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God that whole thing was like...why the gently caress is this on the wrestling show?
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Feb 22, 2024 20:26
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The first Diss the Diva is still one of the most insane things ever to air on television, "cum-slurping gutter slut" and all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxTILt0NUws
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Feb 22, 2024 20:30
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fun for all ages
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Feb 22, 2024 20:46
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davidbix posted:The first Diss the Diva is still one of the most insane things ever to air on television, "cum-slurping gutter slut" and all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxTILt0NUws Based on what we know about Vince personally writing humiliating promos I'm going to assume that entire thing was personally handwritten by him.
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Feb 22, 2024 20:53
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I hate that I sat through all the Diva Searches, and can remember 90% of them. So many hours of my life. And the live sex, the multiple times Torrie was forced to gently caress someone, all the cucking, all the stripping and B&P 'matches'. Alexa Bliss falling over in coffee so it looked like she poo poo herself. Vince shouting at Trish to crawl around like a dog. It was all there broadcast on international TV the whole time (and undoubtedly before and since), I'm angry at myself for sitting through it all, and I'm angry at myself for being surprised when this story broke.
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Feb 22, 2024 20:54
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imagine still watching the wwe
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Feb 22, 2024 20:56
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ARMBAR A COP posted:imagine still watching the wwe You have to, in order to support all the good people that still work there
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Feb 22, 2024 21:04
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Sydney Bottocks posted:You have to, in order to support all the good people that still work there I'm sure there were nice concentration camp guards that just felt awful about the whole thing.
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Feb 22, 2024 21:08
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HonorableTB posted:Based on what we know about Vince personally writing humiliating promos I'm going to assume that entire thing was personally handwritten by him.
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Feb 22, 2024 21:43
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John Cena posted:WHO TOOK A poo poo IN THE BIDET?
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Feb 22, 2024 21:45
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davidbix posted:In this case I don't think he did. Yikesaroo
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Feb 22, 2024 21:52
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I must have stopped watching right before Diva Search because I dont remember it at all. The most notorious poo poo I recall is Val Venis under threat of getting his dick chopped off complete with racist stereotypes (there was an Asian American valet he was with?), Torrie in a beauty and the beast storyline with Kane where I think she turned on him? And sadly, I remember Katie Vick. Do you know the WWE sold a whole cheerleader outfit signed by HHH, panties included? They did, its on Wrestlecrap, look it up. Oh, and Hand. I remember Hand. Which is somehow better then everything above, body horror and all. Regarding Cena the Mortal Kombat 1 trailer for the Peacemaker character dropped this morning so that MIGHT add to Cenas flailing since theres a lot of overlap in wrestling fans and fighting game fans. I have no idea if WB or the MK guys particularly give a poo poo about WWEs troubles but I do find it funny the character debut was paired with an alternate universe female version of Johnny Cage as an assist. Janet Cage is in every way the same character and is designed as an action film star the way Johnny is.
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Feb 22, 2024 22:00
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Honestly, I think the big picture issue about John Cena on Total Divas is... why did WWE sign off on it? I profoundly doubt anything happened on those shows that the office wasn't happy with, and Cena coming across like an utter weirdo who imposes oddly controlling household rules in his domestic sphere doesn't feel like an image WWE top brass would want out there. Unless, that is, WWE top brass had (and all signs are still have) a completely warped idea of what normal, relatable behaviour is like. I've long felt that WWE under Vince was somewhat better at booking heels than faces, and that was because Vince is a fundamentally bad person to whom a genuinely ethical and good person might as well be an alien - he just doesn't understand a mindset that involves empathy, compassion, treating others with respect. So when the reality show depicts allegedly a top face behaving like a weird robot, Vince sees nothing wrong with it because for all he knows that's how good people behave. And he's surrounded himself with people like that for decades..
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Feb 22, 2024 22:07
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MassRafTer posted:I did a new episode of the Monumental Podcast going over how with every WWE abuse scandal it is seemingly an open secret in the company and thus it is suspect that people doubt Vince McMahon was openly bragging about his actions when that is very much in line with what he does. Hey just want to say I appreciated listening to this and having everything just coherently laid out. It's a shame I can't beam it directly into someone's ears because sadly the people that most need to hear this aren't going to listen to a 60 minute podcast about the subject.
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Feb 22, 2024 22:33
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Dimebags Brain posted:Hey just want to say I appreciated listening to this and having everything just coherently laid out. It's a shame I can't beam it directly into someone's ears because sadly the people that most need to hear this aren't going to listen to a 60 minute podcast about the subject. It should be required listening to the three people that still watch WWE in earnest here. But also yes, should be beamed into people's minds. Always appreciate your work MRT
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Feb 22, 2024 22:35
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quote:It is quite likely that some of our faves are implicated
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Feb 22, 2024 22:40
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Majinfoose posted:It should be required listening to the three people that still watch WWE in earnest here. But also yes, should be beamed into people's minds. Always appreciate your work MRT Where's that one goon who said it was "ridiculous" that Vince would brag about his crimes, or that he was just bragging about fantasies he had, sure would like to read their piping hot takes right about now
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Feb 22, 2024 22:41
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schweens posted:A friend of mine has worked as a cam op on many reality shows. It's not his personal experience but he was told that John Cena wouldn't let anyone use the bathrooms in his house when filming total divas. Crew members had to drive to the nearest gas station for every piss There is so much bullshit in this thread that's so much worse than this but this pisses me off to an irrational level. What the ever-loving gently caress is wrong with you Cena? Christ. just...can you consider trying to function like an actual human being you loving automaton.
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Feb 22, 2024 22:45
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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:Oh, and Hand. I remember Hand. Which is somehow better then everything above, body horror and all. whoever wrote that storyline should be investigated
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Feb 23, 2024 02:40
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sithael posted:whoever wrote that storyline should be investigated If the writer of the Mae young/mark Henry angle should be investigated, basically every attitude era writer should be investigated Which is correct, basically every attitude era writer should be investigated
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Feb 23, 2024 03:00
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Looking through the old Diva Search recaps I also came across an angle that I have no memory of. (I almost never watched WWE TV from 2001-2008, only watching heralded matches or clips of promos that popped up.) Dave seems very sure in the January 9th Observer that Melina suing Batista for "sexual harassment" is Vince playing out a power trip over Rita Chatterton twenty years later.quote:Then came the Melina claim of sexual harassment. The word "rape" was never used, but clearly implied. The funny thing was how she said that kids shouldn't be watching this and in the stands you see tons of kids. Dave is sexual predator. Rita, I mean Melina, did a really good job and got a lot of heat with a silly storyline. Melina's delivery was eerily like Martha Hart in her media appearances during the period she was suing WWE. Some of it can't be coincidence since Hart talked about in the end how two women from Calgary (her main attorney was a woman from Calgary) stood up to the WWE. Speaking of that, the USA Network had announced a movie last season with that storyline, about how two women from Calgary stood up to the WWE. Funny how after USA announced the movie for the fall 2004 season that it disappeared. Anyway, this storyline is taken from Vince's own life, and a situation that garnered publicity in 1992 (although the alleged tryst took place circa 1986) involving a former referee named Rita Chatterton. If you want to know the Vince McMahon version of that story, so far it seems to be just about the same thing. Not having watched in this period and not having seen Batista in this period in ages he seems to be styled a little more like Vince would be in this press conference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkI_hvdkVSk https://www.wwe.com/shows/smackdown/sdspecial/loosearticles/melinamakesstatement It's clear that this is an angle about sexual assault and not harassment and UPN just wouldn't let them say sexual assault or rape. Made even worse by Melina's later revelations that she actually was raped and was also suicidal.
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Feb 23, 2024 05:34
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MassRafTer posted:Looking through the old Diva Search recaps I also came across an angle that I have no memory of. (I almost never watched WWE TV from 2001-2008, only watching heralded matches or clips of promos that popped up.) Dave seems very sure in the January 9th Observer that Melina suing Batista for "sexual harassment" is Vince playing out a power trip over Rita Chatterton twenty years later.  what in the gently caress -- that statement as a wrestling storyline bit is so fuckin sickman how much longer do you think that page stays up on wwe's site? its crazy its still up now.
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Feb 23, 2024 06:00
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post hole digger posted:
I'm trying to reconcile the following responses that immediately came to mind for me: 1) they don't care 2) Brock Lesnar is out of the next video game. He wasn't actually named in the lawsuit, just the WSJ article (though it's obviously him) SO THERE IS VERY OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING TO THE ALLEGATIONS - how do none of the sponsors or networks care about this? It's so weird that there is no possibility of blowback on NBC, FOX, or any of the sponsors for supporting this awful poo poo. Not even starting on WWE's increased government business. It's like we all live in a parallel universe sleep with the vicious fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Feb 23, 2024 |
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Feb 23, 2024 06:27
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The statement from Netflix where they basically just said "Eh, Vince is gone so it's fine" is all it'll ever amount to.
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Feb 23, 2024 06:35
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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:Oh, and Hand. I remember Hand. Which is somehow better then everything above, body horror and all. Hand got a redemption arc.
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Feb 23, 2024 07:44
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Sydney Bottocks posted:You have to, in order to support all the good people that still work there Ah yes, good people like....
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Feb 23, 2024 13:39
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Just to chime in on the Pat Patterson stuff, did he probably ever sexually assault a man in the current use of the term? I'm going to say 'probably', because he was gay in an era when men were using truck stops to get it on anonymously, and fleeing from the cops after some long-hauler who got felt up made a call. The state of the business during his career was still in that ultra-carny form and that sort of travelling circus usually draws people with sordid backgrounds looking to start over; it certainly wasn't a clean business at any level. I just don't know that many gay dudes born before 1970 who didn't engage at some point in life in some sort of sexual impropriety while living a frustrated life in the closet, even if it's something like catching a glimpse of a naked man in the shower; and living out of the closet often meant you were trying to denote yourself as available for all these closeted men out there and willing to risk the repercussions that came for it (fewer SA lawsuits, more slurs and fistfights). What I'm getting at this is I personally can sleep at night while using a double standard to judge the life of a gay dude in the 60s or even the 80s, I understand if you can't because it sucks but that's a product of the wider intolerance more than anything because obviously it's less widespread now than it was when just being gay and sexually active was as illegal as any other sex crime in many places. (I don't believe it's any excuse for pedo poo poo, obviously.) Vince OTOH did all of the stuff mentioned in the suit in the wake of the Weinstein thing, and likewise after Steve Wynn resigned from his casino business for similarly using the company's cash to give payments to an employee he was allegedly imposing for sexual favors. There is no excuse other than I guess he thought "unlike those guys I'll get away with it." Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Feb 23, 2024 |
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Feb 23, 2024 13:45
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SirPhoebos posted:Ah yes, good people like.... We joke, but there are at least a couple of goons who unironically used "I'm supporting the good people" as their justification for why they won't stop watching WWE.
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Feb 23, 2024 14:05
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Watching wwe but shaking my head the whole time, so people know I disapprove
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Feb 23, 2024 14:10
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the sex ghost posted:Watching wwe but shaking my head the whole time, so people know I disapprove
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Feb 23, 2024 14:37
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jesus WEP posted:ah youre one of their cameramen? TSG knew.
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Feb 23, 2024 15:19
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Do not besmirch the good name of Hand Henry-Young. That angle doesnt deserve to be lumped in with the poo poo like Katie Vick or Stephanie-was-a-chew-toy-for-business-partners. Hand was peak Attitude Era wacky car crash bullshit and I am forever here for it. The only bad thing about the angle was, unfortunately, Hand following in the shoes of other troubled child stars by undergoing extreme plastic surgery, leaving only the thumb, before trying to distance himself by changing his legal name to Ryback.
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Feb 23, 2024 15:24
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Craptacular! posted:Just to chime in on the Pat Patterson stuff, did he probably ever sexually assault a man in the current use of the term? I'm going to say 'probably', because he was gay in an era when men were using truck stops to get it on anonymously, and fleeing from the cops after some long-hauler who got felt up made a call. The state of the business during his career was still in that ultra-carny form and that sort of travelling circus usually draws people with sordid backgrounds looking to start over; it certainly wasn't a clean business at any level. I just don't know that many gay dudes born before 1970 who didn't engage at some point in life in some sort of sexual impropriety while living a frustrated life in the closet, even if it's something like catching a glimpse of a naked man in the shower; and living out of the closet often meant you were trying to denote yourself as available for all these closeted men out there and willing to risk the repercussions that came for it (fewer SA lawsuits, more slurs and fistfights). Literally nobody was talking about clumsy anonymous public restroom hookups. We weren't even talking about a witness telling the INS in the mid-1960s that Patterson was regularly patronizing street hustlers who were "young boys," which I don't think can be taken at face value for a number of different reasons. We're talking about specific allegations about Patterson from the late 1970s through his 1992 WWF resignation, almost all of which involved him being in a position of power over his accusers. Tom Cole was an underage ring boy who everyone agrees was credible about Mel Phillips and Terry Garvin's respective sexual abuse and sexual harassment of him. He also accused Patterson of groping him and otherwise sexually harassing him by staring at his crotch and licking his lips. He never recanted that allegation. And everything he alleged? He also swore to it under oath. Jim Stuart, Vince's limo driver, told both federal investigators and lawyers for Phil Mushnick/the NY Post that when Vince McMahon fired Mel Phillips in 1988 for being a pedophile, Patterson was the one who pushed Vince to rehire him as long as he agreed to "stay away from kids." (He didn't, and he wasn't shy about it.) Never mind that Terry Garvin was Patterson's childhood friend and Pat knew what he was about, because... Barry Orton accused Patterson and Garvin of groping his genitals during a 1978 car ride in west Texas where he was seated between them, going after him so hard that they tore his pants down the middle and he eventually fled the car in a panic. Ted DiBiase corroborated the story to Dave Meltzer, though he classified it as a "rib." Orton swore to this under oath, as he also did with his claims about Patterson waiting outside the showers while a WWF VP/booker/road agent so he could stare at the wrestlers' genitals. "Karate Kid" Chris Dube accused Patterson of repeatedly making unwanted passes at him while serving as his superior. The "midget wrestler" troupe stopped being booked by the WWF shortly after he and Lord Littlebrook complained about it. Tom Hankins accused Patterson of offering a quid pro quo at a bar to get work as a TV job guy in 1985. Numerous witnesses confirmed that it happened, although some claimed that it was just Patterson joking around. But: 1. It was phrased much more like an actual pass than what you'd imagine a "joke" would be. 2. Hankins was no longer allowed to visit the locker room after rejecting the advance. 3. That doesn't really matter anyway. Lots of people don't do their research and/or get deep into denial that Patterson could have ever done anything wrong and try to justify it by pointing to the fact that yes, he had two accusers who, as best as we can tell, made up their allegations (one admitted it, the other was a longtime con man with a history of blackmailing closeted gay men) and they happened to be the most prominent ones against him. Or try to minimize it by saying the stories were true, but his intent was a "rib" or a "joke." But that doesn't loving matter. Even if that was his intent and "hey, I was just joking!" is classic predator poo poo regardless it doesn't change how it impacted other people. And though there are no stories out there that I've ever heard about him being outright predatory after he returned later in 1992, he clearly didn't learn his lesson about what kind of "jokes" were sexual harassment. From Bob Holly's book: "Pat wasnt a bad guy or anything and we always got on fine, but I probably didnt do myself any favors with him later in my career. I bent to pick something up and he happened to be there. He said, 'If you bend over and Im behind you, youre hosed.' I shot right up and said, 'No, motherfucker, if you touch me, youre gonna be hosed.' He looked at me as if to say, 'Hey, I was just kidding.' I definitely wasnt kidding though. All the boys in the locker room couldnt believe what Id said because Pat had a lot of stroke." This is not that complicated.
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Feb 23, 2024 19:42
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Everything just changes when you add in the power dynamic of someone like Patterson being in a position of authority over these other men who were usually much younger as well That power imbalance immediately separates any lived experience of an average gay man compared to him, and it's not great to conflate those lived experiences
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Feb 23, 2024 20:03
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davidbix posted:Speaking as someone who's done more research/reporting about Titangate than anyone else has in the last 30 years but who also wrote an incredibly sympathetic and widely-acclaimed ~3,500 word article about the unusually cruel persecution that Pat Patterson faced as a gay immigrant, I can be very confident in telling you that you have no idea what you're talking about. Where can I read your reporting?
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Feb 23, 2024 21:03
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Sydney Bottocks posted:We joke, but there are at least a couple of goons who unironically used "I'm supporting the good people" as their justification for why they won't stop watching WWE. It's literally this but for wrestling, if you'll forgive the format 
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Feb 23, 2024 21:11
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HonorableTB posted:It's literally this but for wrestling, if you'll forgive the format It's funny because the Catholic church worked on this principle for a long time. Did a bunch of mortal sins? NBD pay an artist to paint a fresco (featuring you) in your local church and all is forgiven!
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Feb 23, 2024 21:16
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Endless Mike posted:It's funny because the Catholic church worked on this principle for a long time. Did a bunch of mortal sins? NBD pay an artist to paint a fresco (featuring you) in your local church and all is forgiven! Tony Khan is Martin Luther.
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Feb 23, 2024 21:30
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Lid posted:Tony Khan is Martin Luther. No way would Tony Khan limit his theses at 95 e: crap I thought this was a different thread Dango Bango fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Feb 23, 2024 |
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Feb 23, 2024 21:38
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Dango Bango posted:No way would Tony Khan limit his theses at 95 105 theses with overrun
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Feb 23, 2024 21:43
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