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I don't care about extraction looters normally but 'some sort of PvPvE thing with Bungie shooting' is something I'd be possibly interested in. Except I don't think the devs even know if that's what it is yet.
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Mar 20, 2024 18:02
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DLC Inc posted:I actually don’t know why so many companies want to do GaaS when you can look at how miserable Destiny 2 upkeep probably was and still is. Recurring revenue looks a lot better on shareholder reports than "trust us, we have a banger in the pipeline that will come out in a couple years." Panderfringe posted:I think the GaaS model just has a limit to how long it can reasonably go and Destiny has run into it. We'll see if Bungie can make changes to keep it fresh, but I doubt it. I think the "looter" aspect of "GaaS looter-shooter" runs into particular issues when you're reaching the end of the game's lifetime, as the future value of the guns you're grinding for falls off of a cliff. Why spend hundreds of hours grinding for god rolls when there's not going to be any future content to use it in? Once you've done the final campaign and final raid, what are you going to actually keep playing for? And if you're just going to do the campaign and raid, is that worth the now-elevated price point for the expansion? That's on top of franchise exhaustion.
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Mar 20, 2024 18:07
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I feel like Destiny 2 is among very few interesting service games. It's basically a lite-MMO. It's absolutely not without issue, but there's a part of me that enjoys having a bundle of content come out every few months, then logging in weekly for a dose of story, and playing a dungeon/raid here and there. Pretty much everything else labeled as a service game is just some boring rear end Battle Royale or PVP game whose content updates are usually "we added some new outfits" or "Thanos is here to punch your rear end in a top hat for a limited time" or the miserable attempts from games that have no business being service games tacking on cosmetic shops and then flopping before they put out any meaningful content. To me, it practically feels like Destiny 2 has the MMO pricing model, you just pay for the content updates rather then a monthly sub that'd you otherwise need to access the content. Is it really just that much less lucrative?
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Mar 20, 2024 18:18
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neutral milf hotel posted:I'm the only person in this thread that happily bought the TFS preorder and am looking forward to how this story ends. I pre-ordered it. Tessalation kinda sucks.
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Mar 20, 2024 18:24
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Paracelsus posted:I think the "looter" aspect of "GaaS looter-shooter" runs into particular issues when you're reaching the end of the game's lifetime, as the future value of the guns you're grinding for falls off of a cliff. Why spend hundreds of hours grinding for god rolls when there's not going to be any future content to use it in? Once you've done the final campaign and final raid, what are you going to actually keep playing for? And if you're just going to do the campaign and raid, is that worth the now-elevated price point for the expansion? That's on top of franchise exhaustion. That's why wrecking Crucible, then ignoring it and then removing half the maps was so disastrous imo. PvP was doing a lot of heavy lifting and that error really cost them at the end of the day, I think. I also have a personal bias though since I would primarily fire up Destiny to play PvP. Junkenstein posted:I don't care about extraction looters normally but 'some sort of PvPvE thing with Bungie shooting' is something I'd be possibly interested in. Gambit?
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Mar 20, 2024 18:33
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I would have pre-ordered but we have no idea what episodes are and they haven’t told us anything about it yet. So I don’t feel comfortable paying for something that could really fleece us depending on how it is.
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Mar 20, 2024 18:34
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for Destiny to continue Bungie needs to ditch D2 and create a D3 in like Unreal5 give people things you can’t do with the Tiger Engine 12 v 12 PVP 12 man raids Clan Housing / Social areas etc etc etc
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Mar 20, 2024 18:51
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These all sound nice but moving to a new engine / remaking everything is a huge cost in terms of both money and time, which Bungie doesn’t seem to have right now
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Mar 20, 2024 18:53
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kurona_bright posted:These all sound nice but moving to a new engine / remaking everything is a huge cost in terms of both money and time, which Bungie doesn’t seem to have right now This is true. Their action platformer match 3 game Marathon is going to soak up a lot of their resources and time  .
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Mar 20, 2024 18:57
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Tiger is probably capable of all those things, they just can't or won't invest resources in them. There are environments with persistent player-driven state changes, like how every expansion since Shadowkeep has had a side room where stuff you collect piles up and stays there. There was a period a couple of years ago where you could exploit a network sync bug to put 12 players into a raid, and it actually worked almost all of the time, much to everyone including Bungie's surprise
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Mar 20, 2024 18:59
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if only they'd tighten up the graphics on level 3, then all of the problems would be solved
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Mar 20, 2024 19:01
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SUNKOS posted:That's why wrecking Crucible, then ignoring it and then removing half the maps was so disastrous imo. PvP was doing a lot of heavy lifting and that error really cost them at the end of the day, I think. I also have a personal bias though since I would primarily fire up Destiny to play PvP. Yeah, your right but in reply to what he said as well. The game isn't ending. We don't know what form it will take, but there will be new raids and modes and everything the both of you are lamenting going away. Am I missing something?
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Mar 20, 2024 19:04
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Oxyclean posted:if only they'd tighten up the graphics on level 3, then all of the problems would be solved 
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Mar 20, 2024 19:06
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DLC Inc posted:I feel bad for Destiny because from the very beginning, it was clear the devs had no idea how to actually make a live service game with the amount of backpedaling and currency revisions that occurred yearly. Destiny is an incredible premise that works despite it's management team, not because of them. There have been so many decisions in this game that have been outright baffling over its lifespan. DLC Inc posted:Which is a shame because things like Strikes and the older bugger pvp stuff was pretty fun.
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Mar 20, 2024 19:09
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it's weird how people talk about bungie like they are incompetent but they are one of the few studios who have actually managed to make a successful live service game, especially being console focused and mostly single player
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Mar 20, 2024 19:41
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also people forget that maybe part of the reason destiny has succeeded is because bungie is willing to try counterintuitive things and doesn't just make the most obvious version of what destiny could be I'm not saying they've always been right but it's not like what destiny should be is a super obvious thing that anyone could figure out
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Mar 20, 2024 19:44
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If anyone remembers how the game was during year 1, after beating the Red War campaign, there was basically no endgame. You could run a few strikes, try to get good at PvP, or do the Leviathan raid, and that was it. If you wanted more you had to wait for Osiris to be released. It didn't really feel like they designed it from the ground up to be full GaaS. They just sorta lurched their way there through the patches and expansions until they figured out their current seasonal content + yearly expansion model.
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Mar 20, 2024 20:52
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Marathon is gunna be apex lmao also i am less interested in Marathon now bc of the hero situation. seems lovely, let me have a PC
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Mar 20, 2024 20:56
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Bungie will be the first to admit that they prioritize 'movement' over 'moving in the right direction' To an extent I think they're right. If D2Y1 had offered random roll weapons, 6v6 PvP and Trials of Osiris, the grey hairs and cracks would've started appearing a couple years sooner Nothing about D2y1 was GOOD, but there were benefits to their willingness to throw everything out and try an entirely new gameplay experience
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Mar 20, 2024 20:57
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D2Y1 was so staggeringly bad that I’m honestly surprised it survived. It had nothing to do and the only content was in the eververse shop. So not all that different but at least they add non-eververse content from time-to-time.
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Mar 20, 2024 21:01
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A lot of D2Y1 surviving is honestly because it came earlier in the GaaS trend and people were more forgiving of weak launches with the expectation of greatness to come. Another example of this is how Payday 3 launched in a not great state but in a better one than Payday 2 did, but it’s currently floundering so hard it may tank the entire company. I think if Destiny 3 launched hypothetically right now and it was as barebones as D2 or 1 were at launch Bungie would be donezo. People also don’t like to think about the fact that D1 had an even worse launch than D2.
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Mar 20, 2024 22:28
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I also think that if you seriously believe corporate takeovers could ever potentially lead to better games or happier employees then I have a bridge to sell you.
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Mar 20, 2024 22:28
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Pirate Jet posted:I also think that if you seriously believe corporate takeovers could ever potentially lead to better games or happier employees then I have a bridge to sell you. It worked great for Westwood Studios!
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Mar 20, 2024 22:31
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Insanely funny that Bungie chose, voluntarily, to sell themselves back to another corporate master
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Mar 20, 2024 22:32
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Insanely funny that Bungie chose, voluntarily, to sell themselves back to another corporate master They had successfully danced out of it twice already but, uh, I don't see them pulling off the hat trick.
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Mar 20, 2024 22:39
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I was extremely into Destiny and Destiny 2 all the way up to probably Beyond Light, which is where they started to lose me. Probably due to sunsetting, I dunno. I remember when I played that post-Forsaken they really seemed to start huffing their own farts and making blunder after blunder. I still bought every xpac after Beyond Light but Lightfall's aesthetic and story looked absolutely shite so stopped there. It seems like they've never been so far from what the game set out to do from Destyin 1 onward. What went so bad with Lightfall in terms of actual gameplay to the point that people think Bungie is doomed?
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Mar 20, 2024 22:39
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Insanely funny that Bungie chose, voluntarily, to sell themselves back to another corporate master It's because they convinced themselves that it was the Corporate Masters that were causing all of their problems, then realized that, no, the Corporate Masters were the only reason they were able to stay afloat. Hard to argue with budgets!
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Mar 20, 2024 22:53
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Pirate Jet posted:I also think that if you seriously believe corporate takeovers could ever potentially lead to better games or happier employees then I have a bridge to sell you. I think it's more that at this point it doesn't look like there will be much hope of a future for Destiny with Bungie management, so it's not like it could get worse. Like Sony takes over and what, fires everyone, shuts down the studio? What Bungie was almost certainly going to do anyway? People hear devs wanting to improve the game, but all the money it makes definitely doesn't go back into the game, just black hole projects. So it isn't that it will be better for sure, it's just community consensus and perception is it can't get worse.
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Mar 21, 2024 00:32
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Kith posted:It's because they convinced themselves that it was the Corporate Masters that were causing all of their problems, then realized that, no, the Corporate Masters were the only reason they were able to stay afloat. Hard to argue with budgets! Destiny 2 was on a hot streak where every expansion was outselling the last one until TFS had to bear the consequences of Lightfall. It really is all on Lightfall's shoulders as to why this game is tanking right now. They absolutely could have survived independently if they hadn't shipped an expansion that cratered the fanbase like Lightfall did and that didn't happen until they had been owned by Sony for more than a year. syntaxfunction posted:I think it's more that at this point it doesn't look like there will be much hope of a future for Destiny with Bungie management, so it's not like it could get worse. Like Sony takes over and what, fires everyone, shuts down the studio? What Bungie was almost certainly going to do anyway? What would happen is that Sony would absorb the staff, lay off a significant portion of them because they're now redundant under Sony's structure (yes even more so than they just did,) and now they own the Destiny and Marathon IPs as well as the ones of whatever else they're working on. Then they either release a Destiny 3 made by entirely different people or it gets thrown in the attic with Bloodborne never to be seen again. If you view it as "Destiny is going to die under Bungie anyways" then sure, but a corporate takeover means not even the people who made Destiny get to make Destiny anymore. It's an entirely self-serving thought process by gamers who only want to Consume Product and don't care about the humans who deliver it to them, so of course Aztecross's dumb rear end just announced a random email he got that's basically pro-takeover propaganda
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Mar 21, 2024 01:09
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Yeah, that is genuinely my take, is that if Bungie was left to itself on the same trajectory it has been on, with all the complaints internal and external, I would have serious doubts that the studio would survive after TFS unless it somehow completely righted the ship, did everything right, and returned players in droves, and again with the trajectory they were/are on I do not have that faith. I don't expect a Sony takeover to be nice or pleasant, but at this point it does look like "inevitable death by making GBS threads executives" or "possible salvaging by corporate takeover" and neither are nice to think about.
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Mar 21, 2024 02:17
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Sony gains nothing from shutting down Destiny. It fills a niche nothing else does. They would just be the Destiny studio again and maybe do something else if Destiny 3 does well.
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Mar 21, 2024 03:39
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They gain not spending the money it would take to run Destiny, which apparently is, A Real Lot. If Destiny is running well and people are engaged and enjoying it, yeah, it's a really unique, special game. I guess the question is just can you turn back the twin tides of burnout over a 10-year old game and fanbase negativity/apathy for the Lightfall era of the game and get it back to that point where people are spending money, whether you're the current set of Bungie execs, or whoever Sony would put in charge after a takeover. I really hope so. I plan to keep buyin' every content drop that comes out for this game, I'm playin' it 'til it's dead one way or the other.
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Mar 21, 2024 04:57
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BastardySkull posted:I was extremely into Destiny and Destiny 2 all the way up to probably Beyond Light, which is where they started to lose me. Probably due to sunsetting, I dunno. I remember when I played that post-Forsaken they really seemed to start huffing their own farts and making blunder after blunder. Beyond Light is where they lost me as well, that is hands-down the absolute worst fps campaign I have ever played and Crucible having such a huge chunk of maps being vaulted as well really soured me. I don't think I'm alone either? It looks like Beyond Light is actually the expansion that cratered the fanbase with Witch Queen & Lightfall performing very poorly in comparison, at least according to what they show here. The data isn't 100% reliable and goes off preorders which they can't fully track (and highlights other issues as well) but I would not at all be surprised if the real figures were quite similar given how damaging Beyond Light was when it launched. I bought Witch Queen & Lightfall despite that however, but I still haven't played them yet. I intend to because Witch Queen is apparently a return to form but Beyond Light is what stopped me playing the game. I'll start going through WQ & LF sometime soon since I'll be getting Final Shape just to see how it ends, but my expectations are pretty low. I think I heard that there will actually be some new Crucible maps though which will be nice after all these years.
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Mar 21, 2024 04:58
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MJeff posted:They gain not spending the money it would take to run Destiny, which apparently is, A Real Lot. I think the debate is, is it really an impossible amount if they somehow ran Destiny and then also used profits to fund other projects that got axed? I'd love to see internal numbers (lol we never will) but it makes you wonder how expensive Destiny would be to run by more competent people handling it. Like obviously GaaS cost money, servers, dev time, etc, but if it was such a large amount how did they waste so much more of their money into blackholes and executive pays? I'm here til the end, and my only real goal is to do all the raids and dungeons before the game turns off, however long that will be. I only get to play once in a while, so burn out is a whiiile away for me. It seems every time I log in there's new stuff to do honestly. The real trick to destiny is just don't log in often I guess  Edit: I liked Beyond Light, I feel like I'm a weirdo there. TWQ was absolute amazing tho, and Lightfall, well it existed. Shadowkeep was... I don't even know what it was really as far as a campaign goes. A few missions and a couple cutscenes and kind of just milling about the moon? But it was also legacy by the time I got to it.
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Mar 21, 2024 05:08
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SUNKOS posted:Beyond Light is where they lost me as well, that is hands-down the absolute worst fps campaign I have ever played and Crucible having such a huge chunk of maps being vaulted as well really soured me. I don't think I'm alone either? It looks like Beyond Light is actually the expansion that cratered the fanbase with Witch Queen & Lightfall performing very poorly in comparison, at least according to what they show here. The data isn't 100% reliable and goes off preorders which they can't fully track (and highlights other issues as well) but I would not at all be surprised if the real figures were quite similar given how damaging Beyond Light was when it launched. Pre-order emblems aren’t a reliable way to track actual pre-orders. The only solid sales figures we have are that Bungie themselves have stated that every expansion since Shadowkeep has outsold the last one, and they usually share when an expansion hits one million sales, which has come sooner and sooner each time. But really, the game needs more than just expansion sales to stay afloat, and the fact that Bungie is suddenly doing so poorly despite Lightfall being their best-selling expansion yet is because they aren’t getting continued monetization past the sales of the expansion. People aren’t buying things in Eververse, they’re not buying season passes, they’re not buying event cards, etcetera. If Lightfall was so successful but the company is suddenly doing so poorly the explanation seems pretty cut and dry - they launched an expansion so rear end that even IGN gave it a 5, and people weren’t interested in seeing what came after. I mean, I was there first hand. I was completely amped for Lightfall’s release, I jammed my way through the login queue trying to see what it had in store as soon as possible, and then I think my first two posts in this thread immediately following launch were “Nimbus is loving insufferable” and “I wish somebody would tell me what the loving Veil is!”
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Mar 21, 2024 06:26
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SUNKOS posted:I bought Witch Queen & Lightfall despite that however, but I still haven't played them yet. I intend to because Witch Queen is apparently a return to form but Beyond Light is what stopped me playing the game. I'll start going through WQ & LF sometime soon since I'll be getting Final Shape just to see how it ends, but my expectations are pretty low. I think I heard that there will actually be some new Crucible maps though which will be nice after all these years. I played a ton of D1, quit D2 around Red War/Trials and then came back a few months ago. I quite liked Beyond Light (but can see how people wouldn't), thought Witch Queen was a bit overrated but highly enjoyable (but had most of the gotcha moments in the story spoiled by the game itself) and then thought Lightfall was atrocious outside of strand, which is extremely fun. Lightfall just didn't fit into the Destiny universe to me; Neomuna seemed to be a really lazy Neo Tokyo attempt with none of the detail or world design Bungie usually excels at. Europa, by comparison, looks great. Nimbus was also extremely terrible and lame and bad and it seemed like Osiris just repeated the same three lines about the veil and paracausal energy and the radial mast and hurrying up.
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Mar 21, 2024 07:03
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The writing of lightfall had numerous flaws, but that’s the one that bothered me the most too. We learn of a thing called the veil, and that its central to neomuna, but that’s it until we are literally crawling on top and under it. And Osiris seems content with that alone, never really seeming to question neomuna’s characters about it or its relationship to strand in any meaningful way. Theres ways to write mysteries, that ain’t it.
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Mar 21, 2024 12:04
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Also we know the Veil is like the anti TravelOrb but doesn't seem to display sentience, and was also what the Black Heart copied but it opens up the TravelLog and blah blah blah I enjoy clicking heads but you really could just snip the plot of Light Fall out completely and it'd be fine, and the seasons we've had are really the most completely adjacent stuff. I enjoyed them all really, but we got Defiance which was just a side hustle saving civilians, Deep was a reminder that Sloane is pretty cool (and also Space Whale gods), Witch was Eris absolutely cockteasing the poo poo out of Xivu, and Wish has been a little nostalgia for Riven plus throwing in Ahamkara egg plot devices. I enjoyed the seasons as little romps, but they had nothing relevant to the larger plot that couldn't have been summarised in a sentence by someone realistically. And add Light Fall feeling so out of place and meandering in plot and it really does feel like the Witness has been politely waiting a year and a half for us while we twiddle our thumbs.
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Mar 21, 2024 12:21
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ctrl-f into the light ok then
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Mar 21, 2024 12:38
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victrix posted:ctrl-f into the light Onslaught looks fun! Edit: The mode I mean, but like the perk is great too.
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Mar 21, 2024 13:12
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