GPU Megat[H]read - the cores of wrath grew heavy on the die that day

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > GPU Megat[H]read - the cores of wrath grew heavy on the die that day

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Dr. Video Games 0031: Jul 17, 2004

Canned Sunshine posted:

The screen compromise would be disappointing, though as you said, to be expected. I�m still excited though to see what a Switch 2 with DLSS can do at 4K on my C2.

This is totally unconfirmed theorycrafting, though it's backed up by performance testing on an actual GPU that may be close to what the Switch 2 will have:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czUipNJ_Qqs

With the GPU tested here, 4K DLSS just has too much overhead cost to be viable in most circumstances. So now the speculation is that Nvidia may be cooking up a special low-overhead version of DLSS for Nintendo. But if so, I wonder if it would really be much better than FSR2 or TSR anyway. Though I guess getting equivalent IQ to TSR but with lower overhead would be a win.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 00:24

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# ? May 29, 2024 18:57

steckles: Jan 14, 2006

Cygni posted:

the best selling console of this generation and 2nd highest all time is an off the shelf Nvidia SoC using Nvidia's in house API, and the rumor from this week was that Nvidia has placed a massive fab order for a Switch 2 launch this time next year.

Nintendo could re-release the Game Boy Advance and call it the Switch 2 and it'd sell well. Being the only place to play Zelda and Mario games probably has a lot more to do with its success than what hardware is inside.

As for Sony and Microsoft, I can't see a really compelling reason why they'd switch off what's proven to be a pretty safe bet so far, at least not in the next generation or two. AMD is the devil they know and have shown that they can make an APU which performs well enough and is cheap enough that it can be put it in a $500 box without losing too much money. They also aren't worth 2 trillion dollars and are probably a lot more willing to negotiate and get along than NVidia is.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 00:30

parasyte: Aug 13, 2003; Nobody wants to die except the suicides. They're no fun.

change my name posted:

Does the PS5 version do the same thing as the PC version of Remake wherein it has resolution scaling built in to hit a target FPS and can get SUPER crusty in really fast-paced scenes? I immediately downloaded the mod that disables it after buying Remake

presumably, but the dynamic resolution scaling actually works on console targets and basically doesn't on PC, at least for the UE4 versions Remake Integrade used.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 00:41

Dr. Video Games 0031: Jul 17, 2004

Rebirth doesn't have dynamic resolution scaling, according to DF's analysis. It uses nearest neighbor scaling combined with low-res post processing effects, and the performance mode looks like absolute poo poo as a result. Quality mode is high enough resolution to still look good with this setup, but then you have to deal with 30 fps.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 00:49

kliras: Mar 27, 2021

they also don't have any motion blur when you move the camera which also makes the game feel even jankier. maybe an overreaction to how much people hated the extreme motion blur with no dedicated setting to dial it down in ff16

or it's because they'd have to tune it based on camera speed or something

# ? Feb 27, 2024 00:58

VorpalFish: Mar 22, 2007; reasonably awesome^tm

Canned Sunshine posted:

Edit:

I don’t think you could necessarily get an ARM SoC that could do 4K/high refresh with modern graphics options right now, for $500. Do I think you could get it by throwing enough cores at it, whether looking at what Apple did with Apple Silicon or what Qualcomm is doing with Oyron? Sure, but at this point it wouldn’t be $500, an I never claimed as such.

In a few more years, do I think you could get a custom SoC from Qualcomm that delivers the necessary CPU/GPU cores for such performance, and at $500 or less? Absolutely, in part because there are benefits to going with ARM that would reduce costs in other areas of the BOM, while obviously increasing the cost of the SoC (at least I would assume).

That's exactly my point; you could achieve the same thing by "throwing enough cores at it" using x86 and AMDs graphics IP (well more like more GPU transistor budget rather than CPU cores). AMDs capabilities aren't the problem, it's the extremely constrained BOM combined with 6+ year life cycles inherent to consoles and ARM doesn't get you around any of that.

Arm isn't magic. Making the m chips is massively expensive, and apple gets to spread that cost across an entire high margin product line ranging from phones to computers. That makes r&d a lot easier to bear.

Frankly I'm very skeptical we'll see an soc from anyone, including apple or qualcomm, in the next 2-3 years that can do 4k60 in AAA titles and is also cheap enough to go in a $500 machine, regardless of the CPU uarch.

Maybe leaning heavily on some very clever upscaling. But that's also something AMD can do even if fsr isn't as good as dlss. At the end of the day it'll come down to price.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 02:05

MH Knights: Aug 4, 2007

steckles posted:

Nintendo could re-release the Game Boy Advance and call it the Switch 2 and it'd sell well. Being the only place to play Zelda and Mario games probably has a lot more to do with its success than what hardware is inside.

As for Sony and Microsoft, I can't see a really compelling reason why they'd switch off what's proven to be a pretty safe bet so far, at least not in the next generation or two. AMD is the devil they know and have shown that they can make an APU which performs well enough and is cheap enough that it can be put it in a $500 box without losing too much money. They also aren't worth 2 trillion dollars and are probably a lot more willing to negotiate and get along than NVidia is.

Isn't MS still unhappy with Nvidia over the original XBox? Nvidia is also an AI company now and feels gaming is beneath it.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 02:37

Cygni: Nov 12, 2005; raring to post

MH Knights posted:

Nvidia is also an AI company now and feels gaming is beneath it.

they launched a mid cycle refresh on their high end gpus 39 days ago

i feel like that article that New Yorker article with a 10 year old quote from Jensen about nvidia being "no longer a graphics company" is still floating around in peoples memory

# ? Feb 27, 2024 02:46

njsykora: Jan 23, 2012; Robots confuse squirrels.

MH Knights posted:

Isn't MS still unhappy with Nvidia over the original XBox? Nvidia is also an AI company now and feels gaming is beneath it.

I'd wager Sony is also unhappy with them for the PS3 GPU that got so hot it broke itself off the motherboard until a massive die shrink made it reasonably reliable. There's plenty of historical corporate grudges to keep anyone from using Nvidia in a console, I'm honestly surprised Nintendo stuck with them given the big security vunerability in the Switch is an inherent flaw in the X1's design.

steckles posted:

Nintendo could re-release the Game Boy Advance and call it the Switch 2 and it'd sell well. Being the only place to play Zelda and Mario games probably has a lot more to do with its success than what hardware is inside.

Especially because most people don't give a poo poo about the hardware, Sony could never have publicly said what was in the PS5 on a technical level and nothing would be different. Remember Microsoft making a big deal early on that the Xbox Series consoles had access to the full RDNA2 feature set which the PS5 didn't? No-one cared.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 03:40

wargames: Mar 16, 2008; official yospos cat censor

VorpalFish posted:

There's no $500 all in current gen hardware package that wouldn't struggle with 4K and modern graphics options for AAA titles; arm doesn't solve that problem.

Will they consider ARM in the future? Sure. Maybe seriously, maybe as a lever to extract better pricing from AMD.

MS may be interested in doing something for azure, and scaling that down to console size. But they'll still need graphics IP. Or they go to Nvidia, who could certainly do a custom arm soc for them. But at the price point they want is it doing 4k60 well? Probably not, at least not for a few generations.

MS has already committed billions toward AMD for azure AI, why would they now switch to NV for xbox?

# ? Feb 27, 2024 06:52

VorpalFish: Mar 22, 2007; reasonably awesome^tm

wargames posted:

MS has already committed billions toward AMD for azure AI, why would they now switch to NV for xbox?

I think you got me wrong, I'm the person arguing that sony/MS are NOT necessarily going to drop AMD just because AMD isn't as appealing at the very high end of the GPU market. I'm not saying they will.

It wouldn't shock me if they did /if/ someone got them better pricing, though. MS buying from AMD for azure doesn't mean they won't jump somewhere else for Xbox if they feel it will make them more money.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 12:54

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

shrike82 posted:

People seem to be saying that GTA6 will drive PS5 Pro sales - I can imagine myself picking one up for it if there's no mention of a PC launch

There's no indication that they're going to change their standard playbook of releasing the PC version a year later. They want people double dipping on multiple platforms.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 14:57

HalloKitty: Sep 30, 2005; Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast

Cyrano4747 posted:

There's no indication that they're going to change their standard playbook of releasing the PC version a year later. They want people double dipping on multiple platforms.

Yeah just forget it exists for a while. I did that with gta v.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 15:14

repiv: Aug 13, 2009

Cyrano4747 posted:

There's no indication that they're going to change their standard playbook of releasing the PC version a year later. They want people double dipping on multiple platforms.

plus shark cards are the real cash cow and they know the PC version will immediately get private servers with free money, and free money hacks on the official servers if they don't fix their netcode

# ? Feb 27, 2024 15:41

Taima: Dec 31, 2006; tfw you're peeing next to someone in the lineup and they don't know

It loving amazes me that its 2024 and FF7 Rebirth isn't shipping with VRR support. I'm far too weak to wait on the PC version, and it's increasingly looking like 30 fps mode is the only real choice with the game.

It's insane how hostile Sony has been to VRR on the PS5 at literally every step, and I would be really curious if anyone knows why. I'm loving dying here, it's 2024 and I'm about to play a game at 30 fps when the option to have an unlocked ~40 fps VRR mode like Forbidden West is right loving there. And we know it would work because all accounts are that the 30 fps mode in Rebirth is rock solid.

bwaaaaahgggg

just take the 30 fps mode and unlock it omg they probably did some absolutely duncecap level poo poo like tie physics to frame rate or something equally stupid

Taima fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Feb 27, 2024

# ? Feb 27, 2024 16:02

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

Taima posted:

It loving amazes me that its 2024 and FF7 Rebirth isn't shipping with VRR support. I'm far too weak to wait on the PC version, and it's increasingly looking like 30 fps mode is the only real choice with the game.

It's insane how hostile Sony has been to VRR on the PS5 at literally every step, and I would be really curious if anyone knows why. I'm loving dying here, it's 2024 and I'm about to play a game at 30 fps when the option to have an unlocked ~40 fps VRR mode like Forbidden West is right loving there. And we know it would work because all accounts are that the 30 fps mode in Rebirth is rock solid.

bwaaaaahgggg

just take the 30 fps mode and unlock it omg they probably did some absolutely duncecap level poo poo like tie physics to frame rate or something equally stupid

Is it a Sony thing or a Square thing?

# ? Feb 27, 2024 16:11

K8.0: Feb 26, 2004; Her Majesty's 56th Regiment of Foot

repiv posted:

plus shark cards are the real cash cow and they know the PC version will immediately get private servers with free money, and free money hacks on the official servers if they don't fix their netcode

I can't find the article but I'm pretty sure Take 2 revealed sometime last year that PC was at least competitive in total revenue. Rockstar has actually come around and even directly supported stuff like the RP servers which have driven huge interest and ongoing sales.

Don't get me wrong, they will still delay the PC release at least a year, but it will be more about driving double dipping than anything else. They will crack down on modding again, but in the long run the modders will win and Rockstar will embrace the long tail.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 16:16

Taima: Dec 31, 2006; tfw you're peeing next to someone in the lineup and they don't know

Cyrano4747 posted:

Is it a Sony thing or a Square thing?

That's a good question.

Sony claimed VRR support on the PS5 and it took them almost 2 years if I remember right, to even get around to making it work. Even now there are like 25 games that support VRR on the console. Even now, you can't really turn it on? You just set VRR as "auto" and the console decides if it wants to bestow VRR upon you.

So my baseline assumption is that Sony screwed the pooch on VRR implementation and the getting it setup is hard, annoying or both.

It's hard to give Square a pass though because they haven't exactly gone out of their way to support new standards either. The whole "tie physics to FPS" thing in particular has been a major problem with games out of Japan for such a long time now, but in general the party lines seems to be that they are years late to the party of any new graphical standard. I have no idea why this is such a consistent problem, if anyone knows why i am genuinely curious.

That poo poo is rife; for example, in Sekiro for PC you need to run a secondary program to mod unlocked FPS into the EXE. It doesn't cause any problems that I saw, they just didn't want to unlock FPS for no discernable reason.

Taima fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Feb 27, 2024

# ? Feb 27, 2024 16:16

uiruki: Aug 6, 2003; blah blah blah

In the demo at least, it does work with VRR - my monitor showed a drop in refresh rate when it was dropping frames. It just doesn't have unlocked modes, which is a shame as I bet it could spend a fair amount of time well over 60 given how conservative the performance mode settings are.

I think the main problem with VRR on PS5, especially at lower frame rates, is the fact the output doesn't go below 48hz and any low framerate compensation needs to be coded in at the game level. I've definitely played games where it smoothly drops below 60 until it hits that 48fps mark and it all goes wrong.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 16:28

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

Taima posted:

That's a good question.

Sony claimed VRR support on the PS5 and it took them almost 2 years if I remember right, to even get around to making it work. Even now there are like 25 games that support VRR on the console. Even now, you can't really turn it on? You just set VRR as "auto" and the console decides if it wants to bestow VRR upon you.

So my baseline assumption is that Sony screwed the pooch on VRR implementation and the getting it setup is hard, annoying or both.

It's hard to give Square a pass though because they haven't exactly gone out of their way to support new standards either. The whole "tie physics to FPS" thing in particular has been a major problem with games out of Japan for such a long time now, but in general the party lines seems to be that they are years late to the party of any new graphical standard.

That poo poo is rife; for example, in Sekiro for PC you need to run a secondary program to mod unlocked FPS into the EXE. It doesn't cause any problems that I saw, they just didn't want to unlock FPS for no discernable reason.

I was curious and did some light lunchtime googling. Here's an old Ars article about the first chunk of Remake that points out a bunch of PC standard graphical options that are missing, VRR among them. Looks like it might be a Square thing? https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/12/final-fantasy-vii-remake-on-pc-a-gorgeous-start-but-where-are-the-toggles/

That said, if the tools for VRR are a pain in the rear end it could also be on Sony. A lot of this smells like a game dev not thinking that customers need those kind of options, though, and this thinking isn't exactly uncommon in the Japanese studios.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 16:30

Bloopsy: Jun 1, 2006; you have been visited by the Tasty Garlic Bread. you will be blessed by having good Garlic Bread in your life time, but only if you comment "ty garlic bread" in the thread below

Taima posted:

Sony VRR

The Bravia I purchased shortly before the ps5 release touted 4k/120 out of the box with VRR support to come very shortly after the TV launched. 4K/120 worked great but like the PS5, it took nearly 2 years for that feature to be implemented.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 16:37

kliras: Mar 27, 2021

i still can't help wonder what special kind of mess the ff16 port is going to be when it comes out on pc

# ? Feb 27, 2024 16:43

FuturePastNow: May 19, 2014

Cyrano4747 posted:

There's no indication that they're going to change their standard playbook of releasing the PC version a year later. They want people double dipping on multiple platforms.

For some numbers: RDR2 Playstation release date was 26 October 2018 and its PC release was 5 November 2019. Expect similar for any major R* game.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 17:45

repiv: Aug 13, 2009

we're coming up on 2 years since the GTA5 PS5/XSX upgrade came out and they still haven't put any of those improvements on PC (not that i expect them ever to at this point)

# ? Feb 27, 2024 17:53

buglord: Jul 31, 2010; Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!; Buglord

Just got an email from Nvidia stating that on March, the free tier or GeForce Now will have ads while in queue before a gaming session. Idk what that means because I only ever used it once a few years ago as a curiosity. But I wonder when they�re gonna start putting ads into the paid tiers.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 18:52

shrike82: Jun 11, 2005

lol if GTA6 runs (only) at 4k30
that'll be the first time in a while many gamers are forced to play at 30 this gen

# ? Feb 27, 2024 18:58

kliras: Mar 27, 2021

buglord posted:

Just got an email from Nvidia stating that on March, the free tier or GeForce Now will have ads while in queue before a gaming session. Idk what that means because I only ever used it once a few years ago as a curiosity. But I wonder when they�re gonna start putting ads into the paid tiers.

it's a maximum of two minutes during queue or something, which sounds reasonable. kind of like when you get a random coupon with your online orders out of nowhere. it's a funny thing to see from a company currently making so much money though

# ? Feb 27, 2024 19:00

repiv: Aug 13, 2009

shrike82 posted:

lol if GTA6 runs (only) at 4k30
that'll be the first time in a while many gamers are forced to play at 30 this gen

60fps will be for the (paid) ps6 upgrade

# ? Feb 27, 2024 19:01

kliras: Mar 27, 2021

i genuinely don't mean it in a doomer way, but it's just better to never assume things will run well, and that no amount of hardware updates will fix it

surely elden ring's dlc will have native xess and dlss support too

# ? Feb 27, 2024 19:03

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

FuturePastNow posted:

For some numbers: RDR2 Playstation release date was 26 October 2018 and its PC release was 5 November 2019. Expect similar for any major R* game.

GTA5 took like two years and they never released RDR1 on PC. I'm not going to be holding my breath.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 19:12

Branch Nvidian: Nov 29, 2012

kliras posted:

i still can't help wonder what special kind of mess the ff16 port is going to be when it comes out on pc

The only reason I'm holding out hope for it not being a dumpster fire on PC at launch is that it's Creative Business Unit 3 making it, and they're already familiar with PC development due to FF14. And while FF16's engine probably isn't the same engine used for FF14, it is likely some kind of fork of it or was otherwise built by CBU3 for the game knowing there would be a PC version eventually.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 19:17

Zero VGS: Aug 16, 2002; ASK ME ABOUT HOW HUMAN LIVES THAT MADE VIDEO GAME CONTROLLERS ARE WORTH MORE; Lipstick Apathy

buglord posted:

Just got an email from Nvidia stating that on March, the free tier or GeForce Now will have ads while in queue before a gaming session. Idk what that means because I only ever used it once a few years ago as a curiosity. But I wonder when they�re gonna start putting ads into the paid tiers.

It means for the few minutes you're waiting for a slot you get ads, before the free 40-minute session. Then rinse and repeat.

I only ever use it as a way to get my daily login rewards for F2P games like Warframe, while I'm on the move (runs on a phone/laptop and you don't need to spend 3 hours downloading a game)

No matter how you slice it, they lose money on people who only use the free tier. Some Vice CFO took a look and said to recoup some bucks.

Zero VGS fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Feb 27, 2024

# ? Feb 27, 2024 19:19

Regrettable: Jan 5, 2010

mobby_6kl posted:

GTA5 took like two years and they never released RDR1 on PC. I'm not going to be holding my breath.

According to them they would have basically had to recode the entire game to get RDR1 to run on a PC and that's why they never released it. Consoles are powerful enough now that they don't have to do black magic on a game just to get it to run on a Playstation.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 19:21

repiv: Aug 13, 2009

they went to the trouble of porting RDR1 to PS4 and switch, and from there it's not much of a leap to also put it on PC, but they didn't want to

at least the switch version is easier to emulate than the original 360/PS3 version if you really want to play it

repiv fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Feb 27, 2024

# ? Feb 27, 2024 19:24

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

repiv posted:

they went to the trouble of porting RDR1 to PS4 and switch, and from there it's not much of a leap to also put it on PC, but they didn't want to

Sure, but there's a huge gulf between not bothering with a PC port of the re-release of your decade-and-a-half year old game vs. not planning to eventually release your latest and greatest open world micro-transaction cash cow on PC.

The PC version sure as poo poo isn't shipping the same year as the console version, but I'll loving guarantee that they release it eventually.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 19:27

HalloKitty: Sep 30, 2005; Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast

shrike82 posted:

lol if GTA6 runs (only) at 4k30
that'll be the first time in a while many gamers are forced to play at 30 this gen

4k upscaled from 1440p, 30 fps. Of course it will be. Maybe even dynamic or lower input res, fsr2

I'll wait for the pc release

# ? Feb 27, 2024 19:47

Zedsdeadbaby: Jun 14, 2008; You have been called out, in the ways of old.

We're talking about the same devs that pulled off RDR2 on consoles. It may have just been 30fps, but it still looks better than 95% of current gen games, and runs at native 4k on the last-gen one x. Let's give them a little credit.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 21:08