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Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Miriam is a grade-a jerk, but so is everybody else :shrug: She has a funny face turn as the game plot progresses, depending on one's point of view

(SMAC talk! See previous page)

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ScootsMcSkirt
Oct 29, 2013

video games

Fun Times!
Dec 26, 2010

Bold of you to say.

TuxedoOrca
Feb 6, 2024
My first victory in the game was as Morgan.

Mierenneuker
Apr 28, 2010


We're all going to experience changes in our life but only the best of us will qualify for front row seats.

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/12360/view/4148449764353159269

quote:

This new Collector's Edition of FlatOut Ultimate Carnage contains bug fixes, achievements, improved loading times, cloud saves, more languages, and digital goodies; all free for the original owners of FlatOut: Ultimate Carnage!

Kennel
May 1, 2008

BAWWW-UNH!
Hell yeah, I think it's been at least 10 years since I last played it.

Spalec
Apr 16, 2010
Command and Conquer: Red Alert 2 still absolutely whips. That intro movie is so good, I wish more games had FMV briefings where they get mid-level Hollywood actors to chew the poo poo out of the scenery.

Squiggle
Sep 29, 2002

I don't think she likes the special sauce, Rick.


Ray Wise rules as the president and with that and Twin Peaks I had to explain why I got so excited at Robin's dad during a How I Met Your Mother marathon with my wife

Magitek
Feb 20, 2008

That's not jolly.
That's not jolly at all!
I love the term "nerve stapling". It's never explicitly explained what it is, only that it's something you do to suppress a population and that it's considered an atrocity. Marvelous.

Leal
Oct 2, 2009

Magitek posted:

I love the term "nerve stapling". It's never explicitly explained what it is, only that it's something you do to suppress a population and that it's considered an atrocity. Marvelous.

They point the stapler at you and press it in so it fires a staple at you, which gets on your nerves. So you do what they say cause you don't want to be annoyed.

Megazver
Jan 13, 2006
They elaborated on it in the tabletop RPG sourcebook for Alpha Centauri:

https://alphacentauri.fandom.com/wiki/Nerve_stapling

Propaganda Hour
Aug 25, 2008



after editing wikipedia as a joke for 16 years, i ve convinced myself that homer simpson's japanese name translates to the "The beer goblin"
The nerve stapler is how Master Chief's suit jacks him off

Azran
Sep 3, 2012

And what should one do to be remembered?
Is there anything to do in AC7 after you're done with the campaign?

Orv
May 4, 2011
Do it again but on a higher difficulty and more betterer.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

credburn posted:

The one part of AC I could never get into was the customization of units. It was kind of a selling point when it came out, but it was always just way too much fiddling around for something that, in most cases (all cases?) the default version was the best anyway.

This is always what kills games for me. Endless Space being a great example where combat is already such a shitshow of interlocked abstractions, and then one is needing to customize your ships. But naturally the game gives limited guidance on how to approach it.

It always feels like an optimization exercise with one objectively correct answer, give or take a few "if you know what you're doing you can break the game" alternatives, but it's all cloaked in cruft.

But then 4X games have always done a poor job of explaining how to actually play, and apparently I'm the one motherfucker who likes pew pew spaceships but has zero interest in designing my own.

Orv
May 4, 2011
People scream when 4X's don't let you build your own units and then once a 4X is out for a few months the building is solved and everyone hates that there's an optimal solution. It is the eternal cycle.

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me



i loving hate building my own spaceships in a 4x. that poo poo's for engineers not the abstract representation of a collective will, get it outta here.

Kennel
May 1, 2008

BAWWW-UNH!

Ghostlight posted:

i loving hate building my own spaceships in a 4x. that poo poo's for engineers not the abstract representation of a collective will, get it outta here.

Agreed. The worst part of any strategy game (that has it)

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Edmond Dantes posted:

Man, what a time to be alive, look at some of the names in those reviews:



God, I devoured every PC Gamer back then. I'd hungrily read reviews for games that I knew I wouldn't actually enjoy playing because I loved reading people who DID like those types of games gushing over them. There was an older writer (he was probably like 45 or something, haha) who exclusively wrote about war games, most of which I knew I'd find frustrating or unappealing to play but the guy just loved them so much, you know? :shobon:

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Orv posted:

People scream when 4X's don't let you build your own units and then once a 4X is out for a few months the building is solved and everyone hates that there's an optimal solution. It is the eternal cycle.

Ghostlight posted:

i loving hate building my own spaceships in a 4x. that poo poo's for engineers not the abstract representation of a collective will, get it outta here.

Kennel posted:

Agreed. The worst part of any strategy game (that has it)

I honestly thought I was in a minority of one because of how common those systems are.

Leal
Oct 2, 2009
My chronic newgamieitus makes it a real pain in games with individual unit customization. At least let me save presets for future use.

Akratic Method
Mar 9, 2013

It's going to pay off eventually--I'm sure of it.

Any day now.

credburn posted:

The one part of AC I could never get into was the customization of units. It was kind of a selling point when it came out, but it was always just way too much fiddling around for something that, in most cases (all cases?) the default version was the best anyway.

You are 90% correct but it was nice to have special units for dealing with lategame mind worm explosions, and also I fuckin loved slapping orbital drop gear on colony pods to just dump a forward operating base on the front line.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?
So long as there are passable and usable templates and I can just slap another kind of gun on there or whatever, I don't mind.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

John Murdoch posted:

This is always what kills games for me. Endless Space being a great example where combat is already such a shitshow of interlocked abstractions, and then one is needing to customize your ships. But naturally the game gives limited guidance on how to approach it.

It always feels like an optimization exercise with one objectively correct answer, give or take a few "if you know what you're doing you can break the game" alternatives, but it's all cloaked in cruft.

But then 4X games have always done a poor job of explaining how to actually play, and apparently I'm the one motherfucker who likes pew pew spaceships but has zero interest in designing my own.

ES2 just finalized a big patch that changes combat balance a lot, ship building is kinda fun now as you build specialized ships in teamwork-themed flotillas.

The game's other issue, being that computer players aren't good at it and can be steamrolled, makes this all rather academic, but at least ship building is no longer an obscured nor solved puzzle. Probably has some good multiplayer legs?

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Serephina posted:

ES2 just finalized a big patch that changes combat balance a lot, ship building is kinda fun now as you build specialized ships in teamwork-themed flotillas.

The game's other issue, being that computer players aren't good at it and can be steamrolled, makes this all rather academic, but at least ship building is no longer an obscured nor solved puzzle. Probably has some good multiplayer legs?

I will say I was primarily talking about ES1 because that's the only of the three Endless 4Xes I've ever manged to tinker with at all. :v: But it's good to hear they've gone back and tinkered with things in 2.

Ironically I also feel like Endless Legend's unit equipping, despite being largely the same idea, doesn't irk me as much in concept. Maybe I'm irrationally biased against weight limits vs. abstract item slots. Of course, from everything I've heard, EL's combat still isn't exactly uh...good, so it's kind of a wash.

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





I really like Age of Wonders 4. I think it's one of the better 4Xs out there.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?
'Summerhouse' just came out and it's a really cute little toy where you build lovely places out of parts. Worth a couple of bucks.

Tiny Timbs
Sep 6, 2008

John Murdoch posted:

I honestly thought I was in a minority of one because of how common those systems are.

Same. I figured people must go nuts for them but they’re an instant turnoff for me.

Artelier
Jan 23, 2015


Last year, I got Spin Rhythm and didn't gel with it. I tried it out for like 20-30 minutes but my brain just couldn't get into how the gameplay worked.

Fast forward to this morning while I was deleting games I haven't touched in a while and was like "Hmm let's take this for a spin try it out before deleting just in case I like it now." Lo and behold, that time away for like a year made me suddenly "get" the game and I was blazing through the levels, at least on the default settings. Now I'm suddenly obsessed and keep wanting to play it (in between Helldivers 2 and Balatro and Tekken 8). Brain why you like this.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

John Murdoch posted:

I honestly thought I was in a minority of one because of how common those systems are.

Master of Orion (the first one from 1993) was roughly co-occurrent with Civilization (again the first one), and they became the big names of 4Xs back then. In the first MoO, ship design was a fairly big part of the game mechanics because as one goes up the tech tree, upgrading ships was one of the 'rewards' from a game design perspective. Then Master of Orion 2 (1996) went wild with the concept, and gave the player a bunch of goofy super-weapons, or just plain goofy weapons, and against the dumb AI one could have large variety in viable ship builds*. Add to this that pew pew space ships in MoO2 are sort of expensive to make, so one typically had relatively few ships compared to the thousands and more in MoO, whereby ships could seem more like "individuals" in the tactical pew pew combat phase. Plus, the player could capture enemy ships, although in practice this was a novelty since the most efficient use of these was stealing technologies rather than using the usually pretty uninspired AI ship designs, but the concept was there all the same.

Now add in a bunch of cranky fans forming the basis of the 4X crowd, and inevitably the game design crowd, the general tendency of cargo culting in any human activity, and ship designers in pew pew map space painting games becomes the norm.

Anyway that's my theory! :colbert:

*Of course the PvP community min-maxed poo poo and optimal builds were found, but I think this is inevitable with any kind of hog-wild customization system

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー
Ooh, speaking thereof, apparently I only played 6 minutes of the new Master or Orion and refunded it, so I musta had technical issues. Was it any good, in hindsight?

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem
So yeah, Hong Kong Massacre really isn't very good. I even reinstalled Hotline Miami and it just threw into stark relief how much better made it is in pretty much every way.

FutureCop
Jun 7, 2011

Have you heard of Fermat's principle?

Mordja posted:

So yeah, Hong Kong Massacre really isn't very good. I even reinstalled Hotline Miami and it just threw into stark relief how much better made it is in pretty much every way.

Yep, similar experience. I was hoping for a short n sweet 'Max Payne meets Stranglehold meets Hotline Miami' experience and was very underwhelmed, and immediately reinstalled Hotline Miami to see if I was crazy or not. Maybe I would've enjoyed it back in the day, but the bar has been raised significantly since then. I haven't tried it yet, but I imagine the ideal game to go for instead is OTXO.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Master of Orion 2 is one of the GOATs and it's very funny to me that they put a civ of blue skinned telepathic space amazons into that game and seem vaguely ashamed at that ever since. Like, oh we'll never be a respectable sci-fi IP if we have blue-skinned space babes. We'd better sweep them under the rug and put on our sunday best for Master of Orion 3! The one where you automate away a bunch of your empire management decision making because otherwise you're fiddling with a bunch of boring minutae and whose story shat on what little few narrative elements existed in the most popular game in the franchise.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

The telepathic amazons are back in the 2016 MoO, as are all the "animal" races MoO3/Rantz wanted to and did nuke from orbit. They even changed the Jewish caricature race from MoO2 into miniature space cows instead :allears:

Serephina posted:

Ooh, speaking thereof, apparently I only played 6 minutes of the new Master or Orion and refunded it, so I musta had technical issues. Was it any good, in hindsight?

It's a graphical and GUI upgrade to MoO2 with some really baffling dumbing down of the gameplay. I've played it a bunch, but without the nostalgia goggles, probably not worth it if you're just looking for a pew pew space 4X.

There's also a fan-made free modernized GUI version of the original Master of Orion (I am not affiliated with the creator in any way)

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Rappaport posted:

The telepathic amazons are back in the 2016 MoO, as are all the "animal" races MoO3/Rantz wanted to and did nuke from orbit. They even changed the Jewish caricature race from MoO2 into miniature space cows instead :allears:

It's a graphical and GUI upgrade to MoO2 with some really baffling dumbing down of the gameplay. I've played it a bunch, but without the nostalgia goggles, probably not worth it if you're just looking for a pew pew space 4X.

There's also a fan-made free modernized GUI version of the original Master of Orion (I am not affiliated with the creator in any way)

lmao nice

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004

Internet Explorer posted:

I really like Age of Wonders 4. I think it's one of the better 4Xs out there.

I need to play this one still. Song of Conquest is the next 4x game I am looking forward to. Its basically a spiritual sequel to Heroes of Might & Magic 3.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー
I really wanna play AoW4, but it's system reqs are too high for me to fake it, especially when taking the performance hit of running things through Proton.

Why are these people making amazing turn-based games with crazy gfx needs?! Like cater to those with potato PCs, know your audience please!

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:
I liked the unit customisation in Sword of the Stars (both 1 and 2), but there the combat is a major focus and the impact of weapons is very clear. The tech tree in those games also consists of very meaningful upgrades, none of that 5% to the damage of energy weapons bullshit you get elsewhere.

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exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."


Internet Explorer posted:

I really like Age of Wonders 4. I think it's one of the better 4Xs out there.

Correct.

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