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Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


Macdeo Lurjtux posted:

Well the set has a bonus sheet of legendaries so he could be including those too.

We know we're getting Olivia and Gonti in the commander decks, alongside the Lone Wolf and Shrub guy introduced in the fiction last week.

Oko's team is Tiny Bones and Vraska, plus four more, one of which looks like Kiora. One was thought to be Rakdos but he's likely still napping in Ravnica.

It is definitely Rakdos.

Jace is probably also in Oko's team tbh.

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plainswalker75
Feb 22, 2003

Pigs are smarter than Bears, but they can't ride motorcycles
Hair Elf
The Eldraine villain is probable Eriette, since she has a minor role in the story. Also Rakdos is there too and now he's best friends with Tiny-Bones

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

plainswalker75 posted:

The Eldraine villain is probable Eriette, since she has a minor role in the story. Also Rakdos is there too and now he's best friends with Tiny-Bones

Eriette's an... odd pick, I'm not entirely sure how you fit her into this whole vibe. Shady medicine woman, maybe? I might be thinking too simply.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.
https://x.com/fireshoes/status/1770236809949098032?s=46&t=6TcDRv5TsjsK9hYJMKVitA

Man, I guess that is one way to do it.

newershadow
May 18, 2014

Macdeo Lurjtux posted:

Well the set has a bonus sheet of legendaries so he could be including those too.

We know we're getting Olivia and Gonti in the commander decks, alongside the Lone Wolf and Shrub guy introduced in the fiction last week.

Oko's team is Tiny Bones and Vraska, plus four more, one of which looks like Kiora. One was thought to be Rakdos but he's likely still napping in Ravnica.

I don't believe this set has a bonus sheet of legendaries (going off the First Look) - there's one bonus sheet of crimes (breaking news), and the Big Score subset of mythic rares (in The List slot).

The main team in the promo art is: Oko, Kellan, Vraska, Tinybones, Rakdos, Annie Flash (new character). The people who have only showed up in the story so far are: Gisa and Geralf, Kaervek, Malcolm and Breeches, Satoru Umezawa, and Ashiok/Eriette.

Silhouette
Nov 16, 2002

SONIC BOOM!!!

Kaervek is alive?

Also I want to know what the gently caress happened to Amalia. She went through an omenpath with Kellan at the end of LCI, presumably to Ravnica, and then was never mentioned again.

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



The differences in different colors dealing with spells get really obvious in Brawl. Like, your opponent has a 7-mana Atraxa in the command zone, most of their deck is control stuff, so if this Atraxa resolves, you're probably losing, and if it stays in play you're definitely losing, but if you kill it, they can cast it again. You have already been board wiped twice this game.You are not playing blue, how can you stop that Atraxa from resolving?

-Green: can't, you lost.
-White : tax it to buy yourself a couple of turns. (they really should unban Dranith Magistrate. If your deck can't deal with a 1/3 creature you don't deserve to play your commander) Hope you have Elesh Norn or Hushbringer to turn off ETBs

-Red: maybe you have cards that punish them for playing all the cards Atraxa will draw them. Or you're aggressive enough that even after 2 board wipes, they're still pretty low on health. But if they untap with Atraxa you lose.

-Black: can't discard, since Atraxa isn't in their hand. Hopefully they'll tap out to play Atraxa and you can kill her and swing for lethal. But if they untap with Atraxa, you lose.

-Blue: counter it lol

It just seems like there should be more than 1 way to cleanly deal with powerful ETB abilites, especially since they're getting stronger AND more common. Discard only kind of helps, because most of it is sorcery speed, so can't deal with opponent top decking, and you also need to prevent them from reanimating it too, either by reanimating their creature yourself, or exiling their graveyard. White can at least do something to protect against them by taxing cards and preventing certain cards from being cast. They also have Silence effects that prevent the opponent from casting anything for a turn. It just seems like black or red should be able to do something about them, or at least punish them.

flatluigi
Apr 23, 2008

here come the planes

Silhouette posted:

Kaervek is alive?

Also I want to know what the gently caress happened to Amalia. She went through an omenpath with Kellan at the end of LCI, presumably to Ravnica, and then was never mentioned again.

maro answered this a bit back iirc, apparently the lci and mkm stories were written at the same time and Amalia going with Kellan was a thing added by the writer for the former that wasn't communicated to the latter

Salvor_Hardin
Sep 13, 2005

I want to go protest.
Nap Ghost

HootTheOwl posted:

Every Color but green does.

Green gets stifle

Guttural Response

HootTheOwl
May 13, 2012

Hootin and shootin

Salvor_Hardin posted:

Guttural Response

Is red and doesn't target any spell.
I also excluded cards like Life Force for the same reason.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

A Moose posted:

The differences in different colors dealing with spells get really obvious in Brawl. Like, your opponent has a 7-mana Atraxa in the command zone, most of their deck is control stuff, so if this Atraxa resolves, you're probably losing, and if it stays in play you're definitely losing, but if you kill it, they can cast it again. You have already been board wiped twice this game.You are not playing blue, how can you stop that Atraxa from resolving?

-Green: can't, you lost.
-White : tax it to buy yourself a couple of turns. (they really should unban Dranith Magistrate. If your deck can't deal with a 1/3 creature you don't deserve to play your commander) Hope you have Elesh Norn or Hushbringer to turn off ETBs

-Red: maybe you have cards that punish them for playing all the cards Atraxa will draw them. Or you're aggressive enough that even after 2 board wipes, they're still pretty low on health. But if they untap with Atraxa you lose.

-Black: can't discard, since Atraxa isn't in their hand. Hopefully they'll tap out to play Atraxa and you can kill her and swing for lethal. But if they untap with Atraxa, you lose.

-Blue: counter it lol

It just seems like there should be more than 1 way to cleanly deal with powerful ETB abilites, especially since they're getting stronger AND more common. Discard only kind of helps, because most of it is sorcery speed, so can't deal with opponent top decking, and you also need to prevent them from reanimating it too, either by reanimating their creature yourself, or exiling their graveyard. White can at least do something to protect against them by taxing cards and preventing certain cards from being cast. They also have Silence effects that prevent the opponent from casting anything for a turn. It just seems like black or red should be able to do something about them, or at least punish them.

Resolving a seven mana spell should generally make you favoured to win

Jabor
Jul 16, 2010

#1 Loser at SpaceChem

MrL_JaKiri posted:

Resolving a seven mana spell should generally make you favoured to win

this is probably true for the formats you play, but it's not true for every format, and it's a bit rude to tell enjoyers of a format that you've never played how their format "should" play out

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Jabor posted:

this is probably true for the formats you play, but it's not true for every format, and it's a bit rude to tell enjoyers of a format that you've never played how their format "should" play out

You're right, it was. Sorry A Moose.

Having said that, Brawl is just not a balanced format. Occasionally you just get hard countered by an opponent even more than in most 60 card formats. Fortunately it's not ranked, so hit that concede button!

Fritzler
Sep 5, 2007


That is wild. You are also required to have at least 8 players, so it is the exact minimum number. I am already qualed but going to play some more at PAX East this weekend I think. I don't think there will be that many people playing standard at PAX East, but would love it if there a lot.

Mat Cauthon
Jan 2, 2006

The more tragic things get,
the more I feel like laughing.



Silhouette posted:

Kaervek is alive?

Did he ever get killed off in the canon storyline? IIRC they just shoved him back into the amber prison after all the Time Spiral stuff but then again the tracking on any of the Jamurra related stories has always been inconsistent.

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

What did you say the strategy was?

Is that going to be 1 dude showing up and the other 7 spots filled with placeholder names

fadam
Apr 23, 2008

A Moose posted:

The differences in different colors dealing with spells get really obvious in Brawl. Like, your opponent has a 7-mana Atraxa in the command zone, most of their deck is control stuff, so if this Atraxa resolves, you're probably losing, and if it stays in play you're definitely losing, but if you kill it, they can cast it again. You have already been board wiped twice this game.You are not playing blue, how can you stop that Atraxa from resolving?

-Green: can't, you lost.
-White : tax it to buy yourself a couple of turns. (they really should unban Dranith Magistrate. If your deck can't deal with a 1/3 creature you don't deserve to play your commander) Hope you have Elesh Norn or Hushbringer to turn off ETBs

-Red: maybe you have cards that punish them for playing all the cards Atraxa will draw them. Or you're aggressive enough that even after 2 board wipes, they're still pretty low on health. But if they untap with Atraxa you lose.

-Black: can't discard, since Atraxa isn't in their hand. Hopefully they'll tap out to play Atraxa and you can kill her and swing for lethal. But if they untap with Atraxa, you lose.

-Blue: counter it lol

It just seems like there should be more than 1 way to cleanly deal with powerful ETB abilites, especially since they're getting stronger AND more common. Discard only kind of helps, because most of it is sorcery speed, so can't deal with opponent top decking, and you also need to prevent them from reanimating it too, either by reanimating their creature yourself, or exiling their graveyard. White can at least do something to protect against them by taxing cards and preventing certain cards from being cast. They also have Silence effects that prevent the opponent from casting anything for a turn. It just seems like black or red should be able to do something about them, or at least punish them.

The fact that stopping things on the stack is so important and there's one colour that's really good at it reactively (Blue), one colour that's medium at it proactively (White), and a bunch of colours that are kind of bad at it (Black can technically Thoughtseize the card out, but obviously that's not always good enough) is bad, but IDK if there's a good solution. All colours definitely shouldn't be good at dealing with all things I guess, but idk if it's good that you're heavily incentivized to run Blue in EDH because it's not only the best protection for your own win attempts, but also the best colour at stopping other win attempts.

fadam fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Mar 20, 2024

Jiro
Jan 13, 2004

A Moose posted:

The differences in different colors dealing with spells get really obvious in Brawl. Like, your opponent has a 7-mana Atraxa in the command zone, most of their deck is control stuff, so if this Atraxa resolves, you're probably losing, and if it stays in play you're definitely losing, but if you kill it, they can cast it again. You have already been board wiped twice this game.You are not playing blue, how can you stop that Atraxa from resolving?

-Green: can't, you lost.
-White : tax it to buy yourself a couple of turns. (they really should unban Dranith Magistrate. If your deck can't deal with a 1/3 creature you don't deserve to play your commander) Hope you have Elesh Norn or Hushbringer to turn off ETBs

-Red: maybe you have cards that punish them for playing all the cards Atraxa will draw them. Or you're aggressive enough that even after 2 board wipes, they're still pretty low on health. But if they untap with Atraxa you lose.

-Black: can't discard, since Atraxa isn't in their hand. Hopefully they'll tap out to play Atraxa and you can kill her and swing for lethal. But if they untap with Atraxa, you lose.

-Blue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VjFBIfSjoA

It just seems like there should be more than 1 way to cleanly deal with powerful ETB abilites, especially since they're getting stronger AND more common. Discard only kind of helps, because most of it is sorcery speed, so can't deal with opponent top decking, and you also need to prevent them from reanimating it too, either by reanimating their creature yourself, or exiling their graveyard. White can at least do something to protect against them by taxing cards and preventing certain cards from being cast. They also have Silence effects that prevent the opponent from casting anything for a turn. It just seems like black or red should be able to do something about them, or at least punish them.

Fixed

kung fu jive
Jul 2, 2014

SOPHISTICATED DOG SHIT

MrL_JaKiri posted:

You're right, it was. Sorry A Moose.

Having said that, Brawl is just not a balanced format. Occasionally you just get hard countered by an opponent even more than in most 60 card formats. Fortunately it's not ranked, so hit that concede button!

7 mana is the general win condition mana value in commander, even among battlecruiser type players. You weren’t wrong. This is why Farewell costs 6.

A Moose posted:

The differences in different colors dealing with spells get really obvious in Brawl. Like, your opponent has a 7-mana Atraxa in the command zone, most of their deck is control stuff, so if this Atraxa resolves, you're probably losing, and if it stays in play you're definitely losing, but if you kill it, they can cast it again. You have already been board wiped twice this game.You are not playing blue, how can you stop that Atraxa from resolving?

-Green: can't, you lost.
-White : tax it to buy yourself a couple of turns. (they really should unban Dranith Magistrate. If your deck can't deal with a 1/3 creature you don't deserve to play your commander) Hope you have Elesh Norn or Hushbringer to turn off ETBs

-Red: maybe you have cards that punish them for playing all the cards Atraxa will draw them. Or you're aggressive enough that even after 2 board wipes, they're still pretty low on health. But if they untap with Atraxa you lose.

-Black: can't discard, since Atraxa isn't in their hand. Hopefully they'll tap out to play Atraxa and you can kill her and swing for lethal. But if they untap with Atraxa, you lose.

-Blue: counter it lol

It just seems like there should be more than 1 way to cleanly deal with powerful ETB abilites, especially since they're getting stronger AND more common. Discard only kind of helps, because most of it is sorcery speed, so can't deal with opponent top decking, and you also need to prevent them from reanimating it too, either by reanimating their creature yourself, or exiling their graveyard. White can at least do something to protect against them by taxing cards and preventing certain cards from being cast. They also have Silence effects that prevent the opponent from casting anything for a turn. It just seems like black or red should be able to do something about them, or at least punish them.

Color identity is a fundamental part of the game. Colors should not have access to the same tools or the same ease of ability to deal with situations as other colors. Blue can counter or stifle Atraxa but it can’t easily destroy the creature once it hits the board, whereas Black can Terror effect destroy the creature. Each color has defined weaknesses and it should be that way. If you start introducing too much overlap and remove color identity this game would become a dull turd.

With that said, blue is busted and the Island is the most powerful card in the game if you play well.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

flatluigi posted:

maro answered this a bit back iirc, apparently the lci and mkm stories were written at the same time and Amalia going with Kellan was a thing added by the writer for the former that wasn't communicated to the latter

I was initially excited because I thought that could mean she's the Ixalan villain, but on checking I realized she's not actually a villain at all, I just assumed she was because of... y'know, being a vampire partially in black whose card basically revolves around committing mass murder.

According to the MtG fandom wiki she's off studying in Ravnica during Thunder Junction, but they don't actually cite that, and I have no idea how much stock people generally put in the MtG wiki being right in that situation.

Cleretic fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Mar 20, 2024

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



Ok, maybe picking Atraxa was a bad example because 7 mana bomb. But I think more than 1.5 colors should be able to deal with ETBs. Give another color a way to deal with your opponent's evoke elemental, prime time, bowmasters, Imodane's Recruiter etc. creatures with ETBs are a spell and creature combined in 1 card, so any playable ones have built in card advantage.

Like, give black a Stifle that only targets creatures or something. It doesn't even have to remove the body, you can still let them have that! After all, you can kill a creature so they lose the body but still get the effect. It just seems weird that dealing with an ability that all colors get is restricted to 1 color. It's like if black was the only color that got ANY removal. No green fight spells, no swords to plowshares, no bolts, no pongify (side note why does blue need Beast Within) or anything. Only doom blade.

fadam
Apr 23, 2008

Ignoring gameplay implications, would the anything involving the engine break if they changed it so a permanent's ETB was countered if the permanent was no longer on the battlefield at time of resolution?

HootTheOwl
May 13, 2012

Hootin and shootin

fadam posted:

Ignoring gameplay implications, would the anything involving the engine break if they changed it so a permanent's ETB was countered if the permanent was no longer on the battlefield at time of resolution?

"Removing the source of an ability does not counter the ability" is the answer to nearly every judge question involving a newer player.

fadam
Apr 23, 2008

HootTheOwl posted:

"Removing the source of an ability does not counter the ability" is the answer to nearly every judge question involving a newer player.

Sure, but I'm asking you to imagine a world where that wasn't the case. FWIW I'm certain it'd be toxic and the game would be a lot worse to play, just curious if there's anything mechanically that wouldn't work right.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

fadam posted:

Sure, but I'm asking you to imagine a world where that wasn't the case. FWIW I'm certain it'd be toxic and the game would be a lot worse to play, just curious if there's anything mechanically that wouldn't work right.

There's plenty of cards which sac or exile themselves as costs, including ETBs like the New Capenna lands

MrL_JaKiri fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Mar 20, 2024

HootTheOwl
May 13, 2012

Hootin and shootin

fadam posted:

Sure, but I'm asking you to imagine a world where that wasn't the case. FWIW I'm certain it'd be toxic and the game would be a lot worse to play, just curious if there's anything mechanically that wouldn't work right.

I think I get what you're asking, and the only things that come to mind are cards with negative triggers, Exploit triggers, and cards with the ability to sacrifice themselves for an ability (mog fanatic, for example)

flatluigi
Apr 23, 2008

here come the planes
it'd be a fundamentally different game when every instant speed removal is a counterspell

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006

fadam posted:

The fact that stopping things on the stack is so important and there's one colour that's really good at it reactively (Blue), one colour that's medium at it proactively (White), and a bunch of colours that are kind of bad at it (Black can technically Thoughtseize the card out, but obviously that's not always good enough) is bad, but IDK if there's a good solution. All colours definitely shouldn't be good at dealing with all things I guess, but idk if it's good that you're heavily incentivized to run Blue in EDH because it's not only the best protection for your own win attempts, but also the best colour at stopping other win attempts.

let red bolt the stack

I burn your 0CMC spell for 3. It deals 3 excess damage to you.

kung fu jive posted:

7 mana is the general win condition mana value in commander, even among battlecruiser type players. You weren’t wrong. This is why Farewell costs 6.

Color identity is a fundamental part of the game. Colors should not have access to the same tools or the same ease of ability to deal with situations as other colors. Blue can counter or stifle Atraxa but it can’t easily destroy the creature once it hits the board, whereas Black can Terror effect destroy the creature. Each color has defined weaknesses and it should be that way. If you start introducing too much overlap and remove color identity this game would become a dull turd.

With that said, blue is busted and the Island is the most powerful card in the game if you play well.

Blue has several cards that can directly destroy. It even has a couple of board wipes. They give your opponent something in return, but something weaker.

Sure black and white can pick and choose the best ones ever printed, but blue has as many as the other colors would typically run in a deck in those formats so it can actually be about even in that regard.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

ilmucche posted:

Is that going to be 1 dude showing up and the other 7 spots filled with placeholder names

Being it’s also single elimination and 10 dollar entry , capped at 8….. someone just paid 80 bucks for an invite and called it a day. I assume it was posted at all because it’s required by wotc able spice rack caught it.

fadam
Apr 23, 2008

Aphrodite posted:

let red bolt the stack

I burn your 0CMC spell for 3. It deals 3 excess damage to you.

Blue has several cards that can directly destroy. It even has a couple of board wipes. They give your opponent something in return, but something weaker.

Sure black and white can pick and choose the best ones ever printed, but blue has as many as the other colors would typically run in a deck in those formats so it can actually be about even in that regard.

In super high power EDH games Chain of Vapor being able to hit anything for so cheap, plus all the super efficient stuff like the Blue March and Cyclonic Rift make it one of the better removal colours imo. I don't really care if you can technically recast that Rule of Law on your turn if I'm winning now.

Vando
Oct 26, 2007

stoats about

fadam posted:

Sure, but I'm asking you to imagine a world where that wasn't the case. FWIW I'm certain it'd be toxic and the game would be a lot worse to play, just curious if there's anything mechanically that wouldn't work right.

This world is pretty much 'all of Magic before 2001 or so'.

LifeLynx
Feb 27, 2001

Dang so this is like looking over his shoulder in real-time
Grimey Drawer

I know the owner of this place, but I don't talk to him often enough to feel like asking him WTF. I wonder if WotC is going to shut this poo poo down or they'll ignore it.

Lottery of Babylon
Apr 25, 2012

STRAIGHT TROPIN'

Aphrodite posted:

let red bolt the stack

Preemptive Bolt
R
Instant
Counter target creature spell with toughness 3 or less.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

LifeLynx posted:

I know the owner of this place, but I don't talk to him often enough to feel like asking him WTF. I wonder if WotC is going to shut this poo poo down or they'll ignore it.

With just the way its formatted, it seems like something they didn't mean to get out. There wasn't any advertisements for it right?

Weird Pumpkin
Oct 7, 2007

Aphrodite posted:

let red bolt the stack

I burn your 0CMC spell for 3. It deals 3 excess damage to you.

Give spells toughness on the stack based on their CMC, and excess damage automatically tramples :hmmyes:

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

What did you say the strategy was?

LifeLynx posted:

I know the owner of this place, but I don't talk to him often enough to feel like asking him WTF. I wonder if WotC is going to shut this poo poo down or they'll ignore it.

Why would they shut it down? It's an event open to anyone who registers ! Claim your spot now (and take a day off work to do it!)

A Moose posted:

Ok, maybe picking Atraxa was a bad example because 7 mana bomb. But I think more than 1.5 colors should be able to deal with ETBs. Give another color a way to deal with your opponent's evoke elemental, prime time, bowmasters, Imodane's Recruiter etc. creatures with ETBs are a spell and creature combined in 1 card, so any playable ones have built in card advantage.

Like, give black a Stifle that only targets creatures or something. It doesn't even have to remove the body, you can still let them have that! After all, you can kill a creature so they lose the body but still get the effect. It just seems weird that dealing with an ability that all colors get is restricted to 1 color. It's like if black was the only color that got ANY removal. No green fight spells, no swords to plowshares, no bolts, no pongify (side note why does blue need Beast Within) or anything. Only doom blade.

Torpor orb?

Johnny Truant
Jul 22, 2008




is there an MtGO thread? i have Real Basic Dumb questions about it

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

What did you say the strategy was?

Johnny Truant posted:

is there an MtGO thread? i have Real Basic Dumb questions about it

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3979741

Johnny Truant
Jul 22, 2008





lol, dope!

i watched an mtggoldfish youtube about MtGO idly and i guess since i have booted it up all of one time, didn't realize how easy it was to just like, rent a deck, which is dope! my quick dumb questions are - can you still win stuff normally with a rented deck? are there limitations to playing in certain events/leagues/drafts or anything like that with a rented deck?

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A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



ilmucche posted:

Why would they shut it down? It's an event open to anyone who registers ! Claim your spot now (and take a day off work to do it!)

Torpor orb?

Yeah more of that. Like, people aren't playing it much, but at least it exists as a possible safety valve. I just wish it was on Arena. Maybe even a single target version of it. I'm just saying, give black or red a stifle but for creatures.

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