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Covok posted:It's a bad take BECAUSE we knoe Zlav canceled the shows because he viewed kids animation as a waste of money and abhors paying royalties because he only ever worked on reality TV. He is doing what reality TV people do: air a show, get your money, then destroy it for a tax write off. It's just no one cares if you do it for survivor season 98. But they care about it when its done to art. And Zslav is hated by everyone other than investors because of it. The tax write off thing only works for productions that haven't been released to my understanding like Batgirl because it's taxed as a complete loss. This doesn't work for released shows because it made some money through its release so it goes on the books normally. Being taken off the service is just being taken off the service. The only financial benefit is ostensibly the extra room made to promote other works and the lack of residuals that need to be paid. Also the possible future licensing profits as part of a bundle to some other streaming service.
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Feb 26, 2024 02:22
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Xelkelvos posted:Except it's paying a whole rear end service at this point and not the show itself. Well I suppose it's up to you whether that one hour of work at Starbucks is worth an entire month of Netflix.
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Feb 26, 2024 02:25
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In the end, too many people in charge of entertainment look down on animation and don't support the medium or the people creating within that medium.
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Feb 26, 2024 02:29
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Xelkelvos posted:The tax write off thing only works for productions that haven't been released to my understanding like Batgirl because it's taxed as a complete loss. This doesn't work for released shows because it made some money through its release so it goes on the books normally. Being taken off the service is just being taken off the service. The only financial benefit is ostensibly the extra room made to promote other works and the lack of residuals that need to be paid. Also the possible future licensing profits as part of a bundle to some other streaming service. The tax write off thing works for shows that were already broadcast, too. OK KO, Infinity Train, etc.
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Feb 26, 2024 02:49
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Neeksy posted:The tax write off thing works for shows that were already broadcast, too. Nah, that was about residuals wasn't it?
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Feb 26, 2024 03:01
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Not having to pay residuals is a "happy" byproduct of getting the writeoff.
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Feb 26, 2024 03:02
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Illmade posted:Well I suppose it's up to you whether that one hour of work at Starbucks is worth an entire month of Netflix. meanwhile, completely unrelated, I watched the ATLA remake ep 1 and it seems very Marvel-fied to me, like it's structured more like a superhero film than fantasy-adventure, complete with placing the origin and tragedy right at the start, and having the "i'm not ready for this" soliloquy, and the many "As you know," explanations
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Feb 26, 2024 03:06
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Well no one said that they are smart. But you cannot honestly argue that, all else being equal, the profitability of a show does not improve its chances of survival.
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Feb 26, 2024 03:25
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then nothing would be renewed because Netflix has never operated in the black in their entire existence
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Feb 26, 2024 03:33
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The 7th Guest posted:then nothing would be renewed because Netflix has never operated in the black in their entire existence Except (maybe) the first season of Stranger Things which is a weirdly convenient measuring stick when they want to axe something.
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Feb 26, 2024 03:56
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YggiDee posted:I figure that's kind of the point, Azula shouldn't be some kind of political leader, she should be in grade 9 (freshmen?) math Yeah, Azula always struck me as being a bit babyfaced even in animation. Her friends are basically a manic pixie athlete and a goth, and The Beach shows them acting more like a teen girl squad (guest starring Zuko) than a bunch of titled nobility that they are. The whole family is also shown to have youthful good looks, especially in their cleaned up formal outfits, and after all the build up Ozai being revealed as a pretty boy was quite the swerve when people expected a more conventional kind of villain with a sinister, intimidating appearance. And her meltdown in the end also makes a lot of sense for someone who's living a mix of high school queen bitch and Joffrey-but-competent; she has literally no concept of how a healthy relationship works, and once her friends betray her despite the leverage she has over them, she suddenly has no reason to believe anyone would remain loyal to her.
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Feb 26, 2024 05:29
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multiple creators have talked about how they're fine with piracy because of execs loving them and their shows over for stupid reasons but sure the real issue is the pirates who are unable to watch the show legally and who don't buy non existent merch you really don't gotta simp for cartoon execs and cry about pirates making their show die like that one director of that mcgee show a while back, its very silly
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Feb 26, 2024 10:16
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The 7th Guest posted:Or for another example, they cancelled Tuca and Bertie because the studio unionized (and killed Nailed It for the same reason). Is that what happened to Nailed It? drat, I was wondering if it was over or there were going to be more episodes ever.
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Feb 26, 2024 10:52
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Neeksy posted:The tax write off thing works for shows that were already broadcast, too. You'll have to cite that one for me then because the only write-offs that get bandied about are about unreleased productions. Not shows that had already been released/aired and then later not made available (not unlike various pre-streaming era network shows that never made it to syndication nor got physical release) The 7th Guest posted:i can tell you that without a doubt, it doesn't matter and is not connected to why shows are cancelled by Netflix. Netflix has cancelled many shows over the years and their popularity/success have had seemingly no impact on the decision whatsoever. For example, Netflix once had a belief that their shows only needed to have two seasons, resulting in a ton of shows ending after two seasons. Or for another example, they cancelled Tuca and Bertie because the studio unionized (and killed Nailed It for the same reason). For City of Ghosts, the Network claimed to have a special black box algorithm for what deserved renewals that they wouldn't share with the animation studio. The two season thing for Netflix is about the production contracts and how compensation rates would go up after the second season which just so happens to be where they cut off the vast majority of its original series. It's not some unbacked belief. It was basically them not wanting to pay more for a 3rd+ season unless it was outrageously popular like Stranger Things or Bojack Horseman. Xelkelvos fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Feb 26, 2024 |
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Feb 26, 2024 15:19
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Xelkelvos posted:The two season thing for Netflix is about the production contracts and how compensation rates would go up after the second season which just so happens to be where they cut off the vast majority of its original series. It's not some unbacked belief. It was basically them not wanting to pay more for a 3rd+ season unless it was outrageously popular like Stranger Things or Bojack Horseman. And it doesn't help how the service is just hemorrhaging money over the years as for a while they basically had two people who could approve new shows so it was kind of a "mom said no, ask dad" thing.
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Feb 26, 2024 15:30
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https://twitter.com/ianjq/status/1761853917330350442Dawgstar posted:And it doesn't help how the service is just hemorrhaging money over the years as for a while they basically had two people who could approve new shows so it was kind of a "mom said no, ask dad" thing. I know Max did this for some shows, but idk about Netflix where they'd straight up greenlight two seasons at the outset which muddies things a bit further as traditional broadcasting contracts are season by season and only multiple seasons get greenlit at the same time if they're staple series like The Simpsons or South Park or Law & Order etc. and animation getting a little more leeway in notice and renewal just because turnaround time is so long compared to live action so Harley Quinn is the example that immediate comes to mind as they were initially greenlit for two seasons and then got renewed for two more seasons. The functional difference between two seasons and one season with a midseason break in production is lost to me.
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Feb 26, 2024 15:56
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Yeah, I've only heard about Netflix commissioning two seasons at once in the case of animation tbh
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Feb 26, 2024 16:04
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I thought Netflix’s MO used to be commissioning a number of episodes up front, sometimes covering the entire show. If memory serves, She-Ra was done that way, with the show having been complete for a couple of years as episodes were dropped in seasons.
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Feb 26, 2024 16:17
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The_Doctor posted:I thought Netflix’s MO used to be commissioning a number of episodes up front, sometimes covering the entire show. If memory serves, She-Ra was done that way, with the show having been complete for a couple of years as episodes were dropped in seasons. Yeah, though like I said I think this only happened for animation.
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Feb 26, 2024 16:18
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The_Doctor posted:I thought Netflix’s MO used to be commissioning a number of episodes up front, sometimes covering the entire show. If memory serves, She-Ra was done that way, with the show having been complete for a couple of years as episodes were dropped in seasons. Though I believe Seasons 2 and 3 were originally intended to be a single season (and it kind of shows) but Netflix split them up for some reason
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Feb 26, 2024 16:41
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lol at both posts
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Feb 26, 2024 17:59
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TBH I've always parsed Steven's shirt as more red than pink anyway. Though I can totally believe that even "light red" is a bridge too far for idiotic merch/ad execs.
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Feb 26, 2024 19:50
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Let's just split the difference and call it salmon.
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Feb 26, 2024 22:20
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https://twitter.com/NicParris/status/1762217534303121558 It's a three post thread of how he's totally not mad and actually still correct.
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Feb 27, 2024 00:45
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Xelkelvos posted:The tax write off thing only works for productions that haven't been released to my understanding like Batgirl because it's taxed as a complete loss. This doesn't work for released shows because it made some money through its release so it goes on the books normally. Being taken off the service is just being taken off the service. The only financial benefit is ostensibly the extra room made to promote other works and the lack of residuals that need to be paid. Also the possible future licensing profits as part of a bundle to some other streaming service. Then, why can't Megas XLR be saved?
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Feb 27, 2024 01:06
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Xelkelvos posted:https://twitter.com/NicParris/status/1762217534303121558 Wow, it’s very much “yes you’re all right, but I’m still not wrong.” My dude, take the L.
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Feb 27, 2024 01:12
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"hints the use of commas"
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Feb 27, 2024 02:22
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Xelkelvos posted:It's a three post thread of how he's totally not mad and actually still correct.
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Feb 27, 2024 03:00
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I dunno, “a lot of people who bemoan the death of these shows have done absolutely nothing to support them and while that isn’t THE problem it is A problem” doesn’t seem like all that hot a take. Hell, I probably fit that bill. Why would I find it outlandish?
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Feb 27, 2024 07:42
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Sivart13 posted:sounds like a great time to leave it be and not spend too much of anyone's life discussing this random guy's opinions That’s the trouble, he’s not some random guy. He works in the industry and should know better.
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Feb 27, 2024 07:44
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Captain Oblivious posted:I dunno, “a lot of people who bemoan the death of these shows have done absolutely nothing to support them and while that isn’t THE problem it is A problem” doesn’t seem like all that hot a take. The thing is with a lot of modern shows there isn't really any way to actually support them(at least in a way that corporate bean counters actually care about) beyond watching the show and that's assuming they even have access to a way to legally watch it
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Feb 27, 2024 08:07
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Yeah, there are loads of shows I would have loved to support but I literally didn't have any way of doing so.
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Feb 27, 2024 08:14
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I'm still mad that Close Enough got ripped off HBO Max less than a month after Season 3 was released. At least I was able to actually see it!
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Feb 27, 2024 09:57
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Illmade posted:Well no one said that they are smart. The entire argument being made against your posts is that they would be in a complete vacuum of direct compensation of artists for work done completely correct. In practice this is not how it works and in particular recently has very little to no bearing on the continued existence or accessibility of a particular piece of media. Your posts are a weird classist indictment of an imaginary world where media artists get compensated for their work properly because it's read or watched or whatever, not a realistic analysis of the situation at all.
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Feb 27, 2024 10:01
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drrockso20 posted:The thing is with a lot of modern shows there isn't really any way to actually support them(at least in a way that corporate bean counters actually care about) beyond watching the show and that's assuming they even have access to a way to legally watch it No disagreement here which is precisely why I wouldn’t call it THE problem writ large even if it probably doesn’t help either on the whole. Well that and lunatic CEOs with a hate on for animation.
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Feb 27, 2024 11:37
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Even during the Nielsen ratings Era, watching a show "legally" had no effect on it unless you happen to be one of the few being measured at any given time. In the digital sphere it's still as much of a panopticon where anybody could be affecting the ratings of a show by streaming it or not at all and nobody could ever know because all those metrics are kept internally rather than measured by an outside party. This is before you even GET to the other reasons shows are canceled for "lack of support".
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Feb 27, 2024 12:11
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Yeah, a lot of shows get cancelled because they aren't driving subscriptions, or they aren't popping in hot markets. Everyone and their mother could be watching show X, but if they've already got subscriptions then Netflix loses nothing by cancelling the show. People tend to find other things to watch.
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Feb 27, 2024 12:20
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I'm still mad that Close Enough got ripped off HBO Max less than a month after Season 3 was released. At least I was able to actually see it! poo poo, there was a third season?
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Feb 27, 2024 20:52
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I'm rewatching the second season of Avatar: The Last Airbender. The Avatar Day episode had me convinced Kyoshi didn't do it and I must've been thinking of something else, before Kyoshi's confession at the end. I liked Aang bonding with the prisoners and them giving him advice about Katara while he was locked up. The second season is my favorite of the three because it has a lot of powerful moments, like where Zuko goes out to try and find lightning and shouts something like "You've never held back before!"
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Feb 28, 2024 17:43
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Kyoshi just admitting to it is still incredibly funny. "Yeah I killed him dude sucked"
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Feb 28, 2024 17:48
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