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I ricked my back so the 4D stuff was unpleasant. I was stunned at how funny Javier Bardem is. I absolutely cracked up at his Life of Brian line. Also Austin Butler is really good and I like how he modeled his voice on Stellan's so there are times you do not know which of them is speaking. Sietch Tabr smelled vaguely menthol and not once did I get a hit of cinnamon  A couple of the pronunciations took me by surprise as well, especially Sietch Tabr where everyone says Tabra. Also Feyd Rawtha rather than Rowtha. Will go see it again without seat madness. 'Tis quite weird to have the seat in front of you come in your face. Sandworms should not smell vaguely floral. Oh and Geidi Prime looks loving amazing and the fireworks were just the best.
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Mar 2, 2024 01:42
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skasion posted:Dune is laugh-at, not laugh-with. The jokes are mostly unfunny, but the world and characters are innately hilarious don't talk to me or my two tleilaxu sons in a trenchcoat ever again
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Mar 2, 2024 01:54
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So this was gorgeous, the sound was amazing, the soundtrack was wonderful, everything on screen was just perfect. But things I disliked: 1. I really disliked how they compressed this in time. Instead of taking place over years, it's months. Even weeks, really, unless Alia's gestation isn't accelerated by her water-of-life mutations. Jessica is never visibly more than a few months pregnant. 2. As a result of the time compression, Chani never gets pregnant and has Leto I, it's just not a thing. I really don't get this. 3. Instead, we get this really weird conflict between Fremen who believe in the Mahdi-myth and those who reject it, and Chani is one of the latter. 4. And as a result of that, we get this *enormous loving betrayal* where Paul essentially repudiates the promises he's made to Chani and embraces the myth. This should utterly destroy their relationship, but Paul just says "I've foreseen that she'll come around eventually." She's utterly repulsed by his ascension to the throne and his arrangement with Irulan, and reacts by going back out into the desert while the rest of the Freman go to wage war on the great houses who don't accept Paul as Emperor, and the bit of the arrangement where Paul gets to be Emperor, Irulan his wife, but there will be no Corrino heir because Paul's having kids with Chani is just not included at all. On screen, he's just ditching Chani to marry Irulan to take the throne. I can't think of a worse way to handle this, and I have no idea why Villaneuve went this way. 5. No Count Fenring. 6. Gurney v. Rabban was really anticlimactic. This is not a thing that needed to happen. I mean, what was on the screen was spectacular, especially the Giedi Prime stuff,but I wish they'd stayed truer to the plot and the characters.
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Mar 2, 2024 02:01
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Halloween Jack posted:We don't know that Fremen control the most spice production. They're all eating lots of spice, but as far as I know, they don't have the heavy machinery that the Imperium uses to harvest it. The fremen use spice like hemp and make tons of poo poo from it. They also probably dont need to mine for silicon when they're surrounded by it literally every single day of their lives.
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Mar 2, 2024 02:14
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Phanatic posted:I mean, what was on the screen was spectacular, especially the Giedi Prime stuff,but I wish they'd stayed truer to the plot and the characters. I generally agree with your dislikes, but I'm withholding most of my judgment until part 3 comes out since I can't imagine the changes were made for no reason. My guess is that he's gonna mash up messiah and children somehow, and these changes are there to set up that combined story.
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Mar 2, 2024 02:49
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Phanatic posted:
Now I won't be the first person to use spoilers to critique...you landed close to some of my thoughts and on exactly the opposite side on others. 1. My bigger complaint is how unnecessary Jessica was to the story here. She does a few things behind the scenes, big deal. What I wanted -- and was left hanging for -- was follow-up to her soliloquy about converting the skeptics, starting with the weak ones...and then bam, we get one scene where Paul's riding a worm and she tells her disciples to get out there and spread the word. 3. I found this to be a really interesting part of the movie, where Denis is questioning the white savior trope in the text and pointing out the perils of fundamentalism as a two-fer. There needed to be some tension as we saw Paul become Fremen, and I was pleasantly surprised to see some of it come from Channi, preserving her agency and dimensionality as a character. What I was not pleased by was Stilgar's one-dimensionalism. I've stumbled across a couple of Life of Brian memes today and they seem all too apt. 4. See above. Yes, this was completely different from the book where Chani submissively accepts that she'll be Paul's concubine and that this political marriage is needed. Good! That's a much more interesting story, and makes Paul's sacrifice as he moves toward jihad more poignant. It also highlights the difference between Jessica and Chani -- she's not willing to be second fiddle to the man she loves; he's broken the promise he made to her to be with her forever and to be Fremen, to be equal. 6. I'd go so far as to say Gurney was unnecessary...now wait, before you throw poo poo or declare kanly, no mention is made of using the family atomics on the shield wall. The wall (and thus the atomics) might as well not have been there; they could have worked around it with a little script work. If the script had done more to show Gurney pulling Paul back into the game of the Great Houses, advising him to take Irulan's hand(instead of Jessalia), etc., then there could have been a meaningful place for him. But he was in it because (a) Rabban needed to die and (b) nobody would believe the twink could beat Bautista (though Elvis does so convincingly). And the fight was a big nothingburger. Acting MVPs: in a stunning upset it's Elvis, with Charlotte Rampling supporting (R.M. Mohiam, the emperor's advisor) and the Atreides dude in the arena for featured extra-type. Most wasted actors: Christopher Walken, Tim Blake Nelson
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Mar 2, 2024 02:49
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yeah, walken's wasted, i agree
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Mar 2, 2024 02:54
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Admiralty Flag posted:Now I won't be the first person to use spoilers to critique...you landed close to some of my thoughts and on exactly the opposite side on others. But this works against the text. "Oh, those people? They're creepy fundamentalists, you don't want to have anything to do with *those* people*" lets everyone who isn't a fundamentalist off the hook. But one of the enormous central points of Dune is that no, it's not just those creepy fundamentalists, *everyone* gets swept up in these events, *everyone* falls under the spell of the charismatic leader. The point isn't the perils of *fundamentalism*, the point is the peril of the charismatic leader who appeals to fundamentalism (or whatever else he appeals to that suits the situation).
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Mar 2, 2024 03:12
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Halloween Jack posted:It's also possible that the desert Fremen just don't think much of city Fremen like Mapes, and aren't willing to stick their necks out. I think it's this. Despite being descendants of the same people, that doesn't mean they consider town-fremen to be 'them'. Why would they lay down their lives for people who are effectively a different society?
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Mar 2, 2024 03:57
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wizard2 posted:also tonally, Im really not sure why both movies are so direly serious for a big adapation of the most Young Adultest of Young Adult novels. Part 2 seemed like it was making an effort to be funnier than the first one. It worked, there was a lot of laughter in the theater, especially scenes with Stilgar, but I kind of wish they'd kept things more somber. Were either of these two scenes in the book, or just made up for the movie? The dumbass Harkonnen officer who thought it was a good idea to tell Rabban to get some rest. As soon as he appeared on screen I knew Rabban was going to kill him. Also, the ornithopter assault, where Rabban breaks the guy's neck. It was obvious he was going to kill someone in there, but wasn't sure who. Also, what was the point of attacking the spice harvester and getting shot at by a 'thopter, when they seemed to have had lasguns set up all around it already. And one thing about the time frame. I kind of like how Paul's capturing of the Emperor plays out. He takes a gamble with a blitzkrieg and pulls it off, which feels more realistic than a drawn out war.
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Mar 2, 2024 04:08
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Phanatic posted:
Yeah, I dislike the idea that it needs to 'handle' the white savior role because the entire point of Dune is that Paul and Jessica were intentionally playing into messiah tropes that were planted there by the BG, and Paul struggles with the possibility of wholeheartedly embracing the role and rejecting it outright and the fear he has that adopting it will burn the galaxy and ruin the people close to him. Like one of the most chilling scenes in the book is where Paul does something and he realized Stilgar has changed from his close friend to a worshipper and that his path leads there. I like Chani having more agency in theory but it sort of weakens the idea that Paul taking the role of the Messiah will make him both more and less than a man. (And the fear and conflict of that which eventually leads to him not walking Leto's path.) Instead it just paints everyone else as weak-minded and helpless rather than Paul adopting the cloak of something bigger than he is and himself being unable to stop it, as even his death could lead to jihad.
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Mar 2, 2024 04:23
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YoursTruly posted:Were either of these two scenes in the book, or just made up for the movie? Neither of those is in the book. And yeah, that harvester raid bugged me too. First, it's at the wrong point in the plot, the Fremen don't start trying to shut down spice production until Paul's in the lead, their focus until he shows up is on keep away from the Harkonnens while running their own harvesting operations so they can pay off the guild. Second, yeah, Fremen would not be exposing themselves to the guns like that, the whole point of that scene seemed to be to give Paul something to do to earn credibility, but it requires the Fremen to be needlessly bad at being Fremen.
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Mar 2, 2024 04:27
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Denis loving pulled it off, he understood the assignment and he did it his way. I am so so so impressed with the changes he made. Enemies surrounded him: delay, disease, fanatic nerds, and financiers in their noble houses...but he saw one way through, one possibility. It's the real deal, folks.
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Mar 2, 2024 08:57
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The gross splurpy black and white fireworks on giedi prime were incredible
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Mar 2, 2024 11:37
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The scenes on Gedi Prime were filmed in infrared which i think looks totally different from black & white, wonder if anyone has used that before. 
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Mar 2, 2024 13:11
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Just Another Lurker posted:The scenes on Gedi Prime were filmed in infrared which i think looks totally different from black & white, wonder if anyone has used that before. Yeah, infrared does interesting things with translucency, especially where skin, clouds, and plants are concerned. I use to gently caress around with infrared film in college and take a lot of pictures of big tropical leaves and poo poo, it was really fun. Never worked with digital infrared tho
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Mar 2, 2024 13:20
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Geidi Prime was so loving gross looking, it ruled. Also lol that I saw the captured Atreides soldier that fought Feyd in the arena, the undrugged one, and immediately recognized him as Fiendish Dr. Wu from Black Dynamite
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Mar 2, 2024 14:11
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Murray Mantoinette posted:Geidi Prime was so loving gross looking, it ruled. Was that Atreides the one that calls for shields in the first movie when they're getting off the ship? It's been awhile.
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Mar 2, 2024 14:15
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Hunterhr posted:Was that Atreides the one that calls for shields in the first movie when they're getting off the ship? It's been awhile. Yep, same lad. 
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Mar 2, 2024 14:20
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Murray Mantoinette posted:Geidi Prime was so loving gross looking, it ruled. Yeah, he was the fight coordinator in the first movie and had a line. Presumably same again. He lives down in Wicklow and has a stunt school, which makes me think he's directly responsible for the lead Sardaukar guy being Irish out of nowhere.
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Mar 2, 2024 14:24
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Sard O'Kar
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Mar 2, 2024 14:39
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I caught it on the Sunday release in a lovely fauxMax but it was still a good time. The tenor was different, and I was irked or confused by some of the changes, but that was softened because it was a very good signal that they were gonna do Messiah and needed some more conflict with assertive chani. I left a bit unsure on how I felt whereas I really loved DUNC1 immediately after seeing it. Talking through some of my thoughts with the only other big Dune head I know in real life helped me digest it a lot more, and I certainly enjoyed it. I’ll be giving it another go now that I can watch it without scrutinizing the differences and instead appreciate just how well this has been adapted.
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Mar 2, 2024 15:01
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Murray Mantoinette posted:Sard O'Kar To hell or to Salusa Secundus.
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Mar 2, 2024 15:06
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Monica Bellucci posted:Yeah, he was the fight coordinator in the first movie and had a line. Presumably same again. He lives down in Wicklow and has a stunt school, which makes me think he's directly responsible for the lead Sardaukar guy being Irish out of nowhere. that's cool because he's in the background of a lot of scenes in dunc 1. he's in the first meeting with stilgar, gurney hands him the sand compactor when duncan comes back from his mission, he's in one of the fight scenes during the hark invasion if I remember correctly
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Mar 2, 2024 15:14
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https://imgur.com/bZO8MoG.mp4
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Mar 2, 2024 15:45
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Does this one at least finish the first Dune book or we doing Hobbit all over again??
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Mar 2, 2024 15:48
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Colonel Cancer posted:Does this one at least finish the first Dune book or we doing Hobbit all over again?? it finishes. but theres gonna be a third movie w dune messiah, if they make enough money
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Mar 2, 2024 15:52
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Admiralty Flag posted:
I understand the need for a little bit more political finagling, but I think Dennis had to cut out some exposition, he did include the part about the "Original" Atomics which helped explain why there are a buttload of missles inside a cave, so for non-Dune fans its a McGugffin to give the underdogs a better chance at winning. The Lansradd shock at someone blowing poo poo up for blowing poo poo up's sake isn't really needed as its inferered that the gargantuan NUCLEAR EXPLOSION that just took out a mountainside is a pretty big deal. I thought the Twink vs. Powder fight was pretty brutal, or are you reffering to the Rabban vs. Gurney fight? YoursTruly posted:
I think the point was maybe to build the plot that Paul is becoming a Fedyakin and the audience needs to see him fighting. It could be hand-waved away that the fremen were spread around to avoid detection and needed time to setup the lasguns or something! I think the movie needed action sequences to keep things moving. Im still sad that we got two DUNCs and no spice navigators in a mobile fishtank.
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Mar 2, 2024 16:05
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fuckingtest posted:
Yea, this was the only thing I really wish they did that they didn't.
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Mar 2, 2024 16:11
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They can't use lasguns with a shielded thopter flying around.
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Mar 2, 2024 16:15
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fuckingtest posted:Im still sad that we got two DUNCs and no spice navigators in a mobile fishtank. I thought the intro shots of Alia were laying the groundwork for that.
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Mar 2, 2024 16:19
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Watched on IMAX (or what I think was IMAX? Are there fauxIMAXes out there pretending to be the real thing?). Enjoyable, beautiful cinematography; I feel it fell a tad short on storytelling. Still, beautiful, gorgeous -- just not gripping in terms of story (granted, I read the book so knew the story -- they made some changes that I feel detracted from the narrative's coherence). That said, those are largely nitpicks and the movie is quite enjoyable on its own merits (though I wonder how non-book readers know wtf is going on) Book and movie spoilers: - Removing the two year gap and the death of Paul and Chani's child felt like it hampered Paul's character development -- I felt like that was a key moment in Paul saying gently caress it, let's jihad - Also made his sister stay unborn, which was ... odd, and made Paul kill the Baron? That's a big deviation from the book - Also feels unrealistic for Paul to do everything in six months vs the two years it took in the book - Yay for Anya Taylor-Joy showing up! - Chani leaving is also a big change  - I suspect Dune 3 will diverge even more, which might be for the best considering Dune: Messiah (I have not yet read it) is reportedly much worse in quality than the first book - Where is Thufir Hawat? - Scenes on Giedi Prime were amazing; they nailed the Harkonnen aesthetic Good review: https://schicksalgemeinschaft.wordpress.com/2024/03/02/dune-part-two-denis-villeneuve-2024/ alcaras fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Mar 2, 2024 |
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Mar 2, 2024 16:49
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Monica Bellucci posted:I thought the intro shots of Alia were laying the groundwork for that. I thought this too, I was expecting a callback later in the film when the Emperor and his army arrive. Would have been cool to see a similar shot and when you think "WTF is up with that baby!?" you see its swirling in melange and its a navigator folding space! Cut to emperors orb coming out of a highliner. But alas! BastardySkull posted:They can't use lasguns with a shielded thopter flying around. I think the poster meant the part about the fact that the fremen could have just blown up the harvester at a distance with lasguns, even with a shielded ornithopter flying around. But yeah, instead of seeing the ground assault/'thopter fight, they would have exposed themselves to fire and you cant shoot that guy down with lasguns or risk big bada-boom fuckingtest fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Mar 2, 2024 |
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Mar 2, 2024 16:58
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fuckingtest posted:I thought the Twink vs. Powder fight was pretty brutal, or are you reffering to the Rabban vs. Gurney fight? I meant that Denis probably thought Gurney had to be the one to beat Rabban, because no one would buy Muad'twink could beat Bautista in a fight, but the movie itself belies this by having Feyd convincingly put Rabban on the point of death with a sudden burst of violence. I too thought the Rabban/Gurney fight was a complete blueball experience, but I can sort of see it; two long duels would drag out the movie. But if R/G had lasted a bit longer and we'd seen Rabban realize he's outclassed by this Ginaz Swordmaster, that would have been great. Elvis v. Wonka was just about right. I liked it better than Lynch's, primarily because he's Paul's equal, or near-equal, who gets the best of him for a moment without having to resort to a cheap trick. It added tension to the fight. (And yes I know about the dirty trick even being in the book, but I liked this version, straining belief slightly as it did., Paul walking around with two knives stuck in him.) I did forget to mention -- fortunately others did -- in my earlier thumbs-up/-down that Giedi Prime's cinematography kicks rear end, especially the black sun and the fireworks, and the scene where Feyd suddenly ends up at Lady Margot's chambers is really well done. I have some other thoughts on the role of the white savior trope/Denis' dialog with it/the book vs. the movie but need to ponder it a bit more.
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Mar 2, 2024 17:59
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Just got out of my imax showing, and I was totally expecting atomics to be cut, because it always struck me as such an anachronism that’s in the book since it was written during the Cold War, when nukes were the poo poo and always would be. Hell, in this film they’re even literal ICBMs, 10,000+ years in the future! I’m not disappointed it was kept in the film at all, but I just figured he’d have to cut things aggressively and this seemed like something that could easily lose against other stuff hanging in the balance. 10/10 film, will watch again once my hearing returns.
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Mar 2, 2024 18:33
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kalel posted:that's cool because he's in the background of a lot of scenes in dunc 1. he's in the first meeting with stilgar, gurney hands him the sand compactor when duncan comes back from his mission, he's in one of the fight scenes during the hark invasion if I remember correctly He says attention and they all stand up at Paul's first strategy meeting. I think he' the guy Gurney calls out to about the stabilizers on his fighter on Caladan too.
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Mar 2, 2024 19:03
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Also tells Gurney and Leto to get inside out of the heat.
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Mar 2, 2024 19:04
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If anyone's a cunning linguist, you might like the second part of this article.Phanatic posted:So this was gorgeous, the sound was amazing, the soundtrack was wonderful, everything on screen was just perfect. But things I disliked: Then again, it also means Chani isn't just a complete push-over, and has actual agency - so if it's paid off well in DUNC Messiah, I'll probably be okay with it in retrospect. YoursTruly posted:Also, what was the point of attacking the spice harvester and getting shot at by a 'thopter, when they seemed to have had lasguns set up all around it already. Specifically, if you shoot a shield with a lazgun, the resulting explosion can be anything up-to-and-including nuclear levels with ionizing radiation, and the latter is completely verboten under The Great Convention - apparently Houses major can go into exile (though Leto refuses to have Atreides do this, since he (rightly, thought he didn't live long enough to know) thinks he's found a potential ally that can rival the Emperors Sardukar), except if they use atomics.
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Mar 2, 2024 21:12
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its prolly a bet that if you like vicious politics you've read the book already like how he deleted the variational calculus from tales of your life, and was probably right in doing so
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Mar 2, 2024 21:18
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:If anyone's a cunning linguist, you might like the second part of this article. Very interesting and a cool read. I understand the dude's motivation and logic with the fictional language, but gently caress you if your immersion through a constructed language comes at the cost of Herbert's intentions and vision for Dune.
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Mar 2, 2024 21:23
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