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Discendo Vox posted:Could you provide some source for the new defamation? https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/10/trump-denies-carrolls-claims-after-posting-91point6-million-bond-.html quote:“I just posted a $91 million bond, $91 million on a fake story, totally made-up story,” Trump said, adding that the judgment was, “based on false accusations made about me by a woman that I knew nothing about, didn’t know, never heard of, I know nothing about her.” Edit: Also from that article, this statement by Trump is nearly exactly the same as the statement that he made that led to the $91 million judgement https://twitter.com/lawofruby/status/1766675160197652894
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Mar 11, 2024 15:19
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Haha, thanks y’all I was phoneposting, shoulda done a better job of googling.
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Mar 11, 2024 15:21
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So when a punitive fine isn’t enough to stop someone, you just have to keep ratcheting up the number till it works, right? Maybe a cool billion?
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Mar 11, 2024 15:50
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Honestly, successfully delaying all the criminal stuff but destroying himself with civil penalties would be the most Trump thing he could do.
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Mar 11, 2024 15:55
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https://twitter.com/alanfeuer/status/1767201224074432983
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Mar 11, 2024 16:04
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Given that he has won the Repulican nomination, he's going to do more campaigning. Which just provides more opportunities for him to defame Jean Carroll and expose himself to another civil suit.
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Mar 11, 2024 16:05
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I hope that anyone considering putting up a $500 million bond for him is paying attention
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Mar 11, 2024 16:11
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SixFigureSandwich posted:I hope that anyone considering putting up a $500 million bond for him is paying attention As far as I can tell, the more money you have the less you know about anything going on, so this seems unlikely.
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Mar 11, 2024 16:14
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If any philosophers out there were wondering whether pride or greed is more of an all-consuming desire, welp
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Mar 11, 2024 16:15
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For the millionth time, is this not the point where Jack Smith files for her to be removed on incompetence grounds? I know she's doing this on purpose but if the outcome is functionally the same as putting a loving parrot in the chair I don't care.
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Mar 11, 2024 16:40
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SixFigureSandwich posted:I hope that anyone considering putting up a $500 million bond for him is paying attention I find posts like this baffling and inexplicable. Of course there are idiots with money who will bail Trump out because they are all in on fascism. Like if you are a multi-billionaire, pissing 500m down the drain to bring in the fash that you crave is good enough regardless of it netting you money in the long run or not. 500m is literally nothing to Elon Musk for example. He doesn't need some sort of return on investment to justify the 500m. His idiot brain just needs to go, "my follower count on twitter will go up if I do it." and that's enough. Now this isn't me saying that someone will absolutely come to bat to Trump, just that we have enough absolute demons with fuckloads of money who can throw away 500m with a casual lack of care the same way one of us might do so when we really want a pizza. So it's weird to me how the talk around this has mostly been people going, "this is obviously a bad investment, nobody will bite." Failboattootoot fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Mar 11, 2024 |
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Mar 11, 2024 17:54
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Maybe they made more than 90m dollars somehow by having access through Trump? In the case of 500m thats a harder sell.
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Mar 11, 2024 18:02
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Murgos posted:Also, if I were CHUBB's board I would immediately fire the CEO who cost the company 91 million over a weekend, that may take years of legal action to recover, on a dumb bet. A hilarious option is that Trump is so sure that he'll win on appeal that he offered excellent terms to Chubb
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Mar 11, 2024 18:03
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Tesseraction posted:For the millionth time, is this not the point where Jack Smith files for her to be removed on incompetence grounds? I know she's doing this on purpose but if the outcome is functionally the same as putting a loving parrot in the chair I don't care. That's a nuclear option and Smith will wait until Cannon makes a decision that warrants such extraordinary action. She's inching up to that line IMO but judges have very wide discretion for a reason and that has to be respected.
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Mar 11, 2024 18:04
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Tesseraction posted:For the millionth time, is this not the point where Jack Smith files for her to be removed on incompetence grounds? I know she's doing this on purpose but if the outcome is functionally the same as putting a loving parrot in the chair I don't care. She has the discretion to do this. This is the consequence of electing Trump to appoint judges.
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Mar 11, 2024 18:33
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Shammypants posted:Maybe they made more than 90m dollars somehow by having access through Trump? The only way Chubb loses money on the loan is if the collateral price estimate is very wrong, or crashes faster than they can seize and auction it. Trump losing his appeal immediately doesn't matter to them.
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Mar 11, 2024 18:41
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Foxfire_ posted:The likely form of the bond deal is something like "We loan you $91m and are charging 7% interest. The loan is secured by some specific property we think is worth at least $150m. When the loan and accumulated interest reaches $120m (or the property value goes down), Trump either pledges more collateral, or we immediately seize the property, sell it at auction, repay the loan from the proceeds, and give Trump anything left over" with the numbers changed. I mean when Trump gave Chubb affiliated personnel access to positions in government from 2016-2020.
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Mar 11, 2024 18:42
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Foxfire_ posted:The likely form of the bond deal is something like "We loan you $91m and are charging 7% interest. The loan is secured by some specific property we think is worth at least $150m. When the loan and accumulated interest reaches $120m (or the property value goes down), Trump either pledges more collateral, or we immediately seize the property, sell it at auction, repay the loan from the proceeds, and give Trump anything left over" with the numbers changed. What if the government seizes and sells the same property first for a different judgement?
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Mar 11, 2024 18:49
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:What if the government seizes and sells the same property first for a different judgement? Presumably the lender’s claim on the property gets first dibs, so maybe the same process except the government keeps the cash left over.
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Mar 11, 2024 18:51
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:What if the government seizes and sells the same property first for a different judgement? I imagine then CHUBB or whoever files a civil suit or puts a lien and then they negotiate who gets what
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Mar 11, 2024 18:51
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withak posted:Presumably the lender’s claim on the property gets first dibs, so maybe the same process except the government keeps the cash left over. See I would expect the government to get first dibs, they're the government. But the gubbmint can attach any property, whereas the private lender doesn't have a general writ just a single lien on individual property (presumably). I hated secured transactions class
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Mar 11, 2024 18:54
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trump 100% thinks he'll get over on all of these lenders. all of them.
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Mar 11, 2024 18:59
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:See I would expect the government to get first dibs, they're the government. But the gubbmint can attach any property, whereas the private lender doesn't have a general writ just a single lien on individual property (presumably). IDK, I'm just guessing. Seems like the government's overall goal is to get what money they can from the defendant, not from some rando foolish enough to lend him money.
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Mar 11, 2024 19:27
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withak posted:IDK, I'm just guessing. Seems like the government's overall goal is to get what money they can from the defendant, not from some rando foolish enough to lend him money. Right but the other side of that is I'm not sure why the government should care about the potential liabilities of third parties dumb enough to loan Trump money. Like, your dumb rear end took out a lien on Trump Tower when you knew the government was probably weeks away from foreclosing on it. Whose fault is that? Why should your poor business decisions mean the government can't get their money?
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Mar 11, 2024 19:38
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Is this like the thing where there's a new trial on the new defamatory statement?
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Mar 11, 2024 19:41
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Morrow posted:Is this like the thing where there's a new trial on the new defamatory statement? One can only assume Roberta Kaplan sighed on Saturday evening and opened "Carroll v. Trump III (prelim).docx"
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Mar 11, 2024 19:45
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Fork of Unknown Origins posted:So when a punitive fine isn’t enough to stop someone, you just have to keep ratcheting up the number till it works, right? Maybe a cool billion? See my earlier post about Trump defaming Carrol from inside a cardboard box.
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Mar 11, 2024 19:55
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:What if the government seizes and sells the same property first for a different judgement? If the property is being sold, back taxes get paid first, then unpaid contractors who did work there, then everyone else starting with the earliest. If there's leftover civil judgment damages, they'd move on to another property until there's nothing left,.
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Mar 11, 2024 20:06
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Shammypants posted:I mean when Trump gave Chubb affiliated personnel access to positions in government from 2016-2020. Again, this is not free money to Trump. This is almost certainly a secured loan backed up by valuable property, which Chubb will be able to seize and sell to pay off what he owes them (plus interest) if he is unable to come up with the cash. If you're referring to the president of Chubb being appointed to the Advisory Committee for Trade Policy and Negotiations under Trump, that's not unusual at all and it's unlikely to be tied to any sort of quid pro quo. The executive branch has a fuckton of business advisory committees like this, and they generally have quite a few members, and there's usually plenty of random big business executives on them. It's hardly something an executive would owe a president $100 million for. We certainly don't see the 14 current members of the ACTPN lining up to shower hundreds of millions of dollars in personal favors on Biden. Same goes for the 18 members of the Trade Advisory Committee on Africa, the 15 members of the Intergovernmental Policy Advisory Committee, the 34 members of the Agricultural Policy Advisory Committee, the several dozen members of the six Agricultural Technical Advisory Committees for Trade, the 25 members of the President's National Infrastructure Advisory Council, or many many more.
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Mar 11, 2024 20:27
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Foxfire_ posted:Judgement liens don't usually get special treatment like tax liens or contractor's liens do. Everything else gets paid in the order it was attached to the property. Thanks, that answers my question. I remembered enough to know special treatment for government liens was possible but didnt known or had forgotten that was just for tax liens.
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Mar 11, 2024 20:36
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mdemone posted:That's a nuclear option and Smith will wait until Cannon makes a decision that warrants such extraordinary action. She's inching up to that line IMO but judges have very wide discretion for a reason and that has to be respected. It’s not a nuclear option, it’s an option that simply doesn’t exist. There’s no such thing as a motion to make the judge move faster, and any appellate court would laugh either a mandamus or a motion to reassign out of court, because they, too, are judges, and as judges don’t want piddly little people like litigants getting to control their schedule.
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Mar 11, 2024 21:52
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Main Paineframe posted:Again, this is not free money to Trump. This is almost certainly a secured loan backed up by valuable property, which Chubb will be able to seize and sell to pay off what he owes them (plus interest) if he is unable to come up with the cash. Ok but what if CHUBB just doesn't collect? Like if the owner/ceo/shareholders are MAGA dipshits, what stops them from forgiving the loan if they are so inclined and can afford to lose 90m? Looking up the CEO, this probably isn't the case, probably. Which is good.
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Mar 11, 2024 22:27
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Failboattootoot posted:Ok but what if CHUBB just doesn't collect? Like if the owner/ceo/shareholders are MAGA dipshits, what stops them from forgiving the loan if they are so inclined and can afford to lose 90m? Looking up the CEO, this probably isn't the case, probably. Which is good. Everything is securities fraud, so it would take 1 shareholder to sue and it would be a pretty easy case showing the board wasn't looking after shareholders.
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Mar 11, 2024 22:30
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Oil! posted:Everything is securities fraud, so it would take 1 shareholder to sue and it would be a pretty easy case showing the board wasn't looking after shareholders. One of the very few times that shareholder protection laws works out in our favor?
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Mar 11, 2024 22:32
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Oil! posted:Everything is securities fraud, so it would take 1 shareholder to sue and it would be a pretty easy case showing the board wasn't looking after shareholders. Neat. Thanks for the info!
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Mar 11, 2024 22:35
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That's why I tend to think someone else secured the bond. It doesn't scream due diligence to accept a lien against property from an entity that was found guilty of fraud for overvaluing property. And in the course of the trial that entity was credibly accused of making up a fake, 50m loan. The CFO is headed back to jail for perjury. This is well below low-tier junk bond.
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Mar 11, 2024 22:48
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Randalor posted:One of the very few times that shareholder protection laws works out in our favor? Something that I hope becomes a theme in this thread: this is exactly what cost Elon Musk $55bn a few weeks ago after 1 (one) shareholder sued him for similar poo poo.
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Mar 11, 2024 22:55
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elhondo posted:That's why I tend to think someone else secured the bond. It doesn't scream due diligence to accept a lien against property from an entity that was found guilty of fraud for overvaluing property. And in the course of the trial that entity was credibly accused of making up a fake, 50m loan. The CFO is headed back to jail for perjury. I think if you look at everything Trump owns globally, you can probably get to the amount Chubb paid for the bond, but I'd be surprised if he has anywhere near enough assets to cover the $450 million needed for the NY fraud bond.
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Mar 11, 2024 23:00
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azflyboy posted:I think if you look at everything Trump owns globally, you can probably get to the amount Chubb paid for the bond, but I'd be surprised if he has anywhere near enough assets to cover the $450 million needed for the NY fraud bond. I think it's important to note that he didn't get a bond for the fraud trial. If he could have gotten both of them, he would have.
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Mar 11, 2024 23:09
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Jean-Paul Shartre posted:It’s not a nuclear option, it’s an option that simply doesn’t exist. There’s no such thing as a motion to make the judge move faster, and any appellate court would laugh either a mandamus or a motion to reassign out of court, because they, too, are judges, and as judges don’t want piddly little people like litigants getting to control their schedule. Under the Classified Information Protection Act, the DOJ can appeal immediately to the controlling circuit based on interests that are vital to the protection of that information. Do they want to resort to that? No. Because it's a very high bar.
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Mar 11, 2024 23:12
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