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I don't know how y'all have the patience for some of this but I salute you. As promised, here's my first model ever, a 1980ish Jeep Honcho. Paint sucks for a miriad of reasons and decals are delicate as heck huh? One just plum fell off of a light while I was showing my wife, not to mention the license plate that lost a corner (which she wisely suggested I cover with a bunch of mud)     3D printed truck nutz have been distributed by the way. If you want your own, pm me. I only require something small and/or flat in return. ColonelJohnMatrix posted:I cannot assist you much in the discussion on steam engines or trains as I'm not into that. I know a bit about r/c construction equipment and a decent amount about r/c semi trucking though. It's amazing the level of complexity and detail you can in many r/c kits these days. The price for the super scale, niche stuff can get up there....but it's cheaper than full size! That's what I tell myself, anyways. I think we're supposed to be best friends? I settled for my jeep honcho model because it was cheap, but I specifically wanted to do a cab-over to match my grandpa's he used to deliver propane in the 70s, and settled on this because I could sorta make it match my blue Tacoma. That looks awesome. Edit: noooo I don't want to snipe this thread Friend fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Feb 28, 2024 |
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Feb 28, 2024 06:21
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| # ? May 16, 2024 16:27 |
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Snipes are like thread nuts.
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Feb 28, 2024 11:40
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Friend posted:I don't know how y'all have the patience for some of this but I salute you. First but hopefully not last! As corny as it sounds, every model you build is a learning experience. "XYZ thing is tricky - maybe there's a better way to do that. ABC technique worked well, but I think I can do it a little differently to get an even better effect." It's easy to get discouraged with some of this stuff, but don't. Maybe try a new technique on each model you build. You're already digging into some weathering so maybe expand on that if it interests you. Grab (or make!) some washes and start slopping those around and I think you'll be surprised with the results. For a little help with decals, grab some of this stuff: http://www.microscale.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MI-2. Paint that on after you get your decals in place and it will essentially melt the decal to the part. That will help it both stick more permanently and conform it to the underlying part. Then maybe once you get a few more kits built, your confidence will be up and you can find something to match your grandpa's truck. https://www.megahobby.com/categories/model-trucks/trucks-and-trailers.html
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Feb 28, 2024 14:58
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As another goon told me, "Learn from this kit and go make new mistakes on your next one!"
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Feb 28, 2024 16:11
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Warmachine posted:As another goon told me, "Learn from this kit and go make new mistakes on your next one!" Yep. Couldn't agree more. There are tons of fuckups on the Corsair I just posted. It's just that, in building models for 10 years, I've made most of those same fuckups enough times, that I've gotten really practiced at recovering from them. scalemodeling.txt I guess.
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Feb 29, 2024 03:12
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Local hobby shop is closing down. While the stuff is discounted the original prices were high enough that most of the models are above what I want to pay for them. I did get this, a reissue of a 1985 Kenworth W900. It was originally a snap together kit. I wanted to do a cab over engine but I think my wife would be hacked If I bought another one. 
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Feb 29, 2024 06:38
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That's a very nice Kenworth! I'm hoping to do a KW soon myself!
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Feb 29, 2024 14:42
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Boaz MacPhereson posted:First but hopefully not last! As corny as it sounds, every model you build is a learning experience. "XYZ thing is tricky - maybe there's a better way to do that. ABC technique worked well, but I think I can do it a little differently to get an even better effect." It's easy to get discouraged with some of this stuff, but don't. Maybe try a new technique on each model you build. You're already digging into some weathering so maybe expand on that if it interests you. Grab (or make!) some washes and start slopping those around and I think you'll be surprised with the results. Yeah most of the frustration was my impatience, gluing some of the pieces together when I should have painted first. That and an inability to paint details well with the tools I had, but I'm looking forward to starting a new one. Definitely want to try with another cheap car/truck and try to make it look neater before I tackle a big semi. Might even get an airbrush, I had no idea they were so cheap. That said, when it comes to model reissues, is there any advantage to getting a more recent one? This Peterbilt was created in 1970, and there is a 2012 version, a 2017 version with Coke decals, and a 2023 version with Coors. If I don't give a poo poo about the decals, should I just save money and go for the older ones or will there be some level of QC improvement by getting a more recent one? Seems like a stupid question but some comments on these models say it sucks and it's impossible to build and others say the opposite, and one review of the 2012 showed a ton of flashing but an unboxing of the 2023 looked perfect.
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Feb 29, 2024 17:52
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gently caress those truck models are cool.
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Feb 29, 2024 18:45
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If it was me, I'd just buy a cheaper old one. Those semi truck re-releases can be a crapshoot whether its a newer one or older. I've had great luck with the Ertl Blueprinter re-releases as even if they are older molds and you have some flash to take care of, the kits were quality to begin with with fantastic instructions. It's not like that with many AMT semi trucks, I've found out. I've heard that kit is kinda tricky, but if you want to build it go for it. It's probably just annoying in some parts, worst case. In seeing how your Honcho turned out, I'm sure you've got the skill to figure out any crappy building segments of the Pete. I am currently building an IH Paystar 5000 dump truck kit, though I'm not using the dump bed and making it as a logging truck. It's been a fantastic build so far- extremely enjoyable. Even with some flash to clean up. 
ColonelJohnMatrix fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Feb 29, 2024 |
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Feb 29, 2024 18:48
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Friend posted:Yeah most of the frustration was my impatience, gluing some of the pieces together when I should have painted first. That and an inability to paint details well with the tools I had, but I'm looking forward to starting a new one. Definitely want to try with another cheap car/truck and try to make it look neater before I tackle a big semi. Might even get an airbrush, I had no idea they were so cheap. Unless Scalemates lists the release as "new tool," they're still running tooling from ages ago. So, the plastic will be identical in every boxing. I suppose an individual shot of a sprue could end up with more flash than another, but at the end of the day, old kits just don't build as well as new ones. p.s. I got your nuts and I'm still trying to think of a good thing to send in return. Thanks for the nuts. <3
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Feb 29, 2024 21:40
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Why is it that Tamiya tooling from 35 years ago (like the Nissan R32 GTR or 300ZX or even older stuff like a lot of their tank models) still holds up so well compared to other brands like Revell or AMT? Do the molds need to be changed out periodically and some brands don't do that?
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Feb 29, 2024 21:58
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Injection molds do need to be renewed periodically because they can wear out, yes. They are subjected to high heat and fairly substantial pressure as well, and over time that can cause warping and wear. While the price has come down, producing molds and the machinery to power the process for injection molded plastic parts has also been very expensive and really only makes sense when one is manufacturing on a large enough scale. I get the sense that Tamiya has always made replacing worn components and updating tooling a priority, and it might come down to the speed with which new technologies were adopted and put to use as well-- injection molding is a well established process in its most basic terms but things like computer assisted design have definitely impacted the industry over the past few decades and it wouldn't surprise me if Tamiya was investing in its technology as well as its infrastructure.
Fearless fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Feb 29, 2024 |
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Feb 29, 2024 22:03
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What also makes it worse is when you have kits that kinda sucked from a design standpoint originally, like many of the AMT repops. Most Tamiya stuff seems extremely well thought out and much more precise across the board as originally designed. All of their r/c stuff is like that- even if some of the actual r/c models they produce are WOEFULLY outdated (many of them by design as they are retro re-releases), they still typically build like an absolute dream.
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Feb 29, 2024 22:38
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Charliegrs posted:Why is it that Tamiya tooling from 35 years ago (like the Nissan R32 GTR or 300ZX or even older stuff like a lot of their tank models) still holds up so well compared to other brands like Revell or AMT? Do the molds need to be changed out periodically and some brands don't do that? Because Revell (US) and AMT were always the hottest, wettest, stankiest garbage model kits.
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Feb 29, 2024 22:38
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:Because Revell (US) and AMT were always the hottest, wettest, stankiest garbage model kits. Gospel.
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Mar 1, 2024 01:57
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I seem to remember in the US in the 80s, the only options for war planes were Revell or Monogram. Revell was poo poo, and Monogram were the good ones. Is that my clouded memory or is that how it was?
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Mar 1, 2024 03:44
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I was a loyal Monogram customer.
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Mar 1, 2024 04:17
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Then Revell bought monogram and all was lost.
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Mar 1, 2024 09:34
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The material the moulds are made out of too also matters, the better places make theirs ouit of the highest quality steel which means they last for decades and hundreds of thousands of runs before issues creep in, while cheaper places use cheaper steel that wears out faster, and limited run kits use aluminium because it's super cheap but maybe lasts a thousand runs before the wear and tear is noticeable. Cheap doesn't just mean the cost of the steel either, it also means the cost of the machining time required to make them, because harder steels take a lot longer to carve.
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Mar 1, 2024 10:49
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The molds are so expensive and so valuable. One of the garage kit companies wanted to reissue some old 60's monster kits, and they found some of the molds had been dumped in the ocean or a lake or something. It was cheaper to go and recover the molds from underwater than it was to make new molds.
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Mar 1, 2024 16:24
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And if you're willing to go cheap on molds, it ups the chances you're willing to cut corners on quality assurance throughout the process and issue kits containing naught but poo poo. E: The very first plastic model I built as a kid was a Tamiya Ju-87 and I built it with Dad. It's one of my fondest memories. I've had a soft spot for Tamiya ever since but I also built quite a lot of Italerei armour and AMT-ERTL Star Trek models. I don't remember which kits soured me on them, but Revell was one I always tried to avoid. Fearless fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Mar 1, 2024 |
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Mar 1, 2024 17:26
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:The molds are so expensive and so valuable. One of the garage kit companies wanted to reissue some old 60's monster kits, and they found some of the molds had been dumped in the ocean or a lake or something. It was cheaper to go and recover the molds from underwater than it was to make new molds. One of the few times in history where getting mold from the lake doesn't result in a doctor's visit and some ointments
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Mar 1, 2024 18:09
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What is the rough break even point for a mold in regards to models needing to be sold? I wonder if some of the really niche products ever recoup their cost, as I don't know how many people are buying weird stuff like WW2 bridge vehicles and ammunition sleppers or just the really weird esoteric stuff. Like how many people would buy this? 
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Mar 1, 2024 20:03
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IncredibleIgloo posted:What is the rough break even point for a mold in regards to models needing to be sold? I wonder if some of the really niche products ever recoup their cost, as I don't know how many people are buying weird stuff like WW2 bridge vehicles and ammunition sleppers or just the really weird esoteric stuff. I have a WW1 horse-drawn kitchen  I suspect the main customers are diorama builders but even then, yeah, it's kinda tough to imagine. Maybe they have the junior-most designer make weird poo poo when they need to train a new mold maker, and if it sells it sells?
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Mar 1, 2024 22:05
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Obviously the cost of a mold varies depending on size, quality of metal etc but I think a few years ago it was something like £20-30k to cut a single tool. Now imagine that most kits have multiple frames so may require multiple tools and the price spirals. That's why manufacturers usually include the parts for later releases on the sprue of the initial release, and then just rebox it later with different decals and manual. I believe that Airfix said they don't break even on any of their kits until they release the second boxing, usually a year after the initial release (e.g. their recent Black Buck Vulcan boxing, or their 1/72 Buccaneer S2B). Hasegawa's investment in high quality tools in the 80s has paid dividends as they're able to continue releasing reboxings of those kits 35 years later with little drop in quality. Decals are by far the most expensive part of a kit once a tool has been paid off.
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Mar 1, 2024 22:11
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IncredibleIgloo posted:What is the rough break even point for a mold in regards to models needing to be sold? I wonder if some of the really niche products ever recoup their cost, as I don't know how many people are buying weird stuff like WW2 bridge vehicles and ammunition sleppers or just the really weird esoteric stuff. Could be useful for a diorama https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyZK8k4gzyg
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Mar 1, 2024 22:33
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As someone who used to be very proud of his model building but hasn't actually built a model in about 25 years - my humble opinion is that your Jeep is absolutely loving fantastic, it has lots of character and is an excellent start. You'll only get better and better as you build more things and learn more techniques.
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Mar 1, 2024 23:04
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tidal wave emulator posted:Obviously the cost of a mold varies depending on size, quality of metal etc but I think a few years ago it was something like £20-30k to cut a single tool. Now imagine that most kits have multiple frames so may require multiple tools and the price spirals. That's why manufacturers usually include the parts for later releases on the sprue of the initial release, and then just rebox it later with different decals and manual. Is that cost based on them utilizing a third party to create the mold, which they then receive and use? Or do most model manufacturers have in house CNC machines to cut their own molds? I would have to imagine all the Chinese based manufacturers have their own CNC machines to make their own molds, but maybe European manufacturers often don't? Oddly enough when I worked in the corrugated box industry the die cut cylinders were one of the most expensive parts of developing a box line. I don't remember exactly, but I think most of the big packaging corps had a specific die cut division that would make the dies and send them out to factories, but I have been out of the biz for a decade now. 
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Mar 2, 2024 00:18
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I forget if I commented on the Jeep or not but that is a really nice build and you did great! In re: to the mold making discussion, I actually do know someone who I "think" used to work for Revell/AMT. I'm going to reach out to him to see if he has anymore information to add to this discussion as I'd assume that he has quite a bit.
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Mar 2, 2024 01:59
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IncredibleIgloo posted:Is that cost based on them utilizing a third party to create the mold, which they then receive and use? Or do most model manufacturers have in house CNC machines to cut their own molds? I would have to imagine all the Chinese based manufacturers have their own CNC machines to make their own molds, but maybe European manufacturers often don't? I think you're right Chinese model makers are either vertically integrated, or the model making division is just a small part of a larger injection moulding business. It's always difficult to find out about the way those companies work as they often don't even have websites, I'd love to see a big chart outline all their connections - I believe there's larger conglomerates like Trumpeter and Meng (they used to do the tooling for Wingnut Wings) which then have lots of subsidiary brands but they're all effectively the same company. For European kitmakers it probably depends, some manufacturers might have their own toolmaking capabilities (Eduard maybe?), while others outsource. Small short-run manufacturers might work more locally with cheaper facilities making aluminium tools that will only last for a thousand presses. Airfix's tooling and injection moulding is produced in India which they've talked about the issues with in the past as there's slow turnarounds with sending test frames etc, and the quality of plastic has been quite soft and poor until recently. They recently started using a British toolmaker for their 1/24 spitfire http://www.plastch.com/ and there's been an improvement in plastic quality too so maybe they've changed their suppliers. There was a brief period where Airfix had Trumpeter do their tooling and injection moulding (e.g. for their 1/72 Nimrod).
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Mar 2, 2024 12:43
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tidal wave emulator posted:Decals are by far the most expensive part of a kit once a tool has been paid off. Yeah there's like $0.15 of plastic used per frame or something silly small, the retail costs are all about recovery to pay for the tooling. Pretty sure most of the companies have their tools made as contract orders from CNC shops (all the wargaming miniature places do it this way), but then take them to a Chinese plastic factory to do a 10 thousand production run in the down time that factory has when it's switching between 10 million unit runs of two different light switches.
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Mar 2, 2024 14:50
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NTRabbit posted:Yeah there's like $0.15 of plastic used per frame or something silly small, the retail costs are all about recovery to pay for the tooling. Hope there is not a mix up and I get a novelty light switch where the toggle is the space marine's wang.
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Mar 2, 2024 21:02
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Just stopping by to say gently caress length and link tracks. Going to just get aftermarket for the next kit.
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Mar 2, 2024 22:01
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stealie72 posted:Just stopping by to say gently caress length and link tracks. Going to just get aftermarket for the next kit. I have tried link and length a couple of times and each has been a total mess. Quicktracks has quickly become my first stop for aftermarket tracks. They assemble very nicely and look great. I hope they keep expanding the variety. 
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Mar 2, 2024 22:31
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stealie72 posted:Just stopping by to say gently caress length and link tracks. Going to just get aftermarket for the next kit. Link and length can be annoying, but there is no style of track worse than a bigass sprue of multi piece links that are attached via one of the surfaces that have to fit together. I hate it so much. I bought a Trumpeter kit of a Russian laser tank and check this poo poo out: 
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Mar 3, 2024 16:31
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I'll take link and length over multi-part indy link any day. Convenience trumps tedium.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:58
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i like link and length when they give you an axle alignment tool like tamiya usually does. otherwise something ends up slightly out of whack and ruins the whole look in my experience
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Mar 3, 2024 17:01
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Blue Footed Booby posted:Link and length can be annoying, but there is no style of track worse than a bigass sprue of multi piece links that are attached via one of the surfaces that have to fit together. I hate it so much. I bought a Trumpeter kit of a Russian laser tank and check this poo poo out: Not just one piece per link but multiple pieces of tedium. Edit: I got the same thing on a Hobby Boss kit, same soft brown plastic and the links need sanding on multiple sides due to poor fit. I gave up about 1/3 of the way through therunningman fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Mar 3, 2024 |
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Mar 3, 2024 17:26
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| # ? May 16, 2024 16:27 |
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The hobby shop is closing in a week and dropped their prices to 50% off so I picked up a AMT Mack Cab over engine truck. It's a lot more detailed than the Kenworth but part of that is splitting up objects into as many component pieces as they could. The worst example is a bunch of hoses that could have been molded in one piece but are now a 2-4 badly fitting pieces.
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Mar 3, 2024 19:17
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