, almost in response, warmth suffuses you from within. Warmth and joy from a simple realization: you can win. You can save these people. The power of Heaven bolsters and guides you. Its light breaks free and, enveloping the mongrels, grants them the gift of blissful oblivion. Lowering your gaze, you see a scarlet stain on your chest — the wound has reopened, and instead of blood pouring forth, you see only radiant light!)Angel and Demon are the two mythic paths unlocked by default in Wrath. The decisions here still don't decide which path you lock in, just how these particular events play out.   As I noted in a previous update, one of the central themes of Wrath of the Righteous is the question: are you simply who and what biology has made you, or is there more to your identity than that?   (Hosilla points at you.) "She's already wounded! Wenduag — kill!"There is something deeply, profoundly wrong with Yua, but the power of Heaven has intertwined with her through the sword of a dead angel. However this power came to be in Yua, she can exert at least some measure of control over it.  Thematically, the conflict within Yua mirrors the conflict between Lann and Wenduag. Beyond the implications for mongrel society that I discussed earlier, Savamelekh and Wenduag argue that their path is more true, more natural to who and what the mongrels are. Lann, on the other hand, explicitly sets out to define himself through training, discipline, and self-improvement. Wenduag embraces what she feels is natural, Lann embraces the idea that he can make himself better.  Savamelekh has escaped to fight another day, leaving Hosilla as the short-lived (on Story difficulty) boss, with Wenduag supporting her. It's a brief and uninteresting fight on Story.  "Demons! Protect your mistress!"About that...  These were what Chaotic Evil mages summoned for their familiars in the classic Baldur's Gate series. A threat, they are not.  (Lann turns to her, his face twisted in fury — the lizard half is snarling, the eye narrowed.) "What else are we supposed to do with you? You're not just a traitor, you're a monster! The young ones believed you, and you lured them to a demon and watched them eat human flesh!" "I was trying to make them strong! What have you done for them? What were you doing while I was looking for ways to bring strength to our tribe? You're useless, Lann!" "I led by example! I trained. I tried to become stronger so I could go to the surface and maybe do something worthwhile with my stupidly short life! And I will do it, if Yua will have me. I might be the one to bring our whole tribe to the surface! But you... Why would you want any power that turns you into a monster? These young guys and girls, they trusted you, and they were turned into mindless animals, ready to eat corpses at a demon's command!" "I went through the same ritual as them, and I didn't become an animal. I conquered my anger, the anger that has been building and building in every one of us for decades! Unlike you, I have no intention of just lying down and politely accepting death! I will rise above all this, while you'll still be stuck with your pride, chewing on rats!" (Inspect the wound on your chest)It's a classic clash of character motivations. Wenduag believes she's stronger for what she's endured, and believes she's stronger than what the ritual tried to do. Lann believes that he can take pride in his training and discipline and pass that on to others. Wenduag feels that Lann is boasts and empty pride that don't accomplish anything. Lann feels that Wenduag has made herself no better than the adversaries they're supposed to oppose.  (Sighing loudly, Lann whispers) "It's gone... It was just there, and now... it's gone. It's got to be some kind of demonic trickery. You need to have a cleric look at that." (Wenduag smirks and holds Lann in her searing, scornful gaze.) "If she has been marked by the Abyss, do you think some nobody priests will be able to help? No, the demons have branded this uplander, and judging by the smell of her blood pouring from her chest, the demons will be able to find her wherever she goes. And they'll find you too, Lann." (The huntress permits herself an indolent, gloating smile. Her sharp fangs glint menacingly in the gloom.) "So you've been serving Savamelekh this whole time?"This exchange neatly sums up why I personally cannot stand Wenduag. I deal with this kind of "Better things aren't possible, idiot, at least I accept that" cynical pessimism all the drat time in real life. But the only way to convince Wenduag otherwise involves stuffing her like a sausage casing first.  (Lann looks at Wenduag in disgust.) "I thought you were better than that. I thought you were proud of your heritage, but you're willing to crawl on your belly before anyone who's even a little bit stronger than you. You're not a mongrel. You're a cave slug — you have no understanding of the meaning of family or tribe." (Wenduag laughs.) "Oh, so now you think you know everything about me? You're one of the best hunters in the tribe, it benefited me to ingratiate myself with you, so I acted in a way that pleased you." "Why didn't you try to stop us from going inside the Maze? You knew we might uncover your secret." "Savamelekh is always in need of new servants. You'd make as good a servant as anyone else. And then..." (Wenduag bursts into laughter.) "Once you'd gone missing in the Maze, not even the redoubtable Lann would've dared look for you." "But then why did you come with me to look for the sword?" "So I could kill you quietly if you found it, and stop you taking it to the village, you idiot! I would have told everyone that you got caught in a cave-in. But then the uplanders showed up and I had to change my plans." "Join me, Wenduag." (Wenduag leaps back with surprising speed) "Do you think I like looking at you, uplander? I'll just wait till you're asleep and then I'll slit your throat. No matter where you are."So yeah, we haven't seen the last of Wenduag. Funny how her 'I follow the strongest' ethos doesn't apply when you just beat her face in.   (Chief Sull appears flanked by mongrels. The journey has taken its toll on him — his breath is labored and the sweat is dripping from his bloated face.) "What... what'sish?"We will see Wenduag again in the future, suffice to say.   (Horgus's lip curls in distaste and he tries to keep his distance from the unconscious mongrels.) "You need to look after the young mongrels." "I don't know what they'll be like when they come to, but... look after them, Chief. They went through something horrific today. Not everybody is capable of enduring something like that. It will change them forever." "As long as they can hunt. The resht can wait. Uplander, and you, Lann, you saved them. Only the godsh can salvage their souls. But we are a tribe, we will think of shomething. And when they're shtronger, they can go up to the shurface. The time hash come." "It's time to get out of here." This is why I never acted on my instinct to run from Kenabres. I'd been in the city for a day and decided the fate of the mongrel people on top of everything else. To walk away now would have felt wrong. Call it the sunk cost fallacy if you want. (Sull heaves a sigh.) "Hmph... You never were one of ush. You alwaysh looked up. You think I don't see these thingsh. Our life ish not for you. You musht go. But where? Where ish the way out?" "Beats me, but these beasts got down here somehow." (Lann searches Hosilla's body and shows you some papers and a key.) "I don't know what these documents are, but I'm sure this key will come in handy." (Anevia's eyes quickly skim over the letter and she passes it to you.) "Those cheeky sons of...! This is all the information on the cultists in the city — their meeting places, passwords, their secret hideouts. I think we should show this to whoever's in charge of Kenabres right now. As soon as we get back to the surface, we'll find out what's what!Stupid villains who write everything down, aren't they lovely?  Hosilla also drops a very nice weapon. Just don't use it against undead, negative energy heals them.  Next time, surely Yua has earned a break. Surely. The Crimson Path (this update) Cultist 17 Corrupted Mongrel 8 Cambion 4 Dretch 2 Quasit 2 Monitor Lizard 2 Earth Elemental 1 Water Elemental 1 Cythereal fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Feb 22, 2024 |
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Feb 22, 2024 04:19
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So Savamelekh here is a vrolikai or death demon, they are the strongest normal demons after balors, and a Pathfinder original. In D&D there has long been a type of demon called a nabassu, decently powerful demons that devoured other creatures souls and became stronger from it, after eating enough they would return to the Abyss and establish their own little domain as very few other demons could compete with them from the buff they get from fully maturing after eating all those souls. Pathfinder mostly kept them the same, but turned the mature nabassu into the vrolikai.
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Feb 22, 2024 05:13
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The real issue with the Wenduag reveal at the end is that she's painted in such a bad light that practically no one should reasonably pick her over Lann. Supporters can go on and on about how she's a more interesting character overall or they don't like Lann's (eventual) personality or whatever, but right here, right now in making this choice someone would have to pick the person who admitted to all that and just tried to shoot your face in over someone who's been fairly reasonable and loyal up to this point - or, if you picked her over Lann initially, casually switches sides at the drop of a hat and very much admits she'll do it again if such circumstances arise. You can try and meta justify it all you want, but actually trying to RP justify it for almost anyone other than the "for the shits and giggles" kind of person is an enormous stretch.Cythereal posted:
The clue is in fact the room you're standing in right here: Cythereal posted:
Specifically, on the western part of the northern wall there's a set of four paintings next to each other which are, you guessed it, yellow, blue, red and yellow in sequence. There's nothing like it anywhere else in the dungeon, so if you happen to notice it they will stand out, but yeah it's not exactly the best clue ever for multiple reasons. Cythereal posted:
You mentioned the mechanic when talking about dretches later on, but the real nasty thing about this isn't the cold immunity (which basically only affects one single element pick for Kineticist, and it is NOT a commonly chosen one), it's the DR. Specifically, it's DR 5/-, which means NOTHING* in terms of physical attacks bypasses that - all physical damage just gets reduced by 5. Given you're ~level 3-4 at this point, you kind of need to know what you're doing to tangle with this since otherwise you'll basically just be doing scratch damage against something with a fairly significant HP pool. Particularly given the thing also has Cleave with rather high attack and damage output. *: There's one specific class exception to DR/- not being able to be bypassed, but it's not relevant to elementals anyways. Namely, when Paladins are Smiting they just flat out ignore any DR on the target, irrespective of any needed conditions (or lack thereof). Smite's only against evil targets though, and elementals are almost to a rule neutral.
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Feb 22, 2024 05:22
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Lord Koth posted:The real issue with the Wenduag reveal at the end is that she's painted in such a bad light that practically no one should reasonably pick her over Lann. Supporters can go on and on about how she's a more interesting character overall or they don't like Lann's (eventual) personality or whatever, but right here, right now in making this choice someone would have to pick the person who admitted to all that and just tried to shoot your face in over someone who's been fairly reasonable and loyal up to this point - or, if you picked her over Lann initially, casually switches sides at the drop of a hat and very much admits she'll do it again if such circumstances arise. You can try and meta justify it all you want, but actually trying to RP justify it for almost anyone other than the "for the shits and giggles" kind of person is an enormous stretch. patient zero of 'they wrote this sequence back when Lann was The Good One and Wendaug was The Evil One' look dammit they put this whole intricate cutscene and reveal together, they are not rewriting it around a concerningly order-obsessed wannabe hero and a survival of the fittest enthusiast, just assume they've been taken over by early bioware characters for this bit
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Feb 22, 2024 06:02
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Path(ways) Of The Righteous So, the Shield Maze. First thing first about the Shield Maze, this is the first big game-related diversion from the AP, in that the AP didn't have the Shield Maze. Instead, we got the Mongrel Lair™.  The OG AP OpFor HQ. I wouldn't worry too much about the location markers unless you're planning to play the AP for yourself. This was where the rebel tribe of mongrelmen (as opposed to mere mongrlmen cultists) set up their own cave home The first 'real' challenge of the cave rebels would have been Wenduag at H4, but since she's met alone to fight against 4-6 (most probably optimized) PCs and their NPC backup, she's less of an actual miniboss and more of a speedbump. She doesn't retreat when heavily wounded, which means that she's even less of a challenge if your PCs stealthed themselves past the guards who might have reinforced her or summoned reinforcements for her. Honestly, apart from a giant amoeba at H5, the mongrelmen portion of the caves isn't really all that hard, and it's easy to see why Wrath went around raising the general CR of the dungeon with demons and elementals and all sorts.  A Baphomet cultist doing the fanservice pose in heeled boots  Pathfinder tries to be as diverse and representative as possible, but it does stumble a few times (at least in 1st Edition) and you'd best believe I will have some things to say about that representation when it comes.The first actual challenge of the dungeon comes with two cultists of Baphomet at H10. 2nd-level characters with a level in cleric and fighter each, their real threat is in the scrolls of Cause Fear that they have. If they get the initiative and the PCs don't roll well on their WIll saves, that's up to two PCs out of the fight, and since they also target Paladins or any obviously Good fighters first, that's a good portion of the tankline potentially gone. Time to re-roll, or explore the RP opportunities of playing 'counts-as-tiefling' mongrelmen through Lann or Dyra (IIRC there weren't any actual unique racial rules for PC mongrelmen, which sucks). And that doesn't take into account any mongrelman reinforcements they have! IMO this is an AP encounter that doesn't really need DM intervention to make more challenging, even for optimized characters and counting the backup from Anevia and Aravashnial, since most builds don't really come into their own at low levels. Even the AP writers knew this, with one cultist running for it if the other dies to make things easier for your group.  Meet original flavour Hosilla! Thanks to the action economy, less difficult than her flunkies. Honestly, Hosilla is a bit of a breather compared to the cultists. Unlike Wrath, in the AP her only backup is a tiefling warrior with only 10 HP. She's not in the caves of her own volition; a traitor amongst the demon's forces ordered her into the caverns as a purge was coming. Ando she ventured into the caves, met up with a group of mongrel traitors whom she used as occasional spies, sacrificed their leader and his lover, then took over. It's quite the backstory for someone who is basically the first boss of the AP, and not a very hard one at that unless the DM has her reinforce the cultists or vice versa- but considering Hosilla is found at location H9 on the map and the cultists at H10, that's not very likely. The final challenge of the cave dungeon are a pair of dretches at H15 (the sole actual maze portion of the dungeon). By this time, the PCs ought to have at least a level under their belt and +1 weapons (the morningstar from Chief Sull, and Hosilla's +1 glaive). If need be, this might be a good place for AP Lann to do a noble sacrifice, or to replace a PC who's done the same since the dretches do have the same immunities and resistances they have in Wrath. Hopefully the DM's remembered to give you guys some cold iron weapons, or allowed to to rest a bit after Hosilla and Co. That said, once you're done with this bit, your characters are done, and free to go to the next big digression between this AP and Wrath itself.
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Feb 22, 2024 07:50
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:patient zero of 'they wrote this sequence back when Lann was The Good One and Wendaug was The Evil One' Speaking as a Wenduag fan myself, I kind of disagree with this. Owlcat did a lot of rewrites between the beta and the final product, they could have redone this scene as well. I think they realized most people were going to side with the hot monstergirl over the guy on the cover of a forbidden love romance novel, and this was going to be their way of encouraging people to take Lann. Yeah, Wenduag was pretty open about being a "I AM IN CONDITION YELLOW" survival of the fittest character from the outset, but considering how many people were willing and able to overlook Camellia, it's hard not to think that some anvils might need dropping. Mind you, people would still rationalize things away regardless of how Owlcat wanted to present things. Me personally, I did so for my Good characters by reasoning that Wenduag would need a much closer eye on her than Lann did, and that Lann would also be a better influence on the mongrels than Wendy would have been if you left them to her and took Lann along. Finally, there is the fact that Sarenrae (who is my favourite PF deity and the one I always pick) would be disappointed if I didn't at least try to redeem one hardcase For me, the real "uh, let's skip over this bit quickly' moment was at the end, when your only dialogue options were either to threaten Lann to go away or to attack him.
CommissarMega fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Feb 22, 2024 |
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Feb 22, 2024 07:58
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Wendaug just has an unpleasant personality long term. I have recruited her for much the same reasons CM describes plus my being a fan of the voice actress and… long run, I have ended up having as much of a problem with her as Cythreal does for much the same reasons. Yeah, you can romance her, but by the time it’s possible, why would you want to? [sigh] I’d have enjoyed a mongrel player character too. And a rat folk, cat folk, or goblin one. Maybe I should look for appropriate mods… 
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Feb 22, 2024 12:30
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We didn't even left our first dungeon and already we can see problems with Owlcat game design - you have multiple choices when it comes to classes, skills and equipment but some of them are clearly "wrong" and Owlcat keeps them being wrong by updates like another nerf to armor. (this isn't going to be discussion about meta, just me complaining over Owlcat idea of what constitutes a fun gameplay.)Cythereal posted:there's at least one ending to the game, in fact, where they get married. Is it Trickster ending? Because it sounds like Trickster ending.
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Feb 22, 2024 12:51
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Szarrukin posted:Is it Trickster ending? Because it sounds like Trickster ending. Nope!
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Feb 22, 2024 13:03
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The key bit for me about recruiting Wenduag here is that she is wholly unrepentant. She's reveling in what she's done. She needs some regret somewhere for a good character to latch onto. In any other game she'd be dead right here and forgotten as a starter villain.
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Feb 22, 2024 15:18
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CommissarMega posted:Speaking as a Wenduag fan myself, I kind of disagree with this. Owlcat did a lot of rewrites between the beta and the final product, they could have redone this scene as well. I think they realized most people were going to side with the hot monstergirl over the guy on the cover of a forbidden love romance novel, and this was going to be their way of encouraging people to take Lann. Yeah, Wenduag was pretty open about being a "I AM IN CONDITION YELLOW" survival of the fittest character from the outset, but considering how many people were willing and able to overlook Camellia, it's hard not to think that some anvils might need dropping. honestly I come at it from the other side, I like Lann as a character (not dipping into his romance probably helps) and the Lann from before and after this would still be revolted, but also, to his horror, would kind of get it. sometimes you make a couple of sacrifices in the name of future advantage, for the good of the group. he'd still fight her here, but there'd be a lot less "HOW COULD YOU DO SUCH A THING" and a lot more "why would you think this was worth doing?" meanwhile our pal Wendy is just comedically, unapologetically, full-bore I Am The Bad Guy, which I'm assured is not really her deal if you put up with her later
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Feb 22, 2024 16:05
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How do the game justify not shanking her right there, if she backstab you just to crawl back after defeating her side, much less accepting her aid?
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Feb 22, 2024 16:14
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Gun Jam posted:How do the game justify not shanking her right there, if she backstab you just to crawl back after defeating her side, much less accepting her aid? You can attack her at the end if you want. No matter what you do she runs off and escapes. Nothing you say in the confrontation with her actually makes any difference.
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Feb 22, 2024 16:16
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"I today went out and hired me a base fellow." - Entry in the journal of Francis Walsingham, spymaster to Queen Elizabeth I. Wenduag is the kind of person Walsingham likely had in mind, and the kind of character that I almost always feel comfortable recruiting into an Evil party: a violent underling who is psychopathic enough to enjoy dirty work, but not so far gone as to prioritize that enjoyment over following my orders; an opportunist, but not a schemer; someone who is content to be the second mate of the crew as long as she gets to lead the boarding parties; "I can fix her but she works just fine as she is". See also: Jack from ME2, Kaliyo from SWTOR, etc. Also, given her BDSM submissive deal, I am actually reassured by her openly stated willingness to switch sides, and see it as a hosed-up but honest way to signal consent and boundaries. If she went all "your choices are my choices, your will is my will", it would have been a far bigger red flag for me.
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Feb 22, 2024 16:34
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SettingSun posted:The key bit for me about recruiting Wenduag here is that she is wholly unrepentant. She's reveling in what she's done. She needs some regret somewhere for a good character to latch onto. In any other game she'd be dead right here and forgotten as a starter villain. Why would she be repentant? She's right! Doing the demon cannibal murder orgy made her stronger in a super hostile environment where all signs point to the tribes barely skating along. If anything, she's being benevolent to share the path to strength with potential rivals. If they can't hack it, well, she gave them the shot. But, of course, a good person looks at the above and thinks "Yeah... That's not gonna fly."
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Feb 22, 2024 17:10
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hmm, man-flesh... A little nibble wouldn't hurt, would it!?
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Feb 22, 2024 17:35
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I read somewhere that if your character was Urgathoan, then they'll remember a recipe for roasted aasimar and its associated marinade 
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Feb 22, 2024 18:20
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Cythereal posted:In all the images of her, she looks capable of driving all the demons back to the {g|Abyss}Abyss{/g} single-handedly! Cythereal posted:
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Feb 22, 2024 18:47
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Nostalgamus posted:Small formatting error here. I'll have to check on this when I get home, thanks for pointing this out. CommissarMega posted:I read somewhere that if your character was Urgathoan, then they'll remember a recipe for roasted aasimar and its associated marinade Yup, saw that in the game's script file I transcribe most of the dialogue from. There's quite a bit of reactivity to your choice of deity, but we won't see Yua's devotion to Desna for a bit still. Interestingly, every mythic path seems to have one particular deity associated with them as a patron where you'll get a lot of reactivity if you worship that deity on that particular path. I'll talk about Azata in more detail once we actually meet that path, but of the other five early game paths at the start: Angel is associated with Iomedae, Demon is associated with Rovagug, Aeon is associated with Irori, Lich is associated with Uragothoa, and Trickster is associated with Cayden Cailean.
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Feb 22, 2024 19:12
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CommissarMega posted:I read somewhere that if your character was Urgathoan, then they'll remember a recipe for roasted aasimar and its associated marinade Wait, wouldn’t that be an aasimarinade? 
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Feb 22, 2024 20:21
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Cythereal posted:I'll talk about Azata in more detail once we actually meet that path, but of the other five early game paths at the start: Angel is associated with Iomedae, Demon is associated with Rovagug, Aeon is associated with Irori, Lich is associated with Uragothoa, and Trickster is associated with Cayden Cailean. As cool as that is, it kind of sucks that they tied the mythic paths to specific gods instead of alignments- where's the Sarenrae love, Owlcat?  Quackles posted:Wait, wouldn’t that be an aasimarinade? 
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Feb 22, 2024 20:43
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