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Ratios and Tendency posted:Paul's abrupt change of heart is explained by the film, he drinks the spice poison which focuses his prescience. He was getting visions of his embracing the prophesy leading to a terrible war, after drinking the poison he sees clearly that that is actually the only possible future where he and Jessica manage to survive and take revenge on the Harkonnens at all. He also says "guess since now I know I'm part Harkonnen now I'm going to act like a Harkonnen, and just mercilessly rule" Immediately after that he he does what he said he didn't want to do which is become a religious leader to cynically use the people that believe in him. The film is extremely straightforward about what's going on. Really the hardest part is people not understanding.
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Mar 3, 2024 23:23
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I'm quite dumb, so can someone help me understand a couple of things: - How does Feyd find the northern seich and why does the Baron feel that using conventional artillery on it is such a genius move? If it's just cause he thinks those artillery ships are sick as gently caress then I totally agree with him cause they are. - Could the studio force the release of an extended version of the films? Cause I would pay a lot of money for more of this poo poo. Or does Denis Villeneuve have final say, even if they don't call it a Directors Cut? I just want to bath in hours of it like I'm in the Baron's oil tub. I feel like the characters that feel underdone, like the Emperor, had a lot cut.
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Mar 3, 2024 23:34
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Failed Imagineer posted:https://twitter.com/halomancer1/status/1764119770591641773?t=OpnyZNE8rK2on3wmp_U2eQ&s=19 Kull Wahad
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Mar 3, 2024 23:38
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Bi Lal Kaifa
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Mar 3, 2024 23:39
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I find the choices around Gaius Helen Mohaim in this film to be quite interesting. In this, and by extension Part 1, she is actively egging the Emperor on to destroy House Atreides. The Emperor didn't really need another excuse - Duke Leto and his predecessors were clever enough in how they were bringing the best people to them to train their armies, they were a true upstart and starting to threaten his position. Then again, perhaps the Reverend Mother is only subtly suggesting to the Emperor to take them out, it's neither here nor there. What is interesting is that she explicitly says they're too headstrong and needed to be liquidated entirely from the Breeding Programme. That's weird. I'm pretty sure in the books the BG are very active in Imperial polictics but were actively dismayed that they were about to lose one if not more (see; above post about losing both Feyd and Paul) lines to this conflict. That is why Fenring leaves those notes (in the books) and that is why in Part 1 Mohaim says "on Arrakis we've done everything for you" and is talking about Paul going "into the fire" due to Jessica's hubris. But Denis does also choose to have her go to Giedi Prime to tell the Baron to back the gently caress off from Paul and Jessica. Why? If she wanted to liquidate that line entirely she needed both of them gone. I think someone else posted about this and said maybe she simply wanted the bloodline, but shorn from the "defiant" nature of the House overall? Being a Bene Gesserit she would know that the damage is done to Paul in terms of his temperament, though I guess they would have the seed to try again on his offspring. I genuinely mean it's an interesting choice. I'm not sure it is a plothole, though at first glance it sort of looked like one.
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Mar 3, 2024 23:44
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Failed Imagineer posted:- When Paul is first tripping at the spice harvester, he mumbles "I recognised you from your footsteps, old man" to Gurney's approach, which at the time seems to be a callback to the training room scene on Caladan but now seems more like a call-forward to when Paul surprises Gurney with those words in DUNC2 Shai hulud means 'old man of the desert'.
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Mar 3, 2024 23:50
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banned from Starbucks posted:Movie owned. Tried to get tickets last night to see it again today, and every screening was sold out except for the lovely seats at the extreme edge against the wall. We're gonna get a third film. don't even think it has competition for another two or three weeks either
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Mar 3, 2024 23:51
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Holy poo poo, I wasnt expecting that ending. I am so used to the lovely cut and dried 1980s version.
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Mar 3, 2024 23:55
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BastardySkull posted:I find the choices around Gaius Helen Mohaim in this film to be quite interesting. K Not wrong but things AFAIK, she starts off wrong. From her point of view she was gonna shepherd in the Granma Thing-Kwizatch Haderach (Bene Gennerit) expression. Anyway The BG did that for so long they forgot/did not maintain what the Kwizatch HADERACH actually does. Always chasing up after because so much expression. The BGs play chase after the first book as does everyone else. NO one captures the whole but the BG end up being the baseline.
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Mar 3, 2024 23:56
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BastardySkull posted:I find the choices around Gaius Helen Mohaim in this film to be quite interesting. I consider it as a trial by fire for Paul. Jessica was not supposed to have a male heir, she was supposed to have a female they could mate to Fayd. She disobeyed the BJO so the Reverend Mother was basically like "Ok Bitch, you think you are going to raise the kwisatz haderach, you are going to have to really prove that he's it." After Paul kills Fayd, she doesn't really care because Fayd got that other BJ pregnant, so that bloodline is safe for now. I'd guess she would want to perhaps try to manipulate things to get Paul to later mate with that child. But I could also be talking out my rear end too.
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Mar 4, 2024 00:00
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I liked this movie. There were parts I felt they just expected the audience to go along with without explanation though. Like how as soon as Rautha becomes boss the Harkonnens find where the Fremen are and bomb them. How'd they not do that before? No one ever though 'lets try to find where they're hiding out" ? The change of ending was interesting. That will definitely cause some issues with how they're gonna tie into a third movie if they want to still follow the book plot.
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Mar 4, 2024 00:12
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Who is the dark skinned Fremen in Paul's visions? Talking about how he has a ways to go and all that. Is it just a random Fremen representing his people? Or a character I completely missed? I have actual face blindness.
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Mar 4, 2024 00:19
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Bright Bart posted:Who is the dark skinned Fremen in Paul's visions? Talking about how he has a ways to go and all that. You mean Jamis? He's the guy Paul killed at the end of the first film.
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Mar 4, 2024 00:20
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Bright Bart posted:Who is the dark skinned Fremen in Paul's visions? Talking about how he has a ways to go and all that. It's Jamis edit: spoiler tags! This is not discord.
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Mar 4, 2024 00:20
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Bright Bart posted:Who is the dark skinned Fremen in Paul's visions? Talking about how he has a ways to go and all that. Beaten
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Mar 4, 2024 00:23
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Ccs posted:I liked this movie. There were parts I felt they just expected the audience to go along with without explanation though. Like how as soon as Rautha becomes boss the Harkonnens find where the Fremen are and bomb them. How'd they not do that before? No one ever though 'lets try to find where they're hiding out" ?
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Mar 4, 2024 00:24
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he taught me how to live my life as it should be he taught me how to walk whenever worms want to eat me I've had friends before and I can tell you that he will never leave you water-fat 
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Mar 4, 2024 00:24
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uber_stoat posted:he taught me how to live drat parasocial relationships
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Mar 4, 2024 00:27
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On a second viewing the movie doesn't really need more time for politics, it needs to cut scenes like the Atreides stockpile or the Baron lying in the desert that don't really add anything in order to make time for maybe one scene and a dozen lines of dialogue. Particular points that needed fixing are why the Emperor needs to go to Arrakis and why the great houses don't simply kill Paul.
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Mar 4, 2024 00:31
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Red Rox posted:
The ships are indeed sick. They omit quite a bit of explanation for why this was brilliant; artillery is all but obsolete in a world with shields. But you can’t use a lasgun to carve up Tabr, because if it hits a shield, it creates an atomic like blast. So using something that nobody would reasonably plan for was a clever move to destroy the otherwise impenetrable and unassailable seitch.
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Mar 4, 2024 00:39
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sebmojo posted:Shai hulud means 'old man of the desert'. Shai Hulud means Thing of Eternity in Arabic
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Mar 4, 2024 00:54
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Arglebargle III posted:Shai Hulud means Thing of Eternity in Arabic Huh, ty i didn't know that. It's translated as old man of the desert in the books somewhere iirc idk, appendix maybe? posted:Shai-Hulud was a great deity to the Freemen, who called it “Old Man of the Desert,” “Grandfather of the Desert,” and “Old Father Eternity,” respectively.
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Mar 4, 2024 01:23
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xposting from the gibbis threadkalel posted:just watched it in imax.
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Mar 4, 2024 01:54
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I saw this in Dolby and definitely recommend seeing it in a premium format. The visuals are sound in Dune 2 are spectacular. You really want to feel the score and sounds just taking over. I'd say if you have any interest in the film it's worth seeing for the presentation alone. Overall I enjoyed it and I felt the story of Paul's rise to a messiah and the dangers and cost of that are well told. One I liked a lot is after the initial attack on the spice refinery, we see right before Paul gets his name that Stilgar is telling others how Paul knew that Chani was in danger and saved her, so clearly Paul can see the future like the messiah. Of course we saw that Paul just acted quickly and Chani was able to save herself once he yelled. It's myth making in action. Paul and Chani were also well depicted. Their relationship developing was fine and believable for me. And the fact that Chani was around for many of these myths helps sell her about. Though of course there is apparently magic worm juice. Some of the other events and characters around this main messiah story and relationship just didn't always feel quite completed and the film just asks you to go with it. For example, Jessica example Jessica converting the weak, gotta trust it happened. Or a lot of the ending though others have explained how the lack of Navigators confused how the jihad would work and the emperor giving in. Feyd Rautha was probably the biggest case of trust us. We first see him kill 3 prisoners of which two are drugged. This is to show us his fighting skills, but we have been watching Paul and Fremen kill many Harkonnen at this point so it's hard to compare Feyd. Then we see Feyd bombarding the northern Fremen home, which seems like a straightforward plan that the Barron or Rabban would have tried earlier. These issues don't matter too much as they are events that must happened as part of Paul's path, but fees like they could have been developed a bit more. Good watch though. Sad I missed the special popcorn buckets.
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Mar 4, 2024 02:01
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Red Rox posted:
If physical media isn't completely killed by the time the next movie is out I can see the studio wanting to maybe do a box set ala the Alien franchise where DV gets to look into the camera and tell you "the theatrical cut is my cut but whatever here's the deleted stuff too I guess, have fun" like Ridley Scott did.
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Mar 4, 2024 02:02
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Got out of the movie a little bit ago, and I want Villeneuve to just keep making these until he runs out of source material. Worm Leto, chairdogs, I want it all. I liked Part 1 a lot, but it definitely felt hampered by being only the first half of a story. This felt a lot more complete, not just in the sense that it finishes up the story from Part 1, but also that it gives its major characters full arcs to go through and hits its main themes a lot harder. Looking forward to doing a double feature at some point, I think the two halves greatly strengthen each other.
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Mar 4, 2024 02:06
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Dalaram posted:Unclear how they magically find Tabr; but the book is similar; they just raid a seitch, and sardaukar are forced to retreat from women and children. I was thinking someone evil could order an "accidental" shield detonation suicide assault but maybe it's hard to tell the difference between a proper nuke and and lasgun vs shield explosion?
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Mar 4, 2024 02:25
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That's a plot hole in the books, too. If everyone has easy access to nuclear weapons then why are they not using them against the tiny minority ruling class? Some peasant could simply blow up the Baron and everyone else in the arena on Geidi Prime after being issued his lasgun and shield.
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Mar 4, 2024 02:28
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https://screenrant.com/dune-2-scenes-cut-tim-blake-nelson-response/ Tim Blake Nelson was cut from the movie in editing. Although he can't say what character he was, it's pretty obvious he was playing Count Hasimir Fenring. Who else from the books would possible fit Nelson and doesn't show up in the movie?
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Mar 4, 2024 02:35
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He was gonna play baby Alia
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Mar 4, 2024 02:36
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Arglebargle III posted:That's a plot hole in the books, too. If everyone has easy access to nuclear weapons then why are they not using them against the tiny minority ruling class? Some peasant could simply blow up the Baron and everyone else in the arena on Geidi Prime after being issued his lasgun and shield. Gundam rules of gentlemanly war conduct dictate nukes are no fair
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Mar 4, 2024 02:37
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Arglebargle III posted:That's a plot hole in the books, too. If everyone has easy access to nuclear weapons then why are they not using them against the tiny minority ruling class? Some peasant could simply blow up the Baron and everyone else in the arena on Geidi Prime after being issued his lasgun and shield. Yeah, im always surprised there wasn’t some contrivance to explain away either suicide bombing with lasgun/shield, or “aim lasgun at shield, with a timer on the trigger to gtfo” I really like how they depicted both the shields, and the anti-shield weapons in this reimagining. The drilling bombs in the first one are a great effect; coupled with shields containing the blasts until they fail like some of the ‘thopters
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Mar 4, 2024 02:40
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Apparently Geidi Prime was filmed in infrared. While extremely cool, there's no way that the human eye would be able to perceive the sunlight and arena under the "black" infrared sunlight. It would just look dark. I was wondering what that effect was and I know Denis did infrared filming on Sicario. Oh and supposedly the whole thing came about because they realized they would confuse the audience by using a sandy arena, which I'm not sure about.
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Mar 4, 2024 02:46
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I'm really interested to see how we even arrive back at the starting point of Messiah, or even if the story departs HUGELY from the books. I just don't see a reasonable path back from the end of D2 to the start of Book Messiah. Thinking about what actually needs to happen in Messiah from a, "coherent trilogy" perspective Paul needs to kill 65 million people in the jihad, he needs to get word of a Fremen resistance inside the city, he needs to get blinded, he needs to completely neuter the power of the BG, and he needs to walk into the desert to die. If you know for a fact you don't need to get into the kids because no sequels, the story very well could be 16-20 years later, Paul has still refused to father a child with Irulan and is crazy conflicted about his jihad. Chani disappeared into the desert and never turned back up. He gets word of a local resistance, goes out to investigate and is blinded by the stone burner. But he can still see the future because he's following a path only he can see. We have a big Fremen revolt against him and [shock] it's being led by Chani! and [double shock] he knows all this because it's the path he's seen. He has visions of him killing Chani and continuing to rule the galaxy forever! Except in this version, the step he takes OFF the path is in the moment of victory over Chani, and he throws the fight. The BG are ruined (somehow? Jessica gets the comeuppance she deserves coming off 2), the planet reverts to the control of the Fremen resistance, and now, having stepped off the path he could see through prescience, walks into the desert to die, leaving Chani in charge of a Dune actually run by a Fremen not under the thrall of messianic prophecy. He gets to do what he always promised he would. He gets revenge on the BG for all this being a thing in the first place. He gets to make a very different, redemptive decision from the end of D2 where he's the bad guy. We don't have to explain the Spacing Guild and Tleilaxu or Psychic Babies or semi-robotic small people programmed to trigger murder bots. We get a full, coherent story that still wraps up in a 3-part arc. Our hero is Chani, or semi-redeemed anti-hero is Paul, our discredited and ruined powers behind the veil Jessica/BG get put in their place, and the last shot is a loving flower sprouting in the desert or something. HOPE
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Mar 4, 2024 03:04
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That's... Actually p deece
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Mar 4, 2024 03:08
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golden bubble posted:https://screenrant.com/dune-2-scenes-cut-tim-blake-nelson-response/ The milked cat
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Mar 4, 2024 03:11
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Huxley posted:I'm really interested to see how we even arrive back at the starting point of Messiah, or even if the story departs HUGELY from the books. I just don't see a reasonable path back from the end of D2 to the start of Book Messiah. I dig that idea.
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Mar 4, 2024 03:15
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Red Rox posted:I was thinking someone evil could order an "accidental" shield detonation suicide assault but maybe it's hard to tell the difference between a proper nuke and and lasgun vs shield explosion?
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Mar 4, 2024 04:03
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Dalaram posted:Yeah, im always surprised there wasn’t some contrivance to explain away either suicide bombing with lasgun/shield, or “aim lasgun at shield, with a timer on the trigger to gtfo” duncan does exactly that in the book.
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Mar 4, 2024 04:05
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I only really know God-Emperor from pop-cultural osmosis and summaries, what's Herbert's justification for why the end of thousands of years long oppression would lead to humanity eventually flourishing (after subsequent thousands of years of famine, etc.)? For Leto II it's the end of prescience, but what's Herbert's thesis? Just seems comparatively juvenile to the themes articulated in Dune and Messiah.
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Mar 4, 2024 04:18
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