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Which season of Doctor Who should get a Blu-ray set next? This poll is closed. |
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| One of the black-and-white seasons |
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16 | 29.63% |
| Season 7 |
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7 | 12.96% |
| Season 11 |
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1 | 1.85% |
| Season 13 |
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0 | 0% |
| Season 15 |
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2 | 3.70% |
| The Key to Time |
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21 | 38.89% |
| Season 21 |
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0 | 0% |
| Season 25 |
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7 | 12.96% |
| Total: | 54 votes | ||
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The dog/human pairing thing is such a big swing. There's no way that plot point makes a lick of sense.
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Feb 28, 2024 00:48
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SirSamVimes posted:I'm halfway through Flux
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Feb 28, 2024 00:54
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Guardian dogs are up there with spontaneously manifesting trees in stupidity
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Feb 28, 2024 01:07
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I always try to focus on the things I liked, there's too much negativity in the world and I don't want to end up being one of those snooty types who says "hmf, it was mediocre at best". But Flux defeated me. Best I can do is not get mad at it
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Feb 28, 2024 01:19
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Remember when they removed all the videos on the official youtube chamnel to build up hype for the Flux? lol
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Feb 28, 2024 01:21
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For Flux to be bad, it would have to muster an emotional response.
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Feb 28, 2024 01:27
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Open Source Idiom posted:The dog/human pairing thing is such a big swing. There's no way that plot point makes a lick of sense.
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Feb 28, 2024 01:33
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There is a lot of Chibnall era stuff that is "Introduce cool or intriguing concept in Act I, then immediately do no thinking about it and do nothing interesting or clever with it." Eve of the Daleks had me super frustrated for example, because I thought "Doctor and companions caught in a time loop that always ends in their death, and they have to work out how to break it" was an amazingly good hook for a story. But then nothing really gets done with the loop, nothing thematically hangs on repeating the same actions, it's not used as a way of making clever reveals, or showing how you could use increasing foreknowledge to try and prevent the deaths of your friends. The guardian dogs thing is another example. I am not adverse to something so bonkers high concept, and thought it was a neat idea. But it very quickly falls apart as it becomes clear Chibnall hasn't bothered to, or isn't interested in, giving it any thought at all. It doesn't make any sense because there is no room to give it any amongst the rest of the pointless setup stuff happening. The explanation of "one dog for every human" may as well have just been characters lying for all the wider impact it makes on the events of the story. (Yes, they put all their ships together to protect earth, but it just kind of feels that it happebs just 'cause rather than it being an important or logical event)
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Feb 28, 2024 02:10
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All And Then and zero And Therefore.
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Feb 28, 2024 02:14
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Warthur posted:I really wanted a scene where Yaz's space dog confronted Dan's space dog about the whole "suspending Yaz upside-down over a lake of acid" thing. Going off this, maybe all the dogs get really territorial and murder each other, and that's why we've never seen them before.
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Feb 28, 2024 02:21
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Just what you want in your guardian angel
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Feb 28, 2024 02:31
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The most baffling thing to me was that the Sontarans defeat the Good Doggies by raiding their spaceships and blasting them all out the airlocks to die horrifically (like the children of Gallifrey did!) and then like 2 episodes later Dan's good doggy is able to defeat all the Sontarans at once and smugly points out that their ships are designed so any one of the good doggies can take control of all of them at once... which... then... how did the Sontarans.... I don't... this isn't... you can't just... faints
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Feb 28, 2024 02:44
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Jerusalem posted:The most baffling thing to me was that the Sontarans defeat the Good Doggies by raiding their spaceships and blasting them all out the airlocks to die horrifically (like the children of Gallifrey did!) and then like 2 episodes later Dan's good doggy is able to defeat all the Sontarans at once and smugly points out that their ships are designed so any one of the good doggies can take control of all of them at once... which... then... how did the Sontarans.... I don't... this isn't... you can't just... I swear a big part of the season is harmed by there being only one dog costume. I find it very funny that Dan's Good Boy is also a space time commando. For some reason. God all of that was so shite.
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Feb 28, 2024 03:47
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There's like maybe four Chibnall episodes where if anyone mentions the title, I don't go "wait, what happened in that one?"
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Feb 28, 2024 04:05
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Wolfechu posted:There's like maybe four Chibnall episodes where if anyone mentions the title, I don't go "wait, what happened in that one?" I remember a lot of them but still stumble with ones like Can You Hear Me?
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Feb 28, 2024 04:37
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Coward posted:Eve of the Daleks had me super frustrated for example, because I thought "Doctor and companions caught in a time loop that always ends in their death, and they have to work out how to break it" was an amazingly good hook for a story. But then nothing really gets done with the loop, nothing thematically hangs on repeating the same actions, it's not used as a way of making clever reveals, or showing how you could use increasing foreknowledge to try and prevent the deaths of your friends. Well, the counter to this is that introducing more complex elements to the story would just be giving Chibs more opportunities to ruin the whole thing. Very possibly a rare occurrence of recognizing his limitations and working within them, rather than his usual approach of letting the half-baked underthought elements get out of hand and undermine everything else. It's definitely grading on a very generous curve to rank this among the better of his episodes merely on the basis of being a decent concept executed decently, if simply, but that's the Chibnall era all over.
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Feb 28, 2024 04:52
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The ones I remember are with Friends-like substitute titles. The one where maybe Amazon is good actually. The gang butcher historic civil rights movement. The one where they kill a new species and the Doctor is mad because she wanted to do the final slaughtering using a different method. The one where they planet of the apes climate change. The one with the dogs. The one where they eventually let Master ra ra rasputin.
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Feb 28, 2024 04:58
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Attempt at accentuating the positive: I like Karvinista, particularly how he never actually warms up to Dan and is just mean to him from beginning to end. Also, while it's ridiculous that the Sontarans just killed all the dog men offscreen, Karvinista's sad little howl actually manages to somewhat sell it as an emotional moment. The Sontarans had some good jokes. The first episode I think, where the one Sontaran keeps commenting on how bad the other looks and he gets annoyed and says "no need to dwell on it" was, well, the closest I've come to laughing at any Chibnall episode. I dig the updated/retro design too. Some memorable usage of the Angels, throwing the picture of one in the fire and a burning Angel appearing was a highlight. I appreciated that they brought back the Time Of Angels quirk where the Angels are really pettily cruel. The actor who played Vinder was good. Though the best bit of that character is in a later episode when the Master says the Doctor's companion would never use a gun and Vinder shoots him and says "I'm freelance" or something. The retcon of UNIT where the Grand Serpent infiltrated it and got it shut down for uh, reasons I forget, and brought Kate Stewart back in a way that let her be smart and proactive, possibly more so than the main character of the show, and that's the start of a whole other conversation believe you me. The Grand Serpent interrogating the Doctor is probably one of Jodie Whitaker's best scenes in the show as well. Classic setup where the villain who's been established as powerful and deadly is in a position of power over the Doctor, who turns the tables on him while still strapped to the rack. There's more I'm sure, but my head hurts from digging up those. Hey remember how half the universe got destroyed offscreen and none of the characters seemed affected by it
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Feb 28, 2024 05:23
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2house2fly posted:the Grand Serpent... I really need to rewatch Thirteen's run because I had no idea who that was without Googling and even after that it was only a "oh he looks familiar" Oddly, I absolutely remember Vinder.
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Feb 28, 2024 05:34
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I'm actually looking forward to Village of Angels because the Angel scenes in Flux have been pretty much all good-for-Chibnall so I want to see if he is able to pull off an episode of them.
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Feb 28, 2024 05:40
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I did like Karvanista. The gruff Leeds accent didn't hurt
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Feb 28, 2024 06:06
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SirSamVimes posted:I'm halfway through Flux The villains aren’t very boring. Well, SOME of the villains aren’t very boring. Plus Jo Martin appears; that was nice. Doctor Spaceman posted:I remember a lot of them but still stumble with ones like Can You Hear Me? It’s pretty sad that an episode featuring an Eternal who feeds off the nightmares that he gives people by tearing off his fingers and sending yhem flying through the air to burrow into people’s ears can be forgettable! The answer, of course, is “No, I can’t hear you because I have a finger in my ear.”
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Feb 28, 2024 06:15
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Yeah, the good doggy was one of the highlights of the season for sure. Seconding that the Doctor completely no-selling and turning the tables on the Grand Serpent when she was supposedly his captive was really good too. It helped the actor did a very good job of coming across as thoroughly unlikable, and I had to laugh at that scene where he suggests taking over UNIT to the old guy he's been carefully ingratiating himself with and the guy basically goes,"Well can't do that... nobody loving likes you"  Sugar Skull Gang was good in that even if I still have no loving idea what their actual plan was, they seemed to be having a great loving time doing whatever it is they were doing!
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Feb 28, 2024 06:17
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I tried to watch Flux not long before Whittaker’s finale and I’m almost certain I fell asleep at some point during every single episode. I’m also pretty sure that thanks to the autoplay on whatever streamer it was, at one point I nodded off during episode 4, slept through all of episode 5, woke up briefly during episode 6, and then fell asleep again before it was over. I remember it being a very good nap.
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Feb 28, 2024 06:25
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Wasn’t there a suggestion that Vinder was supposed to be Captain Jack, but got scrapped after the whole Barrowman situation?
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Feb 28, 2024 06:30
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Narsham posted:The villains aren’t very boring. The main villains as far as I know(wannabe children of thanos) are incredibly boring though.
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Feb 28, 2024 06:44
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I think the bit with the Grand Serpent is somewhat lost if you aren't aware that he played properly the best single villain on long-running UK cop conspiracy corruption thriller Line of Duty. I want to be clear this doesn't make anything make more sense. But I do think it's an essential part of understanding the metatext of "why the gently caress do I care about this guy". You care about him because he's Dot Cotton!! (Boo!) It's very hard to explain Line of Duty though because it makes very little sense. It's sort of like: "what if everyone in the British state who wasn't a Good Cop was a corrupt paedo criminal except, twist, possibly there are no good cops, unless there are". Somehow that doesn't really get to the heart of it. It makes about as much sense as Flux but there's no dog aliens so it coheres a little more.
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Feb 28, 2024 07:10
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Season 12 Episode 9: Ascension of the Cybermen Written by Chris Chibnall, Directed by Jamie Magnus Stone Ashad posted:Every empire has its time. I have two distinct memories of this episode, which otherwise sat in the dim haze of much of Chibnall's output on Doctor Who. 1. The Master appears at the end. 2. There's quite a good scene where Graham and Yaz are hiding behind the bodies of dormant Cybermen, holding their breath and trying not to be discovered by the Cybermen (Ashad?) searching for them. Only one of those things actually happens in this episode. "You can't blame the writer for your bad memory, Jerusalem!" you might proclaim, but to that I reply,"Well actually, Strawman-I've-Concocted-to-Make-Myself-Feel-Smart, I can!" Because this episode somehow manages to turn the near extinction of the human race, a cat-and-mouse chase, a warp-speed pursuit across the galaxy, and the discovery and exploration of a derelict Cyber Warship into a boring slog that feels utterly inconsequential and where not even the characters appear remotely concerned about the potential fate of their friends, as if they've also seen the scenes of each other safe and making their escape and thus not having to feel worried. I don't know if the second scene happens in the next episode, one which I've done my best to form a scab over in my mind, but the 1st definitely does and part of the reason it's so memorable is because it's the first time something actually interesting happens in the episode. Which is perhaps me being overly unfair, I did enjoy the brief scene of the Doctor communicating with Ashad via hologram (a repeat of the trick from Resolution with the Dalek) and letting him be insufferable while she quietly dredged far more information from him than he thought he was giving. And also the scene where... no, no that's pretty much it. https://i.imgur.com/t5mm9FM.mp4 Following on directly from the end of the previous episode, the episode opens with narration of Ashad explaining some pretty valuable context we could have used last episode. The Cybermen were completely defeated in the far, far, far future and the Cyberium sent back in time (by who we still don't know, maybe it gets mentioned in the next episode?), with Ashad - who conversion was incomplete - jumping back in time (how? did the future Cybermen have time travel? If so why not... uhhh gently caress it, that way madness lies) and retrieving it from the Doctor. Now he plans to rebuild the army from essentially nothing, and the Doctor and companions show up planning to stop him. The whole episode has a weird kind of running on a treadmill feel to it, and this is perhaps best summed up in this first sequence. They arrive on a planet after using Percy Bysshe Shelley's scribbled coordinates and... apparently this is a part of history known to the Doctor? She speaks with authority on how this time is when the Cybermen met their final defeat, though it almost wiped out all of humanity in the process. A handful of survivors have hunkered down in a village on the furtherst edge of the galaxy trying to repair their equipment so they can make their escape to "Ko Shamus", except if the war is over and the Cybermen have all been defeated, what are they running from? The answer is Cybermen, or rather Ashad and two badly broken Cybermen which is apparently the complete extent of the once mighty Cybermen Empire. The surviving humans weren't being pursued by them, can't have known they were coming, couldn't have suspected they existed. Were they just aiming for Ko Shamus on the off-chance, not wanting to take a risk? In any case, the Doctor and companions arrive with a bunch of tech designed specifically to hold off a Cybermen attack... and not a single piece of it does anything to hold off the Cybermen attack! Apparently the Doctor's assembled tech didn't include anything to deal with aerial attacks (the Cybermen arrive in space ships, get out and walk to the village for no reason!) even though the Doctor is able to identify the flying head drones as a regular tactic used by Cybermen... was she just hoping the Cybermen had forgotten they could do that? Half the barely introduced humans immediately get killed, or rather fall over and look like they're taking naps, while the others escape to their ship which we'd been told was still a long way from being fixed but which immediately gets fixed and helps them escape. Graham and Yaz end up onboard that ship with most of the human survivors, while the Doctor, Ryan and a younger human teen figure out a clever plan to escape the chasing Cybermen and those aforementioned Cyberdrones... they can just run away from them!   The Doctor attempts to hot-wire one of the Cybermen ships, leading to a rather bizarre scene where the young teen shoves her out of the way and says he can do it faster. The Doctor, Timelord capable of calculating safe passage through both time and space taking into account orbital mechanics, gravity, time dilation, temporal eddies and multi-dimensional currents, simply stands back so a teenage boy can show her how its done. It works, and the ships takes off and flies away, Ashad ordering its "army" to give chase in the other ship which was left untouched as presumably the Doctor only had the one grenade that she tossed in Ashad's general direction earlier. Almost all of the rest of the episode is about the two ships flying away and where they end up. The Doctor, Ryan and the kid end up at Ko Shamus and discover they're a person, not a place. Graham, Yaz and the other humans whose names are Yedlarmi, Ravio and Bescot and that's the last time I'm writing that ridiculous stuff down have a tougher time of it. Their rickety "grav raft" gets pushed too hard in their attempt to avoid the Cybermen catching up, leaving them floating adrift. Realizing they've floated into a field of Cybermen corpses from one of the outer space battles of the recently ended war, they cut off their life support to put the last lingering remnants of power into a hail mary blast into a derelict ship nearby. That sounds very exciting, and it would have been in almost any other show I'm sure, but somehow the whole thing feels completely emotionless, with no sense of doubt or danger even with it being the penultimate episode of the season. They managed to crash land in a conveniently open hangar bay door and even more conveniently their presence immediately triggers the derelict ship to reactivate power and turn on oxygen (do the advanced, futuristic Cybermen need oxygen?). Even as they explore and discover the ship was carrying tens of thousands of dormant Cybermen left to just hang un-activated in space lacks any real sense of urgency. All the pieces are there for this to be something exciting or tense or action-packed and the execution just continually fails to match the strength of the concept.   The legend of Ko Shamus was that there was a way there for people to escape from one galaxy to another and avoid the Cybermen and the war. Ko Shamus himself explains that this legend is true, though of course he just calls it the Boundary, and his message calling for people to come there to escape lead to a misunderstanding where people thought his name was the name of the planet where the Boundary could be found. After everybody else had passed through, he decided to remain behind to guide others, but it's been a long time since anybody has come (exactly WHEN did this war end? The humans were acting like it had been hours or days at best) and he's thrilled now to see three of them. That's not all of course, the Doctor sends out a message which gets picked up by the Cybership that Yaz and Graham are on, so they learn that they're all still alive and Ko Shamus is about to have even more visitors. Ashad meanwhile arrives on the Cybership as well, and he and the two Cybermen begin searching, finding the dormant Cybermen (which are a very neat mix of old and new designs, including the old 70s/80s Cybermen helmets) which leads to a rather bizarre scene where Ashad starts waking them up but also... mutilating them? This doesn't get commented on or explained in any way, and the new Cybermen join up with him, what was he doing? Was it using the Cyberium in some way to make them listen to him? Would he really need that? I've assumed that having the Cyberium has made all the Cybermen immediately fall in line with his commands since this makes him "Control" but maybe he has to force it on them? I'm guessing here because this episode at least never explains it or even seems to think it needs explanation. What could be an interesting moral conundrum where the surviving humans warn Graham and Yaz that they shouldn't bring 100,000 Cybermen to Ko Shamus and the Boundary ends up being nothing too. Yaz just makes a very nice speech about how they're all gonna make it there and survive and stop the Cybermen somehow and everybody goes along with, outside of a mild joke by Graham about their self-delusion. Which of course leads to the inevitable where Ashad and his awakened Cybermen come stomping up to the control room they're in and start trying to break in, because apart from making the speech Yaz doesn't appear to have had any other plan or done anything else. The Doctor is hearing all this on the radio, but then is distracted by the Boundary shimmering and suddenly - after always opening to a different location every time - suddenly opens a direct portal to... Gallifrey. Somebody jumps through from the other side, the reverse of what the Boundary is for, and a very satisfied looking Master in the best moment of the entire episode cackles that he's just made a great entrance before warning the Doctor that everything is about to change... forever! Not for the better, unfortunately.   If I sound harsh on this episode, it's because it deserves it. As the penultimate episode of the season, with a cracker of a cliffhanger, it should be exciting and dramatic and full of tension. On paper it has all the elements to do just that, but in execution it's just a boring series of events happening without any real kind of sense of energy, excitement or even stakes in spite of all their efforts to make it out to be an extinction level event for the human race. It DOES have good moments. As mentioned, the Doctor doing a holo-chat with Ashad is a highlight, both further showcasing that Ashad was a monster prr-conversion, went insane as a result of his halted semi-conversion and has now apparently become a religious fanatic with a messiah complex after gaining the Cyberium. The Doctor gets some good digs in at him, distracts him, and gets in a good joke when she correctly diagnoses his complex mix of self-loathing and Cyber-imperatives warring with human emotions... and he agrees with her that she's right! But in its parts, as a whole, in the moment, in retrospect... it's not good. It's dull. It's boring. It's undramatic. It shouldn't be any of those things, and describing the basic plot you'd think it would be impossible not to make it at least somewhat entertaining. But it just continually lacks that certain spark, that something, that little bit of energy that helps carry you along and suspend your disbelief. But it IS an episode that might have been redeemed by a strong follow-up. We do not get a strong follow-up. Throughout the episode, there are also frequent interludes showing a young Irish foundling who grows up to be a police officer. The last of these shows him with a headset jammed onto his head as some kind of technological process is occurring. It stands completely apart from the rest of the episode and when the episode was over, most people agreed that given the headset jammed on his head, we were seeing a human mind undergoing the process of Cyber-Conversion, either their mind fighting with everything it had - or the machine trying to dull the victim - with the illusion of an idlyic life well spent doing good and dying accomplished. That was NOT what this was, it was something far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far stupider and more pointless. Speaking of stupid and pointless, there's one more episode this season to write up, and I am not looking forward to it, what's next is not only a boring episode but perhaps the most pointlessly dumb and unnecessary ones ever made. Chris Chibnall set out to make his stamp on Doctor Who history, and he succeeded, just not in the way he was hoping for.   I mean, come on! Index of Doctor Who Write-ups for Television Episodes/Big Finish Audio Stories. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Feb 28, 2024 |
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Feb 28, 2024 07:29
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I still don't know what the Cyberium is or does. It's supposed to have all the accumulated knowledge of the cybermen or something, but it seems like the only wisdom that was needed was "hey maybe we should reactivate the massive perfectly functional ship full of perfectly functional cybermen that we left lying around deactivated for no reason." Ashad chainsaws a cyberman so that that one pointless human can say "We're on a ship with a cyberman that makes other cybermen scream." That's it. That's the reason. His motivation is that Chibnall needed him to do this completely random thing so that Chibnall could use that line that he thought sounded cool and scary. I think I saw people speculate that chainsawing another cyberman was somehow what created the Death Particle, but I don't think there's any indication of that, just people trying to assemble some sort of connection between all the unrelated stuff that's been thrown together.
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Feb 28, 2024 08:20
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2house2fly posted:The actor who played Vinder was good. Jacob Anderson is fantastic as Louis in the Interview with the Vampire series.
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Feb 28, 2024 08:51
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lines posted:It's very hard to explain Line of Duty though because it makes very little sense. It's sort of like: "what if everyone in the British state who wasn't a Good Cop was a corrupt paedo criminal except, twist, possibly there are no good cops, unless there are". Somehow that doesn't really get to the heart of it. It makes about as much sense as Flux but there's no dog aliens so it coheres a little more. I've not seen Line of Duty but that makes perfect sense to me (except for the question of there being a Good Cop at all, I mean)
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Feb 28, 2024 09:29
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lines posted:I think the bit with the Grand Serpent is somewhat lost if you aren't aware that he played properly the best single villain on long-running UK cop conspiracy corruption thriller Line of Duty. He was also in the really very good Whitechapel as twins that thought they were the kids/reincarnation of Reggie and Ronnie Kray, and was really good at it. Man, I wish they'd continued that show it was fun and was getting really interesting.
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Feb 28, 2024 09:43
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Barry Foster posted:I've not seen Line of Duty but that makes perfect sense to me (except for the question of there being a Good Cop at all, I mean) Yes it's very ambivalent about whether Good Cops exist, the protagonists being internal affairs who mostly try and catch corrupt cops (this is how you can tell it's a fiction). But to a degree the final season was about how actually a) it's hopeless, b) either you corrupt yourself or resign because the system is broken, c) you can never truly Catch The Head Of Corruption because it's all rotten, d) sometimes there isn't an evil mastermind, sometimes stupid greedy people do things for short-term gain under your noses. People thought the message was pretty confusing but it seems clear enough to me.
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Feb 28, 2024 10:59
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The Flux has been survived... Three episodes left to survive then a palate cleanse of the Tennant specials rewatch
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Feb 28, 2024 11:15
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Whitechapel was such an odd show, they had to make out the area was a whole separate area of London, constantly towing the ‘spooky/mundane?’ line. The Grand Serpent didn’t seem to make much sense as a character, either. He was inferred to be the head of some huge space criminal organisation, but he was also the guy who had to go out and do the jobs himself?
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Feb 28, 2024 11:25
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The_Doctor posted:Whitechapel was such an odd show, they had to make out the area was a whole separate area of London, constantly towing the ‘spooky/mundane?’ line. I always get The Grand Serpent and Colony Sarff mixed up. Colony Sarff was rubbish, but at least he wasn't just a bland looking guy with a streak in his hair.
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Feb 28, 2024 11:36
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lines posted:I think the bit with the Grand Serpent is somewhat lost if you aren't aware that he played properly the best single villain on long-running UK cop conspiracy corruption thriller Line of Duty. He's that probation officer. You know the one.
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Feb 28, 2024 12:05
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lines posted:I think the bit with the Grand Serpent is somewhat lost if you aren't aware that he played properly the best single villain on long-running UK cop conspiracy corruption thriller Line of Duty. It really must just be the power of Chibnall because you're telling me that the actor who played the Grand Serpent has had memorable roles in other things and I just can't wrap my head around it.
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Feb 28, 2024 12:08
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The_Doctor posted:Whitechapel was such an odd show, they had to make out the area was a whole separate area of London, constantly towing the ‘spooky/mundane?’ line. I mean the final season was very much "this area of London is being hosed with by the literal devil" which is why I was sad it just stopped there.
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Feb 28, 2024 13:24
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PriorMarcus posted:It really must just be the power of Chibnall because you're telling me that the actor who played the Grand Serpent has had memorable roles in other things and I just can't wrap my head around it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Parkinson He's quite good! He does "dodgy geezer" well.
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Feb 28, 2024 13:44
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