(Thread IKs:
fatherboxx)
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... Are they expected to provide their own air defense?
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Mar 14, 2024 12:31
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OddObserver posted:... Are they expected to provide their own air defense? Dunno, but they are probably expected to meet fire safety standards and have working damage control/mitigation systems in place by now. Investigations will take place and scapegoats need to be determined and a lot of that fire safety investment money probably went into dachas and cocaine instead of new fire protection doors.
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Mar 14, 2024 12:46
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OddObserver posted:... Are they expected to provide their own air defense? It's most likely more about what GABA ghoul said, but at the same time Lukoil has its own PMC called Lukom-A. It started out as a security company, so while some of their mercs fight in Ukraine, their main responsibility is to guard Lukoil's infrastructure and cargo. Maybe there is some level of cooperation with air defence forces that is expected from them where they couldn't deliver.
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Mar 14, 2024 12:58
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OddObserver posted:... Are they expected to provide their own air defense? At least this guy says they should: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_goDrMBZep4&t=188s Zat fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Mar 14, 2024 |
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Mar 14, 2024 13:48
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Paladinus posted:It's most likely more about what GABA ghoul said, but at the same time Lukoil has its own PMC called Lukom-A. It started out as a security company, so while some of their mercs fight in Ukraine, their main responsibility is to guard Lukoil's infrastructure and cargo. Maybe there is some level of cooperation with air defence forces that is expected from them where they couldn't deliver. Are PMCs eligible for conscription in Russia? I'm wondering how that would work.
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Mar 14, 2024 14:52
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Umbreon posted:Are PMCs eligible for conscription in Russia? I'm wondering how that would work. Legally, they don't exist at all. They still don't sign contracts with RAF, as far as I know, so they are not conscripts, at best they are considered volunteers. The way Wagner operated was famously very, err, ad hoc. Millions in cash transported in minivans, Prigozhin personally shaking hands with generals and army officials to get artillery, etc. After Prigozhin's gently caress-(co)up, my understanding is PMCs are more embedded in the official army structure, they are just paid better, have a bit more independence in day-to-day operation, and are more specialised and 'risk-tolerant'.
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Mar 14, 2024 15:25
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I thought part of what prompted Wagner to Wag the Dog was the RAF doing an about-course on that policy and forcing PMC's to officially register? (I think the whole absurd deal had been simmering for a while, but that was when the rumor mill really started to tick up).
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Mar 14, 2024 15:34
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haddedam posted:Frontal assaults with chinese golf karts, MTLB, ww2 tanks and downgraded electronics on """""""newly manufactured""""" tanks does not scream "russia is an industrial powerhouse that is ontop of the ball and is ready and capable of easily wiping ukraine and baltics" Have there been actual WW2 tanks? Oldest I've seen is T-55s.
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Mar 14, 2024 16:07
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Yeah that all sounds like "Poland charged German tanks with horses in WW2" myth
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Mar 14, 2024 16:22
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Popete posted:Yeah that all sounds like "Poland charged German tanks with horses in WW2" myth Its not
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Mar 14, 2024 16:25
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I'm sure you can find context-less combat footage of Russians in "golf carts" on Reddit. I'm not inclined to believe they are making mass frontal assaults in them.
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Mar 14, 2024 16:29
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Popete posted:Yeah that all sounds like "Poland charged German tanks with horses in WW2" myth There are multiple, visually confirmed engagements and losses of Russian T-55s. It's not a myth in the least.
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Mar 14, 2024 16:30
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T-54/55 is a post-war tank.
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Mar 14, 2024 16:33
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Blue Footed Booby posted:Have there been actual WW2 tanks? Oldest I've seen is T-55s. During the early stages of the 2014 phase of the war there were several videos of pro-russian militia getting some old ISU-152 war memorials running. Were they actually used is more of a question. Certainly in the current phase of the conflict the T-54 seems to be the oldest.
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Mar 14, 2024 16:34
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I think we've seen T-34's for rear area guard duty?
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Mar 14, 2024 16:37
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Popete posted:I'm sure you can find context-less combat footage of Russians in "golf carts" on Reddit. I'm not inclined to believe they are making mass frontal assaults in them. There are reports of Russians attacking on ATV's, not sure why they're being called "golf carts" though. edit: https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-7-2024 quote:Ukrainian Tavriisk Group of Forces Spokesperson Dmytro Lykhovyi stated that Russian forces have increased their use of all-terrain vehicles (ATVs) to transport infantry, especially over minefields, in the Zaporizhia direction. SaTaMaS fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Mar 14, 2024 |
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Mar 14, 2024 16:44
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T-55's are indeed very old but not WW2 tanks and could still have a purpose, I remember hearing them being used in more indirect fire roles. I'm not saying Russia isn't scraping the barrel for equipment but I think it's a bit misleading to characterize them as making frontal assaults with golf carts and WW2 tanks. It paints a picture of a completely inept and depleted force which is clearly not the case or else Ukraine wouldn't be in such a difficult situation.
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Mar 14, 2024 16:44
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Raenir Salazar posted:I think we've seen T-34's for rear area guard duty? We have not. Russia actually very few T-34's. They turned a few into monuments, but overall they were not sentimental about them, and after they were deemed surplus to requirements the old tanks were scrapped for the metal. Putin actually bought a company of them from Laos (where they were still in frontline use until recently) for a parade in Moscow, which led to some funny headlines, but those are not going to the front.
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Mar 14, 2024 16:56
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Popete posted:T-55's are indeed very old but not WW2 tanks and could still have a purpose, I remember hearing them being used in more indirect fire roles. This sorta depends, the T-54/55 series is based off of developments of the T-44, which first started being produced late war; with the first T-54's being produced in 1949. If we're just talking about the chassis and basic gun then its essentially a more advanced WW2 tank; it's not until like modernization kits like adding active reactive armor, new armament like a 120mm gun, sights, etc that the tank starts to more radically depart from what we'd think of as a "WW2 tank" because the armor is just rolled homogenous plate while the T-64, T-72, etc have composite armor, can fire ATGMs etc. Like any tank is still better than no tank as Russia is proving during an attrition conflict like this but if T-55A's are being fielded and engaging at the front in the traditional roles a tank would have, then yeah I'd say Russia is indeed scrapping the barrel insofar as equipment is concerned; either because of unsustainable losses in more advanced models of tanks or because the front is just that large and demanding of armored fighting vehicles who have the mobility, armor, and firepower to serve that role.
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Mar 14, 2024 17:02
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Nenonen posted:T-54/55 is a post-war tank. Every t-34 that still exists is a post-war tank, built for export or museum duty. But I do recall someone in the Donetsk/Luhansk region, rolling one out of the museum back in 2022, and it made headlines because it managed to move under own power, while people in this very thread speculating how it's going to fit right into DNR militia with their mosin rifles and ushankas. Nitrox fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Mar 14, 2024 |
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Mar 14, 2024 17:02
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Tuna-Fish posted:We have not. Russia actually very few T-34's. They turned a few into monuments, but overall they were not sentimental about them, and after they were deemed surplus to requirements the old tanks were scrapped for the metal. Putin actually bought a company of them from Laos (where they were still in frontline use until recently) for a parade in Moscow, which led to some funny headlines, but those are not going to the front. Seems like I was thinking of images like this one where they were placed at checkpoints as roadblocks and scarecrows/decoys.
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Mar 14, 2024 17:06
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Ynglaur posted:There are multiple, visually confirmed engagements and losses of Russian T-55s. It's not a myth in the least. The first version of the T-54 went into production in 1948. The 55 officially entered production in '54. Gotta love Soviet naming conventions. I remember that video of some Ukrainians with a box of hand tools and rubber hoses getting a memorial T-34 running. And that other video of some Russians catching sight of a different tank-on-a-pedestal T-34, panicking, and shooting the poo poo out of it. But I was pretty sure there wasn't confirmation of them being deliberately used in combat.
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Mar 14, 2024 17:08
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I'm aware that the T-54/55 series came out after WW2. I thought the OP was claiming that their use was the myth. I suppose they might have been referring to the "WW2-era tanks" part as the myth.
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Mar 14, 2024 17:43
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MechanicalTomPetty posted:I thought part of what prompted Wagner to Wag the Dog was the RAF doing an about-course on that policy and forcing PMC's to officially register? Not register but fold into unified army structure as "volunteer battalions" with personnel and arms arranged as Russian General Staff desires.
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Mar 14, 2024 17:47
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Russian military being thought of as the worlds most powerful and then having to resort to dragging t55s out of storage to on The 3rd year of its 3 day special military operation to denazify Ukrainian biola sis the real takeway here. Doesn't matter technologically ww2 tank missed the classification deadline by a few years. Ridicule is the way to remove power. Pro russian populations need to realize russia is something to make fun of, not cheer on and share their propaganda
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Mar 14, 2024 17:51
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haddedam posted:Russian military being thought of as the worlds most powerful and then having to resort to dragging t55s out of storage to on The 3rd year of its 3 day special military operation to denazify Ukrainian biola sis the real takeway here. No one thought Russia's military was the most powerful, I think every single serious analysis has put "Lol its the USA, duh".
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Mar 14, 2024 17:56
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You'd be pretty shocked to find out how many non westerners think Russia could 1v1 Usa.
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Mar 14, 2024 18:03
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I thought it was.
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Mar 14, 2024 18:03
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I've always heard the RAF referred to as "the second most powerful military in the world" which has led to the jokes about how it's now "the second most powerful military in Ukraine".
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Mar 14, 2024 18:04
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haddedam posted:You'd be pretty shocked to find out how many non westerners think Russia could 1v1 Usa. I would not be. That's not a serious military analysis, I'm sure I can find many people thinking many incorrect things. To clarify I probably should have said "No one who actually needs to keep track of that poo poo" Dandywalken posted:I thought it was. By what metric, analysis. Edit: We could discuss this for awhile but in short the US has a hilariously insane logistical network, bases around the world to support said network, an insane propensity to dump trillions of dollars to develop new military technology, and the kicker: It's actually done poo poo somewhat recently with its military to demonstrate all the above. It's not fought a peer to peer conflict so the capabilities in that scenario are unknown, but thats also true for every one else. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Mar 14, 2024 |
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Mar 14, 2024 18:06
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Nitrox posted:Every t-34 that still exists is a post-war tank, built for export or museum duty. There are WW2 runners left. For example: http://www.andreaslarka.net/ps231001/ps231001.html
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Mar 14, 2024 18:31
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Popete posted:T-55's are indeed very old but not WW2 tanks and could still have a purpose, I remember hearing them being used in more indirect fire roles. Putting them on ramps and firing them ballistically?
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Mar 14, 2024 18:56
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Dandywalken posted:I thought it was. The C.C.C.P. was in many regards... things changed. 
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Mar 14, 2024 19:05
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haddedam posted:Frontal assaults with chinese golf karts, MTLB, ww2 tanks and downgraded electronics on """""""newly manufactured""""" tanks does not scream "russia is an industrial powerhouse that is ontop of the ball and is ready and capable of easily wiping ukraine and baltics" You have vanquished an argument no one made using some facts that aren’t true.
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Mar 14, 2024 19:30
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Charliegrs posted:Do you actually know if the people that can re-barrel artillery cannons are leaving the country? It's not like some cutting edge tech. 
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Mar 14, 2024 19:39
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TheBuilder posted:Putting them on ramps and firing them ballistically? idk if they would even need ramps as its DT-10 (100mm gun) probably has enough vertical angle to fire a decent range I would imagine. I think I remember reports of Ukraine doing something similar with their tanks and using drones to correct fire on known Russian positions.
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Mar 14, 2024 19:49
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Some interview with a Russian T-80BV crewman said they are firing indirect HE about 80% of the time iirc
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Mar 14, 2024 19:50
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When you forget to put the unit next to the +/-1.5.
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Mar 14, 2024 20:26
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It doesn't matter that Russia is using early cold war tanks like T55s, or using North Korean artillery with a high dud rate if Ukraine has nothing to shoot back with. There's no infantryman in the world that isn't going to poo poo a brick if a T55 rolls up on them if all they have to defend themself is an AK. And I dont know why people are making fun of the ATVs (which for some reason are being called golf carts) ATVs are in use by tons of militaries throughout the world. Especially by special operations forces.
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Mar 14, 2024 20:35
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Ukraine during the initial invasion if I remember were using small teams roaming around with ATVs to hit Russian columns with drones. I guess calling it "Frontal assaults with chinese golf carts" is just a way to throw a little racism into the mix
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Mar 14, 2024 20:58
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