|
People can still discuss the stuff they find interesting since there will be a whole lot of stuff people like and want to talk about that Cythereal doesn’t. Pretty much all of my favourite stuff for the most part I expect to get skipped or acknowledged then avoided, since I’m pretty bleh on Azata as a mythic path. It’s part of why Wrath is cool is that it’s got a broad range of interesting content you actively pick and choose what you want to engage with and it’s hard to do that and actually succeed.
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 20:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 18:32 |
|
|
RevolverDivider posted:People can still discuss the stuff they find interesting since there will be a whole lot of stuff people like and want to talk about that Cythereal doesn’t. And I will ask people to take it to the video games thread when it gets out of hand. I am tolerating the thread talking about how much some people like a goddamn rapist who doesn't show a shred of remorse over his actions because he was drunk and thought it was funny because I did, unfortunately, recruit Daeran.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 20:42
|
|
|
Daeran was the only character whose dialogue I started to just skim over because his permanent smarm was simply insufferable. He feels like a throwback to a less refined, more labored era of rpg scriptwriting, which to be fair is something that is present pretty consistently throughout owlcat's work steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Mar 12, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 20:43
|
|
|
achtungnight posted:Succubi are lust demons in the shape of beautiful women, if you didn’t know that already. They have red skin, bat wings, horns, and claws to give away their origins. They function well as seducers or rapists depending on their mood. Beware their compelling gaze, level draining touch, and tendency to be surrounded by enthralled minions. The male equivalent we’ll see sooner or later is the incubus. Iirc, succubi in Pathfinder can also take male shape. Meanwhile, incubi are typically in male form but can also be in female shape, and are not lust demons at all, but some kind of violence or torture demons, I think. It's always kind of interesting when incubi are not just male succubi.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 20:50
|
|
|
It's always interesting to see other people's tolerances to different characters. Like, get Nenio away from me. I can't stand her. But Daeran can smarm around me all day.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 20:52
|
|
|
You can always complete Daeran’s quest to justly condemn him to a bad ending, but it’s your LP. Do as you enjoy. I personally like the Azata path, but I’m also not about to go full bore on it and try and be overly merciful to everyone I can. I agree some people don’t deserve it more than for game mechanics. That’s not always a compelling argument. In Daeran’s case, the benefits are mostly in Crusade Mode.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 21:04
|
|
|
What is Daeran's Oracle curse? The plague one?
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 21:15
|
|
|
I have a simple policy that those who can be helped, should be. Suffice to say my current very modded game has me rolling as Salvation Angel + True Azata + Gold Dragon for maximum good guy, hahaha.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 21:17
|
|
|
Kanthulhu posted:What is Daeran's Oracle curse? The plague one? It's the one that staggers him in the first round of combat. Which is a pain but tolerable.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 21:19
|
|
|
Kanthulhu posted:What is Daeran's Oracle curse? The plague one? He gets staggered the first round of any combat.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 21:19
|
|
|
He got "Powerless Prophecy", then. I thought "Plagued" would fit his backstory better. But I don't know anything about this game, though
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 21:29
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:I am tolerating the thread talking about how much some people like a goddamn rapist who doesn't show a shred of remorse over his actions because he was drunk and thought it was funny because I did, unfortunately, recruit Daeran.  What the gently caress? I do not remember him saying this- when does he do so? I remember him mocking Terendelev, I remember him telling a story getting some mercenaries killed, but I sure as hell don't remember this, unless it's on his romance path (which I still haven't done), and while he might have his reasons for saying that on his romance, the fact that he would say them at all is abhorrent.I am deeply sorry, Cythereal. I didn't know about this, and was going by solely on his party banter in the later acts, as well as the end of his personal quest. gently caress me, I swear I didn't know about this, and I'm definitely putting off my plans to reinstall the game, what the poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 21:58
|
|
|
I think she's referring to him putting a love potion into a keg and locking people in a room to see what will happen.Kanthulhu posted:He got "Powerless Prophecy", then. I thought "Plagued" would fit his backstory better. But I don't know anything about this game, though Plagued doesn't fit once you go into his backstory Slaan fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Mar 12, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 21:59
|
|
|
CommissarMega posted:
He talked about it when we met him at his estate. Cythereal posted:
Just a little rape-by-proxy of my employees because I was drunk and thought it was funny, no biggie. This is why I loathe Daeran, and it has nothing to do with his Dark and Troubled Past. It has to do with him being a goddamn rear end in a top hat.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 22:01
|
|
"What's this? An attractive paladin with a sense of humor? You're a veritable walking scandal. Either way, my mansion is now safe. I have a pair of half-decent guards. I just need to drag them out of the storeroom and bring them to their senses... I ordered them to drink a love potion, you see, for reasons which seemed extremely witty at the time and in the state of inebriation I then found myself in. They can guard the house while the valorous paladins beat back the demon assault. They will beat them back, yes? (The count is silent for a moment, thinking.) "As regards myself, I feel like stretching my legs. I know rudimentary divine spells, I am no friend to demons, and I elevate any society that I deign to grace with my presence. I shall accompany you — only for a short time, of course. I have no desire to remain at the vanguard for a protracted period. What say you, my ephemeral but highly diverting acquaintance? After all, Lord Deskari spoiled my party. I now burn with the desire to spoil his."
|
Cythereal posted:He talked about it when we met him at his estate. I can't believe I missed that  Again, I'm really sorry, I didn't mean to be a rape apologist (which I will admit I was because I'm an idiot who can't read).
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 22:03
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:He talked about it when we met him at his estate. Rape by proxy is certainly one interpretation of those events, though there are others as well. Morality always gets murky when magic with effects that can't be reproduced in the real world get involved. Also, what even exactly happened after they drank the love potion? The game definitely implies something sexual was going on, though it's not outright stated. They could as well be reciting poetry to each other. But this is entirely irrelevant. After all, you don't have to justify yourself for why you bring certain NPCs along. Even if you didn't bring Daeran because you didn't like his artwork. I don't get people trying to argue why their favorite characters should be brought along against the wished of the LPer. Fake edit: I also kind of like the all-female party we will get. At least I think we will get an all-female party? Do you need a healer on story difficulty? I'm really tired, but I think both natural full-time healers are male. Torrannor fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Mar 12, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 22:07
|
|
|
CommissarMega posted:I can't believe I missed that It's a video game, you are not rape apologist just because you like a piece of digital code more than another.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 22:27
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:Do you need a healer on story difficulty? I'm really tired, but I think both natural full-time healers are male. We'll have enough part-time healers, and the party won't be all-female seeing as Camellia has a date with the worms and Wendy was last seen blasting off again. It will be close, but not a fully fledged ride of the amazons.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 22:30
|
|
|
Ember can be an excellent healer if you spec her right.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 22:38
|
|
|
You also don’t really need a dedicated healer? It’s a nice thing in between fights to heal up but you’re not under much time pressure in this game outside of a few specific bits and actions in combat are usually better used to disable or kill enemies.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 22:45
|
|
|
You don't need a dedicated healer at all. In fact, a "dedicated healer" makes the game more difficult, especially at higher difficulties; healing is very, very rarely an efficient use of actions in combat (until near late-game, you will almost never outheal damage dealt round-by-round), and outside of combat, you have access to healing consumables, special cleric and paladin abilities, or simply just resting. Nor do you even want to be taking much damage, as combat can be very swingy; few enemies beat you up a little over time, compared to those that you either negate or who crush you on sight. In contrast, I found Daeren's curse to be a nightmare to deal with; the first round of combat is often the most important, at least with how I tend to play, and starting staggered means Daeren spends that first round doing near gently caress all.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 23:03
|
|
|
How old is Daeran supposed to be anyway? Galfrey's age gets explained, but is it just "oracle magic" for himCythereal posted:And indeed this is basically how the demon path is initially treated if you choose to play that way. You're a major loose cannon with a worrying streak of murderous rage, but you're killing enough demons and cultists that Irabeth decides the collateral damage is, ultimately, acceptable even if she's very unhappy about it. The best part of demon is how its somehow less objectionable than Lich
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 23:16
|
|
|
Nissin Cup Nudist posted:How old is Daeran supposed to be anyway? Galfrey's age gets explained, but is it just "oracle magic" for him He seems to be generally late 20s/early 30s as far as behavior goes. He's an aasimar (specifically Musetouched, meaning that one of his ancestors boned an azata), so he's longer-lived than normal humans.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 23:20
|
|
|
Nissin Cup Nudist posted:How old is Daeran supposed to be anyway? Galfrey's age gets explained, but is it just "oracle magic" for him Daeran is at the very oldest very early 20s, as the incident that gave him his current perspective is directly mentioned to have happened 10 years ago, and he was still a young child at the time. He might not even be 20, depending on just how young he was (it's not explicitly defined). Aasimars live notably longer than normal humans, but unlike elves it's never really been defined that they age to adulthood any slower. He's a some number of times removed cousin to Galfrey due the mess of nobility bloodlines - he's nowhere near her actual age.. Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Mar 13, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2024 00:13
|
|
|
The only character I actively dislike won't show up for another little bit, but his gimmick dips into "worst guy you know makes a good point" and it's just the dumbest poo poo to me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2024 00:27
|
|
|
The characters I actively dislike are either not built well, have very few redeeming qualities as far as benefits for keeping them around, insist you put up with various atrocities with not much in return, or have some combination of all these. Daeran is largely on the tolerable list because he can at least laugh at himself and admit when he makes errors. Ultimately he is loyal to the player over himself if motivated appropriately. Wendaug and Camellia are the opposite and romance doesn’t really change that. Daeran is a bastard, but you can redeem him a bit. If you want to. I personally would like to talk to the guards he drugged and see what they have to say about things before outright condemning him. But I can see how it might easily be a black mark on his record either way.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2024 00:48
|
|
|
Lord Koth posted:Aasimars live notably longer than normal humans, but unlike elves it's never really been defined that they age to adulthood any slower. They don't live any longer than humans anymore. Technically, Human "adult" starts at 15, while Aasimar "adult" starts at 20, so they do sort of age a bit slower - though, granted, it's hard to know which version of the Advanced Race Guide Owlcat is using for them. ARG's 1st Printing had all the Planetouched (Aasimar, Oread, Tiefling, Ifrit, Sylph, Undine) in the same age categories, so Aasimar and Tiefling used to hit adult at 60. The ARG 2nd Printing moved just the Aasimar and Tiefling to adult at 20 with identical age categories to humans (middle-aged at 35, Old at 53, Venerable at 70, +2d20 years maximum lifespan) but kept their training ages the same (+4d6, +6d6, +8d6). Daeran can be, by the rules, anywhere between 24 and 44 as a "starting" Oracle, if using the 2nd Printing ARG - though it's entirely possible by the now very screwy rules to have a 68 year old 1st-level Aasimar/Tiefling Wizard, too. RelentlessImp fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Mar 13, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2024 02:51
|
|
|
I can’t really consider the love potion thing rape by proxy on the grounds he told two people to drink a love potion while drunk and they agreed to do so. Yes he is an rear end in a top hat, he admits he is just being a dick if you talk to him at defenders heart. Also yes, while I enjoy his story, there is no engage with him more than you want to Cythereal you do you. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Mar 13, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2024 05:11
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:Mimics! Wrath's interpretation of this venerable fantasy monster is, in my opinion, honestly kind of adorable. They're quite sturdy for this point in the game, but slow and don't have the sense to wait until you get close to reveal themselves. Good thing Ember is a little more sensible than some elven magic-users. Cythereal posted:
The one I always wanted was "gold pieces per pound", because it would make dumping things when encumbered a heck of a lot easier. Also, gently caress encumbrance as a game mechanic, seriously. Dropping ten padded armors because they're one gold per ten pounds is not what I'd call engaging gameplay. Just give me a "sell stupid poo poo from anywhere" button, game, nobody cares if it's realistic or not. Cythereal posted:
Since there's a lot of Daeren chat going on, just your periodic reminder that Seelah is the best at all times. I'm willing to buck the trend here and say that I didn't really like Daeren at all. (I think I'm just tired of that archetype; I didn't like Astarion, either.) Everyone in this city has some kind of horrible backstory filled with demons, but not all of them are incredibly rich and powerful and related to royalty and all that. His demon struggles involve lavish parties and having his every material need met, whereas a lot of the demon cultists you're running into are just off of failing farms and becoming cultists as an alternative to starving to death, and your main interaction with them is a love that crushes like a mace... sorry, I misread my notes here, that's an actual mace crushing their skulls. I don't mind redeeming him because, hell, redemption is kind of a good character's stock in trade, but that doesn't mean I have to like him or think he deserves it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2024 05:49
|
|
"I met Seelah at a tavern in Kenabres. Before the attack, of course. She was one of the few who would sit at a table with the Condemned. Knights usually don't even look at us. But Seelah is different — I knew it the moment I saw her!"
"That's what made me notice Seelah too. So I sat down to talk to her. I never understood why everyone treated the Condemned so horribly, and I still don't. Our Curl is a great lad! So after that night, Seelah and I went round the taverns together every day."
|
idonotlikepeas posted:The one I always wanted was "gold pieces per pound", because it would make dumping things when encumbered a heck of a lot easier. The goon who made the BuffBot mod made exactly this one as well. Both are very useful.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2024 07:38
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:I can’t really consider the love potion thing rape by proxy on the grounds he told two people to drink a love potion while drunk and they agreed to do so. He ordered people in his employ to drink a love potion and then locked them in a room together. That is, in fact, rape by proxy, with a side order of quid pro quo sexual harassment.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2024 00:20
|
|
|
RelentlessImp posted:He ordered people in his employ to drink a love potion and then locked them in a room together. That is, in fact, rape by proxy, with a side order of quid pro quo sexual harassment. My question is- did the guards in question know what they were drinking? If yes, they consented and there was no rape involved. If no, well, yeah, we got a problem. But the game doesn't tell us either way.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2024 00:50
|
|
|
I mean, he did 'order' them. So any consent would be coerced at best.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2024 01:06
|
|
|
I am also inclined to say that consent is impossible with a love potion, given that its whole purpose is to void consent.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2024 01:29
|
|
|
The game ultimately doesn't go into it. It's presented as him doing something stupid and debauched that he thought was funny during his big racous party where everyone is naked and dancing on tables, hired courtesans and nobles alike, rather then him doing a serious sexual assault, which is not to say you're wrong for reading it as serious sexual assault. It wasn't intended to cross a morality line, which is not the same as saying that it won't cross a morality line for you, the viewer. My read is that it was intended to be a show of his debauchery rather then him being written as a rapist, and whoever wrote that part missed their mark. It literally never comes up past that one mention, nor does he ever do anything remotely similar or close to that in the game itself. He is, other then that one line, consistently presented as a petty jackass who enjoys being mean and pissing people off, for reasons relating to the character that you can choose to accept or not, and that if you get past the part of him that inentionally pushes people away, he's sweet and charming. He hates the Crusade for his own reason, and hates the demons far more. When it comes to matters of sex, he's a hedonist, but, again, is never presented as someone who encourages or is even ok with sexual assault, and at least once much later on is very violently against it. ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Mar 14, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2024 01:32
|
|
|
Does a love potion mean immediate aphrodisiac? Not being sarcastic, I actually don't know how that works in pathfinder verse, if that means immediately bang the first person you see or if they're both realizing they're horrible romantic poets. Since I can't read implications to save my life, I'm just guessing the former is what's being hinted at. Then again, I've gotten the feeling I'm the weirdo for disassociating romantic interest and sexuality.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2024 02:18
|
|
|
achtungnight posted:My question is- did the guards in question know what they were drinking? If yes, they consented and there was no rape involved. If no, well, yeah, we got a problem. But the game doesn't tell us either way. Someone doesn't understand power dynamics or what it means when someone in authority orders a subordinate to commit to something like this. Drakenel posted:Does a love potion mean immediate aphrodisiac? Not being sarcastic, I actually don't know how that works in pathfinder verse, if that means immediately bang the first person you see or if they're both realizing they're horrible romantic poets. Pathfinder's Love Potion, 'Philter of Love', forces love onto a person and is permanent without at least mid-level magic. There's also a lower level version that lasts 1d3 hours - but either way, it's coercion at best and date-rape drugs at worst. RelentlessImp fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Mar 14, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2024 02:39
|
|
|
Drakenel posted:Does a love potion mean immediate aphrodisiac? Not being sarcastic, I actually don't know how that works in pathfinder verse, if that means immediately bang the first person you see or if they're both realizing they're horrible romantic poets. Given we're still like level 3, it's gonna be the lower level one. Also Daeren literally states it's going to wear off, so it's clearly not the permanent one. "This sweet-tasting liquid causes the character drinking it to become enraptured with the first creature she sees after consuming the draft (as charm person—the drinker must be a humanoid of Medium or smaller size, Will DC 14 negates). The charm effect wears off in 1d3 hours." As for how Charm person works: "This charm makes a humanoid creature regard you as its trusted friend and ally (treat the target’s attitude as friendly). " So...no. It's not a date rape drug. As fun as it is to imagine all the horrible and lurid things Daeren inflicted on the guards, it is not written to be the equivilant of sexual assault, nor in the text is it the equivilant of sexual assault. ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Mar 14, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2024 02:52
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:So...no. It's not a date rape drug. As fun as it is to imagine all the horrible and lurid things Daeren inflicted on the guards, it is not written to be the equivilant of sexual assault, nor in the text is it the equivilant of sexual assault. Sorry? Forcing 'good feelings' onto a person that you can then take advantage of isn't the definition of a date-rape drug? Hey guys ProfessorCirno just solved the 'can you give consent while drunk' question - they're in favor of it! Guess we can let Azure Horizon back on the boards! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2024 03:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 18:32 |
|
|
Wasn't sure, but it's still sketch as all hell and there's no real good reason for making people drink it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2024 03:03
|
|