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Thanks! edit... Update Post at the bottom of the last page.
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Mar 21, 2024 02:01
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Cythereal posted:She's messing with a heavenly artifact given to Mendev by Iomedae herself, and she knows that Yua reacted weirdly to it before. I think if certain parties hadn't made Yua and company undetectable for Minagho, she would have wiped the floor with the party before Yua could have interacted with the stone. That's my theory at least. But a certain someone did meddle here, and Minagho would have no hope of stopping them even if did have an inkling that something like this was going on.
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Mar 21, 2024 02:02
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When I found out Galfry was romanceable it was like a flashback to the lovely writing from kingmaker, where the game falls all over itself to tell you how pretty and stunning Octavia and Val are and I elected to try and ignore her existence as best I could because even in that first interaction she comes off as incredibly stick up the rear end but trying to pretend she's not. Like watching a young republican try and dance.
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Mar 21, 2024 02:20
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Galfrey has a lot more going on for her than those two. I will say she is a believable character, or at least as believable as an over a hundred years old human with a mid-twenties body can be.
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Mar 21, 2024 02:31
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Aww Staunton. The fact that he has been atoning for 70 years also makes his situation pretty clear.
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Mar 21, 2024 02:40
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MonsterEnvy posted:Aww Staunton. The fact that he has been atoning for 70 years also makes his situation pretty clear. Yeah, Staunton (in the video game) had a pretty rough lot. Just because a few people came in at the end and were decent to him doesn't make up for the (human) lifetime of spite and cruelty he's been dealt.
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Mar 21, 2024 02:50
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You can tell poo poo is getting real when people start hearkening unto things.
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Mar 21, 2024 02:55
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Capfalcon posted:Yeah, Staunton (in the video game) had a pretty rough lot. Just because a few people came in at the end and were decent to him doesn't make up for the (human) lifetime of spite and cruelty he's been dealt. This isn't remotely Staunton's actual problem. Torrannor posted:Galfrey has a lot more going on for her than those two. I will say she is a believable character, or at least as believable as an over a hundred years old human with a mid-twenties body can be. The problems with Galfrey have absolutely nothing to do with her being a romanceable character. We're obviously not getting into it now, but suffice to say she's in the running for original AP characters shafted the most by Owlcat's writing - overall they did a great job with the AP adaptation, but there are a few notable exceptions and Galfrey's one of them.
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Mar 21, 2024 03:02
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Oh, Staunton. While I can understand his bitterness (five or six people showing him basic human decency does not do much compared to seventy years of being social outcast and serving in penal legion), he's walking, talking Stockholm syndrome going back to his abusive partner because he believes no one else will accept him. It's interesting that the only (I think) path that gives him (sort of) happy ending is the one nobody would expect. As for Mythic theme, one of the best signs game does power fantasy good is that you have your own boss theme.
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Mar 21, 2024 03:10
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Lord Koth posted:This isn't remotely Staunton's actual problem. I mean, being treated like poo poo for a very long time with no light at the end of the tunnel for regaining respect from the rank and file? He's got a comic shop of issues, to be sure, but it's like Cirno said. The reason demons get so many converts is that the crusade is more than happy to push people out of they fall short of the bar. And, well, if you're out, might as well go with someone who will at least pretend to like you.
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Mar 21, 2024 03:11
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My take on Staunton is that he's waiting for forgiveness from the one person who will never, ever give it to him: Staunton Vhane. I'll do a proper analysis of him when his arc concludes.
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Mar 21, 2024 03:13
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Basically it's sad example of "there are no therapists" trope - anyone expecting that victim of abusive relationship and seventy years of social abuse will suddenly be healed by one or two people showing them compassion should be prepared to be disappointed.
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Mar 21, 2024 03:20
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Well, Galfrey has put a lot of trust in us. Guess we better live up to it. I personally am a fan of her character also but will admit my first playthrough she ticked me off a bit. I look forward to her character analysis. Staunton's also.
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Mar 21, 2024 03:20
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Capfalcon posted:I mean, being treated like poo poo for a very long time with no light at the end of the tunnel for regaining respect from the rank and file? He's got a comic shop of issues, to be sure, but it's like Cirno said. The reason demons get so many converts is that the crusade is more than happy to push people out of they fall short of the bar. The problem with this analysis is that you're taking his word for it that no one in those 70 years has ever accepted him (and it's still a lie). Sure it's possible, and certainly the majority would have despised him, but there are almost always going to be exceptions - hell, there've been like 10 in the last few days/weeks, and while it's never truly touched upon there's definitely the implication that he's been working with Irabeth longer than just the current invasion (so no "it's just the current circumstances" excuse). It's still a lie because even if literally every single crusader in those 70 years had scorned him, he still had a supporter always with him - Joran. Basically, Cythereal posted:My take on Staunton is that he's waiting for forgiveness from the one person who will never, ever give it to him: Staunton Vhane. He will push the blame on every single outside circumstance he can think of, but the actual problem is that anyone who actually DOES show him compassion or forgiveness is ignored, because it doesn't fit into his mental model.
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Mar 21, 2024 03:26
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Yeah, I think Ember hit the nail on the head with what she said. Staunton didn't leave with Minahgo because of Stockholm Syndrome or anything, he first did what he did because he wanted to use the heroes to Suicide by Cop, and ultimately teleported away with her because he knows it will be miserable torment to be in the hands of demons, and that he deserves it.
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Mar 21, 2024 03:42
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JT Jag posted:Yeah, I think Ember hit the nail on the head with what she said. Staunton didn't leave with Minahgo because of Stockholm Syndrome or anything, he first did what he did because he wanted to use the heroes to Suicide by Cop, and ultimately teleported away with her because he knows it will be miserable torment to be in the hands of demons, and that he deserves it. This is my read on the situation as well. He was clearly trying to get killed here, but he'll take getting punished as a backup option if dying seems unlikely.
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Mar 21, 2024 04:01
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Oh yeah, master shapeshifter is the poo poo. The first playthrough I finished was a Scaled Fist Kitsune monk and it turns out that a Monk really likes the +6 to Dex between racial bonuses and master shapeshifter.
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Mar 21, 2024 07:19
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Does Nenio also get the buff from Master Shapeshifter as another obvious hint that she's a kitsune?
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Mar 21, 2024 07:21
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Mechanically speaking, Master Shapeshifter is potent to the point where you probably want it on every front liner, and possibly most of your ranged characters too, along with some means to unlock it on them, usually via alchemist (who can share their personal spells with others with an alchemist talent) or brown-fur transmuter arcanist (who can cast personal transmutation spells on others, have I mentioned that class is utterly insane yet?). Mythic powers, like feats themselves, run the gamut from character defining to...just sorta eh. I've mentioned before that animal companions can become neigh untouchable with defenses, and non-frontliners typically just need to five foot step away from stuff, so things that prevent opportunity attacks aren't the most ideal. Likewise, Ever Ready hits the problem of...mostly being a normal feat, and mythic powers are way more valuable then feats. On the other hand, Abundant Spellcasting is, so potent that you will get it and it's upgrades for every spellcaster eventually, it's only a question of when, cleaving shot is a must-have for ranged characters, and...well, I've already talked about the glories of Master Shapeshifter. I'll admit I'm surprised you didn't get Ascended Element for Ember - that's another character maker, for anyone who's going to be blasting. As for first level mythic ascension, none of them tend to be all that important. Demon is good for eventually giving you an extra natural attack, Aeon is good for giving you a strong dispel (and at higher difficulties, you're going to have some fights where you absolutely need to spend some time stripping away enemy buffs - hey, it's Baldur's Gate 2 all over again!), and Trickster is a great fall-back for anyone, with a mirror image variant to keep you alive, and a bonus to all your skills, because skills are always useful. Azata and Angel both suffer from giving you a power that's rarely better then other options to use your action on, and lich is just very specialized for liches only. But like, it's all fairly minor in the long run, even on harder difficulties. Narratively, yeah, Staunton doesn't want forgiveness from other people. He wants to suffer, because he ultimately feels he deserves it. He can't be "redeemed" because he doesn't think it's possible. He doesn't necessarily want to die, not yet, but he also doesn't think he could ever be a good person again. He won't be the only character who has truly given up on the very idea of "redemption," but not all of them fair quite so poorly as ol' Staunton does. Or they do, because you gently caress up, try to redeem them, and they in turn think you're full of poo poo, just like every other would-be "good guy" who ultimately only made their life worse! Nobody has hurt the Crusades more then the Crusades have. That's not to say the 70 years of everyone treating Staunton like poo poo has nothing to do with it, mind you; Staunton's problem is ultimately that the system around him has only ever reinforced his own negative beliefs about himself. A few good people won't change the fact that, according to the Crusades at large, Staunton is irredeemably evil, and the only reason the Queen let him live was so that he could die in battle and at least make his death useful. Galfrey's writing woes come down to literally a singular moment where the writers were stuck on how to connect two major plotlines, and making the queen kinda gently caress up was their best way to do it. I don't entirely blame them - she's been at this for five Crusades now, and it's entirely believable that hey, maybe you need five because she's actually not that good at this. Also, not to get too political about things, but an elder being who refuses to relinquish leadership to anyone younger, despite their failings? Yeah, that's not a hard one to believe. Areelu here is pretty great. It's your first look into the ideas that 1) Areelu's got bigger plans at work here then Deskari's would-be invasion, 2) those plans involve you, and 3) your memories aren't fully adding up. I'll say upfront that I'm a big fan of her character as written by Owlcat, and their revisions are a major step up from the tabletop version where she's...just kind of an evil wizard lady, and that's about it.
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Mar 21, 2024 07:44
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ProfessorCirno posted:
I see what you did there.
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Mar 21, 2024 07:48
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Lord Koth posted:The problem with this analysis is that you're taking his word for it that no one in those 70 years has ever accepted him (and it's still a lie). Sure it's possible, and certainly the majority would have despised him, but there are almost always going to be exceptions - hell, there've been like 10 in the last few days/weeks, and while it's never truly touched upon there's definitely the implication that he's been working with Irabeth longer than just the current invasion (so no "it's just the current circumstances" excuse). I don't really think we have much reason to believe that he's wrong that 99% of the Crusade treats him like poo poo, and the leadership lets it happen. Maybe Irabeth is nice to him but is she throwing people in the stocks for harassing him? Is she even kicking up a fuss about it? No, because it's just how things are. So while his problem broadly is that he won't forgive himself, it is specifically more: "He wants a glorious redemption where he fixes everything, and everyone (including himself) likes him again. And, unfortunately for both him and us, he's an NPC, not a PC, so he's just stuck on guard duty."
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Mar 21, 2024 08:14
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"oh no, guy we treated like poo poo for last seventy years finally snapped and joined demons, how could that happened"
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Mar 21, 2024 09:14
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Ascension And now we finally find ourselves at the end of Book 1. I have to admit, reading the LP and re-reading the AP, I'm surprised at how closely Owlcat stuck to the original work while adding their own spin to things. First though, the differences: in the original AP, the players aren't at the Garrison to save the broken Wardstone piece, they're there to destroy it before a certain someone in a killer red dress corrupts it completely (albeit from afar).  That does not look safe. When the PCs destroy it, things go 200% Michael Bay, and any remaining enemies are destroyed (though the PCs and their allies are miraculously unharmed). Indeed, the various Wardstones bordering the Worldwound also flare divine energies, utterly vapourizing the demonic hordes that have been besieging them and sending the survivors into a full-blown retreat. Still, the crusaders' joy is short-lived, as it seems that their greatest defences have just shorted out. But that's for later. Right now, the PCs are going through their own flashback sequence, though as their backstories have been well-established by the campaign traits they picked, this flashback sequence (which lasts 8 rounds) is less a dramatic revelation, and more a Cliff's Notes on the history of the Crusades, and plot hooks. After that, the BBEG pens a portal, monologues for a bit, and sends 6 babau demons to wreck the PCs.  You couldn't have used a slightly less goofy-looking picture for Book 1's climactic fight, Paizo? Now, even for 4-5th level characters, 6 babaus can cause some serious harm- but like Minagho, the BBEG didn't realize you got buffed: pre: Damage reduction 10/good Regeneration 5 (unholy damage or evil spells) Resist acid 10 and fire 10 Each PC glows with bright light that automatically dispels any 3rd-level or lower darkness effect they enter. Each PC's attacks are treated as good for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction Each PC deals +2d6 points of damage against creatures with the evil subtype. Once per round as an immediate action, a PC can roll 1d12 and add the result to any d20 roll he just made.   Those with the Chance Encounter campaign trait become Tricksters (who are quite different from Wrath's Tricksters) and gain +2 to Reflex saves. They can also expend one use of mythic power (a mechanic/resource that doesn't appear in Wrath) to take 20 on an Acrobatics, Bluff, Disguise, Sleight of Hand, or Stealth check without an increase in the time required to make the check. These bonuses aren't quite as good as those of the other mythics, but I think Paizo's Trickster is by far the most powerful Mythic Path, and don't really need the better benefits.   Children of the Crusade become Marshals, and gain +2 to Will saves. Whenever he successfully saves against a mind-affecting effect from a demon, as an immediate action the PC can expend one use of mythic power to cause the demon to become staggered for a number of rounds equal to the PC's mythic tier. The demon can reduce this effect to 1 round by making a successful Will save (DC = 10 + the PCs' mythic tier + the PC's Charisma modifier). I like the Will save bonus, and demonic saves aren't as ridiculous as Wrath's, so that second bonus is good too.   Those who were Exposed to Awfulness become Guardians, gaining +3 HP/level. When she is reduced to negative hit points by an attack or effect from a demon, as an immediate action the PC can expend one use of mythic power to heal damage equal to 2d6 + twice her mythic tier. This healing occurs after the damage is done-if the damage is enough to kill the PC, she cannot activate this ability. Completely mediocre bonuses here, to be honest.   Riftwarden Orphans become Archmagi, gaining a +4 trait bonus on caster level checks to penetrate a demon's spell resistance. Once per day, he can recharge a charged magic item by expending one use of mythic power. Doing so adds a number of charges equal to 1d10 + his mythic tier to the item, up to its normal maximum number of charges. Anyone whose played tabletop Pathfinder should be drooling at these traits, and if you're not into how fiddly the Trickster can get, this is an amazing path for your PC to take.   Sufferers of Stolen Fury become Champions, and gain +2 to Fort saves. By expending one use of mythic power as a swift action, she can ignore a single demon's damage reduction for i minute, and increases the critical multiplier of any weapon she wields against that demon by 1. Great early on, but drops off as the campaign goes on, unless the PC specializes in a high crit, high damage kind of weapon like dual-wielded dwarven waraxes or something- and even then, you might need to plan out your build in advance.   Finally, those who have been Touched by Divinity become Hierophants, and they can select a second domain granted by his af filiated deity. He can use the 1st-level spells of both domains as spell-like abilities a number of times per day each equal to his mythic tier. By expending one use of mythic power, he may use any of these two domains' spells as a spell-like ability, but may only use spells of a level equal to or less than his mythic tier. It's good, but not all that really; I'd buy the DM some extra pizza and have them houserule out the level restriction on domain spell levels once you reach Tier 3 or something.
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Mar 21, 2024 09:20
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I'm gonna stick my hand in the dark hole here and say that as good as Master Shapeshifter is, it's not all that great even for a frontliner; a +1 to Strength-related checks, and a +2 to AC and HP/level are useful, but I find abilities like Thundering Blows, Leading Strike and Unrelenting Assault work better as wrecking enemies, as opposed to 'I'll die a little slower, nice!'. A lot of people have spoken about Staunton, and I agree with all of it, so I'll just leave it at that. However, I will say that it's a vast improvement over his much flatter representation in the AP, which we'll get to later (indeed, in the AP he hasn't even appeared yet).
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Mar 21, 2024 09:21
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Quackles posted:I see what you did there.  CommissarMega posted:I'm gonna stick my hand in the dark hole here and say that as good as Master Shapeshifter is, it's not all that great even for a frontliner; a +1 to Strength-related checks, and a +2 to AC and HP/level are useful, but I find abilities like Thundering Blows, Leading Strike and Unrelenting Assault work better as wrecking enemies, as opposed to 'I'll die a little slower, nice!'. For a bard, I'll agree that they aren't as immediately useful as some others might be, but it's still worthwhile (especially since those bonuses are premanent for a kitsune), and for your given frontliner? +2 attack, +2-4 damage (which gets multiplied on crits), +2 HP/level, +2 AC, +2 fort saves, +2 reflex saves, and +2 to all strength and dex checks, and this stacks with everything. The damage is great and is boosted by crits; more important is the accuracy bonus, and far more important is the survivability that comes with it. And you get it all! Master Shapeshifter is the complete package. Especially this early on, all those boosts matter a whole lot; most of our party have, maybe, a +1 to one or two of those stats from items. Consider Yua's stats; not to go full loving math nerd on this, but it's increased Fortitude (a very important save!) by 2/3rds, and +10 HP is more then two full levels worth of extra HP. That's just from the Constitution bonus! Higher difficulties get dangerous, and it's not for nothing that every character gets Last Stand sooner or later in my games. I'll note, at this level, if you're using a two hander (like you should!), Master Shapeshifter actually outdamages all the feats you mentioned, and then gives that accuracy bonus AND all those defensive bonuses on top of that. This early on, there's no question - Master Shapeshifter is incredible. And because its bonuses stack with everything, it never gets bad. At max level, sure, Leading Strike and Unrelenting Assault will do more damage on average (Thundering Blows will not, it's utterly terrible and I dunno why you'd ever take something that does piddling damage and only activates on a miss). But, at those higher levels, they aren't going to add enough damage to matter too much, whereas Master Shapeshifter's accuracy and defensive boosts are still going to be going strong. And hell, it's +4 damage applies to every attack, and gets increased by crits! CommissarMega posted:Ascension The main thing that sticks out to me here is how none of these have any narrative connection at all. They don't really feel "mythic." Oh, you get a few nice numbers, but there's no comparing "defensive dude" vs "radiant angel from the Heavens" or "archmage" vs "chaotic good romantic hero from the wilds of Elysium, empowered by the Song of Freedom."
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Mar 21, 2024 10:27
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ProfessorCirno posted:I'll note, at this level, if you're using a two hander (like you should!), Master Shapeshifter actually outdamages all the feats you mentioned, and then gives that accuracy bonus AND all those defensive bonuses on top of that. This early on, there's no question - Master Shapeshifter is incredible. And because its bonuses stack with everything, it never gets bad. At max level, sure, Leading Strike and Unrelenting Assault will do more damage on average (Thundering Blows will not, it's utterly terrible and I dunno why you'd ever take something that does piddling damage and only activates on a miss). But, at those higher levels, they aren't going to add enough damage to matter too much, whereas Master Shapeshifter's accuracy and defensive boosts are still going to be going strong. And hell, it's +4 damage applies to every attack, and gets increased by crits! You know what, those are good points, and I had completely forgotten that Thundering Blows only activates on misses; I'd misremembered it as activating even on misses. I don't usually put much detailed thought into martial planning, as I usually focus on casters. You know, ~Real People~  ProfessorCirno posted:The main thing that sticks out to me here is how none of these have any narrative connection at all. They don't really feel "mythic." Oh, you get a few nice numbers, but there's no comparing "defensive dude" vs "radiant angel from the Heavens" or "archmage" vs "chaotic good romantic hero from the wilds of Elysium, empowered by the Song of Freedom." I think it's just a narrative thing; you're supposed to be able to apply the default Mythic Paths no matter where you are, and regardless of alignment- it's just as possible to have a Lawful Good trickster as a Chaotic Evil Guardian. Wrath's mythic paths have been mostly adapted to fit the Worldwound campaign, while I don't really see much place for an Angel in the Shackles (basically, YOHOHO Pirates for non PF nerds) unless it is to raze the place to the ground, nor do will a Demon be operating in Imperial Taldor's court. That said, they really should have done an Aeon exploring ancient Azlant to reboot to Pathfinder 2e, in my opinion 
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Mar 21, 2024 11:28
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+4 to all stats is 24 more stat points effectively, that is an absolutely insane number. It is also effectively a 10% boost to your rolls from baseline, thats a fantastic bonus to have for let me check... literally every roll.
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Mar 21, 2024 11:38
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AtomikKrab posted:+4 to all stats is 24 more stat points effectively, that is an absolutely insane number. It's only physical stats so just STR, DEX and CON.
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Mar 21, 2024 11:58
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While I understand on a mechanical level that Master Shapeshifting + Kitsune = Awesome, I just can't bring myself to use it myself... because damnit, I rolled up a Kitsune so I could be a Kitsune, not cosplay the entire game as a human. Also Cyth, I don't think you you mentioned what Mythic Feats you picked for each of your characters to go with the Mythic Ability they selected (Though to be fair, the Mythic Feats are a lot less flashy and attention grabbing)
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Mar 21, 2024 11:58
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Rorahusky posted:Also Cyth, I don't think you you mentioned what Mythic Feats you picked for each of your characters to go with the Mythic Ability they selected (Though to be fair, the Mythic Feats are a lot less flashy and attention grabbing) I didn't mention them because you don't get mythic feats at mythic 1. Just the PC's archetype and everyone's first mythic ability.
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Mar 21, 2024 12:10
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I will say that I'm surprised that you didn't take ascendant element for Ember, just not caring about elemental resistance is nice when you have to keep track of so many different kinds of demons and they seem to all have one resistance or another.
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Mar 21, 2024 12:13
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I am playing on Story difficulty and don't need to make mechanically optimal choices. I'm making an effort to point out some good ideas when I see them, that's all.
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Mar 21, 2024 12:18
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So Yua does all the hard work connecting to the glowy stone but everyone else on the party gets a piece of the mythic power cake too? Doesnt seem fair! Should we have unlocked the Lich path already and just ignored it or is it an act 2 path?
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Mar 21, 2024 12:56
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Kanthulhu posted:or is it an act 2 path? It's Act 2, and the last of the early game mythic paths to unlock.
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Mar 21, 2024 12:58
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Cythereal posted:I am playing on Story difficulty and don't need to make mechanically optimal choices. I'm making an effort to point out some good ideas when I see them, that's all. Huh, so demons DON'T get Electricity Immunity at Story? Dang, that's nice! Ascendant Element: Electricity is usually the third Mythic Ability I pick 'cos Chain Lighting is so darn good, especially with the Azata's Zippy Magic.
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Mar 21, 2024 13:03
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CommissarMega posted:Huh, so demons DON'T get Electricity Immunity at Story? Dang, that's nice! Ascendant Element: Electricity is usually the third Mythic Ability I pick 'cos Chain Lighting is so darn good, especially with the Azata's Zippy Magic. Sure they get electricity immunity on Story. Ember also has fire spells, and a crossbow. BisbyWorl posted:Does Nenio also get the buff from Master Shapeshifter as another obvious hint that she's a kitsune? For story reasons that we'll see, Nenio is currently unable to shapeshift and doesn't count as being shapeshifted. You can give her Master Shapeshifter, but it won't kick in until the game explicitly tells you in the story that she's a kitsune. Yua's human form can, for example, be turned off by dispel magic if she fails the check, forcing her back into fox form. Nenio is currently immune to that. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Mar 21, 2024 |
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Mar 21, 2024 13:07
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Cythereal posted:Yua's human form can, for example, be turned off by dispel magic if she fails the check, forcing her back into fox form. Nenio is currently immune to that. That is very amusing, especially in light of the reason she can't shape shift (which we will find out later, of course.)
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Mar 21, 2024 13:16
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Thanks for spoiling that that's a thing...Testekill posted:It's only physical stats so just STR, DEX and CON.
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Mar 21, 2024 13:25
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Cythereal posted:I didn't mention them because you don't get mythic feats at mythic 1. Just the PC's archetype and everyone's first mythic ability. Oh right. It's been so long since I played the game unmodded that I forgor.
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Mar 21, 2024 13:27
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Poil posted:Thanks for spoiling that that's a thing... I said that Nenio is a kitsune when we first met her and noted that for story reasons the game is currently acting like she's human but there's plenty of indications in the game about what she really is. Hell, she has Keen Senses openly listed on her character sheet as an ability, something humans pointedly don't get.
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Mar 21, 2024 13:28
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