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yeah i don't really see what's wrong with modernizing a bunch of old tanks and winning a war with them. just slap on some extra armor, new engines, and electronics packages, and put them in defensive roles or mix them in with modern tanks. it's not like they're there in lieu of extra t-90s
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Mar 13, 2024 15:33
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Goons will cry and moan about Trotskyites all day but can't even notice the trots in their midst.drilldo squirt posted:I dislike them, when they are used to stop democratic reforms in Soviet colonies.
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Mar 13, 2024 15:43
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Hatebag posted:yeah i don't really see what's wrong with modernizing a bunch of old tanks and winning a war with them. just slap on some extra armor, new engines, and electronics packages, and put them in defensive roles or mix them in with modern tanks. it's not like they're there in lieu of extra t-90s that's the thing, they think Russia ran out of tanks Weird thing is we never stopped seeing their infantry supported by T-72B3M's, T-90's and T-80's. I think we got some pictures of the DMR militias using some of the T-62's. It's also possible the T-62's were being used as ad-hoc infantry guns against infantry strong points because, hey, they have thousands of these things and their guns fire perfectly good HE. Make no mistake, the lib narrative is that Russia ran out of its modern tanks and is down to T-55's and T-62's.
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Mar 13, 2024 15:45
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:It kills me that this is the narrative people have latched onto. I never really put together how in the US sphere this wunderwaffen propaganda is essentially the same phenomenon but you're on point. Frex, I suspect, given how they're presented as our Invincible Finger of God in the West, most people don't realize drones are propeller-driven and they'd be vaguely disappointed to learn this.
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Mar 13, 2024 15:55
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Personally I blame the atomic bomb. Our enemies are ontological evil and we must decisively triumph through our technological superiority
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Mar 13, 2024 15:57
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Regarde Aduck posted:that's the thing, they think Russia ran out of tanks yeah it's all war cheerleading baghdad bob stuff. it shouldn't be surprising it's incoherent
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Mar 13, 2024 15:59
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woops wrong thread
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Mar 13, 2024 16:00
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mush. moo
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Mar 13, 2024 16:10
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I see we had ourselves a little tankie panky last night
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Mar 13, 2024 16:19
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:It kills me that this is the narrative people have latched onto. That's not what commodity fetishism is. But otherwise yeah probably some sort of cult of the new. If we have a new (nearly identical) iPhone every year and the companies spend billions in adversing convincing us that this means the old poo poo sucks then welp maybe those expectations spill over everywhere including to lawmakers and generals. We live in a society that freely lets corporations poison everyone's minds with their advertising after all.
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Mar 13, 2024 16:56
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StashAugustine posted:Personally I blame the atomic bomb. Our enemies are ontological evil and we must decisively triumph through our technological superiority vorsprung durch technik You have to remember that the US not only decided Nazis were absolutely better than the US at war after beating them, not only hired Nazis to write doctrine, not only hired Nazis to write history, but - and this is the bit everyone knows about and thinks is a good thing - hired Nazis to design weapons. It would be odd if their thinking did not have have an impact on how things are conceptualized, because then why hire them? The idea that German tanks in WW2 were bad only started spreading in popular consciousness very recently. The 88mm is still idolized to this day. Popular WW2 history depicts Nazis as having almost won until the US beat them through sheer willpower and grit and individual heroics of Our Brave Boys. Lend-lease is only mentioned to denigrate Soviet contributions, not to emphasize massive industrial power as the reason the Allies won. Oh and of course let's not forget that ~The Blitz~ is very central to British identity to this day. You can't do that if you imply the Luftwaffe was not that big of a deal. The victory in the Battle of Britain is not impressive if the enemy was not powerful. Victory over Rommel is not impressive if he is not a genius. So, two of the three biggest Allied countries base their identity on how good at war the Nazis were. It's a very short leap from there to deciding that it's worth copying them. Compare the weight of modern Western tanks being more than a King Tiger, to the weight of Soviet tanks remaining very manageable until the T-14, which in itself is kind of a lib-brained boondoggle. Zeppelin Insanity has issued a correction as of 17:13 on Mar 13, 2024 |
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Mar 13, 2024 16:58
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Orange Devil posted:That's not what commodity fetishism is. But otherwise yeah probably some sort of cult of the new. If we have a new (nearly identical) iPhone every year and the companies spend billions in adversing convincing us that this means the old poo poo sucks then welp maybe those expectations spill over everywhere including to lawmakers and generals. This high tech fetish just kind of blew up out of nowhere after the cold war. I think we can blame the dotcom boom and the consistent demand of new startup gimmicks to push up the stock market for it.
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Mar 13, 2024 17:12
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Forgot if this ever got posted here, but Ukraine clearly shows that Abrams are not invincible, which definitely comes as a shock to everyone in this thread.  These two pictures showed up literally days after the first pictures of Abrams in Ukraine. On a side note, it is tragically funny that Russians keep adding more top attack protection to their tanks, with tank hats now evolving to be lined with ERA tiles, and meanwhile Ukraine cannot do this because they have decided to base part of their identity on insisting that doing so would be cringe. They could change their mind at any second, but to do so wouldn't be very reddit.
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Mar 13, 2024 17:21
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drilldo squirt posted:Tankies are fascists wearing the skin of a real communist killed in a Stalin purge. Thank you for reading. 
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Mar 13, 2024 17:22
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stephenthinkpad posted:This high tech fetish just kind of blew up out of nowhere after the cold war. I think we can blame the dotcom boom and the consistent demand of new startup gimmicks to push up the stock market for it. There can be no political solutions. The winners have already been decided. So the only solutions allowed for our many problems are technological. The perfect technological solution must crafted to fit the whims and hang ups of the elite. Or at least be obscure enough to temporarily escape their notice.
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Mar 13, 2024 17:30
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Son of Sorrow posted:Goons will cry and moan about Trotskyites all day but can't even notice the trots in their midst. It's very hard to differentiate an actual trot from a moron who just coincidentally has the exact same ideas
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Mar 13, 2024 17:41
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drilldo squirt posted:Tankies are fascists wearing the skin of a real communist killed in a Stalin purge. Thank you for reading. lol
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Mar 13, 2024 17:46
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:It kills me that this is the narrative people have latched onto. If somebody drove a tank down my street I would not be thinking "that's not even one of the better tanks." The main interesting thing about it is that it's there, everything else goes after that
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Mar 13, 2024 18:01
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Any tank is better than no tank, except maybe some of the really garbage early war Japanese ones
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Mar 13, 2024 18:04
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All weapons become obsolete and useless after enough time. For example, knives were invented thousands of years ago and now bounce harmlessly off human skin
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Mar 13, 2024 18:08
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Real Mean Queen posted:If somebody drove a tank down my street I would not be thinking "that's not even one of the better tanks." The main interesting thing about it is that it's there, everything else goes after that A tank rolls down the street of my midwestern city after the Sino-American war. A Type 85-IIM? Even a type 90-I would be chuegy. Cringe and gay, I tell everyone around me in the queue for the daily Mandatory People's Reeducation Program.
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Mar 13, 2024 18:12
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:vorsprung durch technik The t-14 is yes and no, it isn’t what that Russians need, at least in its present form, but honestly a crew less turret, a better gun, a separate crew compartment, and more advanced ERA are all good ideas but the result together is a big expensive tank on a battlefield that is trending in the other direction. At best, it is a good deterrence and technological demonstrator, but it makes a lot more sense to build more T-90Ms. That is the tricky thing, new tech isn’t always some boongoogle or old equipment is completely useless, it kind of just depends. Honestly, for example, M109 really badly does need a replacement but the US can’t seem to figure it out. There are better SPGs out there.
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Mar 13, 2024 18:19
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The Oldest Man posted:It's very hard to differentiate an actual trot from a moron who just coincidentally has the exact same ideas it is easy enough, do they try and sell you a newspaper?
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Mar 13, 2024 18:28
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The Oldest Man posted:It's very hard to differentiate an actual trot from a moron who just coincidentally has the exact same ideas he definately isn't a trot. His entire persona was being a wacky character until the Ukraine war happened at which point he decided he was political, was part of the real left wing and knew a lot about geopolitics
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Mar 13, 2024 18:37
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Regarde Aduck posted:he definately isn't a trot. His entire persona was being a wacky character until the Ukraine war happened at which point he decided he was political, was part of the real left wing and knew a lot about geopolitics Brother, that is the origin of most online Trotskyites.
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Mar 13, 2024 18:39
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Trabisnikof posted:it is easy enough, do they try and sell you a newspaper? More importantly, do you scream stupid jargon at people while trying to sell said newspaper?
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Mar 13, 2024 18:40
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Regarde Aduck posted:he definately isn't a trot. His entire persona was being a wacky character until the Ukraine war happened at which point he decided he was political, was part of the real left wing and knew a lot about geopolitics he's just a retard with zero beliefs
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Mar 13, 2024 18:52
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drilldo squirt posted:Tankies are fascists wearing the skin of a real communist killed in a Stalin purge. Thank you for reading. The real communist is the fat amerilard who makes youtube videos on the revolutionary potential of Fallout New Vegas.
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Mar 13, 2024 18:57
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The Russians are just keeping market interest engaged with the T-14, they will bring the "T-34 Reloaded" back in due time.
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Mar 13, 2024 19:02
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drilldo squirt posted:Tankies are fascists wearing the skin of a real communist killed in a Stalin purge. Thank you for reading. that’s right
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Mar 13, 2024 19:03
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Tankbuster posted:The real communist is the fat amerilard who makes youtube videos on the revolutionary potential of Fallout New Vegas. They wouldn't like that because in that ending you had an army and coalition. Why have an armed vanguard when you can just have vibes
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Mar 13, 2024 19:04
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No why should I march on Versailles and kill or capture the royalists this commune is working fine
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Mar 13, 2024 19:06
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Abrams rolling through my suburbs "your tanks are poo poo!
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Mar 13, 2024 19:10
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*with my dying breath, literally ripped in half by 30 mike* "technically it's a light armored vehicle. it doesn't even have treads."
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Mar 13, 2024 19:13
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Holy poo poo, a trot!
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Mar 13, 2024 19:18
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Real Mean Queen posted:I'm hearing that it makes you look poor and is embarrassing when you're fielding last year's army https://twitter.com/Heroiam_Slava/status/1767831308451922272 quote:UKRAINE NEED THEM, RIGHT !?
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Mar 13, 2024 19:26
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Regarde Aduck posted:he definately isn't a trot. His entire persona was being a wacky character until the Ukraine war happened at which point he decided he was political, was part of the real left wing and knew a lot about geopolitics is this like a "sparkling democratic centralist" argument or what idgi
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Mar 13, 2024 19:39
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Isentropy posted:They wouldn't like that because in that ending you had an army and coalition. Why have an armed vanguard when you can just have vibes ITS A VIDEOGAME. The Bolsheviks didn't write books. They went out and did things. Scared the imperial powers so much that they gave their workers rights and a higher share of the imperial superprofits for two entire generations. Some whiny backsliding cretin whose brain got activated in between 500 load screen crashes and thinks if they poast long enough about their arcane knowledge of videogames there will be socialism (but good this time) is pondscum. There was nothing like what the USSR accomplished, and as a symbol of hope for the toiling masses of people outside the precious walled garden it is unparalleled - with the PRC finally starting to provide an alternative. None of the people making "leftist analyses" of videogames on youtube grew up in societies where people were building up towards something greater and it shows. All they have is generation x cynicism. Which is why a game where you use the american murder deathbot to kill the remnants of a fascist US government and deliver free and clean water to all misses the deep and moral nuances of sitting on your rear end and going "hmm, that guys bad too." Edit: I should rephrase that to "the bolsheviks did more than write books." Tankbuster has issued a correction as of 21:25 on Mar 13, 2024 |
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Mar 13, 2024 19:54
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Ardennes posted:The t-14 is yes and no, it isn’t what that Russians need, at least in its present form, but honestly a crew less turret, a better gun, a separate crew compartment, and more advanced ERA are all good ideas but the result together is a big expensive tank on a battlefield that is trending in the other direction. At best, it is a good deterrence and technological demonstrator, but it makes a lot more sense to build more T-90Ms. I was more referring to the fact that apparently the T-14 procurement and development process is very much a boondoggle. As evidenced by the fact it isn't in service despite being in prototype form for a long, long time, and being seemingly a major focus for a while. Along with all the other vehicles within the same family having frequent issues and not being close to ready for service. I do think it uses a lot of concepts that are very good, and is ahead of Western efforts and Western thinking. That said, making the tank huge really comes with a lot of issues that I think the Russians are just not used to solving because they usually kept their tanks very compact, for good reason. Also, genuine question, what's actually wrong with the M109?
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Mar 13, 2024 19:59
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:Also, genuine question, what's actually wrong with the M109? Not much, really, hence cancelling crusader. ERCA was never intended to replace the 109. M109A7s are being built and produced still, today. Though at this point it’s kind of the M109 of Theseus.
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Mar 13, 2024 20:08
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