|
National Parks posted:I did indeed say actors of which the US and the Biden administration are. I've stated that Biden can not single handedly end the genocide that Israel has been committing against Palestine for decades. How is that genocide denialism of Palestine?
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 01:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 11:57 |
|
|
Kalit posted:I've stated that Biden can not single handedly end the genocide that Israel has been committing against Palestine for decades. How is that genocide denialism of Palestine? Because the US is fundamentaly intertwined with the genocide in Palestine and denying Bidens culpability in it is a fundamentaly naive position that basically endorses Israel's right to continue its extermination campaign?
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 02:17
|
|
|
Kalit posted:I've stated that Biden can not single handedly end the genocide that Israel has been committing against Palestine for decades. How is that genocide denialism of Palestine? How morally culpable do you think he is for this current round of slaughter in watch over 30'000 have been killed, and do you think he should face consequences in courts of international law? If not, why not?
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 02:32
|
|
|
Your Brain on Hugs posted:How morally culpable do you think he is for this current round of slaughter in watch over 30'000 have been killed, and do you think he should face consequences in courts of international law? If not, why not? I don't mean to deflect with my question below as I would gladly see Biden face charges at the ICJ if that were possible. I'm literally actually curious if there's precedent; Has anyone ever been charged or convicted for materiel support of a genocidal state in the past? Like aside from the Holocaust most other nations involved in genocide were dependent on foreign imports. However I think it's also arguable with the information we have that Israel is uniquely relying on one other state for materiel to conduct their genocidal military campaign.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 02:38
|
|
|
It's not just the 100 arms transfers that the Biden administration has done since Oct 7th but the diplomatic cover. Every day the state department ghouls come out and say they're worried or concerned. All of it just PR to make liberals feel better. The US pulling funding at the same time as the ICJ ruling hit should be a radicalizing moment if you were on the fence.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 06:28
|
|
|
Looking at Rwanda and other recent cases, convicting anyone of genocide seems to require specific intent that is difficult to prove in court. The public statements by some Israeli government ministers might be adequate to show intent much as the radio broadcasts in Rwanda did. But no, sending weapons to Israel isn't going to end you up in the Hague, the statements by Biden and others to avoid civilian casualties and to permit aid, useless as they may be, are a pretty solid defense as they show a lack of intent. Showing the level of deliberate intent to kill isn't easy. Smart genocidaires don't write poo poo down. "Taking notes on a criminal conspiracy", etc.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 07:10
|
|
|
Not to mention that the US literally has a directive to invade the Hague if any member of the US military gets convicted there. It's certainly completely outside the realm of possibility, more a thought experiment of what might happen in a world where international justice meant anything. I mainly just get a bit sickened by people who will exscuse or attempt to minimize the US role in enabling and supporting Israels genocide because their favoured political party is in charge. I think it's moral cowardice, especially if they would be acting completely differently if it was trump doing the exact same things.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 07:29
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/stephensemler/status/1771607634270961888
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 07:57
|
|
|
I'm sure he packaged those weapons with a stern letter of disapproval about killing women and children
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 09:51
|
|
|
gently caress. Im paying almost 100K in taxes this year.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 11:35
|
|
|
RoboBoogie posted:gently caress. Im paying almost 100K in taxes this year. Pre-war lira?
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 11:39
|
|
|
Imagine if it was any other country that was killing tens of thousands of women and children, and it was a republican president in office, giving billions in weapons to that country. The liberals would be frothing with righteous anger over it. But because it's Israel and it's Biden, they equivocate, minimize and deflect. Absolute moral depravity. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 12:32
|
|
|
ed: nope
Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Mar 24, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 13:14
|
|
|
Now that you've done Ukraine, you should also do China. That'll really show us. "Open opposition" is a credulous read. It's the same hall pass poo poo as always. You always get a few Democrats voting against their own bills when it doesn't matter and won't affect the outcome. Until these people stop supporting Biden for President, there's no reason to think they're serious.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 13:53
|
|
|
What is your point? Neither Ukraine nor Russia are committing genocide, either. Israel is. That is the whole loving point. This is about Israel, not China, not Russia, not “tankies” which seems to have lost all meaning at this point if a “tankie” is someone who is disgusted by Biden arming Israel, the side with all the tanks and not the people who want to minimize his culpability.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 13:59
|
|
|
You need to show some media literacy and trust the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation before you get banned for genocide denial, buddy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 14:08
|
|
|
The US should deliver tens of thousands of pounds of fully armed munitions to every IDF base and out post until the genocide stops, imo
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 14:40
|
|
|
Esran posted:You need to show some media literacy and trust the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation before you get banned for genocide denial, buddy. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 14:43
|
|
|
Who can say what is and is not a genocide? With "doing a Holocaust" now reduced to a descriptor for using a plastic straw, and Chinese curry sauce having completely colonised the traditional chip shop? It is such an abstract and abstruse phenomenon. I'm sure we'll recognise it when we see one though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 16:20
|
|
|
SMEGMA_MAIL posted:What is your point? Neither Ukraine nor Russia are committing genocide, either. Israel is. That is the whole loving point. This is about Israel, not China, not Russia, not “tankies” which seems to have lost all meaning at this point if a “tankie” is someone who is disgusted by Biden arming Israel, the side with all the tanks and not the people who want to minimize his culpability. Russia isnt committing Genocide? Its just a bit of friendly ethnic cleansing between neighbors eh?
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 18:10
|
|
|
Your Brain on Hugs posted:Imagine if it was any other country that was killing tens of thousands of women and children, and it was a republican president in office, giving billions in weapons to that country. Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Mar 24, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 18:39
|
|
|
skipmyseashells posted:As a Muslim it’s so disgusting to see that being used as a ban reason while people can freely hasbara post and do real genocide denialism on Palestine, insanely islamaphobic act during Ramadan of all months too Seconding. The discourse and lopsided moderation here really disgusts me and reminds me of how marginalized my voice is in the rest of society. I’d post here but it’s clear there’s no space for it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 19:26
|
|
|
Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Who can say what is and is not a genocide? With "doing a Holocaust" now reduced to a descriptor for using a plastic straw, and Chinese curry sauce having completely colonised the traditional chip shop? It is such an abstract and abstruse phenomenon. I'm sure we'll recognise it when we see one though. What does curry sauce have to do with genocide?
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 19:31
|
|
|
Anyone denying genocide should be banned, whether they are defending Israel, Russia, the US, China, the UK, Canada, Japan, Australia, or the multitudes of other governments both historically and presently committing or abetting it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 19:38
|
|
|
It's pretty funny that whataboutism is the only defense left to Israel supporters. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 19:44
|
|
|
Fuschia tude posted:What does curry sauce have to do with genocide? The curry sauce is ideology.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 19:52
|
|
|
Irony Be My Shield posted:Judging by the Saudi Arabian intervention in Yemen my guess would be very few Americans would know or care about it? Yeah, most Americans don't know or care about the other genocides and atrocities the US has supported. The main reason this one is getting so much attention is because it's being done by a country so tightly allied with the US, with such a strong media presence that has been so used to justifying what they do to Palestinians.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 20:07
|
|
|
SMEGMA_MAIL posted:What is your point? Neither Ukraine nor Russia are committing genocide, either. Israel is. That is the whole loving point. This is about Israel, not China, not Russia, not “tankies” which seems to have lost all meaning at this point if a “tankie” is someone who is disgusted by Biden arming Israel, the side with all the tanks and not the people who want to minimize his culpability. Yes they are. run on sentience posted:Anyone denying genocide should be banned, whether they are defending Israel, Russia, the US, China, the UK, Canada, Japan, Australia, or the multitudes of other governments both historically and presently committing or abetting it. This, pretending to hold the high ground while saying other atrocities aren't happening really just shows you are in this as a team sport.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 20:11
|
|
|
Hear hear! I have long thought that we should exclude from these discussions anyone posting positively about multiple-genocide-complicit terror state, The United States of America (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 20:19
|
|
|
run on sentience posted:Anyone denying genocide should be banned, whether they are defending Israel, Russia, the US, China, the UK, Canada, Japan, Australia, or the multitudes of other governments both historically and presently committing or abetting it. Mods, please ban my posting enemies for wrongthink. Anyone who questions the accuracy of accusations does not belong on these forums. This has never steered us wrong before, everyone remembers the ironclad evidence Colin Powell shared at the UN, that poor Nayirah girl, and all the WMDs we found in Iraq. I don't want to live in a world where you can't trust evangelical nutjobs and the State Department. If they say it's more than human rights abuses but actual genocide, we should ban discussion of whether that's an accurate description, because why wouldn't it be? When Wikipedia has to rename their article on the subject because "Uyghur Genocide" is considered to be a slanted decription, that must just be because they're all tankies. Most importantly, I should be allowed to run interference for Israel in the I/P thread, by pretending that everyone condemning the US in strong terms is not doing so in good faith, but are engaging in "team sports", because otherwise why wouldn't they agree with me that China is doing a genocide comparable to the one in Gaza? Esran fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Mar 24, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 20:42
|
|
|
In "you couldn't torture me into admitting this" news, an Israeli General got big mad that a US official confronted him with a UN report about sexual abuse of Palestinians behind closed doors so he went and told the press about it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 20:52
|
|
|
socialsecurity posted:Yes they are. You’ve said before the houthis are doing ethnic cleansing to downplay whatever israel is doing. Everyone bringing up China when they haven’t killed 0.1% of what israel has done is pathetic, which is why you have to talk about it in vague terms like you do. And those same Chinese Muslims are all against Israel too, only team sports being played are you random posters acting like what China is doing is anywhere similar to this hyper genocide
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 20:53
|
|
|
Just so this thread doesn't get too up its own rear end: Israel will no longer approve aid convoys by the UNRWA, a decision they're coincidentally announcing at the same time the Americans defund that program for "at least the next year" (never coming back, it's been ACORN'ed). https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/unrwa-says-israel-will-no-longer-approve-its-food-convoys-northern-gaza-2024-03-24/ It's almost like the US and Israel are collaborating on this genocide. Esran fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Mar 24, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 21:14
|
|
|
Esran posted:Just so this thread doesn't get too up its own rear end: Really clear evidence of American participation in a genocide here. Actively enabling starvation in Gaza while we pretend to build a pier that *might* bring in supplies in two months. Meanwhile Israel staged mass executions at Al-shifa hospital within the last week. And the we've stalled at 30000 dead for months.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 21:44
|
|
|
Esran posted:Just so this thread doesn't get too up its own rear end: fwiw I'm pretty sure unrwa has secured enough funding and future funding to continue to operate, it just... could do a lot more if the usa turned the spigot back on. They're also working with agencies and orgs that are still funded (e: by the US). It's just a really stupid way to handle it when unrwa is right there and has tons of established organization and a good bit of established infrastructure. Some of that future funding is contingent on the full investigation report and some limp-rear end 'reforms'. They can do the second one and I very much doubt the full report is going to look any better for Israeli lies than the interim one. Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Mar 24, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 21:58
|
|
|
Goatse James Bond posted:fwiw I'm pretty sure unrwa has secured enough funding and future funding to continue to operate, it just... could do a lot more if the usa turned the spigot back on. They're also working with agencies and orgs that are still funded. It's just a really stupid way to handle it when unrwa is right there and has tons of established organization and a good bit of established infrastructure. I think it's strangely charitable to interpret this as the US simply being stupid. Anyway, I don't know how the UNRWA will operate if Israel blanket denies them entrance to Gaza. Sadly, they can't just shoot their way past the IDF guards.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 22:15
|
|
|
Esran posted:I think it's strangely charitable to interpret this as the US simply being stupid. Let me rephrase: it doesn't really achieve the Congressional objective of sidelining unrwa (until they shape up or the report exonerates them to Congress' satisfaction blah blah whatever), because other agencies they're giving money to are working with unrwa anyway. It's not as good at helping Gazans as continuing to fund UNRWA, because you're adding unnecessary intermediate layers. It's not really a policy solution to anything, evil or good, except making legislators look supportive of Israel's campaign against Hamas*. Which, you know, they're legislators, they do this sort of thing sometimes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 22:35
|
|
|
The article isn't very long but there's language that makes me curious and I simply do not have the time to dig into it right now. It's specifically "aid convoys to the north of Gaza" being interdicted, not (presumably) all entry to all of Gaza. I can make a couple guesses as to what is being distinguished here but that'd just be my gut talking if I don't find a longer or more detailed piece. Possibly from, you know, unrwa.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 22:39
|
|
|
unrwa probably prefers not getting direct funding anyway; I bet they’ve asked multiple times for their financial support to be obscured and refracted through other organizations but no administration was brave enough to face headlines of ‘us defunds aid agency’ until Biden swooped in
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 23:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 11:57 |
|
|
Goatse James Bond posted:Let me rephrase: it doesn't really achieve the Congressional objective of sidelining unrwa (until they shape up or the report exonerates them to Congress' satisfaction blah blah whatever), because other agencies they're giving money to are working with unrwa anyway. It's not as good at helping Gazans as continuing to fund UNRWA, because you're adding unnecessary intermediate layers. If the policy goal is to discredit the UNRWA and reduce their role in Gaza, both things Israel has been wanting for a long time, then it seems like a fine solution to me. Even if the US is still indirectly giving them some money, it obviously sends a strong signal to everyone else if the US defunds them directly and Israel starts blocking their shipments. Biden is raging because he's staring down the barrel of losing the next election due to his support for genocide. He and his party might want to stop passing bills like this if they want to win. Goatse James Bond posted:The article isn't very long but there's language that makes me curious and I simply do not have the time to dig into it right now. It's specifically "aid convoys to the north of Gaza" being interdicted, not (presumably) all entry to all of Gaza. I can make a couple guesses as to what is being distinguished here but that'd just be my gut talking if I don't find a longer or more detailed piece. Possibly from, you know, unrwa. It's hard to tell exactly how much Israel intends to get in the UNRWA's way. They blocked the UNRWA chief from entering Gaza recently, for what it's worth. Esran fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Mar 24, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 23:06
|
|