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It sounds like the real solution is to cut class sizes and give teachers more administrative support for enforcement. Shame no one is ever going to be interested in doing that.
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Feb 27, 2024 19:38
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volts5000 posted:Yeah, that's when administration/school system has to get involved. The biggest hurdle. This is the part I expect to take legislation. Something like "schools must require phones to stay put away in class, confiscation on sight, three violations means you don't get to have one in your bag and get searched daily for a week, then [something else]." There HAS to be an escalation path because just taking them away for the day won't be sustainable. But I can't think of anything I'm at all confident could pass and stand up to challenge.
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Feb 27, 2024 19:40
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Any possible solution would require funding, and teachers should not become addicted to funding lest it take hold of them and they start to resent its absence
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Feb 27, 2024 19:43
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I don't even know if this is funny or sad anymore, but Clarence Thomas is basically beyond parody at this point. Thomas has hired a woman who had to resign a job at Turning Point USA for being too racist and sending racist text messages to other employees at her job. Messages like: quote:“I HATE BLACK PEOPLE. Like f‑‑‑ them all … I hate blacks. End of story,” quote:Other employees describe times when Clanton sent messages where she "spoke badly about black women having all these babies out of wedlock." quote:Clarence Thomas hires clerk accused of sending racist texts https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4490167-clarence-thomas-hires-clerk-accused-of-sending-racist-texts/
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Feb 27, 2024 19:44
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Xand_Man posted:Any possible solution would require funding, and teachers should not become addicted to funding lest it take hold of them and they start to resent its absence To be fair, the U.S. has long spent significantly more per student than other countries. The issue is that the funds aren't divided especially equally and the bottom 10% of U.S. schools perform way worse than the bottom 10% of other countries. The issue in the U.S. is more that the money isn't necessarily going to the places that need it the most, but there is a lot of money floating around in the U.S. education system. quote:In 2019, the United States spent $15,500 per full-time-equivalent (FTE) student on elementary and secondary education, which was 38 percent higher than the average of Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) member countries of $11,300 (in constant 2021 U.S. dollars). At the postsecondary level, the United States spent $37,400 per FTE student, which was more than double the average of OECD countries ($18,400; in constant 2021 U.S. dollars). https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cmd/education-expenditures-by-country
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Feb 27, 2024 19:47
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:time for teachers to start rolling out electronic warfare. the skills the children learn while bypassing the frequency jamming will be all the education they need This. Learned all my early IT tricks bypassing school firewalls to build CS servers on the computer lab. "Ha, domain Administrator logins required? Have you heard of a Linux boot drive before?" -16 yr old BlueBlazer
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Feb 27, 2024 19:52
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Every time I see the spending breakdown in US education, I just... I genuinely can't make sense of where all that cash is actually going. It doesn't ever seem to add up. "It's all just going to the rich schools" that would explain some of it, but there still seems to be a lot left, too, and it just doesn't make any sense. I'd really love if someone actually did like a specific school districts total breakdown, one thats having trouble despite on paper getting enough money, and tracked every dollar and where and how it was spent, a genuine deep dive, because something definitely seems to be wrong.
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Feb 27, 2024 19:56
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I know it isn't really the teacher's fault directly, but that article is really depressing with how impotent they seem. Meanwhile, my son's private (Catholic) school sent an email today saying they are installing vape detectors in all the bathrooms and have security cameras pointing at the doors. They will immediately notify security if they detect vaping, who will search the student. If found with a vape pen or Juul they will be suspended for a week on the first offense, expelled on the second.
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Feb 27, 2024 19:58
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GlyphGryph posted:Every time I see the spending breakdown in US education, I just... I genuinely can't make sense of where all that cash is actually going. It doesn't ever seem to add up. Feels like the same could be said of the US healthcare system, lots of money going in, but output is lacking.
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Feb 27, 2024 20:01
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WarpedLichen posted:Feels like the same could be said of the US healthcare system, lots of money going in, but output is lacking. But we know where that money is going at least. Nobody is making a profit on public education like drug companies, insurance companies, etc are with healthcare.
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Feb 27, 2024 20:03
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Fork of Unknown Origins posted:But we know where that money is going at least. Nobody is making a profit on public education like drug companies, insurance companies, etc are with healthcare. charter schools and ed tech companies are making a fortune
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Feb 27, 2024 20:07
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GlyphGryph posted:Every time I see the spending breakdown in US education, I just... I genuinely can't make sense of where all that cash is actually going. It doesn't ever seem to add up. My guess is that the general shortfall is long term under investment. If you never invest in a community from 1800 to the present, it costs a LOT of money to catch up. You can't just increase salaries and call it a day. This might be the sort of thing you're asking for: https://rfa.sc.gov/education-funding-dashboard Look at that then Google "corridor of shame"
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Feb 27, 2024 20:07
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my naive guess is that confounding variables in bottom 10% such as food insecurity, threats of violence, etc. results in less educational gains then the gap in funding would suggestFork of Unknown Origins posted:But we know where that money is going at least. Nobody is making a profit on public education like drug companies, insurance companies, etc are with healthcare. as a scientist in public employ, i'm obligated to angrily wave my fist in the vague direction of the administrative apparatus
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Feb 27, 2024 20:07
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Fork of Unknown Origins posted:But we know where that money is going at least. Nobody is making a profit on public education like drug companies, insurance companies, etc are with healthcare. Certain charter schools or consulting/admin firms are making a profit, but they aren't a huge amount. Even if all of them were 100% grifts, then that is about 8% of schools. It's hard to track school spending specifics in the U.S. because all the money flows to local districts, who then divvy it up among the schools in their districts. There isn't a federal or even state database in most places that shows exactly where all the money is going. You have to look up every individual district and hope they have laws or policies that allow you to see specifics.
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Feb 27, 2024 20:09
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Fork of Unknown Origins posted:But we know where that money is going at least. Nobody is making a profit on public education like drug companies, insurance companies, etc are with healthcare. For healthcare, at least, a very surprisingly large amount of that money isn't going towards profits, either - a lot of it is spent on needless paperwork and other "control systems" that involve vastly increasing the amount of effort needed to do what should be simple tasks. I wouldn't be super surprised if education was facing a similar secret moneysink, where it's basically competition between two different groups trying to maximize their personal benefit in a mutually destructive way due to systemic issues. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Feb 27, 2024 |
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Feb 27, 2024 20:09
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lobster shirt posted:charter schools and ed tech companies are making a fortune Yeah , a lot of money is being diverted into privatization but thats recent.
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Feb 27, 2024 20:10
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Fork of Unknown Origins posted:But we know where that money is going at least. Nobody is making a profit on public education like drug companies, insurance companies, etc are with healthcare. I mean I think looking at what's happening with colleges, where a lot of money is being siphoned off to "administrative" tasks instead of the faculty or the facilities. I'm sure there are tons of profit seeking actors in the system.
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Feb 27, 2024 20:12
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:as a scientist in public employ, i'm obligated to angrily wave my fist in the vague direction of the administrative apparatus My old town's school superintendent retired after 20 years in the system, where she was making $380,000 a year. She immediately started drawing her pension (which she didn't have to pay into for some reason) of 250,000 a year. Well, the school district needed a new superintendent so they started the hiring process. But in the meantime, they needed someone to run the show. Who did they hire as an interum superintendent? Why the same woman who retired the day before. Her salary? 400,000 a year. Strangely enough, it took them two years before they hired a full time superintendent. Who did they end up picking? The vice superintendent. The local moms facebook is a right wing sewer, and they constantly complain about high property taxes, sales taxes and the general cost of living. But if you even think of bringing up this example or the fact that local police are the best paid in the state well...you are a goddamn socialist. But if the library wants a few thousand to replace the i486s they have had for who knows how long the loving explosions on that facebook group are amazing. Oh, did I mention i lived in George Santos's old district?
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Feb 27, 2024 20:12
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:My guess is that the general shortfall is long term under investment. If you never invest in a community from 1800 to the present, it costs a LOT of money to catch up. You can't just increase salaries and call it a day. This is actually a really good example of data collection at the state level and I'm surprised that one of the best states for this kind of thing is South Carolina of all places.
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Feb 27, 2024 20:13
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I wasn’t clear enough, I know many are profiting on education but not at the scale of grift and rent seeking that exists in healthcare. Yet, anyway. Charter and other companies are giving it a shot. The answer to so many of our questions is “a better student:teacher ratio” but that involves building new schools and hiring new teachers and paying them enough to keep them.
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Feb 27, 2024 20:13
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GlyphGryph posted:Every time I see the spending breakdown in US education, I just... I genuinely can't make sense of where all that cash is actually going. It doesn't ever seem to add up. The US has a lot of expensive considerations that European schools don't necessarily need to deal with. For example, infrastructure - poor transportation infrastructure means that school districts across much of the country are paying for school buses and other transportation. There's also student considerations, such as the fact that about 10% of the US student population is ESL and thus extra resources need to be allocated for that. Another consideration is the general inefficiency of the school system - the US has a large number of school districts, so there's a fair amount of duplication of services and duplication of administration.
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Feb 27, 2024 20:13
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GlyphGryph posted:Every time I see the spending breakdown in US education, I just... I genuinely can't make sense of where all that cash is actually going. It doesn't ever seem to add up. the answer is that a disproportinate amount go to sports the school my sister works at recently stopped free lunches while also spending 2 million on a new gym
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Feb 27, 2024 20:14
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Here's the specific breakdown from last fiscal year for South Carolina public schools. They don't really make it totally clear what is included in operations, but the bulk of it is property maintenance, sports, and physical infrastructure like buses. Teachers are the biggest expense, followed by operations, followed by "other," then teacher's aides or special education, and finally administration. I also can't find any definition of what they count as "other," so I have no clue what makes up the bulk of that. 
Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Feb 27, 2024 |
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Feb 27, 2024 20:20
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The thing to keep in mind about staffing rural schools is that it is very difficult to hire people who are capable teachers who want to live in bumfuck nowhere.
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Feb 27, 2024 20:29
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Teachers are the biggest expense, followed by operations, followed by "other," then teacher's aides or special education, and finally administration. It says "instruction" is the biggest expense, but that doesn't necessarily mean teachers, does it? And even when it does, it might not even mean teaching. I would hope that would be the biggest, though. This is a good reminder that I really wanted to get involved in the local school system now that I have my own house, I should get on that.
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Feb 27, 2024 20:35
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GlyphGryph posted:It says "instruction" is the biggest expense, but that doesn't necessarily mean teachers, does it? And even when it does, it might not even mean teaching. I would hope that would be the biggest, though. I found the document they use to code all expenses here: https://rfa.sc.gov/sites/default/files/2023-10/Expenditure%20Categories%20for%20Dashboard%20FY22.pdf There's also a summary here: https://rfa.sc.gov/education-funding-dashboard There's a billion different small things in each category, but the biggest chunks of each are: quote:Instruction: Costs for teachers, teacher assistants, classroom materials
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Feb 27, 2024 20:37
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I mean most adults can't deal with having an addictive depression device in their pockets, much less minors. The horse has long sense left the barn but the best solution probably would have been to ban smart phones for minors. The parents' reasoning for having phones in class for emergencies would be satisfied with a dumb phone and if the US had any ability to keep up with new tech and regulate efficiently this could have been a solved problem before it started.
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Feb 27, 2024 20:40
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Professor Beetus posted:I mean most adults can't deal with having an addictive depression device in their pockets, much less minors. The horse has long sense left the barn but the best solution probably would have been to ban smart phones for minors. The parents' reasoning for having phones in class for emergencies would be satisfied with a dumb phone and if the US had any ability to keep up with new tech and regulate efficiently this could have been a solved problem before it started. Try getting parent controls and restrictions to work on Iphones. Its basically impossible, and I really think Apple does it on purpose. For example, you can disable apps after a specific time. But guess what, there is a 'ignore' button you can hit to ignore that bedtime rule.
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Feb 27, 2024 20:44
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Cimber posted:Try getting parent controls and restrictions to work on Iphones. Its basically impossible, and I really think Apple does it on purpose. For example, you can disable apps after a specific time. But guess what, there is a 'ignore' button you can hit to ignore that bedtime rule. I haven't actually used this feature, but this is what the documentation says about it: quote:When you schedule downtime, a 5-minute reminder is sent before downtime begins. You can ignore the reminder, or turn on downtime until the beginning of the scheduled downtime. It sounds like ignoring the reminder just lets you run right into the hard deadline and get cut off instead of closing things out and quitting gracefully. Surely there isn't a button on the "deadline imminent" screen that permanently removes the deadline right then and there? Especially on a managed child account?
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Feb 27, 2024 20:51
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Yeah I mean, how many parents are really going to get after their kids for watching Netflix or doom scrolling through social media at school when they spend half their days at work doing the same thing?
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Feb 27, 2024 20:52
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rscott posted:Yeah I mean, how many parents are really going to get after their kids for watching Netflix or doom scrolling through social media at school when they spend half their days at work doing the same thing? I would think many. Half of parenting is telling your children not to do the dumb poo poo that you yourself do.
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Feb 27, 2024 21:21
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GlassEye-Boy posted:without cell phones how are kids going to call their parents when a school shooting happens?!
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Feb 27, 2024 21:31
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PeterWeller posted:I would think many. Half of parenting is telling your children not to do the dumb poo poo that you yourself do. Yeah but kids recognize "Do as I say, not as I do" as bullshit and their behavior reflects that.
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Feb 27, 2024 21:42
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haveblue posted:I haven't actually used this feature, but this is what the documentation says about it: You would think, but no.What actually happens is after the downtime starts if you try to load an app it says 'This app is blocked until 7:30 AM when screen time resumes" or something to that effect. However there is a giant 'ignore' button at the bottom of the screen. If you hit that the app launches. You can also manually change your clock to say, five hours earlier and poof, downtime goes away too.
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Feb 27, 2024 21:47
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A possible motive for launching another doomed effort to recall California governor Gavin Newsom: the recall committee is deep in debt and liabilities and the skim from fundraising for a phoney-baloney recall would might make them solvent. https://twitter.com/Josh_Koehn/status/1762510494190186619 Article: https://sfstandard.com/2024/02/27/gavin-newsom-recall-effort-million-dollars-in-debt/
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Feb 27, 2024 21:47
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I found the document they use to code all expenses here: https://rfa.sc.gov/sites/default/files/2023-10/Expenditure%20Categories%20for%20Dashboard%20FY22.pdf It actually is a really cool breakdown, and thanks a ton Hieronymous Alloy for posting it.
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Feb 27, 2024 21:53
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GlassEye-Boy posted:without cell phones how are kids going to call their parents when a school shooting happens?! you say this as a joke but even when I was in high school 400 years ago in the early 2000s and had a non-smartphone, this was absolutely on my mind and I don't begrudge current students for not wanting to be separated from their devices due to a potential emergency situation
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Feb 27, 2024 21:55
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And don't forget that for urban districts at least, schools are providing far more services than they ever did before (special ed, counseling, feeding kids breakfasts and lunches, etc.) they are also doing it now in multiple languages, so there's a lot of additional expense per student baked in.
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Feb 27, 2024 21:56
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rscott posted:Yeah but kids recognize "Do as I say, not as I do" as bullshit and their behavior reflects that. Yeah sure, but you asked about what parents would do, not how their children would react. Also, "do as I say, not as I do" is not always bullshit, especially when we're talking about addictive and toxic behaviors. Like my dad told me, between puffs, to not smoke cigarettes because he knew what they were doing to his own health, not because he was some vile hypocrite. I thought it was bullshit, and my behavior reflected that long after I realized it wasn't. E: Lumpy posted:And don't forget that for urban districts at least, schools are providing far more services than they ever did before (special ed, counseling, feeding kids breakfasts and lunches, etc.) they are also doing it now in multiple languages, so there's a lot of additional expense per student baked in. Yes, this is the case in higher ed where we are providing the students with many more services and support staff than I had when I was an undergraduate.
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Feb 27, 2024 21:58
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haveblue posted:I haven't actually used this feature, but this is what the documentation says about it: That's how it works when you're setting downtime for yourself, which is assumed to be a voluntary thing when you just want to remind yourself to put the attention vacuum down for a bit. When you're using the parental controls to set up app restrictions for a child account, it works differently: quote:If your child requests more screen time, you can approve or decline the request in Settings > Screen Time or in Messages. Instead of giving them a button to delay or cancel it, it lets them send a text to the parents requesting permission to delay or cancel it.
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Feb 27, 2024 22:02
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