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It's a pretty great move, given that they'll own future titles outright and be able to DLC, season pass, expansion, and sequel without being beholden to a company with a shaky history of video adaptation.
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Mar 22, 2024 01:55
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moths posted:It's a pretty great move, given that they'll own future titles outright and be able to DLC, season pass, expansion, and sequel without being beholden to a company with a shaky history of video adaptation. I agree with this. Way more interested in them doing something original or at least entirely divorced from WotC.
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Mar 22, 2024 01:56
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Bottom Liner posted:What? When has another studio ever made official expansions for a video game? Not counting things like Activision that has many different devs all working on the same stuff, obviously. Sierra made a Diablo expansion Also Larian already made independent games and they rule.
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Mar 22, 2024 01:59
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Bottom Liner posted:What? When has another studio ever made official expansions for a video game? Not counting things like Activision that has many different devs all working on the same stuff, obviously. Most of the Quake expansions were made by other developers.
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Mar 22, 2024 02:08
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Yeah, it was fairly common in the late 90s, early 2000s. Lots of strategy games had another company make an expansion, to mixed results.
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Mar 22, 2024 02:40
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GrandpaPants posted:So I guess I can play bg3 now instead of waiting for a definitive edition? They're still rolling out patches and hotfixes. If you still haven't played, might as well wait another year or so.
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Mar 22, 2024 02:59
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Bottom Liner posted:What? When has another studio ever made official expansions for a video game? Not counting things like Activision that has many different devs all working on the same stuff, obviously. Literally Balder's Gate. BG1 and BG2 were made by Bioware. A decade later the Enhanced Editions were made by Overhaul games. And then Beamdog did the Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear expansion pack.
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Mar 22, 2024 03:12
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3 Action Economist posted:Sierra made a Diablo expansion While my experience with Divinity was good and the games were good, they felt... generic? The fantasy dimension in a Phil Foglio GURPS multiverse? Baldurs Gate 3 felt like /DnD/, so I know they can ape a setting. I feel that Larian really benefitted by the constraints of a preexisting setting, even if it's kitchen sink forgotten realms. Bottom Liner posted:What? When has another studio ever made official expansions for a video game? Not counting things like Activision that has many different devs all working on the same stuff, obviously.    Unless  Edit: deleted KOTOR 2, whoops
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Mar 22, 2024 03:38
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Bottom Liner posted:What? When has another studio ever made official expansions for a video game? Not counting things like Activision that has many different devs all working on the same stuff, obviously. Happens all the time. Digital Extremes did the Multiplayer expansion for BioShock 2 for example.
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Mar 22, 2024 03:39
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piL posted:
No, not at all. I knew about Obsidian of course, but didn't consider that the same kinda thing. I just don't see a modern company with a game as big as BG3 (and the licensing deal therein) being willing or able to just let another studio make more content for it and couldn't think of any similar cases. Humbug Scoolbus posted:Happens all the time. Digital Extremes did the Multiplayer expansion for BioShock 2 for example. These kinda things I also wasn't considering since those are just farmed out to another studio for manpower reasons.
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Mar 22, 2024 03:42
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Bottom Liner posted:No, not at all. I knew about Obsidian of course, but didn't consider that the same kinda thing. I just don't see a modern company with a game as big as BG3 (and the licensing deal therein) being willing or able to just let another studio make more content for it and couldn't think of any similar cases. I think it's fair because I don't think it's anywhere near as common as it used to be, mostly I think due to a change in economic circumstances. It's kind of what happened to use map settings maps--Unity, Unreal Engine, and other engines and resources have become so established that a half-resourced company is better off making their own "Generica the Genericism" than tying their own gameplay innovation or writing products to someone else's horse. Which is probably what happened here--both Hasbro and Larian are taking a loss. Based on Hasbro's recent actions elsewhere, I assume that Larian's lofty anti-sequel claims wouldn't have been expressed if DnD was free and that Hasbro's leverage became oppressive.
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Mar 22, 2024 03:56
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Larian will probably be fine: while BG3 likely would not have been nearly as popular as it was without the D&D branding and was "just" another iteration of the Divine Divinity series (which are excellent), now they really can do another Divine Divinity (or a new IP) and bank on their priors to generate buzz.
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Mar 22, 2024 04:10
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Infinite respect for holding that WOTC bag long enough to get everything they wanted out of it and walking away to go do anything else, not even sarcasm.
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Mar 22, 2024 04:12
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Just like tabletop games, hook then newbies with 8 sessions of D&D the spring your hand made heartbreaker/Shadowrun campaign/WoD-alt-history/indie PbtA setting on your captured
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Mar 22, 2024 04:19
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Considering hasbro literally sacked everyone they worked with on BG3, I'm not shocked at all.
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Mar 22, 2024 04:39
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Finally got rid of Mike Mearls though, so something good came out of it, if only incidentally.
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Mar 22, 2024 05:42
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Hostile V posted:Infinite respect for holding that WOTC bag long enough to get everything they wanted out of it and walking away to go do anything else, not even sarcasm. Incredible work. Godspeed, Larian.
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Mar 22, 2024 09:00
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They may even have made the 5e/whatever's next devs consider actual game design.
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Mar 22, 2024 09:01
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I think it's easy to say that D&D 'needs' Larian more than Larian 'needs' D&D. Neither really needs the other as they're both successful, obviously, but Larian can just make basically whatever they want now. I know we're all living in the franchise Hellscape where original IPs feel like they will struggle, but what percentage of BG3's success was based on it being D&D specifically instead of being a sequel to the previous acclaimed video games, or Larian's success with Divinity, or just that they did a terrific job on this one?
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Mar 22, 2024 10:36
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Bottom Liner posted:What? When has another studio ever made official expansions for a video game? Not counting things like Activision that has many different devs all working on the same stuff, obviously. Another studio? Pretty frequently. For example Bioware Edmonton (i.e. the original Bioware studio) made the Mass Effect games but most of the DLC was made by Bioware Montreal. Another company is rarer but not unknown.
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Mar 22, 2024 12:03
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A refrain I hear a lot when developers talk about games they used to work on in the 90s and early 00s is that after spending a year or two or three working on a game, they’re really itching for a chance to do something else for a change. I can imagine that after however many years Baldur’s Gate 3 was in development, a lot of Larian employees would like to work on something other than even more D&D. I can really only salute them for choosing to go with their heart and their dream and maybe make something original, rather than going back to the D&D mines. (Full disclosure: I found BG3 a bit difficult to stick with and haven’t gotten very far, so I’m not very invested in it in the first place.)
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Mar 22, 2024 12:04
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neonchameleon posted:Another studio? Pretty frequently. For example Bioware Edmonton (i.e. the original Bioware studio) made the Mass Effect games but most of the DLC was made by Bioware Montreal. Another company is rarer but not unknown. Yeah we need to remember that studio has a very specific meaning in the games dev world and largely means a given office / location / team. BioWare Edmonton had entire sub-studios under them that reported to Edmonton directly before reporting up to Electronic Arts proper. Which made a ton of things harder then it needed to be when dealing with the IT side of things. Also many studios used to get their start developing ports / DLC / etc for other studios. It’s not uncommon for a dev team to quit en masse from BigDev to form NewDev then contract to do work for BigDev until they get bought up by BigDev. This obviously is not as common in the TradGames space as it is in Video Games.
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Mar 22, 2024 13:52
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The director of BG3 and the CEO of Larian also blasted the current corporate greed in gaming leading to mass layoffs: https://www.eurogamer.net/baldurs-gate-3-boss-blasts-publisher-greed-behind-layoffs posted:"Greed has been loving this whole thing up for so long, since I started," Vincke said, while collecting the GDCA Best Narrative award for Baldur's Gate 3. "I've been fighting publishers my entire life and I keep on seeing the same, same, same mistakes over, and over and over. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those feelings are coming up and Larian is distancing itself from Wizards of the Coast after seeing what happened to teams there that collaborated to make Baldur's Gate 3 a big hit that the company is riding on.
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Mar 22, 2024 13:55
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Leperflesh posted:it's possible another studio could pick up the game for expansions etc. but the Larian guy seems pretty clear that he's not interested in making sequels of any kind for any game, which... well, it must be nice to be so rich that you can just decline to cash in on a massively profitable game in favor of taking a risk with whatever new thing you want to do Magnetic North posted:I think it's easy to say that D&D 'needs' Larian more than Larian 'needs' D&D. Neither really needs the other as they're both successful, obviously, but Larian can just make basically whatever they want now.
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Mar 22, 2024 14:55
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Nuns with Guns posted:The director of BG3 and the CEO of Larian also blasted the current corporate greed in gaming leading to mass layoffs: Honestly, Larian gets massive props for doing what they want, and I can't imagine the frustration in seeing everyone great you worked with (and Mearls) getting sacked after you made something that was GOTY in a year full of GOTYs.
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Mar 22, 2024 15:20
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Halloween Jack posted:TSR lost control of D&D as a genre/brand around 1981. What do they need from the official D&D IP? I think the brand “D&D” has a fair bit of market weight still.
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Mar 22, 2024 16:09
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Inb4 Larian makes a Pathfinder game
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Mar 22, 2024 16:26
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I must admit while I have enjoyed a few of Larian's pre-BG3 games, I enjoyed BG3's 5E implementation more than the mechanics in DOS1&2 and Divinity games' worldbuilding and storytelling has always felt like a slurry of generic videogame-y fantasy bullshit. I just went to their wiki to refresh myself on the plots of the games I've played and Larian please just start a new IP or license something actually good again, please.
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Mar 22, 2024 16:40
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Megazver posted:They're still rolling out patches and hotfixes. If you still haven't played, might as well wait another year or so. Agreed. We're still in the "each patch breaks something else" stage of the game.
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Mar 22, 2024 16:41
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Apparently Larian started work on BG3 DLC and BG4 and abandoned it early in the process. Good on them for not just doing the obvious next thing!
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Mar 22, 2024 16:44
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It's very funny Larian is framing it that way, when I'm willing to bet almost anything it is talks breaking down with WotC over money such as cost and how much WotC rent seeks.
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Mar 22, 2024 16:50
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I don’t know if Larian can actually build a good world, but they certainly have the resources now to try a bunch of stuff and render that world with exceptionally high fidelity once they settle on one they like.
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Mar 22, 2024 17:19
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Dexo posted:It's very funny Larian is framing it that way, when I'm willing to bet almost anything it is talks breaking down with WotC over money such as cost and how much WotC rent seeks. I think it’s more likely that working with WotC is hellish and constricting, and now that they don’t have to do that they aren’t going to put up with it.
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Mar 22, 2024 17:20
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The number one thing I always think about from the development of that game was when they announced some changes to Ranger to make it more interesting and useful and Mearls slimed his way to some interview to announce "And D&D is gonna fix Ranger too!" only to get hit with an immediate tweet from one of the guys with any actual power (Crawford?) saying no, they aren't.
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Mar 22, 2024 17:28
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theironjef posted:The number one thing I always think about from the development of that game was when they announced some changes to Ranger to make it more interesting and useful and Mearls slimed his way to some interview to announce "And D&D is gonna fix Ranger too!" only to get hit with an immediate tweet from one of the guys with any actual power (Crawford?) saying no, they aren't. The fact that so much cruft in 5e has remained the same (or broken) because of institutional inertia is so loving depressing. I’ve been looking at Broken Weave, DC20, Drakkenheim, and Tales of the Valiant to see if they can push the game to be more player and GM-friendly, but the fact that WotC won’t even take cues from *Larian* is disheartening. I’m playing other games, but my friends and I are players in a 6-year campaign and we can’t give up 5e any time soon.
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Mar 22, 2024 17:47
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Hunter Noventa posted:Considering hasbro literally sacked everyone they worked with on BG3, I'm not shocked at all. Yeah, I mentioned before that the mass firings is probably the only big thing Hasbro/WotC did last year that will seriously affect their ability to produce good product over the long-term. None of the controversies that popped up on the internet really had a lot of staying power (or in some cases even broke the surface of being noticed by people who are not terminally online), but the firings are really going to screw up the day-to-day decision making within the company. Dexo posted:It's very funny Larian is framing it that way, when I'm willing to bet almost anything it is talks breaking down with WotC over money such as cost and how much WotC rent seeks. I agree with this, or at least that this was a big part of it. Larian’s CEO literally popped off last night about greedy executives and the problems with mass firings and short-term profit chasing. My bet is that everyone they worked with got fired (we know this happened), and the same C-suite big brains tried to re-negotiate with Larian with terms that were unacceptable. I’m also going to disagree with the sentiment in this thread. I agree that Larian is obviously an excellent set of game developers who proved their commitment to making a great game that was worth it’s price and more. However, I absolutely would have never picked up that game if it hadn’t been called ‘Baldur’s Gate 3’, and I’m reasonably sure that’s the case for a lot of people. Maybe they’ll be able to spin “From the makers of BG3” to carry the audience over to their next game, but the D&D IP still holds a lot of weight, and I don’t think they’re actually that happy with not being able to work on it again. I’m not exaggerating when I say that BG3 has caused a significant swell in the interest in D&D in my city, and it’s been very exciting to see so many new faces from such a variety of backgrounds that I don’t typically see playing the game. It’s shame that we might not get a repeat like that in a few years.
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Mar 22, 2024 17:48
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Gray Ghost posted:The fact that so much cruft in 5e has remained the same (or broken) because of institutional inertia is so loving depressing. I’ve been looking at Broken Weave, DC20, Drakkenheim, and Tales of the Valiant to see if they can push the game to be more player and GM-friendly, but the fact that WotC won’t even take cues from *Larian* is disheartening. Edit: I wanted to chime in about this about 45 pages ago. 5e is fine as a mechanical base, it's just d20, which is squished percentiles plus funny dice for effects. But I look at most 5e-compatible content and it's like nothing has changed since the initial glut of D20 shovelware, 2021 may as well have been 2001. I'll use 5e Hellboy as an example. A beloved franchise that should appeal to a lot of people as a game, lovely art assets to use. And it's the most low-effort port of D&D to a modern supernatural setting you could ask for. Notably, it's impossible to play Hellboy or someone on his level. I'll say this for 5e: it seems like they've created a default mode of play/set of expectations where people expect their D&D PC to be a heroic character with a backstory whose character development is important. Starting PCs are fairly competent and it's hard to die. (Maybe this was created more by APs than anything, but whatever.) And in this environment the devs couldn't imagine a Hellboy game where playing some kind of man-monster involves more than a couple petty feat-like abilities, it's pathetic. It makes more sense when you see that everyone on the design team had experience with 5e, 2d20, and nothing else, apparently. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Mar 22, 2024 |
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Mar 22, 2024 17:56
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Though most D&D branded games don't get people to play either. No one played the new Dark Alliance game, no one played the Tomb of Annihilation game, Neverwinter was pretty niche as far as MMOs go, etc. The only one I'm not really sure on is if Idle Champions of the Forgotten Realms quietly made a billion dollars or something silly like that given how mobile games work.
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Mar 22, 2024 17:57
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Larian should make a Fragged Kingdoms RPG
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Mar 22, 2024 18:04
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gradenko_2000 posted:Larian should make a Fragged Kingdoms RPG Larian should make a game that doesn't become impossibly complex due to legacy game-breaking magic. If that's Fragged Kingdoms, heck yeah.
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