|
LanceHunter posted:First, I want to acknowledge that the mere mention of Grandy's created this immediate, intense sense memory of fried okra and country gravy. (And the nearest location is over 120 miles away! Same, but chicken strips, mashed potatoes and gravy. And those cinnamon rolls I used to pick the raisins out of. Surprised they're still around. I think Chick-Fil-A wage growth for management is also limited by company policies. IIRC corporate allows a franchisee to have no more than like 3 stores, so there really isn't a higher place to go after you hit store manager like there might be with other franchisee companies where they own dozens of McDonalds. Raskolnikov2089 fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Mar 5, 2024 |
#
?
Mar 5, 2024 20:25
|
|
)
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 23:10 |
|
|
Apparently Chick Fil A franchising is also fairly arduous since they control everything. Cheap to buy in but you have to do their program and they rotate you around without input on your end. Sat next to a dude at a wedding who was finishing up his rotations and while he ultimately opened a store in the city he wanted, it took a few years and stints across the US to do so.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2024 20:46
|
|
|
Chik Fil A franchisees are guaranteed a spot in heaven though. You can't put a price on that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2024 21:04
|
|
|
SpartanIvy posted:Chik Fil A franchisees are guaranteed a spot in heaven though. You can't put a price on that. Church of the SubGenius has already guaranteed me salvation or triple my money back. I think that's a better deal.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2024 21:21
|
|
|
but bob dobbs is dead
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2024 21:22
|
|
|
bob dobbs is dead posted:but bob dobbs is dead There is no greater post/username combo. How many years have you been waiting for this moment?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2024 22:03
|
|
|
7?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2024 22:07
|
|
|
bob dobbs is dead posted:but bob dobbs is dead
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2024 23:20
|
|
|
bob dobbs is dead posted:but bob dobbs is dead god tier post Content from GiP:
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 00:10
|
|
|
bob dobbs is dead posted:but bob dobbs is dead perfect
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 00:17
|
|
|
SpartanIvy posted:I go on a lot of vintage/historic homes tours and most of them have some variation of "The owner bought this house while they were working <low paying job by today's standards> in the 70s/80s" I mean, waitstaff at a higher end restaurant can easily clear $100k/year in tips. But, at the kind of place where people will drop $300 on lunch for two, not a Waffle House
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 00:21
|
|
|
Is income from tips something banks will let you use as income for mortgage underwriting purposes?
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 00:47
|
|
|
the ones on your w-2, sure. the cash that went into your pocket unreported, nope
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 00:48
|
|
|
SpartanIvy posted:Is income from tips something banks will let you use as income for mortgage underwriting purposes? couldn't you just demonstrate a running account balance of like 6 figures for 12 months though? That should be enough, surely
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 02:01
|
|
|
adnam posted:couldn't you just demonstrate a running account balance of like 6 figures for 12 months though? That should be enough, surely As someone who tried to get a mortgage while playing poker full time .... no, no, they don't like that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 02:04
|
|
|
adnam posted:couldn't you just demonstrate a running account balance of like 6 figures for 12 months though? That should be enough, surely Six figures doesn't count for much. Seven figures would probably get you there but you'd want to have a relationship with the bank writing the loan. I've worked with customers who have super lumpy income but a lot of money, its not going to be the cheapest loan out there but someone has the credit appetite for it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 02:47
|
|
|
bob dobbs is dead posted:but bob dobbs is dead congrats on your apotheosis
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 02:47
|
|
|
Raskolnikov2089 posted:I think Chick-Fil-A wage growth for management is also limited by company policies. IIRC corporate allows a franchisee to have no more than like 3 stores, so there really isn't a higher place to go after you hit store manager like there might be with other franchisee companies where they own dozens of McDonalds. Most franchisees can only have one store, it’s a recent development that they started letting top performers open additional ones. Owners have to work in the stores basically full-time, and it’s managing a seriously large team; they’ll have 80+ kids on staff at any given time, versus a McDs or other fast food franchise that tries to limit shifts to like, 4 people. The entry cost for CFA is low, but it’s incredibly competitive. Yes, you need to be appropriately religious (and prove it), but on top of that, with site selection being controlled by corporate, it’s not like you can open them left and right like Subways. I think I saw that the odds of getting a store is like 1/1000. But, top operators get great benefits. CFA has an annual cruise that they do every year for store owners where they have at least 2, if not 3 ships at sea. Top earners get rewards like cars, and can get them every year. There was a guy who had multiple corvettes and f150s, all gifted by corporate. So, while it’s not as traditionally GWM like a McDs franchise might be, it can be way safer with great perks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 03:18
|
|
|
Schiavona posted:Most franchisees can only have one store, it’s a recent development that they started letting top performers open additional ones. I've always wondered who the typical McDonald's (and I guess chik-fil-a) owner is. It seems like the type of person who is successful enough to save up the $1m or whatever to open a store probably wouldn't want to trade it for working as a manager in a fast food restaurant for 60-80 hours/week, but clearly I'm wrong.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 03:57
|
|
|
chik-fil-a buyin is 10 grand and the rest is loaned / rented to you by the company, so quite different from mcdonalds buyin of usually about 1-2 million
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 03:58
|
|
|
The guy who owns all the McDonald's in your area is probably the second richest small business owner after the guy who owns all the car dealerships in your area.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 04:36
|
|
|
Residency Evil posted:I've always wondered who the typical McDonald's (and I guess chik-fil-a) owner is. It seems like the type of person who is successful enough to save up the $1m or whatever to open a store probably wouldn't want to trade it for working as a manager in a fast food restaurant for 60-80 hours/week, but clearly I'm wrong. I think a lot of people get into franchising smaller places because they have illusions of grandeur thinking that they'll be able to hire a manager to manage their store while they play golf all day, not knowing that the life of a restaurant owner means 80 hour weeks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 04:39
|
|
|
Cerekk posted:The guy who owns all the McDonald's in your area is probably the second richest small business owner after the guy who owns all the car dealerships in your area. The car dealerships in my area are mostly owned by a Fortune 500 traded company, but yeah I'm sure the kids/grandkids were taken care of. I guess McDonalds is okay with an owner hiring managers for their stores after a certain point? edit: Boris Galerkin posted:I think a lot of people get into franchising smaller places because they have illusions of grandeur thinking that they'll be able to hire a manager to manage their store while they play golf all day, not knowing that the life of a restaurant owner means 80 hour weeks. Is this it? People buy franchises with dollar signs in their eyes, not knowing that most of them will never get to that point?
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 04:42
|
|
|
Cerekk posted:The guy who owns all the McDonald's in your area is probably the second richest small business owner after the guy who owns all the car dealerships in your area. This is absolutely true most anywhere that's not a major city or industrial hub. Any potentially is anyway for an individual who owns things rather than "corporation is worth a lot". I look at that and just think about having to deal with the general public that much means it's not worth it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 04:44
|
|
|
Boris Galerkin posted:I think a lot of people get into franchising smaller places because they have illusions of grandeur thinking that they'll be able to hire a manager to manage their store while they play golf all day, not knowing that the life of a restaurant owner means 80 hour weeks. I mean, yeah, sure, for the first couple years, but I am so savvy and good at this that I will open 4 more locations in the next five years and then the money machine will just run itself! One of my neighbors is in a franchise dispute with chick fil a. Her father has run a franchise for like 30 years and is wanting to retire and sell it to his daughter for her family to run. Corp says naah, if you're going to retire and sell it you're selling it to one of the people on our approved list.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 04:52
|
|
|
My friends experience with McD is that you aren't getting rich from the restaurant, (unless you own like 5). You typically make a middle class median wage for the work. The real riches come when you sell your franchise to the next
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 04:59
|
|
|
Then there’s Shaq who reportedly owns a high double digit/triple digit number of franchises
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 05:41
|
|
|
Residency Evil posted:I've always wondered who the typical McDonald's (and I guess chik-fil-a) owner is. It seems like the type of person who is successful enough to save up the $1m or whatever to open a store probably wouldn't want to trade it for working as a manager in a fast food restaurant for 60-80 hours/week, but clearly I'm wrong. I was buddies with a guy who owned four Burger Kings and a night club in Minneapolis. Dude knew Prince, which makes him one of the cooler guys on the planet. He was a typical rich hustling corporate guy though. Nothing special, that was just his niche that he spotted and filled in the city and made bank doing. He definitely wasn't frying burgers or doing anything else in the restaurants that I saw. He took on more of a moderately successful CEO role, I guess I would describe it?
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 07:01
|
|
|
franchises are a market for lemons. absolutely classic akerlof-style info asymmetry. therefore there are entire classes of restaurant chains that ostensibly look like restaurant chains and sell the food and all but in reality exist to scam franchisees mcdonalds is actually not one of them, they make money for the franchisees usually, but they're out there. subway in particular
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 07:03
|
|
bob dobbs is dead posted:franchises are a market for lemons. absolutely classic akerlof-style info asymmetry. therefore there are entire classes of restaurant chains that ostensibly look like restaurant chains and sell the food and all but in reality exist to scam franchisees Could you link a good article for me to learn about Akerlof asymmetry?
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 07:29
|
|
|
the original paper is a straightforward read https://www.sfu.ca/~wainwrig/Econ400/akerlof.pdf ignore the math, economists can't do math and often can't do empirics neither
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 07:33
|
|
|
okay. it's late so i could be off. but based on reading.. i'm not sure what an "akerlof asymmetry" is exactly. or if the paper relates to buying franchises his paper seems to say: there are markets in which information is asymmetric. (okay) in our best example of this, in a market of new cars, used cars, having both categories of good cars and lemons.. good cars and lemons all sell at the same price because why wouldn't people with "lemons" sell the car at the same price as good cars since no one can tell the difference? this actually hurts people with "good cars" since they cannot sell their car at a premium price because buyers cannot tell the difference between lemons and good cars. in this kind of market, where the buyer cannot tell about quality, what the buyer will do is accept only an "average price" that minimizes their financial risk. lemon sellers are happy because they're still getting more than they would if the buyer knew they were selling a lemon. but this drives "good cars" out of the market since they will never get their actual worth for their car. to be fair his explanation is a little bit hand-wavy but i assume this is because the people with good cars may just opt to not sell if they can't get a good price.. he has other examples of markets acting negatively towards "lemons" (including one about race that i'm not going to touch right before bed). but one specifically about how people over the age of 65 cannot get insurance and why there just isn't a price hike that will end up covering people over the age of 65. his statement is that as the price rises for insurance, the only people willing to pay are the "lemons" or people over the age of 65 with serious medical conditions. so anyone considered to be a good customer of this policy probably won't be in it (due to price) his solution is that 1 of 3 things need to exist in a market: a guarantee (warranty), having a brand name or chain that promotes reliability, and having licenses for the practice of that market. so i guess my question is: how does this pertain to the buying of franchises? it seems that while there is information asymmetry.. people in here already seem to know mcdonalds franchises are the more lucrative and subway ones and maybe even chik-fil-a franchises aren't as good... i mean assuming you mean just one type of chain's franchises like just mcdonald's franchises. it can be hard to figure out which mcdonald's are actually making money and ones that aren't. but wouldn't a buyer have access to the books before they actually purchased it? anyways this is my late night reading of it so maybe i'm not fully understanding it. but to me if it was a market like akerlof described, it would basically be non-existent as the "lemons" drive the non-lemons out of the market without some sort of protection.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 09:23
|
|
|
Strong Sauce posted:
I think OP's point is that some franchises are good and some are dogshit and the bad ones use that information advantage to take advantage of unsophisticated by buyers. But I also think you're right that this doesn't exactly match the classic "market for lemons" model, because in that model sellers of the good product are also harmed by having their product undervalued. Everyone suffers except the scam sellers, which is why intervention by a government regulator is usually needed. It's not really clear that valuable franchise sellers are having their prices depressed because scam franchise sellers are also in the market. It may be a similar but not the same situation of: Unscrupulous sellers appear as a sort of parasitic market targeting unsophisticated buyers who can't afford the good and desirable product, but sophisticated buyers can still tell the difference. A similar situation might be the market for knockoff luxury watches. Sophisticated buyers who actually care about quality can avoid them, and the price of a genuine Rolex isn't driven down to the average of all nice looking watches. However, there's still plenty of people selling dogshit knockoffs to unsophisticated buyers or people who can't afford a genuine one. It's a little.bitnof an awkward comparison because I can't imagine someone buying a Subway shop for social prestige the way someone buys a knockoff Rolex... But then again this is the BWM thread.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 10:17
|
|
|
SpartanIvy posted:Chik Fil A franchisees are guaranteed a spot in heaven though. You can't put a price on that. Seems like you can, though, it's about $10,000.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 10:46
|
|
|
bob dobbs is dead posted:there are entire classes of restaurant chains that ostensibly look like restaurant chains and sell the food and all but in reality exist to scam franchisees In the Netherlands this is/was Papa Johns. Some guy franchised the rights from the US business for the entire country (this is actually quite common, McDonalds NL operates the same way), and then went looking for local franchisees. He ended up pitching Papa John's franchises mainly to Turkish entrepreneurs with little access to credit so they could overburden them loans and completely gently caress them in every way. One of them was on the news telling his whole story and said "I'm already 300k in debt to Papa Johns, I don't care about a 25k fine for breaking the NDA anymore." Those Turkish franchisees came together to sue Papa John's NL, but I haven't heard anything since then. I can only find a public verdict in a case where PJ Europe sued a franchisee for not inputting his cash sales into the POS system (probably because he wanted to avoid PJ taking their cut). So it probably got either settled, or stuck in the courts during the pandemic
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 10:54
|
|
|
Sir, this is a franchisee owned Wendy's.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 14:23
|
|
|
Democratic Pirate posted:Apparently Chick Fil A franchising is also fairly arduous since they control everything. Cheap to buy in but you have to do their program and they rotate you around without input on your end. Sat next to a dude at a wedding who was finishing up his rotations and while he ultimately opened a store in the city he wanted, it took a few years and stints across the US to do so. That seems like a lot of work to serve Very Okay fried chicken. Don’t get me wrong - it’s not bad. But it’s not especially good. I don’t get why people wait in line like 2 hours for it (PNW has this problem at lunch time).
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 14:29
|
|
|
the point isn't to make fried chicken its to get paid
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 14:45
|
|
|
Democratic Pirate posted:Then there’s Shaq who reportedly owns a high double digit/triple digit number of franchises There's a big difference between the dude who owns one franchise and probably has to manage it himself, and the already rich dude who buys them as a way to have turn-key income. If you stumble backwards into a few tens of millions of dollars the right franchises can be a pretty solid way to have a good income stream and tie your money up into an asset that generally appreciates in value. At that point you're just hiring people/a company to manage them for you, though, and you're purely the source of capital. See also: people who buy 5-10 investment properties and rent them out while outsourcing the day to day property management.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 14:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 23:10 |
|
rufius posted:That seems like a lot of work to serve Very Okay fried chicken. I’ve got a post around here somewhere about this; it’s partly a combo of conservative political identity, subservient staff and creepy investment crossover from churches.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 15:02
|
|