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Cythereal posted:Daeran is in fact a piece of poo poo and the game makes no bones about it. Which is the main reason I like him as a character (I personally prefer him over Astarion from BG3). If they tried to justify his behaviour, give him some redemption arc, suggest that he has a heart of gold hidden somewhere deep, I would dislike it, but no, he's a dick, he knows it, he embraces it and game does not pretend otherwise. I think the only person he's nice for is Ember. achtungnight posted:I personally don’t see Nenio as asexual, just not attracted to the player. But others are free to indulge their own preferences, I suppose. I could swear that during one of her personal quests she states that she sees intercourse purely as a scientific matter and nothing else.
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Mar 5, 2024 22:48
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I like Astarion more then Daeran, but a lot of that probably comes down to the incredible performance by Astarion's actor and he's probably the single best overall character in that game. Daeran's still really great and I've used them pretty heavily in every playthrough I did of Wrath except for Angel.
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Mar 5, 2024 23:20
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Szarrukin posted:
I must have missed that, but then this game has lots of dialogue I haven't seen. I was basing my opinion on what she says in response to your friend zoning her in another personal quest. But I suppose that could come across as ace also and I am inserting my own personal bias again. 
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Mar 5, 2024 23:29
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Things I never thought I'd say in this LP: I personally am electing to not worry about Nenio's sexuality. I'll make note of it if she volunteers the information but as it is she is not a romance option in the game and I am not interested in having Yua try. The other character vets are thinking of, I do know explicitly states that they have no interest in nudity, sexuality, or romantic affection.
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Mar 6, 2024 00:00
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I like Nenio's gimmick, but I can see how someone would get absolutely sick of it 50 hours in
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Mar 6, 2024 00:30
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I can't really say anything for Nino as a person but she seems like a lot of fun. I can see how the gimmick would get annoying but mostly I find it interesting, especially since I personally don't know all that much about the setting so I'm learning just as much as she is. Or well, less since she already knows most of this stuff, but I enjoy getting that knowledge and lore.
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Mar 6, 2024 02:18
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I read all of Nenio's dialogue with a Southern affectation because she calls me "boy" at every interaction and that's how people talk around here.
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Mar 6, 2024 13:45
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Vargatron posted:I read all of Nenio's dialogue with a Southern affectation because she calls me "boy" at every interaction and that's how people talk around here. She calls you by your gender because she doesn't bother to remember people's names.
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Mar 6, 2024 14:11
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ChaosStar0 posted:She calls you by your gender because she doesn't bother to remember people's names. Yes, I know. It's just funny how it reads in my head. Edit: I've played through the whole game just about. I'm just not posting spoilers to points to where the LP hasn't got to yet. Vargatron fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Mar 6, 2024 |
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Mar 6, 2024 14:16
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Vargatron posted:I read all of Nenio's dialogue with a Southern affectation because she calls me "boy" at every interaction and that's how people talk around here. She doesn't call anyone 'sugar' or 'honey' so she doesn't match Southern mannerisms for my part of the South.
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Mar 6, 2024 15:23
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Cythereal posted:She doesn't call anyone 'sugar' or 'honey' so she doesn't match Southern mannerisms for my part of the South. Yeah I know. It's just a Me thing lol.
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Mar 6, 2024 17:19
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I’m intrigued as to why you put ‘no’ for Nenio’s fixability.
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Mar 6, 2024 21:15
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She doesn't need fixing. And not all character development is fixing.
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Mar 6, 2024 21:18
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AJ_Impy posted:I’m intrigued as to why you put ‘no’ for Nenio’s fixability. Personally I’m not sure what “can I fix this character?” means. Personality improvement is a matter of opinion. I’ve seen a lot of character builds out there that improve characters in various ways. But for this, what exactly are we trying to fix? If the OP wants to answer, of course.
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Mar 6, 2024 21:20
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AJ_Impy posted:I’m intrigued as to why you put ‘no’ for Nenio’s fixability. I'm using that mostly as a 'Can this character's personality and behavior change in noteworthy ways based on your actions?' And with Nenio, the answer is a firm no. You can find out why she is the way that she is (in part, at any rate) and how she wound up in this position, but she's still going to be Nenio and she's still going to act like she did when you first met her.
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Mar 6, 2024 21:23
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That’s reasonable.
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Mar 6, 2024 21:25
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Yeah, that explanation makes sense for me too. Thanks.
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Mar 6, 2024 21:27
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I thought that line was about making their character builds work better, crunchy-mechanics-wise and all those NPCs with the "no" answear just had irrepairably bad character sheets like completely wrong feats or ability scores.
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Mar 6, 2024 23:32
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Kanthulhu posted:I thought that line was about making their character builds work better, crunchy-mechanics-wise and all those NPCs with the "no" answear just had irrepairably bad character sheets like completely wrong feats or ability scores. Ah, no. Actually, most characters in Wrath can do perfectly fine taking their starting class straight to 20. Woljiff is the closest we've come so far to a mediocre companion, and even then he's mostly just a victim of 'There's another class/kit that can do everything his starting one does but better.'
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Mar 6, 2024 23:38
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Woljiff is kind of a victim of his class being a caster variant of the rogue class, but losing a lot of the single class features that makes rogue so powerful. He can be an extremely powerful tank if prestiged to a Duelist, but it doesn't really take off until late game.
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Mar 7, 2024 02:45
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Cythereal posted:Woljiff is the closest we've come so far to a mediocre companion, and even then he's mostly just a victim of 'There's another class/kit that can do everything his starting one does but better.' If you're talking about Arcane Trickster, then no. Arcane Trickster is for casters who want some rogue features. Eldritch Scoundrel is meant to be a Rogue with spells to buff himself. Very different playstyles.
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Mar 7, 2024 03:12
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ChaosStar0 posted:If you're talking about Arcane Trickster, then no. Arcane Trickster is for casters who want some rogue features. Eldritch Scoundrel is meant to be a Rogue with spells to buff himself. Very different playstyles. I was talking about Vivisectionist.
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Mar 7, 2024 03:16
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Cythereal posted:I was talking about Vivisectionist. I don't see it. Vivisectionist is vastly different from Eldritch Scoundrel. Yes, it has full sneak attack progression, but it doesn't really take advantage of that with its mixtures. Eldritch Scoundrel has access to the Wizard spellbook, which has many better buffing spells than the Alchemist spellbook. Alchemist don't get Greater Heroism, the Mass Stat Spells, Protection from Alignment, and even extremely useful CC spells like Sleep and Grease. What they get instead looks to be healing, which is something Woljif shouldn't be doing as you have companions better suited to that. Vivisectionists also don't get Rogue Talents, Trap Sense, Debilitating Injury, Evasion. Really, Vivisectionist and Eldritch Scoundrel have almost nothing in common with each other except being sneak attackers who can cast spells.
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Mar 7, 2024 05:41
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Alchemists don’t get Grease? That’s unfortunate. Then again, you don’t exactly need that spell often on low difficulty. Still nice to have, though.
achtungnight fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Mar 7, 2024 |
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Mar 7, 2024 09:44
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For anyone who hasn't played these games: not being able to pick up Grease is a pretty serious problem for a combat caster. Basically, if your first-level arcane casters are not completely filling their spell list with grease, you have nobody but yourself to blame any time you lose a fight. Grease is, without exception, the best low-level combat spell. It doesn't care about your hit dice, it persists round to round to continue applying its debuff even if your enemies make the reflex save the first time, and it lasts an absolutely ridiculous, completely crazy one minute per caster level. It does the most horrible thing you can do to an enemy, which is to take away their turn, not to mention that your melee can now slice them up more or less with impunity and get even more damage when the enemy stands up because standing up provokes opportunity attacks. As long as you can be careful not to put it where it gets in your way, there basically aren't any downsides. Cast it in every fight you have any problems with unless the enemies are immune to it due to flight or having hundreds of legs. That said, I wouldn't see a vivisectionist as a combat caster per se; feels like it's better suited to self-buffs and physical sneak attack damage, especially considering mutagen. (Which presumably is why the comparison with eldritch scoundrels, who do also serve that role.) Having access to some healing on top of that isn't bad.
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Mar 7, 2024 14:00
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Grease is good. PnP alchemists can get grease as a discovery for their bombs, but I guess that didn't make it into the game.
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Mar 7, 2024 14:14
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Vivi is absolutely a better "rogue + caster" then Eldritch Scoundrel. Alchemist imo has better combat buffs in its spell list, but even if you disagree there, alchemist has full access to mutagens and the upgrades to that. The wizard spellbook isn't terrible for buffs, but the alchemist spellbook has most of the same buffs, and arcane spellbook in general is more built around things that require you focus on their primary casting attribute, whereas a vivi can focus on their combat attribute and not worry about their spell DCs. Like, yeah, vivisectionist doesn't get grease. But Woljif is a rogue, so his save DC is never going to be high enough to be your primary control spell caster anyways. And if it was, then he'd be better served as a full caster, not a rogue with some caster ability. That said we already have our champion grease caster, and her name is Nenio. Throw selective spell on that bad boy and it makes Act 1 into easy mode almost regardless of difficulty (Unfair remains unfair, don't play Unfair difficulty).
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Mar 7, 2024 16:11
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Do this system really need 3 different sneaky mage classes?
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Mar 7, 2024 16:16
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Gun Jam posted:Do this system really need 3 different sneaky mage classes? Welcome to Pathfinder in general and Owlcat in particular.
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Mar 7, 2024 16:17
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Vivisectionist isn't really a sneaky class - they don't even get Stealth as a class skill - they're just a good damage dealing class that happens to do so via sneak attack. But yeah, Cythereal posted:Welcome to Pathfinder in general and Owlcat in particular. when you're talking about 26 base classes and closing in on ~180 archetypes of those base classes, there absolutely will be overlap.
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Mar 7, 2024 17:01
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I don't think Kingmaker had any NPCs with an archetype, except maybe one or two. Pretty much every NPC except a couple have an archetype in WOTR.
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Mar 7, 2024 17:15
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Fortunately, we've now full up on companions who join during Act 1 unless you count mercenaries, which I'll demonstrate later. All told, they cover a good set of niches. Seelah is a tanky (insofar as that means anything in this game) front line fighter. Cammy is an excellent front line damage dealer with absurd support capability. Lann and Wenduag are murder machines at range. Woljiff is a glass cannon at range or in melee and can buff himself. Ember and Nenio are both powerful spellcasters with a mix of directly offensive and support spells. Daeran is a healer and buffbot par excellence. Future companions are mostly going to be variations on these roles rather than bringing anything particularly new to the table. And anyone with a high trickery skill (Woljiff and Cammy by default of the companions we have right now, and Seelah can be developed into it if you want) can cover the traditional thief locks and traps duties.
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Mar 7, 2024 17:24
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Vargatron posted:I don't think Kingmaker had any NPCs with an archetype, except maybe one or two. Pretty much every NPC except a couple have an archetype in WOTR.
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Mar 7, 2024 17:38
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Vargatron posted:I don't think Kingmaker had any NPCs with an archetype, except maybe one or two. Pretty much every NPC except a couple have an archetype in WOTR. 5-10 out of the 12-19, depending on path and decisions you make, companions have the base kit. That's actually a big amount. 5 Base, 4 in the Lich path, 1 in Angel, Aeon, Legend, or Gold Dragon paths
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Mar 7, 2024 18:02
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Gun Jam posted:Do this system really need 3 different sneaky mage classes? 
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Mar 7, 2024 20:14
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Fun fact: there's a unique racial kit for every single race in the game! Some of them are things you might expect, like kitsune's Nine-Tailed Heir, but there's a few curveballs in the mix as well like halfling's Knight of the Paw - a cavalier kit themed around riding a wolf (or oversized dog as you prefer).
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Mar 7, 2024 20:17
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Archetypes exist basically to enable slapping the cool bits of classes onto each other without explicitly multiclassing (and typically, then multiclassing). Common ones include giving arcane casters a sorcerer/bloodrager bloodline, enabling a pet/mount, applying sneak attack unconventionally, changing the main stat of attack and AC scaling, and especially giving part of a class' unique thing to other classes (judgements, mutagens, spell lists, etc).
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Mar 7, 2024 20:30
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Vivisectionist exist mostly for multiclassing and meta builds, to the point that "dip Vivi" is a meme in Owlcat fanbase.
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Mar 7, 2024 20:41
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I find archetypes to generally be a great idea, though the execution can vary depending on the class and archetype in question. Especially if something vital to the class is chopped off for something else in the archetype. Overall I think I prefer the way 5E does it where a subclass basically serves as an enhancer for the base class.
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Mar 7, 2024 21:00
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Cythereal posted:Fun fact: there's a unique racial kit for every single race in the game! Okay, I'm gonna roll one of these next game.
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Mar 7, 2024 21:01
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