|
Kavros posted:I suggest that "needed zero hour outside help for surety backing of a ~100m bond while a ~500m bond is imminently closing in" is a pretty bad outside indicator of his condition. He's cash poor. The conventional wis...er..."wisdom" was that Trump was cash poor, his properties were leveraged to hell and back, and no one with an ounce of financial and/or common sense would give him the loans necessary to fund an appeal. Now he's convinced a seemingly reputable company to front the Carroll appeal money and it's a matter of time before Elon or some other galaxy brained billionaire gives him the half a billion necessary to appeal the big bond. I get that they're betting on the idea that Trump wins and those judgements will be unenforceable against a sitting President, and they'll be able to gain major favor from President Trump for being loyal to him in his time of need (lol). Even if they end up being enforceable, Trump will no longer care; he'll be President until his end of days. So, once again, Heads Trump wins Tails we lose.
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 22:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 10:55 |
|
|
These are civil judgments in state court. There is no possible argument or mechanism by which the federal government can annul them, and if that happens then the Republic is dead anyway (which it might well be dying, I'll grant you).
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 22:40
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure Carroll is gonna have money in her account way before the election. The appeal isn't going to take 8 months.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 22:45
|
|
|
Kavros posted:I suggest that "needed zero hour outside help for surety backing of a ~100m bond while a ~500m bond is imminently closing in" is a pretty bad outside indicator of his condition. He's cash poor. The general notion is dismay that there's yet another safety net available to him that would not be available to anyone else, and it's becoming clear that he'll never run out of people / organizations / governments / corporations willing to eat poo poo on his behalf. I think people are generally bemoaning that yes, he lost big in court but somehow yet again he's going to be bailed out and not have to really suffer any consequences because there's an infinite line of "sure I'll take a bullet for Trump in exchange for nothing" suckers / corrupt assholes waiting in the wings.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 22:49
|
|
|
FLIPADELPHIA posted:The general notion is dismay that there's yet another safety net available to him that would not be available to anyone else, and it's becoming clear that he'll never run out of people / organizations / governments / corporations willing to eat poo poo on his behalf. I think people are generally bemoaning that yes, he lost big in court but somehow yet again he's going to be bailed out and not have to really suffer any consequences because there's an infinite line of "sure I'll take a bullet for Trump in exchange for nothing" suckers / corrupt assholes waiting in the wings. This isn't a bailout. No one was ever going to give him an unsecured loan. This isn't in exchange for nothing. This is in exchange for his property. He gave them some sort of valuable property as collateral, and if he loses and can't pay them back then they keep the property and sell it off to pay what he owes them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 23:56
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:This isn't a bailout. And we will never see publicly whether any of that ever happens. I guess unless somebody buys Trump Tower suddenly or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 00:07
|
|
|
mdemone posted:And we will never see publicly whether any of that ever happens. I guess unless somebody buys Trump Tower suddenly or whatever. I'm pretty sure the details of the bond will be public record.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 00:17
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:This isn't a bailout. I do kinda wonder what the ability of the lender would be to claim the security against an active current president is. Probably fully effective given the Clinton precedent. This isn't conduct related to office.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 00:28
|
|
|
FLIPADELPHIA posted:The general notion is dismay that there's yet another safety net available to him that would not be available to anyone else, and it's becoming clear that he'll never run out of people / organizations / governments / corporations willing to eat poo poo on his behalf. I think people are generally bemoaning that yes, he lost big in court but somehow yet again he's going to be bailed out and not have to really suffer any consequences because there's an infinite line of "sure I'll take a bullet for Trump in exchange for nothing" suckers / corrupt assholes waiting in the wings. This isn't a safety net situation — we're not talking about a bailout, this is someone underwriting his bond payment for appeal. Nobody's taking a bullet for him, they're trading up a shot at any unleveraged holdings in exchange for posting the bond to Ms. Carroll's absolutely assured payout. This does not preclude someone eventually taking the bullet for him in the future by paying off the settlements in full to prevent a cascade leverage failure of Trump's property holdings, but within a matter of days, that moves up by about a half a billion dollars, leaving the question of what group is both willing and able to sink that kind of money to keep their god-king afloat for now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 00:30
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:I do kinda wonder what the ability of the lender would be to claim the security against an active current president is. Probably fully effective given the Clinton precedent. This isn't conduct related to office. Trump gives the White House to E Jean Carroll and smugly says that Mar-a-Lago was the real white house as far as he's concerned.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 00:31
|
|
|
Sure I get that this money isn't just free cash he gets. But it's impossible to argue that this is not a form of safety net for him. How in the world would anyone think he's trustworthy or that they can get a dollar out of him when he's spent 50 plus years avoiding having to pay anything. So far no one has, and I'm skeptical that will change. It just very much seems like this is the can getting kicked down the road yet again in terms of consequences for him.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 01:41
|
|
|
FLIPADELPHIA posted:It just very much seems like this is the can getting kicked down the road yet again in terms of consequences for him. CHUBB issues marine policies for yachts. On the very high end the hull and machinery policy for a yacht is less about the yacht and more about the finances of the yachts buyer. They really in detail probe into the finances of the very very rich because even the very very rich can ruin themselves with too much yacht (yearly ongoing costs are general 10% of initial purchase price from the shipyard). Anyway the point. If CHUBB gave him the money, they’ve had a third party that doesn’t give a gently caress give then the honest assessment of his finances at some point.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 02:00
|
|
|
FLIPADELPHIA posted:Sure I get that this money isn't just free cash he gets. But it's impossible to argue that this is not a form of safety net for him. How in the world would anyone think he's trustworthy or that they can get a dollar out of him when he's spent 50 plus years avoiding having to pay anything. Posting a bond for the amount of the judgment before allowing an appeal is standard practice. I don't get what special treatment you think Trump is getting. You seem to be assuming that Chubb just gave him $100M for the bond. That is not what happened.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 02:05
|
|
|
Which means what, they’re confident that he really does have $100 million of recoverable collateral?
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 02:05
|
|
|
haveblue posted:Which means what, they’re confident that he really does have $100 million of recoverable collateral? It means a surity bond underwriter (Federal Insurance Co.) sold Trump a policy. It’s a bit different than insurance underwriting but what I’m seeing is they expect to get paid back and their underwriting folks should have verified his ability to do that before proceeding.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 02:16
|
|
|
haveblue posted:Which means what, they’re confident that he really does have $100 million of recoverable collateral? Was there any real doubt? The question was never "Does he have $100 million worth of assets?", it was "Can he come up with $100 million in cash on a very short timeline?".
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 02:25
|
|
|
I guess CHUBB had an easier time of analyzing Trump’s actual financial status than DB did, because so much of it has been entered into evidence recently
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 02:26
|
|
|
Subjunctive posted:I guess CHUBB had an easier time of analyzing Trump’s actual financial status than DB did, because so much of it has been entered into evidence recently They’re different types of capital. DB is a banker CHUBB is an insurer / underwriter. They approach things differently
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 02:30
|
|
|
The bond buys Trump time to come up with the whole $83M. For 10% of that, FIC will guarantee the whole thing so the appeal can proceed. Once the appeals are exhausted and the final judgment rendered, Trump still has to come up with the $83M. If he doesn't, FIC will pay it and then go after Trump for it. It's not a special situation. It's FIC's business model. It's how appeal bonds work. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24467616-trump-bond
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 02:31
|
|
|
Sure. And appeals will last far past the election and then it will be 'whoops! presidents don't have rules' again.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 02:53
|
|
|
Bar Ran Dun posted:It means a surity bond underwriter (Federal Insurance Co.) sold Trump a policy. Bar Ran Dun posted:they expect to get paid back lol. lmao even. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 03:31
|
|
|
I am less sure that Trump secured the bond. It's possible that someone else guaranteed it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 03:47
|
|
|
mutata posted:Sure. And appeals will last far past the election and then it will be 'whoops! presidents don't have rules' again. Trump will not be winning the November election.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 04:49
|
|
|
Uglycat posted:Trump will not be winning the November election. That’s the spirit!
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 04:50
|
|
|
Chubb is being backed by the conservative businessman exactly like German Big Business backed Hitler, thinking they could control him. Next thing you know you're factory is being supplied by slave labor and there's an enemy army advancing towards the camp. But the profits before then will be immense! And it's not like your company will be wiped out afterwards. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 04:51
|
|
|
Musk says he didn't donate to Trump. That doesn't rule out backing his bond. Is Musk that gullible? Who knows.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 05:28
|
|
|
Comstar posted:Chubb is being backed by the conservative businessman exactly like German Big Business backed Hitler, thinking they could control him. What enemy army do you think could march on American soil? The U.S. has nukes. There will be no one coming to save America from itself. There is no downside for the company, its factories will not be bombed from the air, no soldiers will storm its gates.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 05:52
|
|
|
Arsenic Lupin posted:Musk says he didn't donate to Trump. That doesn't rule out backing his bond. Musk was an idiot before he decided to start his daily vitamin k regimen. So yes, he is certainly gullible enough to give large sums of cash to a fellow traveler. The issue is that both men are notorious liars and thus it's impossible to know if anything is true until an outside source verifies it. Edit:Trump being able to pay for the various Carroll fines wasn't ever really at question. Even with his vastly leveraged holdings, it's all worth at least $100 million. The problem is the other judgement that is approaching half a billion on it's own. Gyges fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Mar 9, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 05:59
|
|
|
Why are people continuously creating new catastrophic fantasies about a loving bond payment. Please don't make things up and post them as some sort of soothsaying exercise, take it to the arts forums. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 05:59
|
|
|
Stabbey_the_Clown posted:What enemy army do you think could march on American soil? The U.S. has nukes. There will be no one coming to save America from itself. There is no downside for the company, its factories will not be bombed from the air, no soldiers will storm its gates. I will refer you to the upcoming documentary Civil War. Also the future history show Fallout.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 08:02
|
|
|
FLIPADELPHIA posted:It just very much seems like this is the can getting kicked down the road yet again in terms of consequences for him. As others have said there is no shortage of people willing to give Trump money. And while he has probably greatly inflated his wealth he probably is still rich enough to pay off all his lawsuites, even if it meant losing everything but Mar a Lago, and still live a life of luxury until he dies. Civil court cases that only result in financial penalties were never going to result in actual justice being done to a rich man short of fines being so high they'd put him in a box on the street. Which was never going to happen anyways. Its criminal court cases that I'm interested in. Those actually have a shot at real consequences for him. Even then he probably won't see the inside of a jail cell but at least his political aspirations for him and his family will be mostly dust.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 08:42
|
|
|
Stabbey_the_Clown posted:What enemy army do you think could march on American soil? The U.S. has nukes. There will be no one coming to save America from itself. There is no downside for the company, its factories will not be bombed from the air, no soldiers will storm its gates. Canada?
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 09:28
|
|
|
mobby_6kl posted:Canada? Nice rebuilt WH you got there, shame if anything happened to it again
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 10:01
|
|
|
UK judge orders Trump to pay $380K to man who penned infamous 'Steele Dossier'quote:Former President Donald Trump's escalating legal penalties are a little larger after a judge in the United Kingdom ordered him to pay more than $380,000 to a firm run by Christopher Steele, the ex-British spy who penned the infamous 2016 dossier accusing Trump of harboring close ties to the Russians.  
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 21:29
|
|
|
Comstar posted:Chubb is being backed by the conservative businessman exactly like German Big Business backed Hitler, thinking they could control him. https://jacobin.com/2022/06/nazi-billionaires-capitalism-hitler-book-review Harald Quandt is a premier example of how it was a very successful bet
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 22:01
|
|
|
DarkHorse posted:https://jacobin.com/2022/06/nazi-billionaires-capitalism-hitler-book-review The Quandts are evil motherfuckers who deserve an eternity of punishment. Any time you want to become extremely angry, watch this documentary. It gets taken down and re-uploaded occasionally, but it's up now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shkgyrual2g Seriously, gently caress those people.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 22:26
|
|
|
So, it looks like Trump controlled himself so as to not defame Carroll again until he had the bond in place and then he wen't right back at it over the weekend. Speculation on r/law is that Carrolls lawyer now has a pretty good chance of success of asking the judge to revoke the bond and pay it out immediately since he has now publicly defamed her again in exactly the same manner as previously. Which would be hilarious. Also, if I were CHUBB's board I would immediately fire the CEO who cost the company 91 million over a weekend, that may take years of legal action to recover, on a dumb bet.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 15:04
|
|
|
Could you provide some source for the new defamation?
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 15:14
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:Could you provide some source for the new defamation? https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/03/09/us/2024-presidential-election/trump-carroll?smid=url-share
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 15:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 10:55 |
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:Could you provide some source for the new defamation? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/found-liable-attack-trump-claims-e-jean-carroll-made-false-accusations-rcna142637 a loving idiot posted:“I just posted a $91 million bond, $91 million on a fake story, totally made-up story,” he said, referencing the bond he posted this week as he appeals a defamation verdict against him. Literally hours after posting the bond. ETA: I'm calling Trump a loving idiot, to be clear.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 15:18
|
|