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soviet elsa posted:Lol that dragon ogre shaggoth has been in the game since at least I was in elementary school reading my dad’s White Dwarfs That's the weightlifter pose complaint jpg. Because 9 out of 3,000 figures have similar poses.
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Mar 12, 2024 15:09
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Cease to Hope posted:The third edition multipart plastic marines, the ones in the starter box, were hand-sculpted, as were all of the tanks back in those days. GW's plastics were sculpted at three-times size, then scaled down with a pantograph. Originally a mechanical router jig, and later 3D scanners. I don't know what year they made the switch to scanners, but the example in that document is from 2003. Years ago, somewhere (WD maybe) i saw an article about this and they had a photo of a GIANT (like 8 inch tall) starter set Fantasy Dwarf, but despite my best attempts to google I couldn't' find any more information and was starting to think I imagined the whole thing.
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Mar 12, 2024 15:11
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Back when they unveiled the current Land Raider they had an article about the whole design and production process of it. Going by Index Astartes Apocrypha it was WD 245 from 2000. Who knew the Land Raider was old enough to drink now.
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Mar 12, 2024 16:14
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These.... aren't even the same pose? The legs on the models are in slightly different positions. Yeah they're similar because that's what legs look like when you're sprinting 
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Mar 12, 2024 16:17
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I will hear no naysaying against the dragon ogre shaggoth. I've lowkey wanted that model since it came out in 6th edition WHFB, but now I have a chaos army for Old World and finally have an excuse. I just need to decide if I want to pay ebay prices for a metal version or wait for them to get to beastmen and rerelease it in FW resin. I know there's a chance they'll resculpt it way down the line to match the design and scale of the total war unit. I'm all for that. This is just one of those chaos models that I saw over and over again in rulebooks and white dwarfs and I think it's held up very well over the years.
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Mar 12, 2024 16:18
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arguing with the invisible grognard
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Mar 12, 2024 16:31
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it's very easy to not read the opinions of dipshits. not having a twitter is free
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Mar 12, 2024 16:38
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Cease to Hope posted:arguing with the invisible grognard is the grognard in the room with us right now?
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Mar 12, 2024 16:39
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Let ye who does not collect napoleonics cast the first stone.
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Mar 12, 2024 16:40
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Cooked Auto posted:Back when they unveiled the current Land Raider they had an article about the whole design and production process of it. Going by Index Astartes Apocrypha it was WD 245 from 2000. Anyone who waited like five years for it to finally be released or anyone that has built one in the last few years.
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Mar 12, 2024 16:59
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raverrn posted:Oh man, I am spicy-pissed about these Tau battlesuit changes. Will you burn them on youtube?!
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Mar 12, 2024 17:00
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xtothez posted:Will you burn them on youtube?! Worse, I'm gonna boycott GW by not building the Tau models I've been sitting on for a year!
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Mar 12, 2024 17:30
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ro5s posted:it's very easy to not read the opinions of dipshits. not having a twitter is free I mean I literally did say I spend less time in those discords because of those people. But you can't just avoid everything because then you're stuck with a shrinking pool of people to talk about 'hams with.
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Mar 12, 2024 17:33
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raverrn posted:Worse, I'm gonna boycott GW by not building the Tau models I've been sitting on for a year! It could have been worse, they could have given them the twin-linked and combi weapon treatment.
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Mar 12, 2024 17:46
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Twin-Linked is good though!!
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Mar 12, 2024 18:01
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So are army codex still a thing? Thinking about picking up an Astra Militarum Combat Patrol box but I see there is no 10th edition army codex out for them yet. Would I need to buy an older version or are the free army card PDFs and the core rules enough to start playing?
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Mar 12, 2024 18:56
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Yeah that's enough to start. Codices are still a thing but guard don't have one, they have a barebones set of rules called an Index. All armies that don't have a 10th edition codex use their relevant index. Edit: Personally I find it easier to look up this stuff on wahapedia or builder apps like newrecruit. Because the stuff in the index PDFs is also outdated thanks to constant rule updates and revisions.
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Mar 12, 2024 18:58
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I don't understand what the point of the indices are if you still have to look up dataslate changes etc. separately.
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Mar 12, 2024 19:03
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The Indexes still have like The Rules for the faction and the dataslates have only the newest updates so I don't think it's all that bad? I guess it depends on the faction. Blood Angels have their Detachment ability buffed but it's not updated in the Index for example. There were various typos in the original indices that are updated though, like the missing Firing Decks across random Rhinos and certain Predator Destructors not having Rapid Fire 2 on their Autocannons.
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Mar 12, 2024 19:05
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GW still regularly mention sculptors and designers but they usually only mention them by their first names. Like they regularly talk about the lead designer being Darren Latham but he's strictly only ever "Darren". Also I'm pretty sure guys like "Tom" who they mention sometimes in WD and WarCom is Tom Hugues who designed that Primaris Jump Captain (and who also created and painted that Tau bust that won Golden Demon a little while ago)
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Mar 12, 2024 19:30
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Eej posted:Twin-Linked is good though!! Twin linked is the one thing I hate in 10th. Maybe... Just let two guns fire two shots??
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Mar 12, 2024 19:34
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A Stormraven in Ironstorm already shits out a ton of damage I don't think removing Twinlinked and just doubling its shots is a good idea. The whole concept behind the keyword is to increase consistency without raising the spike potential.
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Mar 12, 2024 19:46
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New twin linked is better than old twin linked at least. Still have the mental image of the old TL where you're shooting and you miss because you aimed 6 inches too far to the left but with twin linked that's there the second barrel is so you hit after all.
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Mar 12, 2024 20:01
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Popete posted:So are army codex still a thing? Thinking about picking up an Astra Militarum Combat Patrol box but I see there is no 10th edition army codex out for them yet. Would I need to buy an older version or are the free army card PDFs and the core rules enough to start playing? I play guard and just have the corebook and use new recruit. Be warned, guard players are all a bit touchy about the codex issue, but don't let that discourage you. The index is fine, it isn't great, but it is perfectly playable. If you do get the combat patrol, I don't recommend building the combat patrol loadouts unless you really really want to play a lot of combat patrol. The way it is built really doesn't work well for 40k. The artillery and sentinel loadouts do not work well in 40k. Learn from my mistakes. xtothez posted:"Monopose" I also get that people don't care for repeated poses, but also I just think that is a reality of minis. A lot of the newer plastic kits are better conceived of as modern plastic versions of old pewter ranges. I collect vostroyans, I have a limited number of metal sculpts to choose from, I do a ton of converting to get new sculpts to break up the repeats. IMO the new plastic kits give that same experience, but are far easier to convert. I personally prefer monopose, but that is because I think of them as little sculptures, an artist designed it to look good in that one pose. Multi-pose was great as a kid wanting to make things my own, but they don't look as nice. I do think there are some excesses that CAD enables, but overall I agree that the complaints you detail are pretty silly. Repeated poses were always a thing, three quarters of my vostroyan officers share the same base torso, and the Vostroyans are usually held up as one of the highpoints of GW handsculpting. I do find some modern GW sculpting a bit too busy for my taste, the eyes wants somewhere to rest, you need some open areas, but I can find handsculpts with the same issues. The art historian in me wants to really dig into all this. I'd wager that if you investigate this it has almost nothing to do with how models were sculpted, but instead has way more to do with the workplace environment that existed when they were sculpted. Personally, I think the best stuff GW has produced came from the late 90s and early 2000s, as well as the last 5 years. Adeptus Titanicus stuff got me back into GW, specifically the Reaver Titan. I don't understand how anyone could look at that kit and say CAD is bad. Conversely, the worst stuff I'd ever seen GW produce all seems to have come from the time period between those two eras. Those time periods also match really well with when the company had great staff and leadership, or when it was being mismanaged and talent was driven out. The one constant you can count on in any artistic endeavor is artistic talent, so generally if you see a drop in quality it actually says more about the conditions artists find themselves working in, or if those conditions are intolerable enough, it is a sign that the talent has gone elsewhere. I hope that makes sense. Basically, I'd bet this has more to do with how the artists in each era were being directed and managed, not what tools they had. It is kind of like how modern artists are exactly as talented as the great Renaissance masters, but none of us can spend 5000 hours on a single massive photo-realistic painting because the aristocratic patronage system no longer exists. We need to make paintings in hours, days at most, so abstraction is a necessity, as it saves time. That is capitalism, but people don't understand that market pressures are what drive modern artistic styles, and just decide it must be that modern artists lack ability, or have bad tools (despite our tools in fact being much better!). Sorry for another novel 
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Mar 12, 2024 20:23
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Geisladisk posted:Twin linked is the one thing I hate in 10th. Maybe... Just let two guns fire two shots?? thank you....
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Mar 12, 2024 20:47
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Twin-linked helping wound instead of hit doesn't even make any sense.
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Mar 12, 2024 21:30
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It's kind of weird to me that there's no generic rule for re-rolling hits. They could have left Twin-Linked in that role and used the old Shred rule for re-rolling wounds. That way they'd at least have the option for both.
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Mar 12, 2024 21:41
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Gotta admit the monopose thing mostly bugs me if the pose is dynamic and distinctive. I think having five different torso+legs poses that are all sort of basic standing straight with weight distributed evenly on both feet and the torso twisted a bit one way or the other is a good substitute for the old "ten different identical torsos and ten slightly different pairs of legs, and you can make different poses by attaching the torsos to different legs at different angles" thing, especially if you can then freely attach different arms and the heads are on ball and socket joints. But if you've got five body poses and two of them are really distinct leaping motions designed for use with one or two specific pairs of arms each, because the artist wants to flex or the directive from management is "make something that looks impressive on the box art" then, like, gently caress off. Seeing those same two leaps repeated four times each is annoying in a way that seeing a bunch of basically static poses isn't.
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Mar 12, 2024 23:47
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If they really had to put twin linked back in the only thing that makes sense is to have them cause each hit to double. If I duct tape two Glocks together and pull the triggers I put two side by side holes into whatever I point at.
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Mar 12, 2024 23:49
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Stephenls posted:Gotta admit the monopose thing mostly bugs me if the pose is dynamic and distinctive. I think having five different torso+legs poses that are all sort of basic standing straight with weight distributed evenly on both feet and the torso twisted a bit one way or the other is a good substitute for the old "ten different identical torsos and ten slightly different pairs of legs, and you can make different poses by attaching the torsos to different legs at different angles" thing, especially if you can then freely attach different arms and the heads are on ball and socket joints. But if you've got five body poses and two of them are really distinct leaping motions designed for use with one or two specific pairs of arms each, because the artist wants to flex or the directive from management is "make something that looks impressive on the box art" then, like, gently caress off. Seeing those same two leaps repeated four times each is annoying in a way that seeing a bunch of basically static poses isn't. I had a blast putting my Firewarriors together. They only have a few leg poses, but the different arm options makes each look different. 
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Mar 12, 2024 23:56
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Virtual Russian posted:Repeated poses were always a thing, three quarters of my vostroyan officers share the same base torso, and the Vostroyans are usually held up as one of the highpoints of GW handsculpting. Plus the weightlifter pose is bad rear end and should be used more, if anything.
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Mar 12, 2024 23:56
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Stephenls posted:But if you've got five body poses and two of them are really distinct leaping motions designed for use with one or two specific pairs of arms each, because the artist wants to flex or the directive from management is "make something that looks impressive on the box art" then, like, gently caress off. Seeing those same two leaps repeated four times each is annoying in a way that seeing a bunch of basically static poses isn't. Exactly, way more important in how they look ranked up together in a single unit on a table than an individual model imo.
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Mar 13, 2024 00:00
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Der Waffle Mous posted:New twin linked is better than old twin linked at least. Is "old twin linked" from 2nd ed? I believe that was roll one BS check and hit twice? Might have missed something as it worked with the Razorback's original weapon of twin linked plasma guns (not cannons) and one lascannon. It worked as it does now in 3rd-5th I believe?
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Mar 13, 2024 01:42
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Professor Shark posted:I had a blast putting my Firewarriors together. They only have a few leg poses, but the different arm options makes each look different. I no poo poo got into warhammer because I thought that Fire Warriors looked cool. It's a great kit. Someone pointed me at the 7th edition kill team box that was just a supplement for 7th edition 40k proper plus ten tactical marines and ten fire warriors. "You should start practicing painting on these, because if nothing else it's a complete game."
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Mar 13, 2024 02:37
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The changed meaning of the term twin-linked confused me a couple of times, but then again so did the introduction of things like "heavy stubber arrays" on the Archaeopters. But in general I think it's good that GW is willing to adjust how guns are grouped to balance a unit. Especially since they don't want to use variable points. I hope Leman Russes with and without sponsons are grouped under different datasheets in the IG codex. Twenty or so different LR datasheets should be fine, right?
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Mar 13, 2024 07:23
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Sherbert Hoover posted:I don't understand what the point of the indices are if you still have to look up dataslate changes etc. separately. At least some of the indexes were amended with dataslate changes, both in the app and on the PDF. As far as I know it's mostly the main rulebook affected by having a separate document to check. With the 60-page core rules being a free download I'm hoping that at some point GW will get around to a revised version, adding in some of the balance dataslate and rules commentary bits permanently. I'm also expecting a new mission deck to replace Leviathan this summer, so after the first full year of the edition seems like a good opportunity for all that.
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Mar 13, 2024 11:10
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when i first started playing twin linked was reroll misses which i thought made sense, because more bullets means more shots. of course we had that one spiffy rear end landspeeder with twinlinked assault cannons and rerolling hits and rending was a bit OP
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Mar 13, 2024 12:06
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TehRedWheelbarrow posted:when i first started playing twin linked was reroll misses which i thought made sense, because more bullets means more shots. of course we had that one spiffy rear end landspeeder with twinlinked assault cannons and rerolling hits and rending was a bit OP I think the initial inspiration for the original twin linked reroll misses rule was stuff like real life anti-aircraft cannons, which are often two or more guns strapped side by side to double the volume of fire to increase the likelyhood of a hit. However, crucially, that's a weapon that just needs one good hit to do the damage it needs to do and hitting the target is extremely hard. Something like this thing  It doesn't translate over to guns like Lascannons, where, crucially, you would very much like to get the effect of both barrels hitting in the game. It also doesn't help that it's somewhat arbitrarily enforced. Land Raiders have two twin linked lascannons, but whoops, we want Land Raiders to be good, so they get to be special and have their two guns actually fire two shots. It's a dumb rule that makes no sense and it's made worse by the inconsistent application. If I fire two guns at a target I get twice the effect, but if these guns happen to be too close together only a maximum of one barrel ever gets to do damage. still mad about twin linked guns
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Mar 13, 2024 13:15
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Twin linked makes the gun better, never worse. How doesn't that make sense?
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Mar 13, 2024 13:28
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Geisladisk posted:It's a dumb rule that makes no sense and it's made worse by the inconsistent application. If I fire two guns at a target I get twice the effect, but if these guns happen to be too close together only a maximum of one barrel ever gets to do damage. There are good cases for why specific units have this applied differently. For example, Dreadnoughts or Chaos Helbrute can pick between a bunch of classic weapon options that all used to have quite different point values*. If the twin lascannon still had two shots then most of the time it would just be straight up better pick than the weaker two-shot multi-melta profile. So instead it's a single shot that rerolls wounds. Some units also have different access to other abilities that skew things; getting more base shots alongside easy access to lethal/sustained hits results in a much stronger weapon, as does twin-linked in conjunction with dev wounds. While it's not perfect, it's clear they have put a bit of thought into some of these choices. *yes they should just bring these back for some wargear options
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Mar 13, 2024 13:37
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