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FISHMANPET posted:How big is your house? Ours is a two story four square with an accessible attic, 1300 SQ ft, and we paid about $25k for a crew to do it with only 4 holes in the entire house. And it only took them 4 or 5 days, and that was with the team leader/most experienced guy gone for the first two days. And that was 2.5 years ago when prices for everything felt nuts. The whole house is a one story/2100 sq ft Craftsman, but now that I think of it, about 600 of that is an addition (permitted!) with its own panel that was built in the 90s, so I'd say about 1500 sq ft would have knob and tube. And when it comes to it, we'll be willing to pay for the gentle approach, so it's good to hear that's an option. It's more knowing what's necessary versus what's probably being thrown in to juice an invoice. FISHMANPET posted:As for if it's safe to leave it, man, who knows. For sure, for sure. For now we're taking solace in the fact that the inspector reported that it was in good shape, but we'll feel even better when it's gone. VVV Yeah, it seems like the "whoever touched it last owns it" part is probably going to drive it, and we'll have to live with that in order to have someone licensed & bonded do the work. Paper Tiger fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Mar 5, 2024 |
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Mar 5, 2024 06:40
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interested to learn more about this topic, since i'm also living in a similar house with active knob and tube wiring, and decent attic access what i've gathered so far is that the wiring is "safe" as long as it isn't hosed with or loaded beyond its design capacity. so part of my concern in your/my case would be that a partial replacement means loving with it, while also leaving some of it actively in place this leads to the matter of electricians hesitating to officially sign off on the safety of (or even acknowledge) any loving-with. seems like they want to upgrade everything to modern code if you want that level of assurance, and i can't blame them. the cloth insulation on those old wires crumbles in your hands on the plus side, with hot and neutral separated by a foot of air, you're much less susceptible to arc faults! 
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Mar 5, 2024 06:40
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What is the advtanage to just replacing some of it like you seem to want to?
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Mar 5, 2024 07:02
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GlyphGryph posted:What is the advtanage to just replacing some of it like you seem to want to? The original thinking behind attic runs now/walls later was that we'd be reducing the amount of knob and tube in the near term, and then saving some time and money on the wall portion by waiting until we're remodelling and have better access to walls behind cabinets, etc. But based on what I'm hearing, that two-step approach may actually make the situation worse, since it's essentially messing with a knob and tube system without fully removing it. And it wouldn't actually save that much hassle in the end, considering that there are low-impact ways to get it all out when the time comes. So, now we're leaning towards leaving it as is until we do our first remodel (likely the kitchen) and then have a full rewire done at that point.
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Mar 5, 2024 07:50
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Paper Tiger posted:So, now we're leaning towards leaving it as is until we do our first remodel (likely the kitchen) and then have a full rewire done at that point. Yeah, this is the better choice. Electrical junctions are where problems happen, and you want as few of them as possible. When you rewire the house you'll want long unbroken runs from the panel to the end points, so having newer romex just in the attic won't save you anything there. When you do the kitchen, modern electrical code will call for a ton more circuits than you have now, so that's when you get your new panel and run all new copper.
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Mar 5, 2024 10:11
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Attic k&t can be more problematic than wall k&t because it tends to get covered up with insulation which wrecks the heat dissipation. Yours is still visible and exposed? As long as you aren't facing insurance pressure to remove the knob and tube wiring in the attic, I would hold off and replace the whole thing in one go. If the panel uses a breaker format that is still being made (square D QO, CH/Eaton Type J) you might be able to put some AFCI breakers on the k&t and get a bit extra protection against a lovely connection sparking and causing a fire.
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Mar 5, 2024 11:31
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Paper Tiger posted:The original thinking behind attic runs now/walls later was that we'd be reducing the amount of knob and tube in the near term, and then saving some time and money on the wall portion by waiting until we're remodelling and have better access to walls behind cabinets, etc. Also look at buying the wire yourself. A couple years back I had some new circuits added in our basement and the electrician was good but he pointed out that they were going to charge me $1.99/ft and you can buy a 250ft roll of 14/3 for 45¢ per foot at Home Depot. Could be significant savings for a whole house rewire.
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Mar 5, 2024 13:15
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Shifty Pony posted:Attic k&t can be more problematic than wall k&t because it tends to get covered up with insulation which wrecks the heat dissipation. Yours is still visible and exposed? As long as you aren't facing insurance pressure to remove the knob and tube wiring in the attic, I would hold off and replace the whole thing in one go. This is the part that I'd be worried about. Does your insurance know about the K&T? edit: it would also suck to be moved in, want to kick the can on renovations, only to have the insurance people actually look at your records and say they're dropping you unless you replace it right loving know, like they do with roof poo poo.
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Mar 5, 2024 13:39
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Paper Tiger posted:My wife and I recently bought a house that has active knob & tube in the attic, we got money back from the seller rather than have them handle replacement. There is no point in just replacing what you see unless you're a scammer/flipper trying to hide it form someone. This is why nobody legitimate wants that business.
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Mar 5, 2024 14:54
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I'd find out first what circuits the knob & tube is on, and what it's powering. If it is anything like mine was, what is in the attic was for ceiling fixtures below. If it's been inspected, and it's intact and not creating problems, I'd leave it be, with you only real concern being what an underwriter thinks of it. The only other issue is grounding. Properly loaded k&t (i.e. not overloaded or messed with) is safe, especially if it's relegated to operating lighting.
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Mar 5, 2024 15:38
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devicenull posted:We paid $28k for all new windows, doors, *siding*, and gutters. We paid I think $2-3k for the door (apparently they had never sold one these before despite being in the catalog). it was expensive, but it's also rad as gently caress Seeing you get a sale like this makes me worry I did actually screw up a few years ago getting siding/windows. We got two quotes in 2021, then two more quotes from the same two companies in 2022 that were extremely hard sales. I was worried about inflation at that point and when the quotes came in the same (all 4 were within a few grand of each other on ~50k total) I was ready to pull the trigger. I probably should have shopped around more but it's such an awful, predatory system where it was very hard to get anyone to show up, then the minute they do it's buy now for big discounts!! Our next big project is the 4 bay windows we didn't replace when replacing every other window in the house. All 4 bays are sagging slightly and the side bay windows have to be pushed closed after being opened due to being out of flush, so I don't even know where to start since it seems like they need to be jacked up somehow. And we need a complete electric overhaul so reading all the quotes about that are interesting. I'm pretty concerned with making sure things are code, and my uncle (a licensed electrician 3 hours south) told me to just call the local union and ask for referrals directly from them. It might end up being more expensive but hopefully I won't have to deal with high pressure sales.
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Mar 5, 2024 16:09
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If the sales are high pressure you’re being ripped off, and if they pressure you to buy now for a discount it’s a BAD rip off. Just say “thank you for the quote, we need to get a few more in here but we’ll be in touch if we decide to move forward with you.”
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Mar 5, 2024 16:18
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Cyrano4747 posted:If the sales are high pressure you’re being ripped off, and if they pressure you to buy now for a discount it’s a BAD rip off. I suppose it's an expensive mistake I made then. Unfortunately the difficulty seems to be how to find a non high pressure sales pitch in the first place. When we did do the contract we got a week to compare with other people, and the comparison ended up the same, so it definitely felt like throwing our hands in the air over it. For bay replacements, electricity, or trying to figure out how to fix our 'cold' side room on a slab via a energy consultant, how do you recommend finding the best places to even give quotes in the first place? Just trial and error?
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Mar 5, 2024 16:31
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trevorreznik posted:I suppose it's an expensive mistake I made then. Unfortunately the difficulty seems to be how to find a non high pressure sales pitch in the first place. When we did do the contract we got a week to compare with other people, and the comparison ended up the same, so it definitely felt like throwing our hands in the air over it. You avoid this by not subjecting yourself to sales pitches at all. You should ask around to others who have had work done recently and see who they used. Try to find the "good" local GCs and trades that don't advertise because they don't need to. These people aren't typically going to try to make a sale/upsell you. They have plenty of work to stay busy and it's for good reason. Anyone taking a job sourced by one of these sales companies/home depot/home warranty companies are the absolute bottom of the barrel contractors. Anyone who's even adequate at their jobs has more work than they know what do do with right now and simply wouldn't be available for that kind of thing.
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Mar 5, 2024 16:35
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Motronic posted:You avoid this by not subjecting yourself to sales pitches at all. You should ask around to others who have had work done recently and see who they used. Try to find the "good" local GCs and trades that don't advertise because they don't need to. These people aren't typically going to try to make a sale/upsell you. They have plenty of work to stay busy and it's for good reason. Sounds good, thank you.
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Mar 5, 2024 16:42
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This is good stuff, thanks all. Homeowners insurance doesn't know about the knob and tube yet. They didn't ask about it during the enrollment process, but I do understand that insurers often send out adjusters to look at properties a month or two after opening a new policy. So depending on what they do, I understand that the timing decision might end up being made for us. As far as the attic situation, the inspector did note that there was insulation covering the knob and tube in places. We are already getting quotes on insulation replacements and attic cleanup as part of our 'coexisting with knob and tube' strategy, so that's in the process of being resolved. We're about a week away from being moved in, so in the meantime there's not much load being put on the wiring. I'm not sure if the knob and tube is currently only for ceiling fixtures, but I'm operating under the assumption that it's going to everything except for the addition. If it ends up being less than that, great, but I'll believe it when I see it. Ah, the pit of unease in one's stomach that comes from being a homeowner. It's what I've always dreamed of!
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Mar 5, 2024 16:54
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The way my house was, so that it might help you or others in maybe understanding their own knob & tube: Our house was built without electricity in 1911, and in the early 20s got wired up, presumably with K&T (since I don't think there's anything that would predate the K&T). Our service entrance was up in the attic, and so all outlets upstairs and lights on the main floor basically spidered out from that fuse panel up in the attic. In the 60s the house got a 100 amp service upgrade and a breaker panel. At that time what they did was run all new wiring up from the basement to power all the outlets on the main floor, and then just ran some conduit up to the attic and put 3 wires in it - 2 hots and a neutral. I'm guessing originally those were just two separate breakers, but at some point before we got to it, that was switched out to be some absurdly expensive dual pole AFCI shared neutral breaker. When we had it all remediated, they were able to fish all new wiring from the attic for the upstairs. For the main floor, they just needed to mess with the lights. One of the benefits of a foursquare is that it actually made that really easy. Because of how the joists are all positioned, they had a clear path to fish from the central wall where all our switches were to the light fixtures they controlled. They did have to peel off a ceiling tile in the kitchen that they put back almost perfectly intact - I can only see the "damage" to the tile because I know exactly where to look for it. We also had one light on the front porch where the run had to run perpendicular to the joists. So they drilled holes in the ceiling every 3rd joist bay to be able to get their drills into the joists to feed wire. Then they put old work ceiling boxes with [url=https://www.homedepot.com/p/Arlington-Industries-Ceiling-Box-Cover-CP3540-1/309116689?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&pla&mtc=SHOPPING-BF-CDP-GGL-D27E-027_006_CONDUIT_FIT-NA-NA-NA-PMAX-NA-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NEW-NA&cm_mmc=SHOPPING-BF-CDP-GGL-D27E-027_006_CONDUIT_FIT-NA-NA-NA-PMAX-NA-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NEW-NA-71700000113157690--&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAopuvBhBCEiwAm8jaMcUsYG9FzrvqfIpIQmszTCzijvUd4R9Z90Wqwlwan301lY-a8OswhxoCgTEQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds]these[/covers] to patch the holes (no wires run through the boxes). All of the main floor outlets were inspected, and most wer THNN run in conduit so they left those as is. The handful of outlets that were K&T on the main floor were easy enough for them to run through from the unfinished basement. There was one 3 way switch where it would have been really difficult to run the wire (at the top and bottom of the staircase) but they just put in a Caseta 3 way switch there which was about a million times easier and cheaper than actually wiring that as a 3 way.
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Mar 5, 2024 17:13
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trevorreznik posted:Unfortunately the difficulty seems to be how to find a non high pressure sales pitch in the first place. A dead giveaway for a high-pressure sales pitch is if they try to arrange for their visit to happen at a time with both you and your significant other are present. Their goal is to both remove the excuse of "I have to talk it over with my spouse" and to play you off of each other. So if anyone you are considering getting a bid from asks to have both of you present when they do it, you should almost certainly retract the request for a bid.
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Mar 5, 2024 17:28
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I recently replaced three doors in our house, 2 french doors that have screens on them for patio/side yard access and the main front door. The patio ones (or at least one) had to be replaced urgently because the glass shattered in the middle of winter, so we just went to Home Depot and bought what was in stock. The lady working there was one of the fabled super helpful people who slipped me the contact info for who used to do all the door installations for them. He has his own business now doing all kinds of carpentry, but specializes in stairs and doors. He charged about 2400 total for all three doors, including materials. For comparison, the local company Home Depot currently contracts with wanted like 1400 per door for installation. The doors themselves weren't bad either. We got the ones with internal shades for the patio, and they were in stock and available the next day for only $1000 a pop.
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Mar 5, 2024 17:41
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Shifty Pony posted:A dead giveaway for a high-pressure sales pitch is if they try to arrange for their visit to happen at a time with both you and your significant other are present. Their goal is to both remove the excuse of "I have to talk it over with my spouse" and to play you off of each other. It is important to have all decision makers present while discussion project scope and budget, especially when both members of a couple have an ownership stake in the property and I am required to get both signatures as a result. Just tell the salesperson you need to think about it and you'll call them when you're ready. Wanting to talk to the people who own and live in the home isn't some kind of sales trick.
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Mar 5, 2024 18:08
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My wife and I shut down whenever the high pressure sales tactics come out. Unfortunately the same can’t be said for the aloof, uncaring contractors who provide a quote but don’t give a drat if we sign it  Just come here and let me lay some fat stacks on you already
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Mar 5, 2024 18:30
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Tezer posted:It is important to have all decision makers present while discussion project scope and budget, especially when both members of a couple have an ownership stake in the property and I am required to get both signatures as a result. Yeah, the key is to just tell them thank you and here's the door. It's all mind games, and really you just have to have enough backbone to not fold and sign right then and there. Yes they will get pissy. Yes you have to be willing to deal with someone acting like you're selling their kids into slavery because you didn't agree to sign today for their special one day only 15% discount on the $60k they quoted you to replace four windows. Yes they will be rude and angry. If anything seeing how someone reacts to you saying that you need to get some more quotes but will be in touch with them is a great barometer for how much you want to do business with them in the first place. If they throw a temper tantrum over that you sure as poo poo didn't want them doing poo poo in your home. The normal ones who know their quote is competitive just shrug and say thanks because they know how the game is played.
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Mar 5, 2024 18:41
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Does anyone recommend a retailer for custom windows? I want to replace one as a test this summer.
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Mar 5, 2024 19:20
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StormDrain posted:Does anyone recommend a retailer for custom windows? I want to replace one as a test this summer. We have local places that make windows and such. Or you can go with one of the big boys. Either way, you probably want to go to the lumberyard or buliding supply the builders/contractors in your area go to and ask them about your project and what you're looking for and they can give you the options as they're likey the place that has the relationships to place orders with those manufacturers as well as the national ones.
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Mar 5, 2024 19:27
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My neighbors recently had an awful time with Pella. The installers were great, but Pella kept delaying things by months and then sent 25% of the wrong windows.
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Mar 5, 2024 19:39
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Speaking of doors I have a doorway that currently has a normal swingy door in it and it's just... horrible. You've got to swing the door back through yourself for the full 170 degrees until it's fully open. Or you can go by it and open it from the stairs.  All around, just not fun! With that slightly larger than door sized space of open wall before the window, it seems like the perfect place for a sliding door. But that hallway it leads into is only a psuedo-internal hallway. That part of the house is functionally unheated and open to the outside, which is fine for what it gets used for, but means a normal hanging sliding door is probably gonna get too much airflow? What are my options for a good kind of sliding exterior door? All I can find is barn doors that aren't meant to create warm air/cool air barriers, and double wide sliding glass doors which do but are obviously not workable here. What I'd really love, of course is one that slides over and can then be pushed into the door frame with a satisfying *kchunk* or *soft thwump* and then pulled out again with a similar sound before being slid over, with a nice long vertical pole to pull on to do it, but that's probably too much to ask for. I'll probably end up having to make something. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Mar 5, 2024 |
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Mar 5, 2024 21:34
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Look at "double pivot door" or "narrow French door" both options require substantially less swept area across the hall Probably for an exterior door you don't want a bunch of glass, but, should show you a bunch of results with and without glass.
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Mar 5, 2024 22:55
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Mar 5, 2024 23:05
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lol. Im designing a shed for my yard and I'm looking at these for the door option. They're expensive. Not quite anderson front door expensive but they're not cheap.
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Mar 5, 2024 23:07
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GlyphGryph posted:Speaking of doors Was there an addition or something done here or a really cheap PO? Typically that door should open the other direction (left hand) and swing towards the wall by the stairs. That would be the easiest solution here, as far as I can see. Likely even better to have it swing out into the hallway, I don' think the swing direction matters quite as much if you did that but I would find a Right Hand to be the most comfortable, so the handles aren't buried in the corner.
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Mar 6, 2024 00:05
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Verman posted:lol. Im designing a shed for my yard and I'm looking at these for the door option. They're expensive. Not quite anderson front door expensive but they're not cheap. Yeah. Does anyone have a good source for steel rolldown shutters for diy, residential installation? It may not really exist but I want a couple and all I have found in cursory searching is commercial installers and some ebay stores. Which might be the best option, but idk.
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Mar 6, 2024 00:58
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StormDrain posted:Does anyone recommend a retailer for custom windows? I want to replace one as a test this summer. Harvey, if they are available near you. Super easy to deal with, good dealer network, no questions asked warranty.
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Mar 6, 2024 01:05
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Changing the hinges to the other side or getting a split door would definitely be an inprovement, I think No way to make it swing out without replacing the doorframe though. And Im pretty sure every part of this house is an addition
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Mar 6, 2024 01:17
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GlyphGryph posted:Changing the hinges to the other side or getting a split door would definitely be an inprovement, I think No way to make it swing out without replacing the doorframe though. Haha that clears some of it up. Replacing the frame is easier than flipping the door in some ways. Buy a prehung door, watch some this old house videos, badabing it's in. I'd expect you'd want a prehung exterior door which is more expensive and provides you with weather stripping and a fire rating most likely. You can get a hinge template and take your time to put the hinges on the other side of the frame though, and take your time and it'll be fine. You'll have to patch the door and the frame though and the inside becomes the outside. Unless you really want to drill a new handle prep and fill the old one in.
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Mar 6, 2024 01:27
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skybolt_1 posted:Harvey, if they are available near you. Super easy to deal with, good dealer network, no questions asked warranty. Looks like not. It's not a project I want to sink all my resources into this year. I was hoping by now there was a good DTC window option online that someone would reccomend. I have a single window that's breaking down and would be a good exploration into replacing all of them, so I can get into the details of how the siding and vapor barrier are put together with a lower upfront investment and get a new window out of it.
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Mar 6, 2024 01:30
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StormDrain posted:Replacing the frame is easier than flipping the door in some ways. Buy a prehung door, watch some this old house videos, badabing it's in. I'd expect you'd want a prehung exterior door which is more expensive and provides you with weather stripping and a fire rating most likely. Huh, this post got me to look this up and drat, it's that easy to install a prehung door? Crazy! gently caress you for adding another thing to my to-do list
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Mar 6, 2024 01:48
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Johnny Truant posted:Huh, this post got me to look this up and drat, it's that easy to install a prehung door? Crazy! Yes, it's awesome. Hanging a door is real deal experienced carpenter work even when you have all the tools to do it. It's a skill thing to make it work just right. Slapping in and shimming a pre hung door can be done by a careless drunkard and still end up with good results and a door that seals and operates properly.
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Mar 6, 2024 01:57
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I never even would have considered that, wow. Sounds like no matter which option I go with it's gonna be plenty of work and money though, so I guess I'm gonna live with it for now, and maybe add making ny own custom door system to the list of TODO project later on, hah But pretty far down on the list, not this year. This year is the workbench, the sauna, and the flesh melting/bone cleaning station as my big projects... plus whatever else breaks. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Mar 6, 2024 |
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Mar 6, 2024 04:00
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Motronic posted:
I resemble this post.
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Mar 6, 2024 06:29
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So, when we had our inspection done, we were told about some mold issues that would need to be remediated, and some moss and other potential issues on the roof that would need to be taken care of. We got a couple of quotes for each, and given that I and my housemates have absolutely zero experience with mold removal, I would really appreciate any advice you all could offer. The mold remediation came in a bit higher than we were expecting; we set aside quite a bit to deal with stuff like this, so nothing we can't handle , but still a decent chunk of change: the two quotes we got were for $7,950 from... let's call them High Pressure Mold Removal and $5,600 from... Chill Dudes Mold Removal. The $7950 from High Pressure includes a ~$1500 discount if we get back to them in the next couple of days (meaning it's $9500 if we don't get back to them in the next couple of days), which (maybe wrongfully) was a red flag to me, but I have big Old Man energy when it comes to this kind of thing. H110Hawk told me I probably don't need a mold remediation company, but from the pictures, this seems like a lot. This is what we got from Chill Dudes, who were quite a bit less detailed than High Pressure: quote:OBSERVATIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS: Homeowners contacted Chill Dudes, a certified remediation company in the state of Washington, about a possible mold problem in the attic of their house in Seattle. The moisture content of the wood was slightly elevated. There is batting insulation that is blocking all of the soffit venting. Due to the prevalence of suspected organic growth that was discovered in my visual assessment, the following recommendations are offered (see scope of work below).Only further testing with surface sampling would definitively determine mold presence and type and resources for this service are available if wanted. High Pressure gave us a more details, including taking a bunch of pictures of the areas, and broke things down in more of a spreadsheet format: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ukufPyITJonuQa55J30aVrJUxD9C3AQb/edit?usp=drive_link&ouid=105749408790785361667&rtpof=true&sd=true Photos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/UpZnjomtF9YszNDD7 Looking at the estimates, the actual stuff they're doing from what we can tell seems pretty similar; High Pressure lists a lot more line items, but it seems like they're just being more specific while Chill Dudes is generalizing more (we did Google and it seems that "baffles" and "rafter vents" are the same thing; I hope that's correct, and we didn't gently caress it up). Or is H110Hawk right, and we should just handle this ourselves? Given that the discount from High Pressure expires on the seventh, any advice you all can give would be super helpful. Also, I think I did a deece job stripping out anything personally identifying or that identifies the companies, here, but please PM me if I missed anything.
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Mar 6, 2024 09:03
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