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It’s weird having a Shiren where the music isn’t mediocre-to-bad.
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Feb 27, 2024 19:04
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Tempura Wizard posted:It’s weird having a Shiren where the music isn’t mediocre-to-bad. DS has a killer soundtrack courtesy of Koichi Sugiyama, before he lost his edge
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Feb 27, 2024 19:28
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The new shiren did a good job with spelling out mechanics.
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Feb 27, 2024 21:04
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Shiren 6 - cleared the main 31F dungeon after 6 attempts. Some dud runs where I couldn't find a weapon and/or a shield at all  behold the power of  https://i.imgur.com/E3KGHD1.mp4
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Feb 27, 2024 23:02
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Only got to the first town after a short session. One death cause I don't think I've ever seen those dang fish before. It is shiren and it is good.
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Feb 28, 2024 03:41
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Made it to floor 15 then was killed by a Metal Head. It's enjoyable so far. The environments are very easy on the eyes. Shiren 5 is pretty gorgeous sometimes, especially the villages, but I never liked most of the dungeon environment tiles. Floor layouts in 6 are similar to previous entries, but with more interesting greebles and visual touches. For example, foliage is actually 3D, so sometimes leaves or trees pop out from the edges of tiles. Lighting effects shine on character models, etc. The QoL additions are small but add up to a much more breezy experience. And the music is really good, just the correct flavor. Overall it just feels lovely to play and has great vibes. Time will tell if the balance is messy or whatever, but the core experience is definitely there.
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Feb 28, 2024 04:10
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I thought the 3D in Shiren 6 looked terrible when I first saw screenshots but it's grown on me a ton, looks pretty good -- like a crisper version of old 3DS games
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Feb 28, 2024 16:45
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jakaku down on the 11th attempt  probably 6-7 of those deaths were on the first 10 floors - compared to shiren 5, early game enemies (and enemies in general) are deadlier, but later game enemies are not as bad. nothing close to a nashagga or MC wizard, no escorts to desperately try to keep alive, and the final boss felt easier than 5's. to echo what everyone else has said, it's really fun to play. the intro/tutorial is very brisk, you're basically playing right away. lots of QoL improvements generally and they're not trying to keep the meat of the game away from you as much - e.g. mixers seem to be more common than ever, with a cutscene that explicitly spells out what they do, so it's very easy to get started on the runes. i ended up with a dragonkiller with the 3-way attack and confusion procs on hit sometimes. very strong for the main dungeon. the game also looks and sounds great. it's very moorish. if anyone was curious about shiren this is definitely the game to try. and if anyone had any doubt, there's definitely *some* post-game stuff in this one. idk if it will have the same kind of insane longevity that 5 had but otoh i didn't even get close to completing the post-game in that game so i'm not complaining.
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Feb 28, 2024 18:31
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Shiren 6 seems much more streamlined/easier than past games so far. The fast travel wagon makes it so you can chain events to unlock new dungeons right away and there seems to be less annoying monsters like Knaves early on except in specific side dungeons. The grind from Shiren 5 is reduced which is a good/bad thing (I enjoyed the grind) Kind of underwhelmed with the postgame dungeons Gyoru fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Feb 28, 2024 |
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Feb 28, 2024 21:22
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Shiren 6 is not, and will not be on PC right?
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Feb 28, 2024 21:41
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a PC version of 6 hasn't been announced, no. Wouldn't be surprised if it did get on steam eventually but that's purely speculation.
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Feb 28, 2024 22:00
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w00tmonger posted:Shiren 6 is not, and will not be on PC right?
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Feb 28, 2024 22:01
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good lord we've now had 5 daily content additions for Path of Achra in a row, this dev is wild
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Feb 28, 2024 22:07
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Pigbuster posted:good lord we've now had 5 daily content additions for Path of Achra in a row, this dev is wild I both love and hate it. I'm trying to win with a particular prestige (snakedancer) and I feel like I need to blank-slate rework my approach each time I start up the game because specifically the poison and life trees keep changing so often this month.
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Feb 28, 2024 22:45
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Anyone tried this Doomsday Hunters game?
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Feb 29, 2024 00:50
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An Eccentricity that is apparently about* to just get a fair bit better on most fronts: https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1175360/view/7314478499023680340
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Feb 29, 2024 00:53
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Sloppy posted:Anyone tried this Doomsday Hunters game? I kinda like it, it's janky in a charming way - very much harkens back to the specific era of sega genesis style pixel art, though the gameplay is closer to current action roguelites of various flavors You should be able to tell if you like it in the refund window I think
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Feb 29, 2024 00:57
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Looks like Spiritfall, the platformer fighter (aka Smash Bros) roguelite just had their 1.0 release. Looks pretty good to me, and tempting to jump in since it's currently just $15.
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Feb 29, 2024 04:09
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Really liking Shiren 6 so far. Lots of little improvements in the UI and logbook over 5 that feel very thoughtful, and the game itself is snappy and responsive. The balance changes are interesting, so far it feels like the combo of higher lethality and high health regen means there's more focus on individual dangerous situation and less on attrition? But I'll be interested to see how it plays out once I'm past the story and start doing the longer dungeons. Haven't beat the boss yet but I did rob a fortified shop with some great gear - the old burrowing + fortification + pinning staff combo still works great, even if they all have different names now. Also, the ingame achievements are back. Shiren 5 losing those across its ports was very tragic.
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Feb 29, 2024 06:34
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Sloppy posted:Anyone tried this Doomsday Hunters game? I liked it,but not enough to finish it. Love the visuals, was a bit put off by the isometric view often getting in the way of precision. Feels kinda overloaded while still being a bit underbaked. I could see someone really loving it though.
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Feb 29, 2024 06:53
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Snake Maze posted:Really liking Shiren 6 so far. Lots of little improvements in the UI and logbook over 5 that feel very thoughtful, and the game itself is snappy and responsive. The balance changes are interesting, so far it feels like the combo of higher lethality and high health regen means there's more focus on individual dangerous situation and less on attrition? But I'll be interested to see how it plays out once I'm past the story and start doing the longer dungeons. Haven't beat the boss yet but I did rob a fortified shop with some great gear - the old burrowing + fortification + pinning staff combo still works great, even if they all have different names now. Speaking of the logbook, I do miss the bizarre comic tone of Shiren 5's Shiren 5 logbook entry for "Mid Chintala" posted:There isn't a Small Chintala, so why is this one called a Mid Chintala? When they're "Mid", do they think they're the Chunsoft mascot? Grass Dude posted:"Somewhere in the world, there's a dog that makes grass grow where it pees. If I had that dog, I'd be invincible, right?" Pin Dude posted:In this world, there's a bird that runs around after getting punched. beer gas canister fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Feb 29, 2024 |
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Feb 29, 2024 07:28
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It's not about any particular game but man, I'm so loving sick of seeing these two screens in every. single. roguelite. that comes out.
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Feb 29, 2024 13:47
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have you tried getting a bigger monitor?
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Feb 29, 2024 13:56
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Pick 3: I never met@progression I didn't like
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Feb 29, 2024 15:19
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Snooze Cruise posted:have you tried getting a bigger monitor? I get the joke, but the underlying design problem in that post isn't the user's monitor, it's that either the games are being designed for phones, or worse, design limitations originally created by phone screen space concerns are just becoming so default that people imitate them unthinkingly. That said, I personally only really dislike the second one ("select 3 things randomly drawn from a pool instead of having full control over character progression!"). The first one just looks like a skill or tech tree that limits your overall choices at any given moment (while remaining deterministic) which is a nice compromise between the homogeneity of totally free-form point buy on one hand and linear progression on the other.
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Feb 29, 2024 15:33
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:That said, I personally only really dislike the second one ("select 3 things randomly drawn from a pool instead of having full control over character progression!"). The first one just looks like a skill or tech tree that limits your overall choices at any given moment (while remaining deterministic) which is a nice compromise between the homogeneity of totally free-form point buy on one hand and linear progression on the other. The second screen is the node-based map screen that's also ripped straight from Slay the Spire, just like the "choose one of three things" screen.
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Feb 29, 2024 15:41
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I was talking about deckbuilder roguelike designs with some gamedev friends, and I think I've finally managed to articulate the thing that bugs me about them: they're excessively modal. Consider: in every turn, the only thing you have to worry about is how to best deploy the cards in your hand. The only resources that persist between encounters are the deck itself and your health pool (and money, but it's only useful in shops, which are a separate mode). After the encounter, you get the rewards screen, which only has long-term strategic ramifications (because it's after the encounter, after all). There's no blending of the strategic layer and the tactical layer: the two are separated and never shall meet. You never permanently gain or remove cards in the middle of a fight, or are given a chance to spend money on relics, or do navigation on the encounter map. It's always either "you are in tactical combat, and the strategic view does not matter" or "you are making a strategic decision, and there are no tactics to consider". I'm not a purist, there's nothing wrong with some modality. But I find the strict separation to be dull. Compare to FTL, which is already a pretty stripped-down roguelike, with the node graph of encounters, limited resources to consider, etc. But in each fight, in addition to the immediate tactical considerations, you also have to decide whether it's worth spending missiles or drone parts, and which skills you want to be training on your crew. That's not much, but it still adds a lot to the feeling of the game. And to be clear: this is not a roguelike genre argument. This is a "what makes game design interesting to TMA" argument.
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Feb 29, 2024 15:45
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Setting up relics or juicing cards that gain permanent stats vs possibly taking dmg (or curses in some fights) by extending the fight is in Slay the Spire and I would argue it blends the two layers you've defined. CRAYON fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Feb 29, 2024 |
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Feb 29, 2024 15:59
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It's pretty common in a lot of deckbuilders to have cards and other resources that are used up permanently that serve the same role as missiles and drones in FTL, though? Slay the Spire has potions, for example.
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Feb 29, 2024 16:03
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I was talking about deckbuilder roguelike designs with some gamedev friends, and I think I've finally managed to articulate the thing that bugs me about them: they're excessively modal. Consider: in every turn, the only thing you have to worry about is how to best deploy the cards in your hand. The only resources that persist between encounters are the deck itself and your health pool (and money, but it's only useful in shops, which are a separate mode). After the encounter, you get the rewards screen, which only has long-term strategic ramifications (because it's after the encounter, after all). This isn't true of Slay the Spire and it's only partially true of many other games in the genre. Spire has Alchemise to give you potions to take forward and the three "side quest" cards that give permanent benefits if you kill with them. Astrea has an entire keyword centring on permanently altering your dice, and there are several games which give you a card that you can only use once in the entire run.
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Feb 29, 2024 16:03
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Yeah they may be separate most of the time in slay the spire but it's not "strict" because there are all the cards that have other effects like giving you money, generating potions, or gaining stats that make it tempting to try to hold off winning a fight, at the risk of losing more health, until you can get the effect. I do think that keeping individual fights separate from overall strategy most of the time is usually part of the mechanic/appeal of deckbuilders so if you don't like that I can understand not liking deckbuilders though. mystes fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Feb 29, 2024 |
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Feb 29, 2024 16:04
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CRAYON posted:Setting up relics or juicing cards that gain permanent stats vs possibly taking dmg by extending the fight is in StS and I would argue it blends the two layers you've defined. StS breaks basically all the assumptions laid out. Potions are both a strategic and tactical resource, and there are cards that provide permanent strategic resources as a reward for careful tactical play. It's still a good point in general, though, as these are all features which hardcore StS fans point to as a critical part of the game's depth. It's just less "this is a defining characteristic of this genre" and more "this is an often-underappreciated part of this genre, that needs very careful design consideration and crappier clones may drop the ball on."
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Feb 29, 2024 16:05
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There's also a bunch of relics that persist through fights and at the highest difficulty need to be accounted for - putting ink bottle on 8-9 and sundial on 2 every fight is a huge boon. E: somehow I missed someone else mentioning relics, oops
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Feb 29, 2024 16:06
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I was talking about deckbuilder roguelike designs with some gamedev friends, and I think I've finally managed to articulate the thing that bugs me about them: they're excessively modal. Consider: in every turn, the only thing you have to worry about is how to best deploy the cards in your hand. The only resources that persist between encounters are the deck itself and your health pool (and money, but it's only useful in shops, which are a separate mode). After the encounter, you get the rewards screen, which only has long-term strategic ramifications (because it's after the encounter, after all). To me this mainly shows that you've not encountered a lot of what's out there. Which makes sense, a lot of games that do cross-encounter things just plain aren't as good, because each added dimension of complexity makes the overall design harder. But even of the games that come up frequently in this thread, there's already examples that do what you mention, like Dawncaster, which both has a whole class mechanic built around adding stuff to your deck mid-encounter and permanent card modifications that can happen as part of the fight.
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Feb 29, 2024 16:19
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Osmosisch posted:To me this mainly shows that you've not encountered a lot of what's out there. Which makes sense, a lot of games that do cross-encounter things just plain aren't as good, because each added dimension of complexity makes the overall design harder. iirc Beneath Oresa has permanent card changes as well They're not wrong about the separation in general, but it's not something that bugs me all that much, partly because I feel like a wander the map circa 1990s mtg game I will not name is going to lean pretty hard into more rpg progression style mechanics and those tend to break deck based games entirely Deck games work better in more constrained settings specifically because 'build something degenerate' is the end goal of any competitive deck, so the longer a deck is allowed to be tuned, the more likely it tips over that broken line In general nailing balance in deck based games is absurdly difficult and I spend money on them knowing full well it's extremely unlikely they'll be well tuned past the initial fun stages of exploring the possibility spaces Midnight Suns actually had a pretty interesting take on this, specifically that your deck was quite small, but generally very powerful (and as ever, broken later), and so the deck mechanic there was mostly acting as a means of removing the OpTiMAL MaN problem, where in a typical tbs game action economy rules over all, by forcing you to potentially play suboptimal actions you expand the encounter variety organically (in theory, it wasn't flawless, but it was a good use of rng to attempt to solve a long standing problem in a lot of turn based games)
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Feb 29, 2024 16:30
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griftlands gave you significant rewards for squeezing as many permanent strategic advantages out of every fight as possible. as a consequence the fights take forever and the game loving sucks.
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Feb 29, 2024 16:31
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Hot deckbuilder of the moment Balatro has its tarot cards, and to a lesser degree its planet cards, whose benefits modify/enhance your deck. Normally you take them in shops between encounters, but you have opportunities to hold a couple in reserve. This can result in your making a suboptimal change to your held hand in the moment at the tactical level to win an encounter you otherwise might not have, or to continue holding those tarot cards in reserve for another opportunity that has better downstream benefits to your deck as a whole.
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Feb 29, 2024 16:43
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Foul Fowl posted:griftlands gave you significant rewards for squeezing as many permanent strategic advantages out of every fight as possible. as a consequence the fights take forever and the game loving sucks. Griftlands is p fun imo Not a huge amount of staying power ultimately, but it’s fun and gorgeous
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Feb 29, 2024 16:52
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Captain Foo posted:Griftlands is p fun imo I never finished a run because I got a little bored with it beforehand since, imho, the narrative focus doesn't really play nice with the card collecting, but yeah I liked it too. It's really the only game of its kind that put a ton of effort into visual flare and I liked that.
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Feb 29, 2024 16:56
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Captain Foo posted:Griftlands is p fun imo it's very very pretty but i really didn't vibe with it 
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Feb 29, 2024 17:09
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