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When I started my last job, the job description was 8 bullet points. When I left, it was 4 whole pages worth. All that extra stuff was our group rising to the occasion, then that occasion becoming our regular work. During COVID half the people left, so I guess it worked out in the end.
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Feb 29, 2024 20:43
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Outrail posted:Or they see something broken that will create a bigger problem if it's not dealt with, it'll take five minutes and save a huge amount of time, but they just ignore it and don't even bother mentioning it to anyone. There's an eternal struggle in many workplaces where stopping to clean up after someone else teaches them to keep passing you their work, or the boss to add it to your duties. It's tragic, especially since I agree with you, but sometimes people suck.
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Feb 29, 2024 20:46
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If you're doing someone else's job without getting their pay too, then you're the stupid poo poo at someone's work.
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Feb 29, 2024 20:49
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Doomykins posted:There's an eternal struggle in many workplaces where stopping to clean up after someone else teaches them to keep passing you their work, or the boss to add it to your duties. It's tragic, especially since I agree with you, but sometimes people suck. They get paid the same if they fix it or not. Why should they bother fixing an issue that's not part of the job description? The are there to do a job. The job they were given. Not to fix the mistakes of others. If they were there to fix poo poo they would be tasked to and paid for fixing poo poo. Don't blame the workers for not doing management's job and don't blame them when they don't fix poo poo. Not their job.
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Feb 29, 2024 20:51
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There's been plenty of times we've alerted a team to an issue only for it to not be fixed that sometimes the better strategy is to notify the responsible team then just... Let it go. Do nothing. Then one day an exec gets affected by whatever the issue is and then we just point them to the team that owns whatever wasn't getting fixed and say "They might have better insight to this". It might take a while to get to that point, but hoo boy, when it does, that poo poo gets unfucked fast.
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Feb 29, 2024 20:59
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satanic splash-back posted:If you're doing someone else's job without getting their pay too, then you're the stupid poo poo at someone's work. this so loving hard. dont work cheap and dont work free. if its not in your job description dont "just do it" to be a team player or you own it and its going to be expected of you.
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Feb 29, 2024 21:09
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Desert Bus posted:They get paid the same if they fix it or not. Why should they bother fixing an issue that's not part of the job description? The are there to do a job. The job they were given. Not to fix the mistakes of others. If they were there to fix poo poo they would be tasked to and paid for fixing poo poo. Don't blame the workers for not doing management's job and don't blame them when they don't fix poo poo. Not their job. Because orgs that have too many people with that attitude collapse and now nobody has a job? There's a lot of grey zone between 'ill help out where needed' and 'gently caress you it's not my job'. This is why I put '...and assist in other tasks subject to organizational needs.' in job descriptions and expect people to be a little bit reasonable and flexible, and explain this during the interview. I'm not expecting people to work for free.
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Feb 29, 2024 21:21
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Outrail posted:Because orgs that have too many people with that attitude collapse and now nobody has a job? There's a lot of grey zone between 'ill help out where needed' and 'gently caress you it's not my job'. wasnt talking about you FYI but when dumbfuck mcgee fucks up for the umpteenth time and you have to once again janitor up the mess its completely resonable to be like yeah gently caress that guy im not cleaning up another completely avoidable mess again get rid of them or at least make them publicly apologize and make them do better.
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Feb 29, 2024 21:28
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If it's not really worse than the rest of my job, will save me future annoyance, and I get the same fixed salary no matter what I do or don't? I'll go out of my way to smooth things out. Besides, we're a small group and there's no benefit to making things harder for each other. For a lot of things it's not that we're unwilling to wait/nudge the right department into handling it, it's more that research groups are run like Scrapyard Wars minus the behind the scenes cheats. If we don't fix it there is nobody. We do actually have an ok budget for new and replacement gear, but it's not unlimited and delivery times are often horrid.
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Feb 29, 2024 21:35
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You know, that's overselling it. The group leaders are genuinely fine with spending money to fix things and I shouldn't make it sound like they're not. But sometimes I'm still fine with dropping what I'm doing to go poke the IonTorrent and IonReporter instead of waiting for a ThermoFisher tech.
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Feb 29, 2024 21:46
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TehRedWheelbarrow posted:wasnt talking about you FYI Yeah ultimately this is about hiring competent people.
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Feb 29, 2024 22:02
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Computer viking posted:You know, that's overselling it. The group leaders are genuinely fine with spending money to fix things and I shouldn't make it sound like they're not. gently caress thermofisher, they are such a terrible supplier to have to deal with.
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Feb 29, 2024 22:47
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Azuth0667 posted:gently caress thermofisher, they are such a terrible supplier to have to deal with. They don't seem great, no; fortunately dealing with them isn't my problem. At least the tech they send us is a perfectly nice guy.
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Feb 29, 2024 23:19
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TehRedWheelbarrow posted:this so loving hard. On the flip side, I will absolutely do a little extra without claiming any credit whatsoever if it means I help out somebody that I know would do the same for me. Does management need to know? gently caress no, and I’ve had to tell one or two people “you don’t need to sing my praises every time I give you a hand, that’s how I end up with more poo poo to do”
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Mar 1, 2024 05:20
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Azuth0667 posted:gently caress thermofisher, they are such a terrible supplier to have to deal with. Oh man, they're pretty good compared to a lot of their competition (this all varies by service area).
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Mar 1, 2024 06:16
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Azuth0667 posted:gently caress thermofisher, they are such a terrible supplier to have to deal with. All I know about them is there was that murder mystery that happened at one of their facilities in Kentucky.
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Mar 1, 2024 06:23
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Azuth0667 posted:gently caress thermofisher, they are such a terrible supplier to have to deal with. I'ma have to wave my hands vaguely in Waters' direction, and I recently got a Agilent to remove a lead tech from a project over some ludicrous bullshit. To return to an earlier topic, I think the Zoomers will, in aggregate, turn out okay. My youngest teammate is 24 at most, and I am fairly sure I'll end up working for him before I retire if he takes a people manager track. We signed him on as an FTE less than a year out of college, and at about the 1-year mark he decided he was bored outside of work and started an MBA program with an Informatics emphasis. More energy and talent than I ever had.
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Mar 1, 2024 06:46
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I remember complaints about how Gen X are all slackers, and it's only continued forward, and will only continue forward.quote:They [Young People] have exalted notions, because they have not been humbled by life or learned its necessary limitations; moreover, their hopeful disposition makes them think themselves equal to great things -- and that means having exalted notions. They would always rather do noble deeds than useful ones: Their lives are regulated more by moral feeling than by reasoning -- all their mistakes are in the direction of doing things excessively and vehemently. They overdo everything -- they love too much, hate too much, and the same with everything else.
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Mar 1, 2024 08:59
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Outrail posted:Because orgs that have too many people with that attitude collapse and now nobody has a job? There's a lot of grey zone between 'ill help out where needed' and 'gently caress you it's not my job'. sounds like a management issue
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Mar 1, 2024 09:13
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My boss two days ago: add X to this document then send back to me Me: *does that* Today: My boss: Can you explain to me what the justification was for having X in the document  you....YOU MADE ME DO IT. Luckily it's a thread I can point that out in but jfc.
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Mar 1, 2024 15:38
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Best application of a professional empty quote.
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Mar 1, 2024 15:49
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StrangersInTheNight posted:My boss two days ago: add X to this document then send back to me Next week: sorry Strangers but we're putting you on a PIP for violating the policy against X that I just made up. This scenario happened to me once. gently caress that lady.
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Mar 1, 2024 16:52
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But we've always been at war with X-asia.
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Mar 1, 2024 17:00
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I left my old job managing a parts department for a landscaping equipment dealer a while back after stress was killing me. My new job pays almost as well but is 15 minutes from home, and hybrid (2 in 3 wfh). I shudder to think I was driving 1 hour each way every day to work 9 or 10 hours (with no overtime! ”You're management.” They would say). So now that I have gotten over the wave of relief of not having the weight of the world on my shoulders I will list the dumb poo poo my work did. This was a mediun sized family-owned business on it's second generation of ownership in Canada. 1. Desperately bring on new lines of products that are already bloating the market. The yard tools equivalent of buying a crate of fidget spinners a year too late. Owner decided to bring in a line of inexpensive prosumer to expensive commercial grade electric yard tools on consignment. Decided to dump the management of this inventory on my parts team, who had no interest or capacity to sell or track the drat thing (or storage space, we were already full of useless non-selling product lines my predecessor had accumulated in the last 30 years of his tenure). Salesmen (and my boss/the owner himself) would walk in to the warehouse while we were closed or away and just take the tools "for demonstration" and they wound up at home. I did the bare minimum possible with the things but they were a liability and a waste of time. We sold like 2 of the damned tools and one customer got 3 defective leaf blowes in a row. Boss didn't want to be "left out" of the market, never mind we were already doing fine business selling parts and engines for existing small tools like weed whippers and chainsaws. Eventually that tool company's rep stopped answering the phone, leaving the parts department with a stack of about 6 leaf blowers to return for warranty/recall in what was my office -still there last I checked. Same goes for electric ride on lawn mowers. These were great machines but this time the salesmen, a kind of leech that exists by siphoning comissions off of our parts work, were the culprits. In meetings they'd grouse about the high costs, but one of them confided to me privately he didn't trust any electric machines for [conspiracy reasons]. This guy was also pushing bitcoin to anyone and everyone in sight. 2.Treat employees "like family": don't get rid of abusive shitheads and assholes, don't do anything, hope everything calms down. A.The yard guy, who had a history of violent threats (including to yours truly), arrests and restraining orders, chokeslammed my assistant manager against the wall following a disagreement over some inane thing. The police were not called, the owner insisted it was not a problem, and he's still there to this day. B. 70 year old alcoholic parts clerk. This guy moved into my office the second I left apparently, in spite of always insisting he didn't want the job. This guy was a liability for tech and security. He also liked charging whatever he felt like for parts, overriding the system and our agreements with suppliers on a whim. Once stormed out of the office in the middle of the week and went MIA for two days. Reason? "[Ceciltron] was on his cell phone too much!". Never mind that I was his manager and trying to plan my damned wedding during my breaks. My boss calmed him down and got him to come back to work but I was stuck running the place alone during the peak season when my other clerk got sick/had court (astonishing how many people had legal trouble in that place) for almost a week. About that time I decided to start renewing my resumé. This guy was a treasure trove who had memorised every part on most machines we sold in the last 40 years but was starting to make big mistakes since his knowledge was out of date and most of these machines had made 4-5 generational changes in the last 10 years alone. He also never cleaned his desk or emptied his garbage, so mice and flies were common to his work space. C. My other parts clerk: A decent guy but a hair trigger temper. Stormed out of the office multiple times upon perceived or imagined slights from customers, service guys, myself, or life, in general. Hated the guts of one of the managers who was legitimately one of the most helpful and teamplaying members of the company, because they were once friends but now said manager was "all high and mighty". Polar opposite of the old clerk, he was fastidious, teetotalling, and looked like Paul Blart when he shaved his beard off leaving only the mustache. Not so bad once I learned to deal with him, but he badmouthed me multiple times to my boss for "thinking [I] know everything." I could probably post more but this is enough for now.
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Mar 1, 2024 17:32
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Well, you've certainly made me feel a lot better about my job! Thanks!
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Mar 1, 2024 18:03
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Ceciltron posted:
FWIW this dude reads like a lovely co-worker too, he just stands out as the good one because everyone else was worse. Hair temper, throws tantrums, storms out, gossips, and poo poo talks you to the boss? I mean, obviously better than the person who should be charged with assault, but it's still just the shiniest turd in the pile.
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Mar 1, 2024 18:24
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Cyrano4747 posted:FWIW this dude reads like a lovely co-worker too, he just stands out as the good one because everyone else was worse. Hair temper, throws tantrums, storms out, gossips, and poo poo talks you to the boss? I mean, obviously better than the person who should be charged with assault, but it's still just the shiniest turd in the pile. Oh for sure. I just learned to manage him better than the others, which made him downright tolerable by the end.
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Mar 1, 2024 18:29
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I've got a daytime counterpart who hates his job and our boss hates him and they're just in a standoff with hostages (FMLA) every day. Which is whatever but the problem is dude keeps going to meetings and agreeing to poo poo on our behalf. You've got a foot out the door dude, would you please shut the gently caress up in meetings.
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Mar 1, 2024 18:37
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LOL, the dude on our team who does Mac support just got asked by our boss's boss's boss to help someone to get a Vision Pro working in our environment.
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Mar 1, 2024 19:46
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Cthulu Carl posted:LOL, the dude on our team who does Mac support just got asked by our boss's boss's boss to help someone to get a Vision Pro working in our environment. Pray for that man.
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Mar 1, 2024 20:10
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TehRedWheelbarrow posted:this so loving hard. I got so much poo poo for not agreeing to do random things outside my job's requirements over the last year it isn't funny. Apparently refusing to do things that are other job functions' responsibilities is "being difficult" now. Thankfully, my management saw the requests and backed me up. "This could make your career!" Cool, your literally had a boss that blocked your promotion after you went above and beyond and I work for a different team within the company, me doing an engineer's job won't advance my position in Supply Chain. The company launched a new Compliance website this week. I was complaining previously about poorly maintained SharePoint sites inside the company and I wish I could make this up, but one of the links from the main page links to a page that is just completely dead outside of a link to the successor site. This became an official site TODAY and still has a dead link. Additionally, I had asked someone for help in expediating payments due to our own failures and instead of sending me to a site they attached an email from last year with instructions. I don't know how a new person, or someone joining a team, is supposed to navigate this company anymore.
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Mar 1, 2024 21:11
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Desert Bus posted:I've had a lot of jobs where they are all "this is your job" going in, but then they try to gently caress you and make you do more work you never signed up for and certainly won't get compensated for. So you've worked in the brewing industry before, eh?
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Mar 1, 2024 21:41
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wash bucket posted:Pray for that man. He was trying to figure how to tell this dude that he knows absolutely nothing about that thing while the rest of us tried to tell him A) This is his chance to say "I'll need one of my own so I can test" or B) The guy who would know is one of the ones you idiots laid off Wednesday. All the while the guy who handles executive support laughed his rear end off because he had to spend three weeks loving with an Oculus in order to convince and exec that no, meeting absolutely do NOT have to be in the Metaverse.
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Mar 1, 2024 22:24
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I was sitting on a conference call earlier today. Basically, there were 15 of us watching one guy on Teams make a phone call about a specialized account opening to an absolutely massive client for training purposes. Everyone is on mute, cameras off. Towards the end of the call, we hear what sounds like some quite "vigorous exercise" over the line for about 30 seconds. There is only one person off mute. To the credit of the trainer and the client, they both continued on like it wasn't fappening. After the call was done, the trainer continued to pretend it didn't happen, except for stopping once and saying "Is anyone recording this call? (Suspected fapper's manager) is asking." Nobody was, or at least wasn't going to say they were on the call. Then two managers showed up on the call on mute, then they disappeared with the suspected fapper. He is now showing as offline. I mean, it's possible he was running on a treadmill while listening to the call...but it definitely didn't sound good.
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Mar 1, 2024 23:54
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Suspected fapper would be a great username
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Mar 2, 2024 00:32
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Cthulu Carl posted:He was trying to figure how to tell this dude that he knows absolutely nothing about that thing while the rest of us tried to tell him A) This is his chance to say "I'll need one of my own so I can test" or B) The guy who would know is one of the ones you idiots laid off Wednesday. A is a serious missed opportunity. We're being proactive, our VIP support team is getting one. Our New technologies person will have at least one for testing, which is cool 'cause we're tight and I'll get to play with it.
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Mar 2, 2024 00:42
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blackmet posted:I was sitting on a conference call earlier today. Basically, there were 15 of us watching one guy on Teams make a phone call about a specialized account opening to an absolutely massive client for training purposes. Everyone is on mute, cameras off. Lmao
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Mar 2, 2024 00:45
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He was Jeffrey Toobin' it
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Mar 2, 2024 02:52
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A former workplace of mine (that I thankfully retired from right before COVID hit) had the disastrous results of their last "workplace climate survey" leaked to military.com: https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/02/29/alaska-air-guard-unit-found-have-rampant-pattern-of-discrimination.html Nearly every woman I've ever talked to in the unit has made it a point to get out of there as soon as possible, either by laterally transferring into other positions outside of maintenance, or getting out of the military altogether. Minorities have had much the same experience. The final quote in the article is just the icing on the cake: A total scumbag of a commander posted:"These behaviors do not contribute to the mission, they detract from it," Cummings wrote. "Additionally, as we all know, the Guard is expected to do more with less than our active-duty partners. We cannot afford to have our staffless leadership continually tied up in the administrative monster that surrounds these complaints instead of focusing on the mission and their people."
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Mar 2, 2024 02:59
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So turns out the director that had been at my job for three months didn't actually quit with a days notice; he gave his two weeks but management begged for three and to keep it quiet and he obliged. Turns out he couldn't handle the micro-managing owner any better than I could.
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Mar 2, 2024 05:02
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