The US will lose WW3

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > The US will lose WW3

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Tempora Mutantur posted:

what the hell is a gun-howitzer then, something in between a gun and a howitzer?

why can't they just aim the gun upwards more, heh

probably something like a 25 pounder, tasked with direct fire on targets but also be used as artillery. 25 pounder fired a 88mm round but at a relatively slow velocity compared to the more famous german 88mm, i guess the weight of the round was meant to make up for this lack of speed while also allowing it to do both jobs kinda well. I don't think the 25 pounder had much trouble dealing with panzer 4's.

# ? Mar 10, 2024 01:55

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# ? May 25, 2024 13:10

500excf type r: Mar 7, 2013; I'm as annoying as the high-pitched whine of my motorcycle, desperately compensating for the lack of substance in my life.

Grilled Beef posted:

it is not just the use of eminent domain (though I would disagree that neoliberalism has no problem with it; remember the blowback to Kelo vs New London from the capitalist class)

"After the Court's decision, the city allowed a private developer to proceed with its plans; however, the developer was unable to obtain financing and abandoned the project, and the contested land remained an undeveloped empty lot.[3][4]"

Jfc

# ? Mar 10, 2024 02:14

Ansar Santa: Jul 12, 2012

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

it looks to me like the mortar should be able to hit the target

# ? Mar 10, 2024 02:21

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

Tempora Mutantur posted:

why can't they just aim the gun upwards more, heh

That is what a gun-howitzer is, a field gun that can be elevated like a howitzer and modify trajectory by reducing charge.

It�s a materials science thing again. If you look at WW2, the US had a 155mm gun, and a 155mm howitzer, with radically different barrel lengths, chamber pressures, max charges, carriages and weight. They were dramatically different weapons, and used differently.

The idea of a 30 calibre long howitzer was not just not technically feasible before the 1950�s, it was ridiculous. The carriage would either be extremely heavy or would shake itself apart if used like a field gun. The performance would therefore be worse than a gun or a howitzer. Better materials allowed this to be possible.

e: QF 25pdr is a great example! 88mm was just about the edge of what was possible, and even then the carriage took a long time to figure out, and it had a relatively short barrel. It could be used as an AT gun, field gun or howitzer.

Scaling this up, as you know, is an exponential problem because of the physical forces involved, hence the wait until the 50�s for the D-30 155mm and 70�s for long barrel M109s in 155mm.

DJJIB-DJDCT has issued a correction as of 02:26 on Mar 10, 2024

# ? Mar 10, 2024 02:21

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

The Soviets later developed gun-mortars, using their experience with smoothbore tank guns to develop high velocity (and autoloading) mortars that could fire HE and HEAT at flat trajectories as well, first in 82mm then, as materials advanced, and with SP mounts, 120mm.

# ? Mar 10, 2024 02:35

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Grift ideas time. Okay so hear me out - laser artillery. Very space age eh?

Now obviously light doesn't bend so well without a black hole so we'll need to fire the laser up and reflect it back down on target using an airborne mirror dish, carefully angled. Suspended beneath perhaps a drone, maybe even a dedicated satellite. Obviously this will need to be a really good mirror so I envisage it as equivalent to something the hubble telescope might use in terms of both quality and price.

It's going to work great, on a clear day, if the wind is calm, assuming all the calculations are good and you don't shoot down your own mirror. Also you'll need to stick close to anywhere with large transmission lines to power it.

# ? Mar 10, 2024 02:44

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

DancingShade posted:

Grift ideas time. Okay so hear me out - laser artillery. Very space age eh?

Now obviously light doesn't bend so well without a black hole so we'll need to fire the laser up and reflect it back down on target using an airborne mirror dish, carefully angled. Suspended beneath perhaps a drone, maybe even a dedicated satellite. Obviously this will need to be a really good mirror so I envisage it as equivalent to something the hubble telescope might use in terms of both quality and price.

It's going to work great, on a clear day, if the wind is calm, assuming all the calculations are good and you don't shoot down your own mirror. Also you'll need to stick close to anywhere with large transmission lines to power it.

yeah but you lose one power plant and all of a sudden your entire base and its laser sentries go offline until your dozer can build another one

# ? Mar 10, 2024 03:21

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

Raskolnikov38 posted:

yeah but you lose one power plant and all of a sudden your entire base and its laser sentries go offline until your dozer can build another one

since we are on a tangent: westwood sucks at gameplay mechanics in C&C until RA2

# ? Mar 10, 2024 03:26

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

So are these "gangs" in Haiti just anti-government opposition? Because they don't seem to be acting like gangs by demanding the PM resign, liberating the prisons, distributing aid etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH9RDIiNyJo

# ? Mar 10, 2024 03:50

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

# ? Mar 10, 2024 03:56

Megamissen: Jul 19, 2022; any post can be a kannapost
if you want it to be

mlmp08 posted:

Maybe! But so far the several countries that have or had these large guns opted not to for some reason. Probably less about the capability of the barrel itself and more the infeasibility of such a large and cumbersome systems for field artillery in contrast with rocket artillery or smaller rounds.

If we were talking about a static cannon on a test range or something then going huge is easier.

you are too focused on the specific 80km number while missing the general point

# ? Mar 10, 2024 03:56

Megamissen: Jul 19, 2022; any post can be a kannapost
if you want it to be

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

So are these "gangs" in Haiti just anti-government opposition? Because they don't seem to be acting like gangs by demanding the PM resign, liberating the prisons, distributing aid etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH9RDIiNyJo

gangs filling the vaccuum of a failing state and organizing themselves into political entities seems like a thing that could happen

# ? Mar 10, 2024 04:02

Grilled Beef: Oct 27, 2023

DancingShade posted:

Grift ideas time. Okay so hear me out - laser artillery. Very space age eh?

Now obviously light doesn't bend so well without a black hole so we'll need to fire the laser up and reflect it back down on target using an airborne mirror dish, carefully angled. Suspended beneath perhaps a drone, maybe even a dedicated satellite. Obviously this will need to be a really good mirror so I envisage it as equivalent to something the hubble telescope might use in terms of both quality and price.

It's going to work great, on a clear day, if the wind is calm, assuming all the calculations are good and you don't shoot down your own mirror. Also you'll need to stick close to anywhere with large transmission lines to power it.

You are 25 years behind

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_Air_and_Space_Global_Laser_Engagement

Got a lot of money in the Bush years. course every crackpot idea did. But ground based laser, you shoot it at a blimp that is hanging a mirror off it, and the laser reflects off the mirror to the target

popular Science/Mechanics loved printing every ad copy of a new weapon system back there as the next big thing that would kill all the terrorists

# ? Mar 10, 2024 04:20

Mister Bates: Aug 4, 2010

Grilled Beef posted:

You are 25 years behind

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_Air_and_Space_Global_Laser_Engagement

Got a lot of money in the Bush years. course every crackpot idea did. But ground based laser, you shoot it at a blimp that is hanging a mirror off it, and the laser reflects off the mirror to the target

popular Science/Mechanics loved printing every ad copy of a new weapon system back there as the next big thing that would kill all the terrorists

EASGLE

# ? Mar 10, 2024 04:43

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Grilled Beef posted:

You are 25 years behind

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_Air_and_Space_Global_Laser_Engagement

Got a lot of money in the Bush years. course every crackpot idea did. But ground based laser, you shoot it at a blimp that is hanging a mirror off it, and the laser reflects off the mirror to the target

popular Science/Mechanics loved printing every ad copy of a new weapon system back there as the next big thing that would kill all the terrorists

Nuts. Well okay. It's fine, it's fine. We'll add on bluetooth and let people control it via a subscription service smartphone app. Now its new again.

# ? Mar 10, 2024 05:41

GoLambo: Apr 11, 2006

mlmp08 posted:

I don�t know where you came to that conclusion. Divarty came back years ago and is in use now. HIMARS battalions have already been expanding and growing years ago. Precision strike missile began development a few years ago as a concept and is now fielded in limited early operational capability capacity. GMLRS production is up to about 166% of what it was a few years ago and on plan to be about 233% of what it was in 2022 by 2025. GMLRS-ER (150km range GMLRS) is not yet fielded but is doing well in test and evaluation. JAGM is fielded now, today, thousands have been built. For years now the training center has been forcing units to behave as if they have less air power and more exposure to enemy air and missile threats and upping the opfor capability in that realm.

The two areas where I�d say the army has been slowest:

1. their inability to decide where they want to go with tube artillery (seems to be a lot of debate about new rounds vs platform still, so it�s still in development and test cycle while they try to figure which way to go)

2. They know where they want to go with new advanced air defenses and some of the sub components have worked great, but as a collective system, the new ground based air defense systems as a whole had been delayed a few times during test and evaluation. The outlier is that the army did field several new short-range tactical air defense formations, which continue to be fielded and stand up both in Europe and conus.

Everyone wants to go fast, but it would be even more unbelievable if the army just announced a new concept and said �ok all done, we�re all ready and modernized� in just a few years. There�s a balance between plodding and slow and hubristic overselling of readiness for a new fighting concept and doctrine.

E: the army's big debate about artillery is more about new guns and round types. What is already decided and worked via contracts was a decision to increase basic 155mm HE shell production by about 700%+. That increase in production is over 250% now, might hit 400-500% by fall of 2024, and 700%+ by 2025. Which should probably be faster, but considering the effort began in late 2022, they're reacting to their own poor estimates of shell requirements. Europe is a bit more interesting because there's a lot of pledging but if you don't actually pay for a factory to make things, the factory doesn't make the things.

You know where I got that conclusion, you're just being pedantic again and have a different opinion about what that information means. Just because you have a much better and greater number of modernized long range rockets and multi-platform missiles, which is great (for the US military anyway) and I'm acknowledging that, does not mean that it necessarily constitutes enough of anything, especially considering that they're barely able to increase shell production on top of already having too small of a gun force, much less reserves. We're seeing what Ukraine means for modern war, they are too, and its barely lit a fire under their asses to do much about it. They need a 3000% increase in shell production because 700% of a trickle is just barely starting to reverse that, they need to build real actual reserve stockpiles if they want to be prepared for a real actual face to face conflict. Yeah, they're "on track" but there isn't any proof they'll break the consistent cycle of being 15 years late in a quarter of the numbers projected, and they are still entirely too focused on the high performance high cost solutions while lacking momentum in solving the basics. That, to me, seems like a big problem for their actual capability to sustain operations outside of lobbing rockets at countries without air forces.

# ? Mar 10, 2024 07:58

Lin-Manuel Turtle: Jul 12, 2023

Cerebral Bore posted:

also if the us wanted to move an artillery shell 70 km they'd just send in mlp and tell him that it's actually a set of goalposts

# ? Mar 10, 2024 08:15

Lin-Manuel Turtle: Jul 12, 2023

HouseofSuren posted:

Half of America will attack the other half who support Israel, Zionism, and Ukraine.

HouseofSuren posted:

Not having Jewish friends so you don't have to hear "Why is this happening to us" in imminent future.

You are insane, go salivate over your Turner Diaries fanfiction somewhere else

# ? Mar 10, 2024 08:30

mila kunis: Jun 10, 2011

Megamissen posted:

you are too focused on the specific 80km number while missing the general point

just chainprobe that rear end in a top hat he makes every thread he posts in worse

# ? Mar 10, 2024 10:08

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

DancingShade posted:

Grift ideas time. Okay so hear me out - laser artillery. Very space age eh?

Now obviously light doesn't bend so well without a black hole so we'll need to fire the laser up and reflect it back down on target using an airborne mirror dish, carefully angled. Suspended beneath perhaps a drone, maybe even a dedicated satellite. Obviously this will need to be a really good mirror so I envisage it as equivalent to something the hubble telescope might use in terms of both quality and price.

It's going to work great, on a clear day, if the wind is calm, assuming all the calculations are good and you don't shoot down your own mirror. Also you'll need to stick close to anywhere with large transmission lines to power it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAZvweLMkJE

# ? Mar 10, 2024 10:23

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Anyway, the Russians keep their 203mm around because they are clearly still useful for counter-battery fire since honestly there are only a few guns that can out range them and there are plenty of other alternatives for ranges beyond 55km. Also, if you want to hit fortifications, sometimes a lot of boom helps.

As for why there aren�t larger more modern caliber guns, perhaps the older Cold War guns were and still out-ranging almost all the 155/152mm guns out there and if it actually became an issue there may be a return to higher caliber guns.

It isn�t that hard.

# ? Mar 10, 2024 11:13

Zeppelin Insanity: Oct 28, 2009; Wahnsinn
Einfach
Wahnsinn

I think part of the reason the West does not do large calibres, along with the aspects mentioned, is that the US is obsessed with air transportability. Almost everything that is announced is touted as being light for air transportability, even if the project ends up very overweight for what it is.

That, and, well, the US really got used to the idea that an artillery target is one guy in a building. Not an army. That is why all the MIC powerpoints about needing fewer shells make sense to people. Shooting 30 shells at a single guy does seem much more wasteful than shooting 3 shells (if you don't count price per shell of course). Conceiving of there being an actual large formation to fight is maybe in the back of people's minds as a vague concept (hence liking cluster munitions) but I don't think it's something they continuously understand.

# ? Mar 10, 2024 11:47

Votskomit: Jun 26, 2013

This thread makes me feel dumb and I had to skip past some bits, but I feel reassured knowing that Americans are using the wrong millimeter which is why they'll lose ww3?

# ? Mar 10, 2024 12:22

HouseofSuren: Feb 5, 2024; by Pragmatica

Punished Turtle posted:

You are insane, go salivate over your Turner Diaries fanfiction somewhere else

Not right wing in any capacity, I'm hardcore anti centrist

you're legitimately the problem if you're a moderate or centrist, get over it

turner diaries is more about sad white people, i'm more about the eurasian coming to eat your face soon and force you to change the shape of your head, the meat of history, and what europeans have long forgotten

in the 1400's the ottomans decide to take land from Iran during the time of its official title iran u turan, which the europeans call the timurid empire, timur sends a letter to the ottoman sultan stating the following.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayezid_I

This is the excerpt from one of Timur's letters addressed to Ottoman sultan:

Believe me, you are but pismire ant: don't seek to fight the elephants for they'll crush you under their feet. Shall a petty prince such as you are contend with us? But your rodomontades [braggadocio] are not extraordinary; for a Turcoman never spoke with judgement. If you don't follow our counsels you will regret it.[14][15]

In the fateful Battle of Ankara, on 20 July 1402, the Ottoman army was defeated. Bayazid tried to escape, but was captured and taken to Timur.[16] Historians describe their first meeting as follows:

When Timur saw Bayezid, he laughed. Bayezid, offended by this laugh, told Timur that it was indecent to laugh at misfortune; to which Timur replied: "It is clear then that fate does not value power and possession of vast lands if it distributes them to cripples: to you, the crooked, and to me, the lame."[17]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ankara

HouseofSuren has issued a correction as of 13:36 on Mar 10, 2024

# ? Mar 10, 2024 13:15

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Votskomit posted:

This thread makes me feel dumb and I had to skip past some bits, but I feel reassured knowing that Americans are using the wrong millimeter which is why they'll lose ww3?

The Americans will lose WW3 because they want to win everywhere all the time all at once forever but not really commit to it (or to enduring partnerships).

As for long range artillery: everyone major (US, China, Russia) mostly moved on to rocket artillery for divisional fires out to between 70-hundreds of kilometers.

# ? Mar 10, 2024 13:35

Dixon Chisholm: Jan 2, 2020

mila kunis posted:

just chainprobe that rear end in a top hat he makes every thread he posts in worse

counterpoint: he did give the puckins guy good advice on arms selection

# ? Mar 10, 2024 13:49

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

America will lose because they have poor moral fiber and are an affront to god

# ? Mar 10, 2024 14:04

Rodney The Yam II: Mar 3, 2007

I never before appreciated the fine details of artillery physics and doctrine, nor the design history and material development of guns. Unironic thanks to all the posting gladiators itt

# ? Mar 10, 2024 14:48

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

China focus her weapon development in the Taiwan strait, SCS theaters; Russia focus on the Northern European plain terrain; the US focus on...weapons that look cool as gently caress?

# ? Mar 10, 2024 14:48