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Trump would probably do things like: -encourage Netanyahu to bomb and shoot without concern for civilian life -embrace, push for a ban on Palestinians entering the US and/or try to expel Palestinians already here. Express vicious contempt toward Palestinian citizens, leading to more violence like what we've already seen -directly attack Iran -provide zero humanitarian assistance to Gaza and the West Bank. Biden withdrew from UNWRA which is horrible, Trump would do that from day 1 of the war and withdraw USAID entirely. Biden's use of his presidential powers and platform has been abhorrent but if you think it couldn't be much worse then that's just poverty of imagination. And if you think Trump wouldn't do awful things that Biden hasn't done, you're forgetting the years 2017-2021. Trump would also say stupid dual-loyalty poo poo that would be very bad for American Jews. Biden's "not a Jew in the world would be safe if not for Israel" line was dumb, but Trump says the stuff that really fuels antisemitism, like that all Jews are either "loyal" to Israel or ought to be. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Feb 29, 2024 |
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Feb 29, 2024 21:17
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Orthanc6 posted:Legit I could see him try to push for #1, he might not succeed in making much difference but he'd try. And definitely he'd do more sporadic bombing, especially in response to Houthis attacks on shipping. It's honestly possible he'd help Israel attack specific targets in Lebanon. the joke is that Biden has done all of those things already Civilized Fishbot posted:
this is a joke right? Israel is blocking aid from entering and just massacred over a hundred people who were able to reach aid trucks. Biden is going to do nothing to ensure Gazans receive aid.
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Feb 29, 2024 21:17
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punishedkissinger posted:this is a joke right? Israel is blocking aid from entering and just massacred over a hundred people who were able to reach aid trucks. Biden is going to do nothing to ensure Gazans receive aid. I'm not saying Biden's been anything other than a monster. It is a fact that between Oct 7 and the end of 2023, the US delivered tons of food, medical supplies, etc to Gaza - under Trump this would not have happened because Biden and Trump have different public image concerns. Obviously much of this aid was prevented from reaching needy people because of Israel's horrible crimes. I don't think 100% of it was, so it would be worse if Trump were president and prevented the aid from being delivered. Here is a specific delivery of food aid that under Trump would not have taken place: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-official-arrives-egypt-with-aid-gaza-2023-12-05/ Again Biden has been horrible, horrible, evil in his treatment of the Palestinians. Trump would very obviously replicate each and every one of Biden's cruelties while expressing many new and very dangerous ones, particularly toward Palestinian-Americans, whose welfare is obviously intimately connected to that of Palestinians in Palestine.
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Feb 29, 2024 21:31
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I think materially there wouldn't be any difference in the conflict whether Trump or Biden was in power. The only difference is people would be more comfortable protesting Trump and the liberals/democrats would support it.
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Feb 29, 2024 21:38
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:If he was president, the Democrats would have to at least pretend to try and oppose him. Yeah, this is the big thing for me. It's not about whether Trump would be better or worse on this, but about what the public reaction to his actions would be. I am constantly frustrated that so many democrats and liberals, who should be ardently opposed to facilitating genocide, are indifferent, apologetic, or even supportive of Biden doing exactly that. If Trump were in the White House and doing and saying the same things as Biden or worse, I feel extremely confident that the public backlash would be significantly more united and overwhelming. I can't exactly prove that, but I doubt anyone here wants to argue that liberals would be making the same excuses for Trump. Paradoxically, while Trump may want to do far worse than Biden, Biden is actually able to get away with far worse, because the people who should be opposing this are fractured. Yes, Trump tried to ban Muslims from immigrating to the US. But you know what stopped that? People getting out into the streets to protest it.
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Feb 29, 2024 21:38
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Marenghi posted:I think materially there wouldn't be any difference in the conflict whether Trump or Biden was in power. This would have to go against everything Trump has said and done in the past, I'm not sure the obsession with pretending Trump hasn't said and done the things he has in order to make Biden appear worse than he already is. He is already bad on Israel you don't need to constantly exaggerate and make poo poo up to make it seem even worse.
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Feb 29, 2024 21:39
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socialsecurity posted:This would have to go against everything Trump has said and done in the past, I'm not sure the obsession with pretending Trump hasn't said and done the things he has in order to make Biden appear worse than he already is. He is already bad on Israel you don't need to constantly exaggerate and make poo poo up to make it seem even worse. What have people said about Biden that's an exaggeration or made up? What have people pretended Trump didn't do? Darth Walrus posted:Casualty estimates are possibly in the triple-digits, and here's what Ben-Gvir had to say about it, since someone was asking for clearly-stated genocidal intent: Israel must be destroyed. A settler-colonial ethnostate should not exist, and this kind of poo poo will keep happening while it does. Esran fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Feb 29, 2024 |
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Feb 29, 2024 21:42
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Fister Roboto posted:Yes, Trump tried to ban Muslims from immigrating to the US. But you know what stopped that? People getting out into the streets to protest it. No it didn't lmao. He didn't direct his DoJ to reverse course because enough people blocked enough traffic and he got worried about his image or public sentiment. The courts blocked the first version of it but then upheld a revision, partly because of who he put on SCOTUS. It wasn't until Biden got in office that it was reversed and Biden was against it from the start. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_v._Hawaii There are many examples where "direct action gets the goods" but that is definitively not one of them. I don't know if Trump would have made it materially worse, it's hard to see how that would happen unless he committed US military assets directly or something else unhinged like that.
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Feb 29, 2024 21:47
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Fister Roboto posted:Yes, Trump tried to ban Muslims from immigrating to the US. But you know what stopped that? People getting out into the streets to protest it. That's not how I remember it. As I remember it - and it lines up with quick Wikipedia-skimming I just did - Trump implemented the ban quickly, it got repeatedly struck down/altered by judicial rulings, and finally he achieved a version that the Supreme Court approved, which lasted until Biden took office. I disagree with "Biden, Biden is actually able to get away with far worse." What, specifically, has Biden gotten away with that Trump wouldn't be able to get away with? Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Feb 29, 2024 |
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Feb 29, 2024 21:48
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:If he was president, the Democrats would have to at least pretend to try and oppose him. This. It feels awful to say it, but if loving Trump had been in power, at least some democrats would likely have found a bit of a spine to oppose this, and Europe in particular might drop the thing altogether rather than be a direct accomplice to Don&Bibi's snickering bloodbath. But Biden's folksy rictus and "Um, we're working on it, folks! Aaaanytime now! Boy howdy, but we're talking to their guys" delaying act just gives everyone cover to look the other way and keep the bombs and cash flowing.
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Feb 29, 2024 22:11
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socialsecurity posted:This would have to go against everything Trump has said and done in the past, I'm not sure the obsession with pretending Trump hasn't said and done the things he has in order to make Biden appear worse than he already is. He is already bad on Israel you don't need to constantly exaggerate and make poo poo up to make it seem even worse. Did you quote the wrong person. Where did I say Trump would be better than Biden. The only thing worse is a lot more people are accepting the genocide or supporting it because the Democratic party is. Were Trump in power I have no doubt the Democrats would at least pretend to oppose him. Which is better than fully backing the genocide as they currently are.
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Feb 29, 2024 22:14
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Marenghi posted:Did you quote the wrong person. Where did I say Trump would be better than Biden. The only thing worse is a lot more people are accepting the genocide or supporting it because the Democratic party is. Were Trump in power I have no doubt the Democrats would at least pretend to oppose him. Which is better than fully backing the genocide as they currently are. Democrats pretending to care about Israel's actions doesn't really help anyone in Gaza. Trump sending in US troops or providing even more aid like he has said he wants to do would be materially worse for the genocide.
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Feb 29, 2024 22:15
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Democratic voters would protest more were their party not currently supporting this genocide. Trump sending troops into the area would be a disaster and once a US soldier gets killed by Hamas it would turn into a Vietnam. The public pressure to end it would be much greater.
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Feb 29, 2024 22:25
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Marenghi posted:Democratic voters would protest more were their party not currently supporting this genocide. Trump, famously a leader responds to public pressure by giving in to the demands and not by doubling down or taking a new crazy action. If the basically daily crowds around Markey and Warren pressuring them to stop supporting Israel I've seen and been a part of haven't at this point gotten them to even vote against the aid package, I don't know how you think trump would be more amenable to persuasion. E: Does anyone have a single example of Trump bowing to external pressure? Kagrenak fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Feb 29, 2024 |
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Feb 29, 2024 22:29
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I think trying to speculate who would back a genocide more is kind of useless, it's clear at this point that both Israel and America must be stopped. Whatever can make that happen should be supported.
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Feb 29, 2024 22:36
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Is there any decent evidence as to the amount of bombs being dropped that are from the US?
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Feb 29, 2024 23:20
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Jaxyon posted:Is there any decent evidence as to the amount of bombs being dropped that are from the US? You might just have to work backwards from reports on purchases and military aid. Someday maybe I'll get to that (and humanitarian aid) but I'm barely able to half assedly keep up on the water situation rn. which is currently at "big problem for cleanliness and illness"
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Feb 29, 2024 23:30
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Jaxyon posted:Is there any decent evidence as to the amount of bombs being dropped that are from the US? I mean Austin just earlier stated we supplied them with 21,000 "precision guided munitions" since 7 Oct. I've been a little skeptical in the past of the full extent of Israel's reliance on our arms but the evidence has become much clearer that they need us to keep this level of intensity going imo. Without our shipments they would likely have to mostly rely on domestic 155mm artillery, which seems to be the main ordinance they make themselves. https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2024-02-29/pentagon-walks-back-austins-gaza-casualty-figures Kagrenak fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Mar 1, 2024 |
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Mar 1, 2024 00:04
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As an FYI, there’s an image going around Twitter of a Palestinian prisoner the Israelis ran over with a tank, and it might genuinely be the worst thing I’ve ever seen, so, be careful: And here is how the Flour Massacre is being reported, in case anyone expected otherwise: https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1763187530474655880 https://twitter.com/SanaSaeed/status/1763246605468090656 Nucleic Acids fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Mar 1, 2024 |
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Mar 1, 2024 00:08
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Nucleic Acids posted:As an FYI, there’s an image going around Twitter of a Palestinian prisoner the Israelis ran over with a tank, and it might be the worst thing I’ve ever seen. Getting off of Twitter around the start of the Ukraine war was one of the best things I've done for my mental health. Even before Musk and the Israeli perpetrated genocide the amount of unwarned gore was high and I can't imagine how bad it is now with less filters and even more horror in the world. The NYTimes headline is different now e: hmm attachment seems to be broken Kagrenak fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Mar 1, 2024 |
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Mar 1, 2024 00:14
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https://twitter.com/IsraeliPM/status/1763340289656389707 The war crimes will continue until Israel gets what they want
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Mar 1, 2024 00:18
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Biden: Talks are going well folks, I'm reining them in, peace by monday! Bibi: gently caress all of y'all, the USA is our biiiitch! Free ride, baby!
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Mar 1, 2024 00:25
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Testekill posted:https://twitter.com/IsraeliPM/status/1763340289656389707 But what Israel wants IS war crimes.
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Mar 1, 2024 00:28
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Testekill posted:https://twitter.com/IsraeliPM/status/1763340289656389707 this entire thread is deeply horrifying despite not being graphic at all, everything between the lines is extremely loving bad
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Mar 1, 2024 00:44
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Google Jeb Bush posted:this entire thread is deeply horrifying despite not being graphic at all, everything between the lines is extremely loving bad It really does just enforce that it wasn't about and has never been about getting the hostages back. It's entirely about using October 7th as an excuse to permanently crush the Gaza Strip and the USA signing off on everything that they have been doing.
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Mar 1, 2024 01:24
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Another obvious thing is that Israel would try to embarrass the US after Biden shot his mouth off about a ceasefire. I think this puts to rest the fiction about behind the scenes pressure.
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Mar 1, 2024 01:29
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I mean if the Biden administration doesn't respond post haste to outline concrete negative consequences for something like this they're conceding that there is no line Israel can possibly cross and lose American support
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Mar 1, 2024 01:48
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The NYT is continuing its stellar reporting on Palestine https://twitter.com/SanaSaeed/status/1763366383276974201
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Mar 1, 2024 03:14
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rscott posted:I mean if the Biden administration doesn't respond post haste to outline concrete negative consequences for something like this they're conceding that there is no line Israel can possibly cross and lose American support I feel like this was already pretty obvious
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Mar 1, 2024 03:26
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brugroffil posted:The NYT is continuing its stellar reporting on Palestine Including that headline in the summary of the day's events today is despicable. The article they link to is not as bad though and describes a real problem so is worth a quick read. The crux of it is that Israel isn't allowing anywhere near enough aid and that their campaign has completely eliminated any semblance of civil government in Northern Gaza: NYTimes posted:Since the start of the war, few aid trucks carrying food have reached the Gaza Strip’s devastated north, setting off a widespread hunger crisis. Here's the WFP statement about the pause of North Gaza aid: https://www.wfp.org/news/un-food-agency-pauses-deliveries-north-gaza world food programme posted:ROME – The UN World Food Programme (WFP) is pausing deliveries of life-saving food aid to northern Gaza until conditions are in place that allow for safe distributions.
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Mar 1, 2024 04:14
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brugroffil posted:The NYT is continuing its stellar reporting on Palestine Wasn't Israel targeting Palestinian police officers (because they're Hamas)
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Mar 1, 2024 04:49
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Imagine being a city comptroller in Gaza right now.
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Mar 1, 2024 05:28
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brugroffil posted:The NYT is continuing its stellar reporting on Palestine It's absolutely true that growing lawlessness is cutting off aid to North Gaza - a flagrant war-criminal state is laying seige to it and it's backed up by basically the whole First World. It's catastrophic level of lawlessness. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Mar 1, 2024 |
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Mar 1, 2024 06:07
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Testekill posted:https://twitter.com/IsraeliPM/status/1763340289656389707 So, like, can America stop giving them weapons now? Israel has made it very clear they are going to be using those weapons for genocide. That's been clear for months and now they've put out a definitive "we will continue to commit genocide, we will not stop." statement so at the very least can America stop giving them new weapons to fire at unarmed citizens?
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Mar 1, 2024 06:26
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:So, like, can America stop giving them weapons now? https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1762931742841741368 America can't just tell other countries what to do, OK? We're just a smol bean, we're just a little guy. It's genuinely insulting that they expect people to believe this.
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Mar 1, 2024 07:33
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National Parks posted:Wasn't Israel targeting Palestinian police officers (because they're Hamas) Yes, you remember correctly, they were targeted using that exact tenuous Hamas connection. One of the NY Times articles about food convoys mentioned that they were initially escorted by Gaza police officers, but the IDF kept attacking them, so now the convoys travel without police escort. This, in turn, leaves the convoys vulnerable to opportunistic theft by starving Gazans, which is a completely understandable reaction to, y'know, starving, but also means that convoys aren't making it to their delivery points. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/21/world/middleeast/gaza-aid-convoys-ambush.html?smid=url-share
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Mar 1, 2024 07:36
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Fister Roboto posted:https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1762931742841741368 That explanation doesn't even make sense in context, can't America also make sovereign decisions about what countries it gives weapons to? Like, the absolute bare minimum here is to let Israel keep making sovereign decisions, but not indefinitely supply them with a bottomless amount explosives.
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Mar 1, 2024 08:06
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You're absolutely right. It's because they support the genocide and hope to see it finished.
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Mar 1, 2024 08:13
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More and more people are learning that the US are, in fact, The Baddies.
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Google Jeb Bush posted:this entire thread is deeply horrifying despite not being graphic at all, everything between the lines is extremely loving bad You really don't have to be graphic to become deeply horrifying, as far as this subject is concerned. 
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