(Thread IKs:
Captain Foo)
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I think the big sticking point in POE 2 is likely going to be the campaign, as much as I personally love what they're doing with it. Endgame I think it's probably easy enough to design rewarding content for zooming that doesn't require playing the more deliberate combat style. In my ideal world, there are good reasons to push the difficult content that requires active concentration and doesn't get trivialized with gear, but it's not mandatory (especially with trade, but ideally also SSF) and the same character that's good at that can also be good at or easily swapped to being good at low button blasting and zooming in the content targeted for that allowing for chiller less demanding sessions in between. There should be some systems encouragement to swap back and forth, but people with a strong preference should be able to focus entirely on one. I think things are mostly trending in that direction in POE 1, but I think they could and should push it a lot further. I personally think any sort of mapping from level 1 would suck, but maybe they should just allow it after beating the campaign once (ever, not per league) as long as it's a bit less efficient on average than playing through the campaign. Endgame it's easy to cater to different playstyles but a mandatory, difficult, long campaign is going to be a huge barrier and pain point for a lot of those playstyles. Regardless of how good the content is and how much it shakes up between leagues/runs.
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Mar 26, 2024 16:15
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| # ? May 20, 2024 19:09 |
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Campaign idea: have different bosses and quests gate off sections of the passive tree, so your path through the campaign becomes your build. And different builds mean different experiences.
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Mar 26, 2024 16:29
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Alright thread should I play ball lightning hiero or ruetoo's CoC DD? They're both templars so I guess I can keep changing my mind until lab.
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Mar 26, 2024 16:45
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Do you like spinning or balling
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Mar 26, 2024 16:48
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I think my main gripe about a mandatory, long campaign is that the current implementation feels entirely like a tutorial with minimal character progression. Despite getting passives and ascendancies throughout the campaign, I just never feel like I'm actually "building" the character I want until I get to maps because: - I'm usually not playing with the skill I want to be. This isn't always the case, but it's not at all uncommon for a build to be totally dysfunctional until a certain level/gear/gem requirement is met - Passive skill points just don't feel impactful while leveling - Ascendancies, while often providing meaningful character power in the campaign, are of course locked behind Lab which I hate. On the best league starts, Lab is a minor annoyance. But if I'm leveling a character that isn't as inherently tanky in the campaign, it feels super bad getting whelp'd by Izaro in the last room and losing 15+ minutes of game time for basically nothing - I'm not building any meaningful wealth as I play SC trade exclusively Tbh, after typing that out, I don't think the biggest issue is the campaign itself but rather the length of it. If it took me 4 or 5 hours instead of 10+ to get to maps, it'd feel less like a chore each league. And I don't think it'd really hurt much to shave that time off from GGG's perspective. The vast, VAST majority of my time each league is spent in endgame. Cutting out like 2.5% of the league by shortening the campaign doesn't seem like too much to ask. If PoE2 is all of the above, but longer, it's just gonna feel even worse. More compelling gameplay won't solve the problem cause I'm not really into this type of game for the gameplay. All just my opinion, of course
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Mar 26, 2024 16:50
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M. Night Skymall posted:Alright thread should I play ball lightning hiero or ruetoo's CoC DD? They're both templars so I guess I can keep changing my mind until lab. I would expect the CoC DD build to get rushed by a lot of folks early so if nothing else the gems will be expensive if you don't wanna self-farm. That said, the rest of the build looks fairly gear-agnostic so it's not too big of a hurdle. It also looks really good, I think this might finally be the build that gets DD nerfed next league. Otoh there will probably be a lot of cool Archmage Hiero flavors cropping up shortly after league start and I imagine most within that framework will be pretty solid.
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Mar 26, 2024 16:54
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People are going to flame out hard grinding merc lab for trans gems
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Mar 26, 2024 17:16
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euphronius posted:People are going to flame out hard grinding merc lab for trans gems Comment in the youtube video says 24 merc labs on average, oof. I guess I'll run regular lab and then decide if I want to run 30-40 extra labs and choose inquisitor or hierophant based on my answer.
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Mar 26, 2024 17:22
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Yea the allure of an actually good CoC league start build is gonna be too hard to pass up for a lot of folks. Wouldn't be surprised to see the Lancing Steel and DD trans gems be multiple divines the first few days. For sure opens up the opportunity to make some hay if you can get a competent lab farmer up and running early, though.
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Mar 26, 2024 17:32
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imo just be one of the people who gets good rng. failing that hopefully some of your misses are valuable
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Mar 26, 2024 17:54
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I wonder if they have a backup plan for what happens if poe2 reaches beta and people hate it and want it to be more like poe1, or if they're all in and will have to scramble to figure out how to unfuck it if that happens.
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Mar 26, 2024 17:59
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Arma brand should be fine through white maps if you want to delay the swap. Farming merc lab isn't the worse thing though, should be able to farm up a nestegg of currency and get some early gem qual. Also I don't think DD of Chaining is required, I saw Lilly test it with VD and it was clearly doing less damage but looked usable. LS of spraying is 100% required though.
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Mar 26, 2024 17:59
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Dr Kool-AIDS posted:I wonder if they have a backup plan for what happens if poe2 reaches beta and people hate it and want it to be more like poe1, or if they're all in and will have to scramble to figure out how to unfuck it if that happens. I think they'll push through The Vision for quite a while, kind of like ArchNem. Especially as they'll probably be of the "well we just released it, and streamers are still playing it lots" mindset which will keep them from making large changes for a while. Plus, the annoyance of a grindy campaign won't really take root until a few leagues for a large part of the playerbase. Of course there's always the chance that it won't be as bad as we think it will be. Some of the streamers even said that by act 2 they were one-shotting packs and feeling a little zoomy. It's sounding like some of the worse experiences were people who just got lovely drops (or no drops), which they've said they're looking to adjust (with quest rewards, more uncut gems, etc).
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Mar 26, 2024 18:02
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Mathil was getting zoomy at the end but it’s def a lot of press 7 buttons and dodge 3 times to kill one pack
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Mar 26, 2024 18:04
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Deciding between Toxic Rain Ballista or Hexblast Mines. Luckily, I'm too stupid and new to understand why they're bad on console. They both seem pretty straightforward, leveling-wise and have pretty easy to follow Maxroll guides. Haven't played in a couple of days because I got caught up in Bloodborne, as you do. Still hoping to finish the campaign and see a little of the current Atlas system before it becomes the "old" system.
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Mar 26, 2024 18:05
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Paying2Lurk posted:Deciding between Toxic Rain Ballista or Hexblast Mines. Luckily, I'm too stupid and new to understand why they're bad on console. They both seem pretty straightforward, leveling-wise and have pretty easy to follow Maxroll guides. The normal way to detonate mines before was to bind left click to detonate mines, which you can't do on a console. They removed the ability to bind things to left click and added a mastery to detonate mines when you move, so now they're the same on console. Between those two as a new player I'd go TR Ballista though, it's pretty smooth.
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Mar 26, 2024 18:10
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euphronius posted:Mathil was getting zoomy at the end but it’s def a lot of press 7 buttons and dodge 3 times to kill one pack So for Mathil, half asleep, for most of us, snorting cocaine to keep up.
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Mar 26, 2024 18:46
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Dr Kool-AIDS posted:I wonder if they have a backup plan for what happens if poe2 reaches beta and people hate it and want it to be more like poe1, or if they're all in and will have to scramble to figure out how to unfuck it if that happens. keep doing poe1 leagues but be very spiteful about it
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Mar 26, 2024 18:48
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I think they're really trying to flatten the baseline power curve so they can gradually build it up again. Not sure if they've said this explicitly.
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Mar 26, 2024 18:48
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xZAOx posted:So for Mathil, half asleep, for most of us, snorting cocaine to keep up. That was kind of my biggest takeaway from the event. Streamers were basically getting through, even if it was a pain at times for some, but these are people who are actually professional gamers. It's fun to laugh at the games journalists who couldn't progress, but realistically they're probably more representative of a lot of players than big name streamers are. Even Mathil said he thought it was overtuned, presumably not because he thought it was too hard for him personally, but just realizing a lot of other people don't have the skill or patience for what ggg is asking from them so far.
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Mar 26, 2024 18:54
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M. Night Skymall posted:They removed the ability to bind things to left click Oh man, I knew this for detonate mines but didn't realize it was across-the-board. Farewell my beautiful 3.22 vortex ignite elementalist, you were too good for this world (in multiple ways).
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Mar 26, 2024 18:58
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Traitorous Leopard posted:I think my main gripe about a mandatory, long campaign is that the current implementation feels entirely like a tutorial with minimal character progression. Despite getting passives and ascendancies throughout the campaign, I just never feel like I'm actually "building" the character I want until I get to maps because: theproblem with the campaign is it isnt fun. d2 campaign is fun. gd campaign is fun. even LEs is p enjoyable. the reason maps work for poe is because you get to pick a layout you enjoy but teh unspoken part of that is that a lot of the layouts in the game are really bad and you have to go through every single one of them during the campaign, often an even worse version of them, and theres like 50 boss fights that each have a 5 hour long intro and outro animation and have slightly too much hp and damage. its like if d2 was 90% arcane sanctuary with duriel waiting at the end. the length just makes it worse and yeah lab is just absolute misery, axing them alone would make a huge difference.
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Mar 26, 2024 18:59
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Traitorous Leopard posted:- I'm usually not playing with the skill I want to be. This isn't always the case, but it's not at all uncommon for a build to be totally dysfunctional until a certain level/gear/gem requirement is met also this is part of why ppl say the campaign is too hard/overtuned/whatever you want to call it. its one thing in a game when ur skill just comes later in levels, but you can meet level reqs for skills and still not be able to use it in campaign way way way too often and it means that youre probably playing the same very small handful of skills that are strong early over and over and over and over every single league to level. and most of those skills are not fun to use which makes it even worse lol
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Mar 26, 2024 19:05
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Stux posted:theproblem with the campaign is it isnt fun. d2 campaign is fun. gd campaign is fun. even LEs is p enjoyable. the reason maps work for poe is because you get to pick a layout you enjoy but teh unspoken part of that is that a lot of the layouts in the game are really bad and you have to go through every single one of them during the campaign, often an even worse version of them, and theres like 50 boss fights that each have a 5 hour long intro and outro animation and have slightly too much hp and damage. its like if d2 was 90% arcane sanctuary with duriel waiting at the end. the length just makes it worse it's not even unspoken, ggg has said that you need the bad layouts to fully appreciate the fun layouts. personally i'm not so sure about that one Stux posted:also this is part of why ppl say the campaign is too hard/overtuned/whatever you want to call it. its one thing in a game when ur skill just comes later in levels, but you can meet level reqs for skills and still not be able to use it in campaign way way way too often and it means that youre probably playing the same very small handful of skills that are strong early over and over and over and over every single league to level. and most of those skills are not fun to use which makes it even worse lol eh there's way, way, way tf more viable ways to get through the campaign quickly than either the leveling meta or popular perception of early game skill power reflects like go look at the absolute jank poo poo https://www.youtube.com/@Balaar/ is getting through act 10 in 3:20 with. I'm no balaar and I can get most skills that aren't like f tier mechanically through the story very quickly with a moderate amount of leveling gear or pretty quickly ssf. the actual balance of skills in poe, particularly early game is a lot tighter than the community thinks. the bigger issue is that most people have no idea how (and for that matter, apparently barely even try?) to put together leveling setups or how to actually scale archetypes that they aren't already familiar with. like there's huge numbers of uniques with a level 20 (and a bunch with even lower) level reqs that do wild things to leveling and I'd be surprised if most people can even name 5-10 sub level 25 uniques. some of this is probably the game communicating some things poorly, but a lot of it isn't: most people struggling with bow or melee leveling apparently are unaware that they need to be constantly looking for weapon upgrades which is such an obvious thing that i struggle to even fault ggg for that Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Mar 26, 2024 |
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Mar 26, 2024 19:07
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What if instead we made the campaign exclusively lab so we got to hear more Izaro voice lines.
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Mar 26, 2024 19:08
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Setec_Astronomy posted:Oh man, I knew this for detonate mines but didn't realize it was across-the-board. Farewell my beautiful 3.22 vortex ignite elementalist, you were too good for this world (in multiple ways). They also made vortex non-instant last league
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Mar 26, 2024 19:09
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Stux posted:theproblem with the campaign is it isnt fun. d2 campaign is fun. gd campaign is fun. even LEs is p enjoyable. I uninstalled Last Epoch because by the time I got to the coral temple the zones had ballooned to absurd degrees - far larger than any zone I could ever recall in Path of Exile. I'm sure it's not too bad if you know what you're doing and where you're going, but by the third zone of endless, sprawling maze I felt insulted.
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Mar 26, 2024 19:12
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Tarnop posted:They also made vortex non-instant last league Nothing beautiful can last On a bright note, I maybe have 3 new players joining me this league. It's like I've been into meth for a decade and finally all my friends are getting into meth too
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Mar 26, 2024 19:15
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Kurash posted:I uninstalled Last Epoch because by the time I got to the coral temple the zones had ballooned to absurd degrees - far larger than any zone I could ever recall in Path of Exile. I'm sure it's not too bad if you know what you're doing and where you're going, but by the third zone of endless, sprawling maze I felt insulted. its true le does love big rear end maps with no monster density lol but ive never hit a point in the campaign perosnally where ive just been fed up. that happens roughly 2 minutes into doing monoliths instead 
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Mar 26, 2024 19:17
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late in LE's campaign it has really good density and tbh i think that's why i always seem to finish LE's campaign
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Mar 26, 2024 19:19
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yeah i guess it does actually... makes it more confusing why so many of the monolith maps have packs that are like 3 enemies just dotted around lol
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Mar 26, 2024 19:22
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Stux posted:its true le does love big rear end maps with no monster density lol but ive never hit a point in the campaign perosnally where ive just been fed up. that happens roughly 2 minutes into doing monoliths instead I've tried to build a second character to see if my gripes with LE were with my starter build, how goddamn long it seems to take to build up Corruption to make things interesting or the game as a whole. Even with the skip guide I've only been able to do maybe 4 zones at most in a sitting before quitting to do something else, so I think it's that last one. Setec_Astronomy posted:Nothing beautiful can last E-mail support about gifting them MTX, because every good dealer knows that the first hit is free 
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Mar 26, 2024 19:22
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I’m fine with a campaign in general but a 25-30 hour slog campaign is not going to put the game out on its best footing I think
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Mar 26, 2024 19:22
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Herstory Begins Now posted:like there's huge numbers of uniques with a level 20 (and a bunch with even lower) level reqs that do wild things to leveling and I'd be surprised if most people can even name 5-10 sub level 25 uniques. some of this is probably the game communicating some things poorly, but a lot of it isn't: most people struggling with bow or melee leveling apparently are unaware that they need to be constantly looking for weapon upgrades which is such an obvious thing that i struggle to even fault ggg for that I don't know that those uniques really matter, do they? You're not going to have those (at least, not reliably) on league start. So people are going to stick to tried and true skills to get up to their Real Build. PoE, for most, involves a lot planning. Can't plan for uniques you don't know that you'll have. Then for second+ characters, the question is moot. Campaign is just a chore to get to your build, so go with a OWN build like everyone else with cheap uniques to get to the fun part.
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Mar 26, 2024 19:27
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Herstory Begins Now posted:
I'm for sure guilty of this. I don't really follow guides anymore, so I'm sure most of my campaign is done with sub-optimal links/gear/passives, but I just don't care enough to spend the time to try and streamline this for all my builds when I'm just trying to get to the meat of the game as fast as possible (counterintuitive, I know lol). And due to the lack of available skills, itemization, and passives while leveling, the campaign will always necessarily feel more constrained than endgame in this regard. I'm not gonna win any arguments against a core design philosophy of RPGs lol. This ofc is usually only true of my first character each league. I typically don't consider an alt until I've got a OWN setup for the second run through. This is why I'm thinking there's no real way to make the campaign fun, for me at least. The only clean solution would be to double xp gain and cut the acts in half and there's no way GGG is gonna do that lol
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Mar 26, 2024 19:30
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Here is how I rationalize it: maps from 1 would be just as boring to you Unless you are saying start alts at level 75
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Mar 26, 2024 19:31
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euphronius posted:Here is how I rationalize it: maps from 1 would be just as boring to you Hard disagree, personally. The campaign feels like such a chore to me, in part, because I know I have a lot of map progress to do. The campaign progression means nothing to me. Being able to be clearing the atlas while leveling up would be great. It still definitely suffers from "can't work on my real build until later" though.
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Mar 26, 2024 19:35
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xZAOx posted:I don't know that those uniques really matter, do they? You're not going to have those (at least, not reliably) on league start. So people are going to stick to tried and true skills to get up to their Real Build. PoE, for most, involves a lot planning. Can't plan for uniques you don't know that you'll have. click on that link to balaar's channel and look at the absolutely ridiculously not even offmeta but like anti-meta stuff he's knocking out 3:25 act 10 ssf runs with. people run the same poo poo over and over because they want to or are too lazy to learn or figure out something new, not because there's an actual lack of viable options i mention uniques becuase after the first character there's no reason anyone should be running the story with a set up that struggles in the acts Traitorous Leopard posted:I'm for sure guilty of this. I don't really follow guides anymore, so I'm sure most of my campaign is done with sub-optimal links/gear/passives, but I just don't care enough to spend the time to try and streamline this for all my builds when I'm just trying to get to the meat of the game as fast as possible (counterintuitive, I know lol). And due to the lack of available skills, itemization, and passives while leveling, the campaign will always necessarily feel more constrained than endgame in this regard. I'm not gonna win any arguments against a core design philosophy of RPGs lol. This ofc is usually only true of my first character each league. I typically don't consider an alt until I've got a OWN setup for the second run through. there are a ton of options beyond OWN. personally I just have a tab for leveling uniques and dump all the relevant stuff in there and then just grab a set of whatever seems interesting when i need to level a character. similar to own leveling, any kind of geared leveling might as well be cutting the campaign in half or more Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Mar 26, 2024 |
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Mar 26, 2024 19:36
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They would never let you clear the atlas from level 1 . It would be some pre atlas map thing.
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Mar 26, 2024 19:37
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Mar 26, 2024 19:40
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