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His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.
Yet it comes so naturally to the germans

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A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

steinrokkan posted:

Fico simply follows the oh so familiar "disgraced social democrat -> fascist tinpot dictator" pipeline.
Can't believe a social fascist would turn into a regular one.

golden bubble
Jun 3, 2011

yospos

suck my woke dick posted:

eh he's not that bad

also

How about we don't reintroduce a backwards martial culture and instead unfuck procurement and budgeting so our precious tax euros actually buy a credible deterrent force that can deploy half an hour's drive away from the barracks without breaking down on the side of the Autobahn

This. You must remember that France and Germany spend roughly the same amount on their military. But France manages to buy multiple functioning armored brigades, their own set of purely French stupid neocolonialist invasion adventures peacekeeping operations, and nuclear powered aircraft carrier. And Germany manages to buy much less on the same budget.

Honj Steak
May 31, 2013

Hi there.

Tesseraction posted:


In Europe's defence, and particularly in Germany, contemporary history is taught, hence the infamous case of the German student studying overseas in the US having to explain to an American classmate arguing against learning about slavery, that, actually, Germany does teach about the Holocaust, because it's important to learn from historical mistakes.

Nowadays the biggest difference in how this time period is taught in Germany vs the US is that German kids mostly learn about how the 3rd Reich supposedly came to be vs how all American kids remember are some random battle formations during WW2.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 2 hours!
Soiled Meat

golden bubble posted:

This. You must remember that France and Germany spend roughly the same amount on their military. But France manages to buy multiple functioning armored brigades, their own set of purely French stupid neocolonialist invasion adventures peacekeeping operations, and nuclear powered aircraft carrier. And Germany manages to buy much less on the same budget.

German military budget mostly goes to the salaries of Russian spies

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009

Honj Steak posted:

Nowadays the biggest difference in how this time period is taught in Germany vs the US is that German kids mostly learn about how the 3rd Reich supposedly came to be vs how all American kids remember are some random battle formations during WW2.

In the UK my main takeaways were that Nazi Germany spontaneously came into being, invaded Poland, Dunkirk, something something WE LIBERATED BERGEN-BELSEN, wasn't Anne Frank tragic? Pause. Hitler Dood, Nou Wat?

The Soviets? That some kinda band?

suck my woke dick
Oct 10, 2012

:siren:I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!:siren:

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

steinrokkan posted:

German military budget mostly goes to the BAAINBW, overpriced arms procurement projects due to unusually insecure funding streams being priced into any bid, and paying contractors to twiddle their thumbs because the Bauämter are unable to release infrastructure/capital construction funds due to being understaffed and taking over a decade to process new paperwork even if the thing is already budgeted for

ftfy

suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 12:45 on Mar 22, 2024

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:
Most of the budget goes to personnel costs, including pensions.

suck my woke dick
Oct 10, 2012

:siren:I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!:siren:

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

golden bubble posted:

This. You must remember that France and Germany spend roughly the same amount on their military. But France manages to buy multiple functioning armored brigades, their own set of purely French stupid neocolonialist invasion adventures peacekeeping operations, and nuclear powered aircraft carrier. And Germany manages to buy much less on the same budget.

yeah this. spending some time streamlining procurement, hiring enough staff to process spending requests at an acceptable rate and reducing micromanagement by whoever gets promoted to defense minister this week will benefit the Bundeswehr just as much as constitutionally amending the budget to include another hundred billion euro fund that we pretend doesn't affect the Schwarze Null.

suck my woke dick
Oct 10, 2012

:siren:I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!:siren:

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

Antigravitas posted:

Most of the budget goes to personnel costs, including pensions.

True, but unless you mimic the Finnish force structure with a tiny core force and a ludicrously oversized well-trained reserve that isn't on payroll, expensive pay and benefits spending is unavoidable in a modern army. I'm sure there's some waste and you can try to improve retention to focus spending on troops doing useful service, but those aren't uniquely German problems either.

Some of the things that Germany could change more easily are processing the paperwork for projects in a speedy manner (some removal/updating of badly written rules and hiring enough paper pushers to actually push the papers), avoiding overspending on maintenance of worn out complex systems with poor spare parts availability (either do a full overhaul or just accept keeping less of the increasingly trash cold war leftovers in service, allowing more money for procurement if you also unfuck budgeting), and ensuring that a fully funded project that keeps reasonably on budget stays fully funded all the way instead of having a 50:50 chance of being cut every year during budget time.

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:
I feel like you don't understand the importance of pro-cyclic spending to the schwarze Nullen. During crises that threaten the state's finances, it's important to a) cut back spending and b) lower taxes and c) raise pensions. By raising pensions you can increase the military budget as well.

This is very simple, a complete idiot could come up with this foolproof plan. That's why the schwarze Nullen put it into the constitution.



(I'm with you on the BAAINBw, but let's be realistic about the voting demographics of Germany)


Anyway, I heard another great plan to cut costs is to switch to JiT procurement for things like spare parts.

suck my woke dick
Oct 10, 2012

:siren:I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!:siren:

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

Antigravitas posted:

I feel like you don't understand the importance of pro-cyclic spending to the schwarze Nullen. During crises that threaten the state's finances, it's important to a) cut back spending and b) lower taxes and c) raise pensions. By raising pensions you can increase the military budget as well.

This is very simple, a complete idiot could come up with this foolproof plan. That's why the schwarze Nullen put it into the constitution.



(I'm with you on the BAAINBw, but let's be realistic about the voting demographics of Germany)

I was talking about a scenario where defense spending exists to actually buy a useful army with equipment that works and isn't ridiculously overpriced. If you keep treating the defense budget as the "misc spending (arbitrarily adjustable to make more important things work)” budget then yeah.


quote:

Anyway, I heard another great plan to cut costs is to switch to JiT procurement for things like spare parts.

comrade COVID do it again

Blut
Sep 11, 2009

if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine

Antigravitas posted:

Most of the budget goes to personnel costs, including pensions.

The French military has approx 10% more personnel than that German military, and at comparable salaries and pensions. Yet the French still have far more to show for their money.

The German military is just horrendously run.

Wheeljack
Jul 12, 2021
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...f-machine-guns/

A nine year old story about German soldiers painting broomsticks black to pass as machine guns during an exercise, with shocking numbers about how many pistols and machineguns their elite reaction forces were missing, 2/3rds of their planes and only 1 out of 4 submarines being operational, etc. That was around the time Russia moved into Crimea, shot down an airliner full of Dutch citizens... but they've clearly been unable to improve in the decade since, or live up to their treaty obligations.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:
Is German at risk of losing its status as a language?

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

All the continental languages have been subsumed by English. An artefact of the Cold War, but here we are all the same.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009



It isn’t helped by Usanian cultural collonialism.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

It isn’t helped by Usanian cultural collonialism.

Yes, this was one of the avenues in the Cold War. They even made it a win condition in the Civ games

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Enjoy every sandwich.

Smellrose

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

It isn’t helped by Usanian cultural collonialism.

Who the hell are the Usanians?

suck my woke dick
Oct 10, 2012

:siren:I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!:siren:

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

Who the hell are the Usanians?

USA-nians, hth

NihilCredo
Jun 6, 2011

iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

Who the hell are the Usanians?

I think it's those guys that run really fast

suck my woke dick
Oct 10, 2012

:siren:I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!:siren:

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

Rappaport posted:

All the continental languages have been subsumed by English. An artefact of the Cold War, but here we are all the same.

that one I don't mind, makes things easier, just standardise on one second language for everyone everywhere and if it bleeds into the first language then whatever

GABA ghoul
Oct 29, 2011

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Is German at risk of losing its status as a language?

Calling it a language was always a little bit of a stretch. It's mostly a Dutch dialect

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

suck my woke dick posted:

that one I don't mind, makes things easier, just standardise on one second language for everyone everywhere and if it bleeds into the first language then whatever

lol, good luck with that, Finland will be sending one MEP from the "must have Swedish as a second language" party until Russia genocides everything east of Paris

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 2 hours!
Soiled Meat
If you institute a universal second language, it will just degenerate into numerous regional, mutually unintelligible variants. It has already happened to English, French, Spanish...

Just Another Lurker
May 1, 2009

Who speaks Etruscan nowadays? :colbert:

English is the new Latin.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

GABA ghoul posted:

Calling it a language was always a little bit of a stretch. It's mostly a Dutch dialect
I'm not aware of the military capabilities of the Netherlands, so I'll take your word for it.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

NihilCredo posted:

I think it's those guys that run really fast

It's crazy how they just bolt all over the place.

Blut
Sep 11, 2009

if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine

Rappaport posted:

All the continental languages have been subsumed by English. An artefact of the Cold War, but here we are all the same.

Brexit has ironically done wonders for English becoming the default working language of the EU.

It was already by far the most spoken language (much to French chagrin), but now that its a "neutral" language not associated with any of the big players its become even more acceptable as the default.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Languages are like diseases, once you get one you can't shake it. I can't help but hear English now, I often think and even dream in it, and I lament how my national broadcasting company succumbs to giving no shits about my language and giving precedence, even scholarly status, to "finglish".

None of this will stop the Germans, of course, but on the negative side, at least we wiped out a lot of the marginal European ethnic barriers.

holds hand to ear I'm being told we still have major European ethnic barriers, and that Germany is fighting tooth and nail to keep Russia happy

Oh.

Well, good job EU

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009



Rappaport posted:

Yes, this was one of the avenues in the Cold War. They even made it a win condition in the Civ games
It isn't just a win condition either; in the newest version, the Rough Rider Teddy Roosevelt leader for the American civ is probably the easiest cultural victory to achieve, even over other Civs with leaders that get cultural bonuses on the harder difficulties.

suck my woke dick
Oct 10, 2012

:siren:I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!:siren:

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

steinrokkan posted:

If you institute a universal second language, it will just degenerate into numerous regional, mutually unintelligible variants. It has already happened to English, French, Spanish...

make them learn the second language according to manual in addition to the dialect once poo poo becomes mutually unintelligible. it's there as a trade/diplomacy/foreign paperwork language, not a living language.

Jon Pod Van Damm
Apr 6, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 10 hours!

Rappaport posted:

Languages are like diseases, once you get one you can't shake it. I can't help but hear English now, I often think and even dream in it, and I lament how my national broadcasting company succumbs to giving no shits about my language and giving precedence, even scholarly status, to "finglish".

None of this will stop the Germans, of course, but on the negative side, at least we wiped out a lot of the marginal European ethnic barriers.
Yes, I agree. When English became a mandatory language at university, businesses and other institutions they made us speak their language. Language changes us. Our thoughts, our personality, our sense of right and wrong. Words can be lethal. Words invade our bodies, sink into our heart and multiply inside us. Our home, our truth, has been stolen. Our past has been stolen. We were left with only our future, and our future should be revenge, revenge against those who sucked the words out of our people, and that's when I realized that the code of language, the code of the message, everything around us, is the genetic code that runs through history.

That code implanted in our brains that absorbs us as it is passed from host to host, that parasitic code on this planet that is the English language. I hold it responsible for killing our freedom. It strangles every trace of our past. Strangles all hope for the future. We are all dead, forced to walk this earth. The world is reduced to American English, and American Thought.

Americans can not understand. Before they walked or cried, even before they were born, their mother tongue was American English. They never knew the pain of losing their mother tongue.

America plans to control the world with its code. They think they can. The 'mother tongue' of all these symbols is American English. We must destroy the English language. We must free the world from its invasion. All peoples will breathe freely again. They will reclaim their past, their present and their future. This is not ethnic cleansing. This is a liberation who will rid the world of America. Let there be peace. Without a lingua franca, the world will give way. And then it will be free. People, of course, will suffer the pain of ghosts.

Rappaport posted:

holds hand to ear I'm being told we still have major European ethnic barriers, and that Germany is fighting tooth and nail to keep Russia happy

Oh.

Well, good job EU
We have to keep everyone happy and import LNG from both America AND Russia.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

It's ironic that The Invisibles was written in English. But at least we'll always have :umberto:

Though that implies learning a different language, too. PERKELE!

NihilCredo
Jun 6, 2011

iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

Rappaport posted:

It's ironic that The Invisibles was written in English. But at least we'll always have :umberto:

Though that implies learning a different language, too. PERKELE!

Quite a few of those we consider national authors from the 16th-18th centuries - especially from smaller countries - wrote their biggest works in French, or sometimes in another empire's cultural language. Hell, many national languages only consolidated after spending centuries as courtly/literary languages.

Nihil novo sub solem.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.

Jon Pod Van Damm posted:

Yes, I agree. When English became a mandatory language at university, businesses and other institutions they made us speak their language. Language changes us. Our thoughts, our personality, our sense of right and wrong. Words can be lethal. Words invade our bodies, sink into our heart and multiply inside us. Our home, our truth, has been stolen. Our past has been stolen. We were left with only our future, and our future should be revenge, revenge against those who sucked the words out of our people, and that's when I realized that the code of language, the code of the message, everything around us, is the genetic code that runs through history.

That code implanted in our brains that absorbs us as it is passed from host to host, that parasitic code on this planet that is the English language. I hold it responsible for killing our freedom. It strangles every trace of our past. Strangles all hope for the future. We are all dead, forced to walk this earth. The world is reduced to American English, and American Thought.

Americans can not understand. Before they walked or cried, even before they were born, their mother tongue was American English. They never knew the pain of losing their mother tongue.

America plans to control the world with its code. They think they can. The 'mother tongue' of all these symbols is American English. We must destroy the English language. We must free the world from its invasion. All peoples will breathe freely again. They will reclaim their past, their present and their future. This is not ethnic cleansing. This is a liberation who will rid the world of America. Let there be peace. Without a lingua franca, the world will give way. And then it will be free. People, of course, will suffer the pain of ghosts.

Kamelåså

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:
Am deutschen Wesen soll die Welt genesen.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 2 hours!
Soiled Meat

Jon Pod Van Damm posted:

Yes, I agree. When English became a mandatory language at university, businesses and other institutions they made us speak their language. Language changes us. Our thoughts, our personality, our sense of right and wrong. Words can be lethal. Words invade our bodies, sink into our heart and multiply inside us. Our home, our truth, has been stolen. Our past has been stolen. We were left with only our future, and our future should be revenge, revenge against those who sucked the words out of our people, and that's when I realized that the code of language, the code of the message, everything around us, is the genetic code that runs through history.

That code implanted in our brains that absorbs us as it is passed from host to host, that parasitic code on this planet that is the English language. I hold it responsible for killing our freedom. It strangles every trace of our past. Strangles all hope for the future. We are all dead, forced to walk this earth. The world is reduced to American English, and American Thought.

Americans can not understand. Before they walked or cried, even before they were born, their mother tongue was American English. They never knew the pain of losing their mother tongue.

America plans to control the world with its code. They think they can. The 'mother tongue' of all these symbols is American English. We must destroy the English language. We must free the world from its invasion. All peoples will breathe freely again. They will reclaim their past, their present and their future. This is not ethnic cleansing. This is a liberation who will rid the world of America. Let there be peace. Without a lingua franca, the world will give way. And then it will be free. People, of course, will suffer the pain of ghosts.

We have to keep everyone happy and import LNG from both America AND Russia.
... But unironically

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Antigravitas posted:

Am deutschen Wesen soll die Welt genesen.

Auf de heide bluht ein kleines blumelein, und das heisst, Kaarina

Which I suppose proves the point, but I still wouldn't expect anyone to learn Finnish just for the sake of being polite

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Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009

GABA ghoul posted:

Calling it a language was always a little bit of a stretch. It's mostly a Dutch dialect

Being fair the same can be said of English.

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