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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObbLapUaZd4
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Mar 14, 2024 22:09
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Hooplah posted:i had the same reaction as someone not involved in your "debate" Yeah, I get the urge to think a lot of problems just won't be problems when capitalism is gone, but it's like claiming <insert crime here> is a product of capitalism and so once we have communism there won't be <insert crime here> anymore. People have been getting hosed up for as long as there have been people because it's fun. No need to overthink this.
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Mar 14, 2024 22:21
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Bar Crow posted:They only admitted Liz was dead because they needed the space to store Kate. they admitted Liz was dead once Boris was gone lol Dokapon Findom posted:I'm not a big MKULTRA guy you're an Epstein thread poster lol
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Mar 14, 2024 22:23
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Spergin Morlock posted:
Yeah but I don't buy the villain edit that Jolly West gets itt. Killing the elephant is really the only bad thing he's done
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Mar 14, 2024 22:34
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oh ok i get it. another sydney gottlieb stan coming around to dis our boy joly
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Mar 14, 2024 22:37
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i'm not MKUltra, but,
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Mar 14, 2024 22:40
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Azathoth posted:Yeah, I get the urge to think a lot of problems just won't be problems when capitalism is gone, but it's like claiming <insert crime here> is a product of capitalism and so once we have communism there won't be <insert crime here> anymore. very defeatist and pessimistic language here. reminiscent of the primary thesis of the famous book, capitalist realism. is this any different than saying “people have been racist/sexist for as long as there have been people” and admitting you cant imagine the world changing?
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Mar 14, 2024 22:41
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scary ghost dog posted:very defeatist and pessimistic language here. reminiscent of the primary thesis of the famous book, capitalist realism. is this any different than saying “people have been racist/sexist for as long as there have been people” and admitting you cant imagine the world changing? At some point you really need to learn to read if you're gonna keep posting.
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Mar 14, 2024 22:47
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Azathoth posted:At some point you really need to learn to read if you're gonna keep posting. oh, word? mr “no need to overthink this” in the thread for overthinking things?
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Mar 14, 2024 22:49
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was straight edge culture an op?
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Mar 14, 2024 22:54
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Hardbodied socialist asceticism and temperance would rule and I’m all for it, but it’s a big leap for a population that thought Methodism was so restrictive and stifling of their individuality they ran away to Haight-Ashbury to indulge themselves for a decade and fell into the CIA’s grasp.
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Mar 14, 2024 22:55
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scary ghost dog your posts are poo poo
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Mar 14, 2024 22:55
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scary ghost dog posted:oh, word? mr “no need to overthink this” in the thread for overthinking things? If you want to start thinking, everyone who reads your posts would greatly appreciate it.
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Mar 14, 2024 22:58
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:Hardbodied socialist asceticism and temperance would rule and I’m all for it, but it’s a big leap for a population that thought Methodism was so restrictive and stifling of their individuality they ran away to Haight-Ashbury to indulge themselves for a decade and fell into the CIA’s grasp. yes, this is correct. even the ostensibly hardline marxists of the cspam subforum are crippled in this way. vice is perhaps the ultimate weapon of capital
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Mar 14, 2024 22:58
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Azathoth posted:If you want to start thinking, everyone who reads your posts would greatly appreciate it. it honestly feels like nobody here is reading my posts. just pithy  after droll  ending with meaningless insult
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Mar 14, 2024 22:59
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scary ghost dog posted:yes, this is correct. even the ostensibly hardline marxists of the cspam subforum are crippled in this way. vice is perhaps the ultimate weapon of capital Don't worry, it recently shut down 
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Mar 14, 2024 23:00
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jolly was a bad dude
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Mar 14, 2024 23:01
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scary ghost dog posted:it honestly feels like nobody here is reading my posts. just pithy No, we are reading them, you just really suck at writing and when you clarified your points at length, it was apparent that you're a loving moron. As such, no one really feels like explaining to you in more detail why you're a loving moron because it's pretty clear you aren't capable of understanding.
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Mar 14, 2024 23:03
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poor people do drugs which is why they deserve to be poor
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Mar 14, 2024 23:04
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Azathoth posted:No, we are reading them, you just really suck at writing and when you clarified your points at length, it was apparent that you're a loving moron. As such, no one really feels like explaining to you in more detail why you're a loving moron because it's pretty clear you aren't capable of understanding. alright. im sorry if ive caused offense.
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Mar 14, 2024 23:06
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scary ghost dog posted:very defeatist and pessimistic language here This is funny coming from the  you're pathetic if you had fun with your drugs guy
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Mar 14, 2024 23:10
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Dokapon Findom posted:Yeah but I don't buy the villain edit that Jolly West gets itt. Killing the elephant is really the only bad thing he's done lol what the gently caress
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Mar 14, 2024 23:13
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I'd srill do MDMA under communism because it's really fun to take a load of it and dance to jungle music or whatever. It's called "ecstasy" for a reason, idiot. QED
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Mar 14, 2024 23:15
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I'm rereading Pynchon's The Crying of Lot 49. I feel like he knows some stuff.
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Mar 14, 2024 23:15
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if your revolution does not have mescaline, its not my revolution
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Mar 14, 2024 23:15
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Real hurthling! posted:was straight edge culture an op? the most obnoxious straight edge guy I knew in high school recently passed away after relapsing and overdosing 
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Mar 14, 2024 23:16
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Regulus74 posted:This is funny coming from the thats not what im saying. im saying that in a hypothetical communist world where none of the indoctrinations and influences of capitalism ever took root, recreational psychedelic drug use probably wouldnt exist, and might not even be fun. that is the specific point i am arguing. i do psychedelic drugs and have fun on a monthly basis and have for some years
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Mar 14, 2024 23:21
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Maybe. But maybe not
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Mar 14, 2024 23:22
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You are dumb as gently caress and a lovely troll. Great work.
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Mar 14, 2024 23:22
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:Maybe. But maybe not i wish everyone else were so reasonable
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Mar 14, 2024 23:23
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[Scythian outrider ripping a huge toke over the brazier] I love capitalism
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Mar 14, 2024 23:30
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what would it look like if a fed asset got lazy and used their main account to try to produce a wedge issue
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Mar 14, 2024 23:32
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just to differentiate my own stance here. The whole reason for the temperance movement was because people realized that alcohol was a social poison, mostly affecting the working class, that was preventing them from organizing against the cause of their problems. Capitalism was causing misery, alcohol was used to alleviate the symptoms but made things much worse. People have this idea that temperance organizers were stuck up, scolding schoolmarms. So, for example if you think about Major Barbara or Sergeant Sarah Brown, two of the most iconic female characters in theatre of the era, both are members the Salvation Army, both are involved in temperance in the plots of their respective plays. The thing is, George Bernard Shaw and Frank Loesser made it very clear that those characters were right. The Demon Rum was ruining the lives of working class men, and women’s lib entailed turning down men who wouldn’t put down the bottle. I think we have this idea about prohibition that was a bad idea or, like I said, that it was scolding or based on social judgement: to paraphrase Shaw, middle-class morality. The reality is the drinking habits of the English-speaking world changed dramatically through the temperance movement, even before prohibition, and certainly after - and changed for the better. This didn’t take place in a vacuum, however, because temperance was part and parcel with as I said, women’s liberation, but also a variety of working class movements. Emma Goldstein was involved with the temperance movement, so was Helen Keller, and nearly every other important reformer of the era. Now, there’s two books I always suggest people read when the subject of temperance comes up: London Labour and the London Poor and People of the Abyss. Let me interject by saying that, unlike George Bernard Shaw, I don’t have a lot of nice things to say about Jack London. However, his writing about living among the working class, and poor of London at the turn of the century pretty definitively shows that alcohol was not a harmless vice. Alcohol was a critical part of the structure of oppression that affected all of the working class. There is a YouTuber based in LA who is doing a similar sort of thing right now, name escapes me, and just like Jack London I don’t necessarily like it. I think it’s gratuitous and how much time he spends interviewing sex workers, it’s a bit salacious, but I think the throughline there is that all of them grew up in circumstances where drugs and alcohol were a huge problem, and all of them now use drugs and alcohol to cope with the situation. Anecdotally, of course, whenever I talk to people, I know who come from lower socioeconomic stations - for example, enlisted soldiers, who were getting written up for disciplinary issues - not only did their issues, including several domestic incidents we had to deal with, stem from their own alcohol use, in their testimony at Charge Parades their families of origins were often blighted by liquor or drugs. Not for nothing do the National Defence Act and Queens Orders & Regulations include so many sections on alcohol in regards to discipline. So let’s tie it all together. I understand that upper middle-class professionals can indulge in drug use every now and then, and I understand that this definition applies to almost everybody in the conversation right now. However, the exact same thing was true of alcohol use among the same class during the last two centuries. Yes, upper middle-class professionals could indulge in a glass of port every now and then without incident. What we should be talking about is the real problem here - that people without the tools to cope with their conditions, the most immiserated people in our society, are the ones who are going to fall back on drug and alcohol use. We can see that every day with the opioid epidemic and fentanyl. Our model should be the same as leftist organizers in the late 1800s and first part of the 20th century - we should steadfastly promote temperance, while at the same time realizing that liberation from vice can only come through liberation from capitalism. This doesn’t make us prudish or unfun or stuck up - it’s an appropriate response to the real harm caused by vice in our society, a respite so we can fight the origin of those vices. if you want to use the vanguard model, you have to realize that in many countries, Italy and Russia in particular, socialist organizers essentially acted as secular monks. They practiced what they preached. We can’t talk about our own hedonistic pleasures, and our own individual wishes and desire for self actualization, or whatever, and use the same drugs and alcohol we know are poison to the people we want to liberate . We have to lead by example and put the bottle down too. DJJIB-DJDCT has issued a correction as of 23:40 on Mar 14, 2024 |
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Mar 14, 2024 23:33
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scary ghost dog posted:thats not what im saying. im saying that in a hypothetical communist world where none of the indoctrinations and influences of capitalism ever took root, recreational psychedelic drug use probably wouldnt exist, and might not even be fun. that is the specific point i am arguing. i do psychedelic drugs and have fun on a monthly basis and have for some years What if I wanted to stay up all night dancing to music op, how would I achieve that without drugs? *edit* noticed you wrote "psychedelic drugs", MDMA is a psychedelic drug and is my go-to drug for staying awake at raves etc
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Mar 14, 2024 23:36
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scary ghost dog posted:thats not what im saying. im saying that in a hypothetical communist world where none of the indoctrinations and influences of capitalism ever took root, recreational psychedelic drug use probably wouldnt exist, and might not even be fun. that is the specific point i am arguing. i do psychedelic drugs and have fun on a monthly basis and have for some years i think this is getting into utopian speculation and it is anti-dialectical to categorically dismiss epic drug benders
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Mar 14, 2024 23:40
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I suppose the critical question here is what is more important to you: staying up all night to party, or relieving poor families from a vice that leads to all sorts of emotional, physical and sexual abuse? Poverty is the cause of their substance abuse, there’s no mistaking that. However, that doesn’t mean that it’s not an important factor contributing to their misery. Social reform is important. Temperance is an important part of social reform. We can’t ask anyone to do anything that we wouldn’t do ourselves. So, if we want the working class to be relieved from the suffering caused by their drug and alcohol use, it stands to reason that we have to be willing to put aside drugs, and alcohol, even if we don’t think it’s a problem for us, because we realize it’s a problem for society.
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Mar 14, 2024 23:44
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:I suppose the critical question here is what is more important to you: staying up all night to party, or relieving poor families from a vice that leads to all sorts of emotional, physical and sexual abuse? im fine with banning alcohol but hard drugs should be available as part of regular healthcare if their use is appropriate
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Mar 14, 2024 23:45
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multistability posted:What if I wanted to stay up all night dancing to music op, how would I achieve that without drugs? interesting proposal, i hadnt considered ecstasy a psychedelic drug, but youre right. i imagine ecstasy would have been discovered at some point to be the ultimate ptsd treatment, and while ptsd certainly wouldnt be anywhere near as common it would still exist all over society. mdma would have to be easily accessible, and probably not criminalized in any fashion, and it would be well known how enjoyable it is. maybe everyone would have some kind of ecstasy ration that they could requisition, no questions asked. i wont speculate about communist raves
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Mar 14, 2024 23:47
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:just to differentiate my own stance here. The whole reason for the temperance movement was because people realized that alcohol was a social poison, mostly affecting the working class, that was preventing them from organizing against the cause of their problems. Capitalism was causing misery, alcohol was used to alleviate the symptoms but made things much worse. no
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Mar 14, 2024 23:48
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trying to imagine what the russian revolution would have looked like if anyone involved was sober
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Mar 14, 2024 23:48
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